Civil liberties advocates consider the procedure barbaric

[MalahatTwo7]

Tell that to the parents of the next child who is sexually assualted. :mad:

Kaine Vetoes Castration Bill. Bill Would Have Dealt With Violent Sex Offenders

POSTED: 9:17 am EDT April 11, 2007

RICHMOND, Va. -- Gov. Tim Kaine has vetoed a bill that would have required state agencies to study the feasibility of castrating violent sex offenders instead of confining them.

Kaine said he vetoed the bill Tuesday because he thinks health professionals rather than lawmakers should decide how to treat sex offenders.

Sen. Emmett Hanger Jr.'s bill called on the attorney general's office and the state Department of Mental Health to explore the use of physical castration for sex offenders. It was overwhelmingly approved by the House and Senate.

After it was approved, Kaine proposed an amendment that would strike all references to castration. Instead, the bill would have had the state study a full range of options to help sex offenders gain release from confinement without posing a threat to the public.

The House rejected Kaine's amendment.

Some psychiatric experts question the effectiveness of castration and many civil liberties advocates consider the procedure barbaric.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press.

[CaptOldTimer]

Well what you expect from this liberal??

He will never do the right thing for the citizens. He didn’t when he was the Mayor of Richmond. He was never for the workers and was instrumental in keeping the raises down and the reductions in a lot of departments.

I still can’t believe that folks voted for this guy. I didn't!!! Had enough of his mayorship!

Oh well, we are stuck with him until the next Governor election. Maybe he will go back with Queen Elizabeth when she visits next month for the 400th anniversary of the founding of Jamestown! It would be any lost to us. They can have him!
:rolleyes:

[baileydonk]

Tell that to the parents of the next child who is sexually assualted. :mad:


To be frank - if someone wants to hurt a child that way, if his penis doesn't work he'll just use something else. Castration isn't a fix.

That said, the bill was to "explore" or "study" the issue of castration... so I don't understand the thought process behind vetoing it. Researching the issue doesn't mean they are going to start lopping anything off, and if it turns out I'm wrong about what I said in my first paragraph, well, then I'd be glad someone looked into it!

[HotTrotter]

Just another dumbass liberal. Let's close our eyes and minds and do the goody two shoes thing. These pour sex offenders..It isn't their fault (sarcasm intended). What does it hurt to just look atit and research the possibility, which is what the nutr case came back and said they should do. :mad:

[Dalmatian190]

Baileydonk, sure you know what Castration is?

I have no problem with it -- surgical or chemical, for repeat offenders. It's a simple medical procedure, performed hundreds of thousands of times a year on pets and livestock for the same reason, to reduce or eliminate sexual impulses.

[malana1]

I'm not an expert but I have allways heard that rape is about violence and not a crime about sex.

[mikie333]

I'm not an expert but I have allways heard that rape is about violence and not a crime about sex.

^ true. personally speaking, I think that castration is indeed "barbaric"

[Catch22]

^ true. personally speaking, I think that castration is indeed "barbaric"

I won't argue there. However, let the punishment fit the crime! I consider child molestation and rape barbaric.

[ThNozzleman]

Just another dumbass liberal. Let's close our eyes and minds and do the goody two shoes thing. These pour sex offenders..It isn't their fault (sarcasm intended). What does it hurt to just look atit and research the possibility, which is what the nutr case came back and said they should do.
What next? Cutting the hands off thieves? Scarlet "A's" branded into adulterers faces?
Oh, wait; you're the one who advocated gunning down women and children. Aren't you late for your shock therapy in the basement of the state hospital? :rolleyes:

[HotTrotter]

What next? Cutting the hands off thieves? Scarlet "A's" branded into adulterers faces?
Oh, wait; you're the one who advocated gunning down women and children. Aren't you late for your shock therapy in the basement of the state hospital? :rolleyes:

Ah yes, I get it. Slap them on the hand and tell them not to do it again :eek:

[Dalmatian190]

What next? Cutting the hands off thieves? Scarlet "A's" branded into adulterers faces?

Um, again, I have to ask if someone understands what "castration" is.

What's next? Requiring people with serious pyschiatric disorders stay on medication as part of probation/parole? Requiring people with drug resistant, highly communicable diseases keep themselves quarantined?

With any issues like this we need to strike a balance between the fears of science fiction writers and personal liberties.

One reason we will not solve the street people problem in America is we stopped locking up those who don't harm others around 1970s. They may be mentally ill, and while that may have biological foundations...as long as they're not harming others they're free to make decisions -- even it's repeated bad decisions about not following the bare minimum rules and expectations.

