Hey WalMart haters

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Did you read this? If WalMart tried this, there would be congressional hearings.
Mar 28, 10:28 AM EDT


Circuit City to Cut More Than 3,500 Jobs

By ZINIE CHEN SAMPSON
Associated Press Writer

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Circuit City Stores Inc. said Wednesday it plans to cut costs by laying off about 3,400 store workers and hiring lower-paid employees to replace them, and by trimming about 130 corporate jobs.

Its shares rose 3 percent in morning trading.

Circuit City, the nation's No. 2 consumer electronics retailer behind Best Buy Co. Inc., the store workers being laid off were earning "well above the market-based salary range for their role." They will be replaced with employees who will be paid at the current market range, the company said in a news release.

"We are taking a number of aggressive actions to improve our cost and expense structure, which will better position us for improved and sustainable returns in today's marketplace," Philip J. Schoonover, Circuit City's chief executive, said in a statement.

The Richmond-based company also plans to outsource its information-technology infrastructure operations to International Business Machines Corp., a move that is expected to cut IT expenses by more than 16 percent. About 50 of Circuit City's IT workers will move to jobs with IBM and remain on the Circuit City contract. The other 80 corporate positions will be cut.

The changes follow the company's announcement this winter of planned cost-cutting measures and management moves to improve sales and cut expenses.

In February, Circuit City terminated its lease on a previously closed distribution center in Columbus, Ohio, at a loss of $4.8 million, but the move is expected to cut costs associated with the lease by about $6 million. It also finished a previously announced closing of a Louisville, Ky., distribution center that was used primarily for store fixtures and signs.

In Circuit City's international operations, the company has hired Goldman Sachs to advise the company on strategic options for its InterTAN Inc. unit, which could include selling the business.

Circuit City closed about 55 stores in Canada in February as previously announced, and expects to close about 10 more stores in the first half of fiscal 2008.

Its shares rose 59 cents to $19.47 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

[MalahatTwo7]

Maybe I am truly out to lunch, but isnt that sort of thing illegal? To fire someone and then fill his/her position with a lower wage person is illegal, isn't it?

[doughesson]

Happens all the time.Work your way to the top of the payscale and then let go so they can hire a lower paid employee to save costs.
Never mind that you know what widget goes into which gaunculator and the customers are happy with how fast you take care of them.
They want a happy bottom line instead of happy employees.

[mcaldwell]

Maybe I am truly out to lunch, but isnt that sort of thing illegal? To fire someone and then fill his/her position with a lower wage person is illegal, isn't it?


It is in Canada, and I am surprised it's not in the US too.

There are always ways around it for individual cases, but you could not fire off your entire staff and then replace them without just cause. An illegal strike "might" be enough in some cases, but simple wage parity is certainly not.


I hope those employees have justification for a class-action lawsuit.

[Remthedays]

I am willing to bet that we have not heard the last of this. The employees will probably raise hell and catch the local senators attention since election campaigns are starting up.

[CaptainGonzo]

That's life in the corporate world... meanwhile back in the boardroom of the company, the Board of Directors is giving the HMFIC, COO, CFO, and a host of other VP's an high level muckymucks bonuses... :rolleyes:

[lvwrench]

Nothing new here, its' been going on for some time now and like the Gonz says the bonuses at the top just keep flowing. The lesser paid people will now not be able to answer questions or provide any real service to the customer base and it will be press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, 3 for India etc. and we have changed our menu so listen carefully.

[MalahatTwo7]

Thanks Marty. I was pretty sure it was that way for us, and like you surprised its not the same down here too. Oh well, I guess.

[FyredUp]

George,

As a self proclaimed SatanMart hater (WalMart to the unenlightened) I am proud to also claim that I do not and have nto patronized Circuit City ever. I went in there one time when they opened their super store in madison and was subjected to a salesman who knew less about his product than I did who proceeded to get snotty with me when I was clear to him he was wrong in what he was saying. Talked to a manager and got more of the same and said F*** it and left. Went over to my local retailer and got excellent service and a good price too.

On to the topic at hand...This is the problem with the United States today. Absolutely no conscience of any kind is left in the corporate world. Employees are nothing more than an expendable number in the corporate calculator. Is it any wonder why there is little loyalty or pride left in many employees anymore? Why be loyal? Why be dedicated? Why display pride in your work? Why give more than you absolutely have to? In the end none of that matters if your cost are more than the corporation determines you are worth. In my mind this is morally criminal if it is not legally criminal.

The other side of the coin is consumers in our great nation are little more than mindless cattle. Save a buck or 10 or 3 cents for that matter never looking at the effect beyond your small corner of the world. I have seen this personally more than once where the small town store, whether grocery or clothing or hardware was passed by, over and over, as the throngs rush to save money at the next corporate mega-mart. Oddly enough the towns folk wonder what happened to the financial support for school sports, or the 4th of July parade or the library or the local volly FD or whatever, when those small businesses closed. SatanMart has become smart enough to realize this and dole out money to SELECTED local agencies. Not quite what was there before but enough to quiet the masses.

