Yes a stupid question but want to know the answer

[hoosierdaddy]

Do turnout pants have knee pads built into them? This is a stupid question but I really want to know. I can't imagine you guys just go on your knees through all the things you go into without having any padding. So, please answer the newbie's stupid question. Thank you.

Happy St.Patrick's Day

[jbailey399]

yes most do have padding. some just have reinforcement pads on them. just depends on what brand your dept. goes with.

[KenNFD1219]

Not a stupid question by any means.

Some pants have a suede knee patch to protect the material. I have seen pants with a pad in the knee to protect the wearer. Not sure if it is an option on all pants.

The pads look like they work although I have never had a set. The pants without the pad are not too bad for crawling-much better than the rubber boots over the uniform pants from years ago.

[johnfd86]

All of our turn outs have a knee patch to prevent wear. I have never seen pants with a knee pad although it sounds like a good idea. Over the years I think I have had more issues with my knees getting hot rather than just sore from being on them. Thats when you learn to duck walk.

I'm with ken on the hip boots. We were told about ten years ago to take them and do anything but wear them on emergency runs. They were pretty good for fishing or hunting in shallow water.

[SWLAFireDawg]

I had the option of getting them with my last gear, but I was told they tend to roll out of position and the knee does not get any benefit then. I purchased a set of velcro pads and they stay right where I need them.

[MidgetStalker]

These have ribs so you can bend and crawl. Extremely comfortable! Dont know how you can live without them!

[Mihlrad]

yea thats what we have, the rows like above my post. We have morning pride. They are replaceable too with velcro and buttons if they rip.

[johnny46]

For god's sake, just walk.

[clark918]

These have ribs so you can bend and crawl. Extremely comfortable! Dont know how you can live without them!

Those actually look really nice. I wish my pants had those.

hoosierdaddy... You don't learn unless you ask questions. So don't feel bad about asking anything. I'm sure what you ask on here, will also help several others that read this as well. It actually helped me. I've never had pants with built in knee pads. When we would spend eight straight hours doing search and rescue in firefighter 1 they would have us bring some in for the time. Now I learned from some replies that they actually have them built in on a few styles. So don't feel bad at all.

And the only reason that people might not want to reply to you is because of your handle. If you're an Indiana Hoosier fan, then I'm against you since I'm from Wisconsin. haha

[hoosierdaddy]

For god's sake, just walk.

This is your second nonsensical post to me. If something's bothering you there are doctors you can talk to.

[hoosierdaddy]

Those actually look really nice. I wish my pants had those.

hoosierdaddy... You don't learn unless you ask questions. So don't feel bad about asking anything. I'm sure what you ask on here, will also help several others that read this as well. It actually helped me. I've never had pants with built in knee pads. When we would spend eight straight hours doing search and rescue in firefighter 1 they would have us bring some in for the time. Now I learned from some replies that they actually have them built in on a few styles. So don't feel bad at all.

And the only reason that people might not want to reply to you is because of your handle. If you're an Indiana Hoosier fan, then I'm against you since I'm from Wisconsin. haha

Hey, thanks Clark. I'm glad my question could help others. I always wondered this. Simple matter, but yes I've wondered about it. And now I know.

LOL Yeah, I'll be moving to Indiana. I actually have relatives in Wisconsin. They live near Green Bay. Nothing wrong with state pride man. Take care.

Thanks to everyone else who answered constructively too. I really appreciate it. And the link too.

[johnny46]

This is your second nonsensical post to me. If something's bothering you there are doctors you can talk to.
Medical doctors or other types? A Phd in Garmentology, perhaps?

This is nonsense: Flarble kiby kiby shnooo!

Also nonsense: LA fire helmets are the coolest!

What I posted was a plea to walk instead of crawl. Or crouch.

[malana1]

The pants specifically designed for women have pads built in.

[hoosierdaddy]

Medical doctors or other types? A Phd in Garmentology, perhaps?

This is nonsense: Flarble kiby kiby shnooo!

Also nonsense: LA fire helmets are the coolest!

What I posted was a plea to walk instead of crawl. Or crouch.

O..........K?

[johnny46]

O..........K?
That key is sticking again. Have you tried removing it and cleaning the contact areas? Also try reducing the repeat rate on your computer. A quick google should turn up a step by step to help you through the process.

[hoosierdaddy]

That key is sticking again. Have you tried removing it and cleaning the contact areas? Also try reducing the repeat rate on your computer. A quick google should turn up a step by step to help you through the process.

It's not sticking. It never was. If it ain't broke, you don't fix it.

[johnny46]

It's not sticking. It never was. If it ain't broke, you don't fix it.
You mean me personally? I'm not a computer repair type, so even though the key is broken, I'm not going to fix it.

[hoosierdaddy]

You mean me personally? I'm not a computer repair type, so even though the key is broken, I'm not going to fix it.

Nope. Ok. It's not. Ok.