When they hurt others, then Government can step in and mandate treatment regimes for the underlying pyschiatric issues.

And "hurt others" and the continuing threat to do so is the key to the decision on deprevation of life or liberty we should be following.

Castration is not meant as a brand -- like cutting off a hand, or a scarlet A* branded on the breast.

Nor is it an act of retribution. It may be eugenics, but that's a side effect rather than goal.

It is, at least for some, a medical treatment to a biologically based illness. It doesn't excuse someone from the obligation to exercise free will to control impulses; but it can offer an explanation and a course of treatment to work along with punishment and therapy.

This is from Michael Ross:

...I finally received approval for my medication - first weekly injections of Depo-Provera, and now monthly injections of Depo-Lupron that the monster in my mind started to lose its power and control over me and I was finally able to begin to see what it really was; who I really was; and what the difference was between that monster and myself.
...
You are equally unable to understand the amazing and radical transformation that I have undergone since I started to receive my medication in prison. My medication is nothing less than a miracle to me - a blessing sent by God. And I am extremely grateful to all those individuals who fought on my behalf to help me get approval for my medication. Chemical castration is a very controversial subject right now and most people don't really understand what it actually does. Personally, I don't know if it can help every sex offender, but, without a doubt, it has helped me.

I have learned much about myself since receiving my medication. And I can see things much more clearly now. For years my mind was clouded. It was cluttered with the self-centered thoughts generated by my sickness. After I started to receive my medication my mind began to clear. I began to see things as they really were. Previously my world was viewed through the colored glasses of my mental illness. Put once on my medication the fog began to dissipate and light began to illuminate the dark shadows of my mind-. It was, and still is very difficult. For I began to be aware of many disturbing things that brought me great anguish and despair.


Michael Ross was a serial rapist/murderer from my town, who left a crime trail known to have touched Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, and Ohio. Very smart, albeit frightingly disturbed, person. He was the first person executed in 45 years by Connecticut.

One of his murder victims lived across the street from my house and her parents just moved out this past fall. Another victim's body was found in the corn field I used to go shooting in as a kid. He was a classmate of my sister's in school, and I rode to many fires with his father as the pump operator -- there's no doubt in this case it was an issue of nature and not nurture. It's also the closest I hope I have to come to evil.

So I'm going to defer to an expert on the issue -- like he said, may not help all but it certainly can help some.

And we, as society, shouldn't not be squeamish over it. It's a medical treatment (drugs) or procedure (surgery) that should be applied when medically appropriate to treat an underlying illness that threatens the health and safety of other individuals.

Matt
--------------------------
*As an aside, today's Scarlet Letter syndrome of using planning & zoning to drive sex offenders out of communities by saying they can't live within so many feet of where children or the elderly congregate is reprehensible -- although I suppose many of today's politicians are young enough they never read Hawthorne in High School. If you don't feel safe, then it's an issue to address with the penal and parole systems -- not at planning and zoning.

[ThNozzleman]

Ah yes, I get it. Slap them on the hand and tell them not to do it again
Um..no. They go to prison. Of course, years in prison must not be that tough of a sentence to someone who likes to shoot children for seeking a better life. And I keep asking you how that math is coming...but you never answer. You must still be struggling with it. Pathetic, isn't it?

[MalahatTwo7]

Bailey, I know what you are thinking because your thoughts ran with my original comment too. Which of course caused a conflict, because in part you are correct. But I agree with castration, only because Euthenasia (sp?? too tired to check myself LOL) is too kind.

As for the cutting of hands etc.... there is such a thing as carrying a thought too far. :cool:

[baileydonk]

Baileydonk, sure you know what Castration is?

I have no problem with it -- surgical or chemical, for repeat offenders. It's a simple medical procedure, performed hundreds of thousands of times a year on pets and livestock for the same reason, to reduce or eliminate sexual impulses.

In my understanding, rape and child molestation are not so much crimes of unbridled sexual impulses as they are of power, anger, manipulation, etc - which will still be present (or arguably more so) in a man after castration. Castration is not barbaric - yes, all my male animals have been castrated early on and it did them no harm. But the pet/livestock analogy doesn't really fly for me when it gets applied to the situation discussed in this thread... For one thing, castrating a dog late in life often does not change its "male" behaviors, just its ability to get the deed done - and humans, as tool users, don't need a working willy to sexually hurt someone. If we castrated most of our male children early on, would they wander less, be less agressive, and would we have less of a teen pregnancy problem? Well, definitely on the last one and perhaps on the others. But obviously that's not what we're talking about here. Going back to dogs, when you've got an adult one that's "gone bad", that's started attacking people, is castration going to make it a good dog? My point is not that castration is some cruel horror, just that I don't see it as a solution.