I know what you are all thinking he is a small town wacko living in the past. Fine think whatever you wish. I shop locally with small businesses whenever possible. I have made a conscious decision to keep my money from going to WalMart and now I am even happier that I have never given any to Circuit City.

FyredUp

[CaptOldTimer]

George,

Circuit City is in bad shape, They have been closing stores laying off folks now for several years. I expect to see them fold one day soon.

Friends I know who works in the HQ here for them says it really bad.

[AZFF25]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/azff/WalMarx.gif" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

George,

As a self proclaimed SatanMart hater (WalMart to the unenlightened) I am proud to also claim that I do not and have nto patronized Circuit City ever. I went in there one time when they opened their super store in madison and was subjected to a salesman who knew less about his product than I did who proceeded to get snotty with me when I was clear to him he was wrong in what he was saying. Talked to a manager and got more of the same and said F*** it and left. Went over to my local retailer and got excellent service and a good price too.

On to the topic at hand...This is the problem with the United States today. Absolutely no conscience of any kind is left in the corporate world. Employees are nothing more than an expendable number in the corporate calculator. Is it any wonder why there is little loyalty or pride left in many employees anymore? Why be loyal? Why be dedicated? Why display pride in your work? Why give more than you absolutely have to? In the end none of that matters if your cost are more than the corporation determines you are worth. In my mind this is morally criminal if it is not legally criminal.

The other side of the coin is consumers in our great nation are little more than mindless cattle. Save a buck or 10 or 3 cents for that matter never looking at the effect beyond your small corner of the world. I have seen this personally more than once where the small town store, whether grocery or clothing or hardware was passed by, over and over, as the throngs rush to save money at the next corporate mega-mart. Oddly enough the towns folk wonder what happened to the financial support for school sports, or the 4th of July parade or the library or the local volly FD or whatever, when those small businesses closed. SatanMart has become smart enough to realize this and dole out money to SELECTED local agencies. Not quite what was there before but enough to quiet the masses.

I know what you are all thinking he is a small town wacko living in the past. Fine think whatever you wish. I shop locally with small businesses whenever possible. I have made a conscious decision to keep my money from going to WalMart and now I am even happier that I have never given any to Circuit City.

FyredUp

I understand and appreciate your position. Too bad that once you start referring to it as "SatanMart", you lose all credibility. Talk about mind numbed robots.:rolleyes:

[chingon]

Well, that's what we as a society get when we elect people who LOVE to regulate personal, individual "morality" but throw their hands up in the air and scream "'free' market" when corporate morality/justice is abridged publically and egregiously.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

George,

Circuit City is in bad shape, They have been closing stores laying off folks now for several years. I expect to see them fold one day soon.

Friends I know who works in the HQ here for them says it really bad.

Electronics is a dicey commodity. The margin is so slim and the overhead so high, it is a simple matter to run a business into the ground. Happened to a bunch of these retailers around here, most notably Nobody Beats the Wiz.

[FyredUp]

I understand and appreciate your position. Too bad that once you start referring to it as "SatanMart", you lose all credibility. Talk about mind numbed robots.:rolleyes:

George, George, George,

You are an angry man aren't you? Frankly I don't care if you find me credible or not.

Sorry my reference to WalMart as SATANMart causes you to believe I am a mind numbed robot. I suppose the rest of what I wrote was mindless droning too then. George, once again I find that perhaps you are one of the most pompous asses I have ever met.

Have a nice life...must be great to be the emperor of perfect.

FyredUp

[Bones42]

no conscience of any kind is left in the corporate world. Honest question: Who should the business be looking out for? It's stockholders or the employees? I always thought the idea of a business and it's goal was to make money for it's stockholders.

While I think what they are doing sucks, I don't know I'd say they have no conscience.

[FyredUp]

Bones42:

Honest question: Who should the business be looking out for? It's stockholders or the employees? I always thought the idea of a business and it's goal was to make money for it's stockholders.

While I think what they are doing sucks, I don't know I'd say they have no conscience.

To me the question of conscience is crystal clear. But hey let's move it into the fire service. Joe Smith has been with the Corporate Fire Deprtment for 20years and is making top pay of let's say $70K as an MPO. Billy Jones has been with the FD 6 years and just passed the MPO test, since he has only been here 6 years he is only making $45K. Now he is qualified to do Joe's job and really why not lay off Joe and save $25K a year? Okay, now you may say this is different, but is it really? Isn't the city's job to get you the most services for the least in taxes? Is it right? Fiscally, of course, morally it is outrageous. But no more outrageous than a corporation letting 3500 people go because they pay them too much.

Conscience clearly is lacking and no one will convince me otherwise. I hope there is a special place in Hell for these corporate jerk offs who do this.

FyredUp

[DeputyMarshal]

but you could not fire off your entire staff and then replace them without just cause.