[johnny46]

Nope. Ok. It's not. Ok.

It's not what?

[hoosierdaddy]

It's not what?

Sentence structure, sentence structure.

You said "even though the key is broken" and I said "it's not".

[johnny46]

Sentence structure, sentence structure.

You said "even though the key is broken" and I said "it's not".

what key are you talking about?

[hoosierdaddy]

what key are you talking about?

The same one you were talking about.

[johnny46]

The same one you were talking about.
The same one what?

[hoosierdaddy]

The same one what?

The same key.

[hoosierdaddy]

Because you'll forget...the same key that you were talking about. Nice chattin' with ya. Have fun.

[doughesson]

Not me,Boats.I'm gonna crawl like a Marine if there's an active fire and I have to go in to see if everyone made it out and exactly where that fire is so the bros on the engine can put it down.Even if I am packed up and have my SCBA going.
If you stand,you get all that smoke,heat and mesobutylbadstuffs in your face and I'm not a big fan of that.I cough enough as it is from having parents that smoked.
And pads on the knees is a good thing.They'll keep you from damaging your knees as much on hot surfaces like metal and metal grates.
That's the funny thing about fires.Things that you wouldn't ordinarily think would heat up enough to bother you do.
For god's sake, just walk.

[johnny46]

Because you'll forget...the same key that you were talking about. Nice chattin' with ya. Have fun.
It's nice chatting with you, too. You have nice typeface. It's Arabic, right?

[allineedisu]

What’s the big deal?

We used turnouts years back that didn't have them or the coats with shoulder pads. We got along great.

Folks now days are too soft and can't take any pain. We didn't use masks back in the late 50's or 60's. We tough it out. The masks where on the trucks. Room and contents didn't require the use of a mask. Get in knock it down and out then take a blow.

[res1cueffd]

I think what johnny was getting at was that rarely should a fire require you to fully crawl along the ground. Most of the time duck-walking is sufficient if there is enough of a thermal gradient to force you down.

[hoosierdaddy]

What’s the big deal?

We used turnouts years back that didn't have them or the coats with shoulder pads. We got along great.

Folks now days are too soft and can't take any pain. We didn't use masks back in the late 50's or 60's. We tough it out. The masks where on the trucks. Room and contents didn't require the use of a mask. Get in knock it down and out then take a blow.

I don't know if there's a "big deal". I'm not a firefighter and so I was just asking a question I wanted to know the answer to. I don't think it's a matter of being "soft". Are hockey goalies soft because they wear protective padding? Are they soft because they wear face masks?

So I take it if you were fighting fires now (I'm assuming you don't because you used past tense) that you would refuse to wear a mask, etc.? I don't think it's a matter of "toughing it out" or being "soft". Not at all.

[hoosierdaddy]

I think what johnny was getting at was that rarely should a fire require you to fully crawl along the ground. Most of the time duck-walking is sufficient if there is enough of a thermal gradient to force you down.

Maybe that is all he meant. However, he didn't say it and since I am not a firefighter I was only going by my image of what you guys do inside a burning building. I figured since you wanted to stay low, then you obviously went through on your knees. I guess I was wrong, but still thank you guys for answering my thread.

[hoosierdaddy]

It's nice chatting with you, too. You have nice typeface. It's Arabic, right?

*blush* lol j/k

Not sure actually.

[johnny46]

In all seriousness, I've never had to crawl, never had to duck walk and rarely so much as crouched. I'm under 6 feet tall, so I've got three feet above me to hold the fire gases that are the worst. I know what the books say and I have ducked under smoke to get a good view, but walking is faster and I've yet to burn my ears off.

[doughesson]

I wasn't saying that I'd never walk,it's just that when there is a fire near the room you are checking out and all kinds of smoke and gas are there too,you figure the buildings occupants are going to be down on the floor like we tell their kids to do during school visits.
When not under a mask,I wear glasses due to a punch from a early girlfriend's angry father.Since my vision is blurry without them and oftentimes visibility is reduced to how far I can reach at most or at least as far as the facepiece,I got used to going low and reaching out to touch someone during a search.
I stick with what works for me and tell others about it so they can try it and see if it works for them as well.

In all seriousness, I've never had to crawl, never had to duck walk and rarely so much as crouched. I'm under 6 feet tall, so I've got three feet above me to hold the fire gases that are the worst. I know what the books say and I have ducked under smoke to get a good view, but walking is faster and I've yet to burn my ears off.

[RESERVEFORNOW]

I wear glasses due to a punch from a early girlfriend's angry father. I stick with what works for me and tell others about it so they can try it and see if it works for them as well.

Doug, So you want us to all try getting punched by angry girlfriend's fathers? :p

[doughesson]

Nah,but if my experience will help some teenager remember to get his girlfriend home when her Daddy says to and not get punched like I did,I will not consider my time knowing you to be wasted.