[johnny46]

just ****ing shoot them.

[johnny46]

Um..no. They go to prison. Of course, years in prison must not be that tough of a sentence to someone who likes to shoot children for seeking a better life. And I keep asking you how that math is coming...but you never answer. You must still be struggling with it. Pathetic, isn't it?

They go to prison for short terms, if at all. When they get out they have to register as sex offenders, which apparently has the magical ability to keep them from offending again, in spite of the two dead kids I can think of that made national news who were victims of convicted and registered sex offenders.

Fact is, both liberals, conservatives, democrats and republicans are guilty of doing what amounts to nothing. That would mean us, because we are at certain levels a democratic society, which means we have collective responsibility.

I would rather let a car thief or liquor store robber out of prison than a child molestor. The first and second target adults, who can defend themselves if they'll bother and both those crimes are tied, at least indirectly, to survival. There is no situation barring something contrived, that requires one to sexually assault a child or die.

Our country (that would be us) does not consider children important enough to defend. We don't have the balls to lock child predators up for life, meaning until the offender is dead. The current legal definitions of life in prison were written by idiots. Our judges are idiots, our lawyers are idiots, our government in the legal area is peopled with weaklings and morons. There is a judge who kept an offender out of prison because he was too small. Moron. More concerned about a damned criminal than a child. I cannot put into words the disgust I feel for anyone unwilling to put a predator away until he is dead.

[HotTrotter]

Um..no. They go to prison. Of course, years in prison must not be that tough of a sentence to someone who likes to shoot children for seeking a better life. And I keep asking you how that math is coming...but you never answer. You must still be struggling with it. Pathetic, isn't it?

What math is that? Are you talking about the amount of tax on a gallon of gas?
http://www.api.org/policy/tax/stateexcise/upload/GAS_TAX_MAP_MARCH2007_2A025.pd f

These chart just gives the gasoline tax, it doesn't include other taxes like sales tax. Which around here ia an additional 8.25%. That acounts for another 25 cents in taxes. Takes us to 85 cents out of $2.50 just at the pump. Don't forget, the consumer also pays the corporate tax as well, which inlcudes income, excise, fuel, etc. Add it all up and see where you end up.

[HotTrotter]

They go to prison for short terms, if at all. When they get out they have to register as sex offenders, which apparently has the magical ability to keep them from offending again, in spite of the two dead kids I can think of that made national news who were victims of convicted and registered sex offenders.

Fact is, both liberals, conservatives, democrats and republicans are guilty of doing what amounts to nothing. That would mean us, because we are at certain levels a democratic society, which means we have collective responsibility.

I would rather let a car thief or liquor store robber out of prison than a child molestor. The first and second target adults, who can defend themselves if they'll bother and both those crimes are tied, at least indirectly, to survival. There is no situation barring something contrived, that requires one to sexually assault a child or die.

Our country (that would be us) does not consider children important enough to defend. We don't have the balls to lock child predators up for life, meaning until the offender is dead. The current legal definitions of life in prison were written by idiots. Our judges are idiots, our lawyers are idiots, our government in the legal area is peopled with weaklings and morons. There is a judge who kept an offender out of prison because he was too small. Moron. More concerned about a damned criminal than a child. I cannot put into words the disgust I feel for anyone unwilling to put a predator away until he is dead.

Read an article the other day that basically said the registries and limiting where these people can live isn't working. Many end up homeless becuase they can't find a place to live. Now we have no idea where they are.

[pkfd7505]

Um..no. They go to prison.

I had the experience of working closely with sex offenders for some time, I was a corrections officer at the largest sex offender prison in Missouri. 2700 inmates, %80 were sex offenders, over %60 of those were repeat offenders.
Prison is no punishment to these animals Noz, it's a learning vacation. I use the word animals because that is what a large majority of them are, no remorse, no care and really no intention of changing their lifestyle. You loose 3 rights when you go to prison, 3 whole f***ing rights. The right to vote, the right to hold public office and the right to own firearms. That sure is showing those rapists ain't it Noz? The inmates have more rights in prison then corrections officers do, all due to sympathetic, civil rights minded idiots who seem to think we can "help" these creatures. What about helping the victims Noz, I didn't hear one damn comment from you about the victims? Guess they don't matter huh?


Spend some time around them, get to know what they are all about. Trust me, they are all too willing to share the truth with you when they know there is not a damn thing you can do about it. Then come here and try to defend their "civil" liberties.