Sure you can -- happens all the time. "Sorry, but your job position is being phased out so you're being laid off. BTW, we've created some new (marginally different) job positions that you're more than welcome to apply for. Of course, the new positions don't pay as well."

[DeputyMarshal]

Okay, now you may say this is different, but is it really?

Congratulations! You've just identified why it's better to work under contract in a union CBA than without one! Once you enter a CBA with an employer it becomes a lot more difficult for that employer to play games with your job.

[GodSendRain]

You have to remember that every big business started out as a small one. It is when the big industries start moving to other countries that the American job pool really starts to suffer. I have a really big problem with that. Big businesses like Wal-mart really don't need defending. It is the smaller ones who are just starting out who deserve tax breaks that even the playing field and make the game more interesting.

The Wal-Marx poster is funny, but Wal-Mart/Microsoft/McIntosh/BigBusinessCo. are the unfortunate byproduct of free-market capitalism, more so than communism.

However, there isn't any justification for firing employees to hire new ones at low starting wages (this is a bad business decision, in any case, because in the long run, the low service quality and slightly higher cost of training so many new employees will out weigh the cost of having experience of former employees with a knowledge of skills learned on-the-job). Circuit City's decision is a last ditch effort to save a company that has already lost to bigger, less specialized companies like Best Buy (There is a Circuit City about 30 miles from where I live, in a bad economic location far from the interstates, and at any given time during open hours, there are only about 6 cars in the parking lot).

[BlitzfireSolo]

I understand and appreciate your position. Too bad that once you start referring to it as "SatanMart", you lose all credibility. Talk about mind numbed robots.:rolleyes:

George, I understand and appreciate your position. Too bad that once you start your thread with the subject "Hey WalMart haters", you lose all credibility. It reminds me of what elementary school kids will do to start a fight in the hallway.

And why the h*ll would your post make me like WalMart any more - it only makes me dislike Circuit City even more. WalMart, Circuit City, Home Depot - I don't care who they are - I hate them all. Sure, some are much better/worse than others, but for the most part, they all su*k.

I may not agree with FyredUp about colored blocks, but we agree here for sure.

[lvwrench]

My gut instincts lead me to the conclusion that corporate America is just following the lead of those leading the country. Graft, lies, above the law attitude, take what you can get and so on and piss on the people. There is also plenty of people to pick from the available labor pool so why worry about firing someone and replacing them with cheaper labor and of course move operations into other countries where the laws don't mean anything. Greed, corruption and a total lack of ethics are in full swing. I understand economics but at what price? I think that there were good old days but they are long gone and at the pace things are moving there are going to be a lot of bodies littered along the way. Just another two cents worth.

[Dalmatian190]

It's consumerism, not capitalism.

When George Bush admonishes the Chinese that they need to spend more and save less, Adam Smith was spinning in his grave.

Capitalism, at it's heart, is about making wise investments that improve the quality of life. That can often mean forgoing short term enjoyment for long term stability and growth.

Consumerism is caught up on a cycle of how fast money can be made to move -- out of someone's pocket and into another. It's it at the heart of stocks that rise-and-fall on quarterly announcements (people trying to make money on stock sales commissions...), it's at the heart of predatory lending practices.

There's a reason stuff we use and through out go are called "consumables" and go on the expense budget, but investments are called "capital."

Large segments of our economy today however are oriented to consumption -- everything about them is disposable and not aimed at long term, strategic goals but how you can make a profit financing all this cash flying around buying stuff that really doesn't add any value to life other then a momentary pleasure.

Sure, none of use want to live like austere monks (except, austere monks :) ). It's nice to buy toys now and then. But honestly, you look around at how much is being bought, and you realize people are giving up a lot later in life for a hell of a lot of nice toys today.

Matt

[jccrabby3084]

Honest question: Who should the business be looking out for? It's stockholders or the employees? I always thought the idea of a business and it's goal was to make money for it's stockholders.

While I think what they are doing sucks, I don't know I'd say they have no conscience.



IMO...that truly is the problem with society today. At some point in time, someone said "What is best for ME", instead of "What is best for WE"

Point is, years ago companies and corporations did look out for their employees, gave good pay, good benefits, and a reason to retire. Workers formed unions to protect those benefits and to look out for the collective good for all. At some point, it became look out for #1. We can make more $$ if we do this, or cut that. People bought into that, if I work harder I can get ahead, I can make more and looked down at looking out for each other.

So what happened, companies looked at the putting more coin in their pocket, no matter who it hurt. So you saw outsourcing and jobs go overseas, unions being abolished, benefits being cut. You can look at these corporate attitudes for the reason for illegal immigration. How many workers are brought in to work for minimum or less wage and no benefits. They won't complain, probablly the most money they see. Yet we pay for their housing and healthcare, whereas these companies are putting more coin in their pocket and let the American society take care of their labor force.

Ok..didn't mean for this to be an immigration issue, although there are many U.S. citizens with no benefits because of the corporate attitude, and we pay for their labor force. Point is, who are businesses looking out for?...#1 stockholders and CEO. Who should they look out for?...The American worker.

