SCBA Outside

[Pancho]

Are you supposed to wear an SCBA when you're outside working on a structure fire or when you are on the roof? I notice many guys don't. I was working a structure fire the other night on the roof after most of the fire was out, just remnants of embers etc. I got into the thick of some smoke without a mask and my eyes burned like crap and I could barely breath. Is this normal?
Stay safe

[WaterbryVTfire]

Yes, an air pack should be worn at all times when working in or around a still burning or smoldering structure. Current tests being done show extremely high levels of CO (carbon monoxide) during over haul operations.

[Bones42]

Yes, it's normal for smoke to burn your eyes and cause some trouble breathing. :D

That being said...try to stay out of smoke when you are not on air with your SCBA. We do not require roof guys to have SCBA's on nor do we require everyone outside the fire to be wearing one either. If conditions warrant their use, then go right ahead and use it.

PS - get ready for many answers on both sides and probably some name calling on this thread. ;)

[OlieCan]

Outside operations I think depends on where you are, or what you're doing.

On the roof, I would say always wear it. The roof goes out and you fall in and are trapped or something, you won't be able to put it on, and then, you're in bad shape. Considering how long roof operations take (or should take) theres no reason to not wear it while on the roof. You'll have plenty of air.

[Pancho]

Wow, quick replies! This was beginning overhaul. We were looking for burning embers. On the back side of the house there was still some stuff burning. It was when I went near to the back that I the smoke got a little thicker and I noticed all that crap (burning eyes, runny nose, coughing). I didn't stay in it for long and got out of it so I could breathe. There were many guys who were even interior without scba etc, right after the fire was out. I don't know I worry about the plastics, co, a little bit, perhaps it's just me. Is that something to be worried about in my position on the roof?
Thanks.

[XRaysJL]

When ever you are in a IDLH inviroment you should have your SCBA on. This can range from a car/truck fire, structural fire, and even propane to name a few.

[Pancho]

Ok. So in the future I will wear it for that stuff. Is this one exposure something to worry about?

[OlieCan]

I agree with above.

It should almost always be on if there is anything still buring, or smoldering, doing overhaul, or anywhere near the fire. There are so many chemicals in the air, that its foolish not to. You might not look as "Tough" by wearing it, but you will definatly look more Smart.

[verno55]

I feel it is better to be safe than sorry!!! So I always wear one no matter what. If your not in smoke go off air but keep your mask on.In a fire you never know what might be waiting around the corner! STAY SAFE

[FFTrainer]

It really depends on the situation in my book but on the roof I like to see it on and the reason is 2 fold. 1. there is no better eye protection while using a saw then your scba facepiece and 2. its too late to put it on after you fall through the roof into the IDLH environment below. I know this is very basic knowledge, but just remember how much an scba changes your center of gravity. Its all the more important on a pitched roof.

[callaway75]

I know what we're supposed to do, but that's not always the case. I usually let the conditions dictate whether or not I will mask up. I'm an engine man, so if I go interior for attack, I mask up when I get some smoke. For overhaul, not always, depends on conditions. If we are forced to operate exterior, I usually won't, but I at least try to stay upwind. Sometimes I get assigned to the truck, so if I go the roof, it depends if I will mask up or not. I will when cutting a hole, or if it's pretty shi##y. Most time I won't though, it all depends on the particular job.

[WaterbryVTfire]

Ok. So in the future I will wear it for that stuff. Is this one exposure something to worry about?

You should be okay with just one exposure. If you expereince any breathing difficulties, see your doctor, and report it to your Chief.

[Pancho]

Ok, thanks for all of the replies. I think next time I'll just pack out.

[plisken]

WEAR IT. you know the smoke is always better for you outside the house than inside it. Smoke contains CO Cyanide and about a thousand other chemicals that don't play well with your internal organs. If you want to live 20 years past your retirement wear your SCBA. On a roof, overhaul All the time. If you go through the roof, I am sure you will be glad you had air on. SCBA are getting lighter all the time so unless your using steel bottles the weight won't be a factor as for your center of gravity use a chain saw. To many guys are getting rides in gut buckets due to smoke inilation Why? if you meter the space for CO , O2 and are not running a gas fan and the PPM is not alarming or O2 not alarming then drop the pack, but until you have covered your bases keep it on. It's your LUNGS and your life, you don't have to be cool and eat smoke. I enjoy going home to my kids when my shift is done, It works keeping insulation out of the lungs to when you pull ceiling. I'm not saying if your defencive sitting on the hose peeeeing, be on air, I am saying when you are in the atmosphere of the fire during and after be on air and don't let the old salts talk you out of it. They are the ones that retire than keel over a couple years later no offence to the salts. My Department requires lung tests every 2 years for Hazmat tech, if you fail you don't get to come play at work any more, and the pay checks arn't as big so if you love what you do, use the air.