Doug, So you want us to all try getting punched by angry girlfriend's fathers? :p

[Jonnee]

I don't know if there's a "big deal". I'm not a firefighter and so I was just asking a question I wanted to know the answer to. I don't think it's a matter of being "soft". Are hockey goalies soft because they wear protective padding? Are they soft because they wear face masks?

So I take it if you were fighting fires now (I'm assuming you don't because you used past tense) that you would refuse to wear a mask, etc.? I don't think it's a matter of "toughing it out" or being "soft". Not at all.

*********************

I think what the old chief (based upon his symbol of rank of 4 bugles – aka Deputy Fire Chief) was saying, that it really doesn't make any difference. We have them but I can say that I like the trousers better with out all the bulk in the knee area.

You can't compare a hockey player with a firefighter in any terms. Since you are NOT a firefighter and I have been one for over 30 years, I failed to see how you can make any comparisons. It would be like me comparing a driver of a fire truck with a pilot of a jet plane.

The reasoning that you find the knee pads in the trousers are to help the member scoot along on the knees and to ease the wear and tear on the garment. When department’s are paying the high costs for turnouts, they would like them to last longer.

Gear has changed drastically since allineedisu probably came on the job. He mention the 50’s so that mean that they were wearing cotton duck gear, ¾ length boots and probably the tin lizzy’s for helmet. That is an aluminum helmet made by Cairns Helmet Company, with the trade name of “Senator”.

Equipment, trucks, hose, nozzles, tools, air masks, turnout gear have had major improvements in the last 40 to 50 years!!

[hoosierdaddy]

*********************

I think what the old chief (based upon his symbol of rank of 4 bugles – aka Deputy Fire Chief) was saying, that it really doesn't make any difference. We have them but I can say that I like the trousers better with out all the bulk in the knee area.

Ok. I see.

You can't compare a hockey player with a firefighter in any terms. Since you are NOT a firefighter and I have been one for over 30 years, I failed to see how you can make any comparisons. It would be like me comparing a driver of a fire truck with a pilot of a jet plane.

I understand you can't compare them. I was using an analogy because a hockey player, especially a goalie, is engaged in a very dangerous job too. They wear protection, masks, etc. What does me not being a firefighter have to do with making comparisons? I can't make a comparison because I'm not a firefighter? I believe your analogy was a strawman but that's ok.

The reasoning that you find the knee pads in the trousers are to help the member scoot along on the knees and to ease the wear and tear on the garment. When department’s are paying the high costs for turnouts, they would like them to last longer.

Gear has changed drastically since allineedisu probably came on the job. He mention the 50’s so that mean that they were wearing cotton duck gear, ¾ length boots and probably the tin lizzy’s for helmet. That is an aluminum helmet made by Cairns Helmet Company, with the trade name of “Senator”.

Equipment, trucks, hose, nozzles, tools, air masks, turnout gear have had major improvements in the last 40 to 50 years!!

Ok. I was aware that equipment has made major improvements. Now, is it "soft" to use the modern equipment? I don't believe it is.

[jerry4184]

Some people think it is. There are still departments that use the old equipment, and have functioned exceptionally in it for years. I know ChicagoFF would gladly trade his new bunkers for his old roll ups and long coat. The newest doesn't necessarily equate to the best.

I won't call anyone soft that fights fire. They get my respect just for that. However, you have to actually do the job, there are guys in bunkers that have no business being here, and I'll call them soft til the end of time. But at the same time there are guys that were soft in the old stuff.

Really, I guess what I'm saying, is that a lot of the softie talk is in jest, but sometimes, it's not. Older guys might look at the bunkers thing as being a softie, and that's fine with me. It doesn't effect how I do my job if someone on an internet forum thinks im soft for wearing bunkers. I'd wear roll-ups and a long coat if I was allowed. Doesn't make me better, or "harder" than anyone else here.

[DocVBFDE14]

Are hockey goalies soft because they wear protective padding? Are they soft because they wear face masks?

l.


Ed Giacomin didn't wear a helmet till the end of his career. Craig MacTavish didn't for his whole career.

[doughesson]

Ed Giacomin didn't wear a helmet till the end of his career. Craig MacTavish didn't for his whole career.

Do they still have their own teeth?

[RyanVB522]

To: doughesson-

yes you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about a Fire Fighter and a hockey goalie, and yes expect a defense when you do compare a Fire Fighter to to a hockey goalie in a forum filled with Fire Fighters. beside that point no it doesnt matter what you wear as long as you do the job effectivly and with respect. no one Fire Fighter is better for wearing more or less protective equipment. if it was up to me i would wear the 3/4 pullups a coat and helmet, just because i wear all my PPE like my department Says i have to doesnt make me any more less of a man. Old timers will be oldtimers and that is just the way it is in the fire service thier is no right or wrong just the way YOU do things. (BTW im not bashing old timers my father was one and some day i will be one :))