Maybe we should measure the strength of the economy on good jobs and unemployment rates instead of how the stock market is doing.

[hwoods]

Sure you can -- happens all the time. "Sorry, but your job position is being phased out so you're being laid off. BTW, we've created some new (marginally different) job positions that you're more than welcome to apply for. Of course, the new positions don't pay as well."


Comcast Cable did that to my Daughter. 30 years in the Cable Industry, Big institutional knowledge of the business, couple of her co-workers said she was the only one who knew how all the parts fit. BUT, She made it to the upper ranks, then in a cost cutting spree, lost it all because she could be replaced by TWO other people. Who COMBINED, made less than she did. She's relaxing at home, enjoying the life of a full time mom, and NOT returning calls from her former Boss who can't get near the work out of the TWO people........:D

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

George, George, George,

You are an angry man aren't you? Frankly I don't care if you find me credible or not.

Sorry my reference to WalMart as SATANMart causes you to believe I am a mind numbed robot. I suppose the rest of what I wrote was mindless droning too then. George, once again I find that perhaps you are one of the most pompous asses I have ever met.

Have a nice life...must be great to be the emperor of perfect.

FyredUp

You type an eloquent post that I actually complimented. Then you throw in cliche tags that mean absolutely nothing but are the mantra of ultra-liberals.

Not angry. Not perfect.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

You have to remember that every big business started out as a small one. It is when the big industries start moving to other countries that the American job pool really starts to suffer. I have a really big problem with that. Big businesses like Wal-mart really don't need defending. It is the smaller ones who are just starting out who deserve tax breaks that even the playing field and make the game more interesting.

The Wal-Marx poster is funny, but Wal-Mart/Microsoft/McIntosh/BigBusinessCo. are the unfortunate byproduct of free-market capitalism, more so than communism.

However, there isn't any justification for firing employees to hire new ones at low starting wages (this is a bad business decision, in any case, because in the long run, the low service quality and slightly higher cost of training so many new employees will out weigh the cost of having experience of former employees with a knowledge of skills learned on-the-job). Circuit City's decision is a last ditch effort to save a company that has already lost to bigger, less specialized companies like Best Buy (There is a Circuit City about 30 miles from where I live, in a bad economic location far from the interstates, and at any given time during open hours, there are only about 6 cars in the parking lot).


Exactly. CC's demise will be hastened by the fact that most consumers recognoze this for what it is and will not shop there anymore out of fear of not having waranty's honored and such.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

George, I understand and appreciate your position. Too bad that once you start your thread with the subject "Hey WalMart haters", you lose all credibility. It reminds me of what elementary school kids will do to start a fight in the hallway.

And why the h*ll would your post make me like WalMart any more - it only makes me dislike Circuit City even more. WalMart, Circuit City, Home Depot - I don't care who they are - I hate them all. Sure, some are much better/worse than others, but for the most part, they all su*k.

I may not agree with FyredUp about colored blocks, but we agree here for sure.

You have to know the history on this forum of this discussion. Do a search and you will understand.

[GodSendRain]

It's consumerism, not capitalism.

When George Bush admonishes the Chinese that they need to spend more and save less, Adam Smith was spinning in his grave.

Capitalism, at it's heart, is about making wise investments that improve the quality of life. That can often mean forgoing short term enjoyment for long term stability and growth.

Consumerism is caught up on a cycle of how fast money can be made to move -- out of someone's pocket and into another. It's it at the heart of stocks that rise-and-fall on quarterly announcements (people trying to make money on stock sales commissions...), it's at the heart of predatory lending practices.

There's a reason stuff we use and through out go are called "consumables" and go on the expense budget, but investments are called "capital."

Large segments of our economy today however are oriented to consumption -- everything about them is disposable and not aimed at long term, strategic goals but how you can make a profit financing all this cash flying around buying stuff that really doesn't add any value to life other then a momentary pleasure.

Sure, none of use want to live like austere monks (except, austere monks :) ). It's nice to buy toys now and then. But honestly, you look around at how much is being bought, and you realize people are giving up a lot later in life for a hell of a lot of nice toys today.

Matt

I stand corrected. Capitalism perhaps was not the best choice of terminology, because capitalism in its pure and theoretical form is about the healthiest form of economy man has devised so far. In Circuit City's case, this has undoubtedly been mutated to the point where immoral business practices (rather than competitive pricing, advertising, costomer service) are used to get ahead. Like I said, it doesn't make any difference to the CC company's owners because they're already out of the running.

If Canada and other free nations have a law against this fire/hire technique, I believe we should have similar laws.

[FyredUp]

You type an eloquent post that I actually complimented. Then you throw in cliche tags that mean absolutely nothing but are the mantra of ultra-liberals.

Not angry. Not perfect.

You talk smugly about my cliche tags and yet as BlitzFireSolo syas YOU started the nonsense with your "Hey WalMart Haters" topic title.