[BCLepore]

You wrote:
I got into the thick of some smoke without a mask and my eyes burned like crap and I could barely breath. Is this normal?

Yes, the smoke is normal. Is breathing it normal? No. Anytime your eyes hurt, or your are coughing from the smoke you are being exposed to the particles of combustion. Over the course of a career these will build up in your system and you will regret it.

The cancer rate among firefighters is tremendously higher than that of the general public. In my opinion it is from exactly what you desribed; not wearing your breathing apparatus. It's important to note that the smouldering phases of the fire is the time when we all take off our BA's. Unfortunately this is the time of the fire when most of the toxic gasses are being emitted.

WEAR YOUR BA!

Paul Lepore
Battalion Chief
www.aspiringfirefighters.com

[Peach1303]

The opinions that everyone has on this subject is pretty straight forward when they say to wear it. If you dont wear it, then it is a risk.... but on the flip side it is a risk when you do use it. And i dont mean to start up a huge debate but it depends on the situation. I definitely use my SCBA when needed. I personally won't use it when i dont have too, i.e. on the roof with light to moderate smoke, pulling siding and soffit, etc... I know each region has their own way of doing things and thats just how it is. But, I try and to save all the air I possibly can. I'd rather hold my nomex hood over my nose and mouth to try and save every breath of fresh air in my SCBA in case I become entrapped or the worst possible case scenario happens. Out in the midwest we just do things a little different i suppose. As for the cancer thing goes, yeah we do have higher rates among us but I think that everyone who got into this career knows the possible outcomes. Whatever it comes down to, you still have one of two options....either wear it or don't. If your department doesn't enforce it, then that decision lies on your shoulders. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Pancho]

Yea, I understand that now. I was mainly checking to see if it was going to be a problem for me since it was the first time it had happened. I will wear it from now on though for sure. My main question was, will it hurt me that bad if it only happens that once? Doesn't it flush out of your system with time?
Thanks for all the replies and stay safe.
Tim

[BCLepore]

Tim,
No, it will not have a long lasting effect on you. Everything I referred to has a cumulative effect (over a period of time). Stay safe,

[emtJon]

Yes, an air pack should be worn at all times when working in or around a still burning or smoldering structure. Current tests being done show extremely high levels of CO (carbon monoxide) during over haul operations.

CO is not the only major concern anymore--more and more reports are coming in, including a recent incident near me in Providence, RI, of cyanide poinsoning. Many of the products that are burning in homes and other buildings these days give off hig levels of cyanide gas when they burn, and even after the fire is out and they are "just smoldering." There are far too many things on the fireground that can hurt us. The best idea I have heard recently is if there is a fire, and you are on the fireground--whether outside, inside, above, or whatever--you WILL be on air. There is never a safe time or place around a fire!

[fireslayer1237]

my idea is if you even ponder whether you should mask up then you should be. emtjon is right. CO is no longer the major issue, yes it is an issue nut cyanide is a major problem especially with all the synthetics these days. they are also showing that cyanide may be the cause of some cardiac arrests that are occuring at fires or afterwards. Stay safe gentleman

[Pancho]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I'll just pack out from here on.
Any recommendations on toys I should get? All I have is the essentials right now and I want to get some stuff; flashlight, wedges, helmet band, etc.
Any suggestions on what to get and where to get it?
Thanks and be safe,
Tim

[fireslayer1237]

there are alot of posts out about what guys carry on them if you do a little investigating around here. my idea of the essentials is other than your ppe would be a reliable flashlight, atleast one spanner 2 preferably, and 2 hose straps.

This is what i carry

L coat pocket
vice grips
leather work gloves

R coat pocket
window punch
1 1/2" gasket
2 1/2" gasket
leather work gloves
pump chart cheat sheet
calculator (double check my equations if diff. lays)

R chest
Right angled flash light

L pant pocket
3 hose straps (there light and you can never have too many)
flash light

R pant pocket
2 spanners
wire dikes
nails
wedge
multi head screw driver
alan wrenches
leather man

Helmet
garrity light
wedge

also in my mask bag i have extra structure gloves and a hood that way if you loose your primary you can still play and also i hate wet gloves. Hope this helps.