I find it hilarious that you call me an ultra-liberal...the guys at the FD call me a right wing hardliner. You have commented on people's inability to discuss a topic without going to personal attacks...I guess that standard doesn't apply to you.

Ramble on George...just because YOU say it doesn't mean that it is right OR the only opinion. Although I would guess in your world it is probably treason to say YOU might be wrong or just plain pompous.

FyredUp

[CaptainGonzo]

I thought of something...

Aren't Circuit City's salespersons paid on commission? If they get rid of the highest paid salespeople, who earn their salary via commission, which means they sell a lot of "stuff" that makes $$$$ for the company.. isn't that like shooting yourself in the foot then complaining it hurts like all hell?

George.. SprawlMart would never do this.. as nobody stays employed there long enough to get the pay raises that make the bean counters go "hmmmmm"....

[DrParasite]

I shop at Walmart, staples, circuit city, bestbuy, and every other store that is local. How do I decide where to go? I also shop on ebay and on other sites on the web.I do my research, and whomever gets me the best price, that's where I go.

I have found that most of the time the salespeople are all idiots who know less about their products than I do. So I tend to ignore them, and only ask for help when I can't find a product (not what it does or which is better, only where it is).

As for circuit city's actions, from a business prospective, it makes sense, as you get the same job done for less money. it sucks for employee moral, and it can bite you in the ass, but for the lower level positions (like the employees at McDonalds) if you can replace them for cheaper, it improves the bottom line, which is what the stock holders are looking for. it happens when IT (and other departments) gets outsources to India and manufacturing gets outsourced to China all the time.

[WaterbryVTfire]

Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy! I shop at these businesses. Why? Because they are open when I need them to be, they have what I want in the size shape color I need. I can't go to my local hardware store on a Sunday afternoon when I am a$$hole deep in a project when I realize I am missing or need a spare part. Why? Because they are closed. The nearest Home Depot is 20+ miles away, so that really can't be used as an excuse.
How come no one ever says bad things about the grocery chains? (Or Sears or JC Penny?) They did the same to the local corner produce/meat market. And this was YEARS ago. Its just trendy to put these places down. Sorry, but thats plain and simply it...

Why not complain about the auto makers, health care providers & insurance, food stuffs (Kraft, Kelloggs)? They are also "big businesses" that put out the little guy.

Remember ALL these businesses started out as 1 business in one town...they just played their cards right.

There done my right wing rant. Next up? Sending a left wing ultra liberal to "Camp Kwityerbitchin" for proper training!

[LVFD301]

I just bought a new laptop this week. I shopped on the web, figured out what I wanted, and called my local computer shop - told them to order it. I could have bought it cheaper online, but I paid a hundred extra to get local service, and to support my local retailer.

This local retailer is the same guy who donates free wireless internet to our Fire Department.

My son is a dealer for a couple of radio manufactures, its kind of funny the number of fire departments that don't buy from him, but never miss a function to ask for a donation. Sadder yet, my son always trys to donate.
But I digress.

The people have spoken. They want the Walmart. Did they destroy main street? Nah, main street was their own worse enemy. The retailers that survive got a niche - and they ran with it.

Walmart employees? Just like any other place, you have good ones, and you have bad ones. Their job is NOT to be product experts, I have never seen Walmart claim to be product experts.

As an employer? I can't say. I hear good, I hear bad. Just like I do
for just about any other employer. I do know that our local supercenter
has LOTS of long term (over 10 years) employees.

I also know Walmart trys to help our local non-profits, including our Fire Departments.

Circuit City? They are in the death throes. Look for a banruptcy within 12 months. And don't count on them to come out of it.

Disclaimer - I am a Walmart shareholder.

And I love my new laptop.

[doughesson]

Wallyworld is local?I shop there quite often because the hours mean I can get it when I want it(except beer on Sunday in Paducah,which I'd buy on Saturday)and the food prices mean I can feed myself for $20 bucks a week if times are that hard.
If I am buying on the local,I go to places that aren't in my hometown as well as whereever I am at the time.Where the prices are lowest is where I usually go.
I never saw the logic of shopping online to compare prices.I'd lived close enough to the stores that it wasn't too much effort biking there to see what it cost.

I shop at Walmart, staples, circuit city, bestbuy, and every other store that is local. How do I decide where to go? I also shop on ebay and on other sites on the web.I do my research, and whomever gets me the best price, that's where I go.

[LVFD301]

Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy! I shop at these businesses. Why? Because they are open when I need them to be, they have what I want in the size shape color I need. I can't go to my local hardware store on a Sunday afternoon when I am a$$hole deep in a project


I spend a lot at our local farm store, our answer to a hardware store. We have two regional lumberyards, that I never go to, driving 40+ miles to
Home Depot. I love that place.

One of the great things that I find with Home Depot, and Walmart, is the
fact that I can travel across the country, and know that I can find my shorts at the Walmart at 3AM, or if at a site needing everything from padlocks to two by fours - I can get them at Home Depot.

I was in Lawrenceburg TN last month, needing padlocks (We use 4 wheel
combo locks) and I went to the local hardware store/building supply. They
had two on the shelf, one of which had been opened and the combo
changed, making it useless. I of course needed two. Who is going to blame
me about giving up and going to Walmart to get the locks?

[doughesson]

Ever work for a family owned company?
My biggest problem working family owned towboat companies on the river was when I'd gone as far as I could on deck,there was no room for advancement because the only wheelhouse jobs were for family.I could have married into a couple jobs but Tennessee don't allow that and I wouldn't anyway.Now,if they had an available daughter.......

That's life in the corporate world... meanwhile back in the boardroom of the company, the Board of Directors is giving the HMFIC, COO, CFO, and a host of other VP's an high level muckymucks bonuses... :rolleyes:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

You talk smugly about my cliche tags and yet as BlitzFireSolo syas YOU started the nonsense with your "Hey WalMart Haters" topic title.

I find it hilarious that you call me an ultra-liberal...the guys at the FD call me a right wing hardliner. You have commented on people's inability to discuss a topic without going to personal attacks...I guess that standard doesn't apply to you.

Ramble on George...just because YOU say it doesn't mean that it is right OR the only opinion. Although I would guess in your world it is probably treason to say YOU might be wrong or just plain pompous.

FyredUp

The term WalMart Hater comes from a thread that was on here about a year ago. It established that there are a number of people who hate WalMart. I, naturally, refer to them as WalMart Haters. Imagine that.

I never called you an ultra-liberal. Your post was far too coherent for me to ever call you that. What I said was that SatanMart was a cliche used as an ultra liberal mantra.

Neither one of these topics was a personal attack. In fact, if you read my posts, I actually complimented you.

[LVFD301]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/azff/WalMarx.gif" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Kind of strange. Walmart is the ultimate in free market economy,
why would anyone even try to compare them to communisum?

Makes absolutely no sense.

[doughesson]

They have a problem with businesses that actually turn a profit with the tax rates this country has.They have to find the sour grapes to run these companies down with and act as if the world will end if they have to work overtime when asked.

Kind of strange. Walmart is the ultimate in free market economy,
why would anyone even try to compare them to communisum?

Makes absolutely no sense.

[JTFIRE80]

Didn't the Federal Government recently do this?? I believe the term is BRAC!! And there was no where's near as much an uproar on here, and hell, it's only National Defense...So, where are all your priorities at???

[SamuelFire]

I hate "corporate welfare".

Pay the people minimum wage and let the taxpayers foot the bill for their medical care, their grocery bill, their rent (Section 8 housing), their smile if they use the government subsidized dental plan.

By doing this, the corporate money managers make millions upon millions, living in houses where I couldn't afford the taxes.

[Bones42]

Didn't the Federal Government recently do this?? I believe the term is BRAC!! And there was no where's near as much an uproar on here, and hell, it's only National Defense...So, where are all your priorities at??? A good number of the employees/subcontractors that are being affected by BRAC in my area are moving with the base and will be making out better than if the base remained here. Same wages, lower cost of living expenses.

[BKDRAFT]

Did you read this? If WalMart tried this, there would be congressional hearings.

American Medical Response West (Largest private ambulance company in the nation) stated there goal is to have employees no longer than three years. :eek:

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Wal-Mart opened a supercenter in the town where I work. They got a 50% property tax break for 10 years...One of the most generous give backs ever for that fine "All American" institution. Wanna know why they demanded the tax breaks to move in ? Because it is located in a predominately black neighborhood. Good ol' American values my ass. They aren't getting any breaks in areas where they are desperately trying to expand. Usually upper/middle class white majority areas. I do not shop at Wal-Mart for our firehouse meals. I still shop at the local Union grocery store. We may pay a little more but I feel it is worth it. Spin it all you want, but Wal-Mart is as hypocritical and phony as any other business in this country. I did buy one thing at the Wal-Mart.... A Dixie Chicks CD...I liked the irony of it.

[LVFD301]

I do not shop at Wal-Mart for our firehouse meals. I still shop at the local Union grocery store. We may pay a little more but I feel it is worth it. Spin it all you want, but Wal-Mart is as hypocritical and phony as any other business in this country. I did buy one thing at the Wal-Mart.... A Dixie Chicks CD...I liked the irony of it.

So, they are as hypocritical as your local union grocery store?

I guess we should just start growing all our own food. Knitting our
own clothes. Back to basics.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Wal-Mart opened a supercenter in the town where I work. They got a 50% property tax break for 10 years...One of the most generous give backs ever for that fine "All American" institution. Wanna know why they demanded the tax breaks to move in ? Because it is located in a predominately black neighborhood. Good ol' American values my ass. They aren't getting any breaks in areas where they are desperately trying to expand. Usually upper/middle class white majority areas. I do not shop at Wal-Mart for our firehouse meals. I still shop at the local Union grocery store. We may pay a little more but I feel it is worth it. Spin it all you want, but Wal-Mart is as hypocritical and phony as any other business in this country. I did buy one thing at the Wal-Mart.... A Dixie Chicks CD...I liked the irony of it.

I can't find the article right now, but I believe that part of the reason for the tax break was the restrictive zoning laws and taxes that were put into effect in the city of Chicago to keep these superstores out.

Imagine the gall of WalMart...wanting to provide goods at discount prices in a lower income neighborhood.

[ThNozzleman]

Kind of strange. Walmart is the ultimate in free market economy,
why would anyone even try to compare them to communisum?

Makes absolutely no sense.

Because over 70% of their commodities are made in communist China, maybe? I wonder if 70% of the cheap crap they sell in their new Chinese Supercenters are made in America? :rolleyes:

[LVFD301]

Because over 70% of their commodities are made in communist China, maybe? I wonder if 70% of the cheap crap they sell in their new Chinese Supercenters are made in America? :rolleyes:

Again, thats the ultimate in a free market economy.

The American public buys it. The places LIKE Walmart
provide it. If the American public wnated otherwise,
then they can not buy it.

[LVFD301]

Wal-Mart opened a supercenter in the town where I work. They got a 50% property tax break for 10 years...One of the most generous give backs ever for that fine "All American" institution. Wanna know why they demanded the tax breaks to move in ? Because it is located in a predominately black neighborhood. Good ol' American values my ass. They aren't getting any breaks in areas where they are desperately trying to expand. Usually upper/middle class white majority areas. I do not shop at Wal-Mart for our firehouse meals. I still shop at the local Union grocery store. We may pay a little more but I feel it is worth it. Spin it all you want, but Wal-Mart is as hypocritical and phony as any other business in this country. I did buy one thing at the Wal-Mart.... A Dixie Chicks CD...I liked the irony of it.

Nah. Lots of places get even better than 50%. Caterpillar got a
tax deal when they opened up a plant locally - 100%, for over 10 years. Really hurt the local Fire Department.

TIF financing, where a developer can spend money for roads, water improvements, etc - all things they would have to do anyways - and get
paid back by tax abatements - can do much better than 50% abatements.

I ask again, if Walmart is as "Hypocritical and phony AS ANY OTHER business
in the country" why do you shop at the local union grocery store, that must be just as hypocritical and phony?

[jasper45]

So now, is the government supposed to dictate what a ‘good business’ is, or isn‘t?
You don’t like Wal-Mart, it’s simple; don’t shop there, no big deal.
I know that my grandmother enjoys buying her 4-dollar prescriptions there; it seems to work out pretty well for her.
I really don’t see what the big deal is. Here at home, and for work I shop at a store call “Pick & Save”, a value based super store. They’re locally owned by Roundy’s, and I guarantee they have put many small ‘mom+pop” stores out of business. I guess that’s ok though, after all they are unionized, and teamsters at that. That is the American way, isn’t it? Non-unionized is evil if they take over small business, but if it’s a union shop it’s all right?
The market will dictate what will work, what is bought, or what is sold. A label that say made in America, or Union made doesn’t guarantee a better product anymore, like it used to.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart but, some obviously do.

[mcaldwell]

Small Hijack, but I am reading a book right now called "The Walmart Effect", by Charles Fishman.

http://www.amazon.com/Wal-Mart-Effect-Powerful-Works-Transforming/dp/1594200769

I reccomend it for anyone who thinks they have an opinion on Walmart, or anyone who just wants an interesting read. The book is neither pro, nor con walmart, but views the effects from both sides of the fence. A reader on either side of the debate will no doubt have thier opinions reinforced, but I found it interesting to see the cause and effect detailed out from both points of view.

It certainly gives an interesting insight into where discount retail is likely going in the future too.

[DaSharkie]

Because over 70% of their commodities are made in communist China, maybe? I wonder if 70% of the cheap crap they sell in their new Chinese Supercenters are made in America? :rolleyes:

Not a fan of Wally World personally, but how is what Circuit City any different than when Maytag was bought out by Whirlpool?

Whirlpool closes the Maytag factories and moves them to Mexico.

Or just yesterday a company (maybe Hanes clothing I think) announced that it will shut down a large mill in Winston-Salem, NC lettign go of 650+ people to move their factories to (and this is a direct quote) the "Carribean basin."

And as it was said, people buy it so that is what they offer. As a nation we have allowed a large portion of manufacturing to leave this nation. At the same time our own companies have produced inferior products - just look at the (former) "Big Three." Sales plummet, the union members just the other day said that GM was lying on their financial reports essentially and would not back down on their negotiations. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17815093/ Then they will bitch because more people were laid off and plants were closed.

Meanwhile, Nissan has plants in Tennessee. Toyota just built one of the largest manufacturing plants in the world in Texas (for their new Tundra), and plans on building another massive plant in Mississippi to build the new 2008 Highlander.

So the overpriced, inferior products sit on lots and our own citizens do not buy them because they are crap. Yet people bitch about it. To be fair, I no longer own an "American" car. I have a Subaru (made in Indiana) and just bought a Toyota Highlander (made in Japan) because of 5 bad experiences with cars from the Big Three. My three mountain bikes (all Cannondales) are made in Pennsylvania and are far superior to what I see other bicycle manufacturers sell for a comparable price that are made in Taiwan (Specialized, Klein, Kona, etc...) It all depends on the product and the price. It is all about servicing what the customer wants.

Companies do what they do nowadays to "save" money but it hurts them in the long run. Circuit City got a whole lot of a bad publicity over this and will pay for it dearly.

Your comment about the 70% of stuff made in China is appropriate. But it is not just because the store sells it that way - it is because they are only serving what the customer will buy with their money. But if you go to any store - Target, Best Buy, Radio Shack, or even your local store the story is the same: everything made in Taiwan, China, Bangladesh, Mexico, Korea, or some other place.

It will not change. This nation is continuing its move of becoming a consumer, and not a producer. We have no one to blame but ourselves as a society - not any store.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

I should have just said "the oldest grocery store chain" in lieu of union store. My intent wasnt to wad up panties. George, our Wal-Mart is in a majority minority suburb. It serves a wide range of people in many different economic levels. Sure, low cost goods are great for people struggling to get by. So is paying your fair share of your property taxes. Thats what I meant by hypocritical.

[Dalmatian190]

>As a nation we have allowed a large portion of manufacturing to leave this
>nation.

Yes and no.

The value of our manufactured goods has stayed pretty steady.

What's plummeted is the number of people needed to make those goods.

Toyota just started construction of a U.S. plant for Highlanders -- in Wellspring, AL.

2,000 employees. 150,000 cars / year capacity. That's just simply amazing -- even realizing stuff like engines, transmissions, wiring harness, etc are probably made somewhere else.

Another example is we *can't* go back to human welders on our submarines today -- after Newport News & Electric Boat developed the robots to do welds...the robots can hold much more powerful electric arcs much more accurately and the Navy raised the standards they're held to. Human welders physically can't make these welds anymore. My local paper keeps advocating for more work for EB...I honestly don't think they have a clue that EB will never, ever employ anywhere near as many people even if they were building twice as many subs as they did in their heyday.

Or Kaman Aerospace -- their now closed factory near me specialized in wiring harnesses. As anyone whose bought apparatus in the last ten years...complicated, manpower intensive "Wiring Harnesses" are rapidly becoming an anacronism in the age of "Multiplexing."

-------------------
We all know of the transfer of skills to lower cost areas.

What really insults the sense of fairness in the Circuit City situation is people who played by the rules and got the raises on the schedule established by the company getting fired, not because the company moved but because the company wants to hire someone cheaper in their own neighborhood.

There's other stuff just as bad, this just is setting a new bar for being "visible."

One subtle thing in my own town that I found insulting was the school bus drivers. Laidlaw & First Student have a pretty good scam going when you look at the contracts in the region --

Every 5 years or so, they win the contract for a town from another. Yep, lowest bid, and they hire all the drivers.

But of course, the drivers lose their seniority and come in as new hires for a couple bucks less per hour.

What pisses me off is it's the school board ****ting in it's own bed -- the bus drivers don't make that much, they all live in the area. Laidlaw takes over from First Student, they cut their bid to the town by $25k, and they cut $50k in payroll. In a few years when FS comes back, they cut the bid by Laidlaw by $25k, and shave $50k in payroll by knocking all the bus drivers back again.

Pretty darn good scam, eh?

[hwoods]

Dal, that's easy to fix. A School Transportation Contractor in Maryland has to meet certain requirements set by State Law. Among the Laws relevant to this is one which sets the Maximum Number of Busses that a Contractor can own at any given time. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[CaptainGonzo]

Laidlaw & First Student have a pretty good scam going when you look at the contracts in the region. Every 5 years or so, they win the contract for a town from another. Yep, lowest bid, and they hire all the drivers.

But of course, the drivers lose their seniority and come in as new hires for a couple bucks less per hour.

American Medical Response West (Largest private ambulance company in the nation) stated there goal is to have employees no longer than three years.

Same corporation.. SOS*

*same old s***!

[Dalmatian190]

LOL Gonzo...

Laidlaw owned AMR until 2 years ago.

When I was fact checking that...saw First Student is buying out Laidlaw.

[AZFF25]

Dalmation,

Glad I don't work for AMR anymore.......corporate GREED at it's best!!!


AZFF

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

You should have seen how successful AMR was in the Chicago-area during the mid 90's :eek: :p :D ;)

[Dave1983]

Two of the brothers from my FD just got canned by Circuit City. One had been with them for 15+ years and both were well paid. The mutts didnt even fire them in person, they called them on the phone! They were both told they could re-apply for for minimum pay. :mad:

I know one FD whos members will never step foot in a Circuit City again.