Help with Managment

[williamsryan]

I wanted to see what everyone here thinks about my groups situation. For quite a long time the Emergency Services Department on my site was run as a Fire Department, with a state FDID#, tools like axes, haligans, pike polls, handlines, supply lines, turn-out gear etc... Also we had our own building resembling a firestation. Now we have a new manager and he has no fire/ems/hazmat background and he has told us that all fire departments do is smash stuff and he does not want us to be anything like a fire department. Now he has made a bunch of policies saying if something catches on fire we just call local volunteer FD. This really angers us because we are all very experienced Firefighters and Hazmat Specialists and we have been told when the local VFD gets here we can not even don turn out gear and go in with them as facility representives since we know the chemicals and building layouts. He has also taken our building and made us sit in cubicals in the office area with all the pencil pushers and we have to park our response vehicles in the employee parking lot. Now it seems a like maybe we might not even get decals and emergency lights and sirens on our new hazmat truck to save money. I don't know what to do, I ahve always been a firemen and these new suit company men hate us firemen.

[firespec35]

Can you go above him. Mind you that it could be career suicide, but it could be an option?

[gdsqdcr]

What does the company expect from your team? If they expect you to respond, then you need to go above the new manager.

Anthony

[THEFIRENUT]

I am pretty sure that (like most companies) having an "on-site emergency team" saves quite a bit on their insurance. If your manager feels that you should no longer respond, maybe your company's insurance carrier should be informed (or at least let your manager know that this is an option). As one other in here has mentioned, this could be career suicide.

I personally would start by talking to your safety manager (unless this is the guy that you are talking about). Then I would try to reason with your manager (safety or otherwise), stating that having an "on-site team" would not only provide for a safer work environment for his employees, it might even save the company money from preventing damage that would otherwise be quite more extensive from the longer response time from your volunteer department.

p.s. Playing hardball should always be a last option. But it IS an option!

[kadempc]

Is this a Unionized Environment? If so, they should be made aware of the situation. They may be able to assist in prioritzing the situation. If not, I agree with finding out what they corporate expectations are. This just may be a case of someone needing to be educated. Try not to place to much pressure on your manager from below. If the company wants this, they will apply the pressure from above. (Unless of course you don't want the job anymore, then take the chance and press on.)

[williamsryan]

No the company has a NO UNION POLICY, so informing a union is not an option. Also the company does not really like us from what I can tell. We are veiwed a the guys who get paid well, and all we do is sleep and watch TV (which isn't true, we are not aloud to sleep and do not ahve a TV) but whenever we respond on calls the employees are always like "sorry to wake you". No of the companies other sites have anything close to what we have here, at those sites the Security Officers are EMTs and a few employees are cross trained as Hazmat Techs but neither are full time Emergency Responders like us. Also I atribute some of it to the fact that I see us as a jock, click type group everyone is goes out drinking and has a great time. A lot of the upper management is computer geek types and I really think they dispise the "cool kid" type look like we give off. We are always having a great time together but like a fire department it is a memebrs only kinda thing. This are just some of my observations.

[Chimpie]

Curious: What type of facility are you? What type of dept are you? (Security, Fire, EMS?) What is your main role at your facility? Are you contracted out or are you in-house?

I'm just curious as to why, if you were a "fire department", why would they hire someone in that did not think that way.

[williamsryan]

A wile ago they were a fire department before my time, they did live burns in aquired stuctures and all of that kind of stuff. Now instead of a Security Group and an Emergency Services Group we have a merged Security and Emergency Services Group. The E.S. guys still only do emergency response but there is talk about cross training us as security and then we break away and respond when an emergency happens. This brings up a lot of issueing we are tring to explain to them now like distance to our response vehicles and readiness but they only see the reduced cost of a dual role group. Also we used to have a Captain that was the operational command person, the highest ranking person and he took IC on calls and all, now that we our merged we just have a Security and Emergency Services Supervisor and they do not have to have any hazmat, ems, fire training at all and are not required to respond to calls if they come through the ranks of the security department. As you can see it looks like our organization is heading down hill fast.

[Chimpie]

Many industrial and manufacturing facilites country wide have a security-fire-ems mixed departments. Unless your site has an extremely high fire risk, I don't see a reason to have a full fire staff just sitting around the fire house.

At a automobile manufacturing facility I used to work at all the ERT members were trained medical first responders and had their FF 1&2. There was usually one at the fire station. If a fire alarm went out the ERT members, who were also security officers, responded to the alarm location while the guy at the fire station drove the truck to the scene. By the time the truck got to the scene the security officers, who were already on scene, pretty much determined if the alarm was real or not.

[arff42]

In regards to a previous post, I used to work Fire & Security at a Boeing Plant in California. We were pretty slow, so there was no seperating us. Basically we just drove as a crew in the fire apparatus from post to post, giving breaks to the guards. If a 911 broke out, we locked the gate and responded. Since our contract was from a Security company, fire/ems came second and security came first. The guys did not seem to mind because it was still considered fulltime fire experience for the resume. If your facility is going to go that route, maybe it is time to look else where. It is too bad when the people you provide protection for, thinks that all we do is sleep and goof off. I recomend going and training so that the public can see how hard you work. Pull hose, Rescue stuff, whatever it takes to change there oppinions. For now, just keep up the fight and try to round up those who support you guys.

Kev

[williamsryan]

Yes, but during a normal 24hr period we can handle between 10-15 emergency dispatches. Granted most of these are determined to be false alarms or very slight leaks we still have to respond and deal with them. This does not include our other responsabilities on site like fire inspections, safety walk-throughs, etc...

[Flochief]

I see several persons saying security officers are cross trained as EMT's, Firefighters etc. On paper this looks great, however in the real world this may not be the best thing.
At my plant when we have a medical incident or small incident Security officers will lead the outside responding agencies (We do not have transport capabilities) to the location of the incident. We (ERT) provide medical, fire, rescue, and haz mat responce. Security Officers continue to moniter the entrance gate. Our 4-5 Security officers are extremely busy during an incident. So therefore our officers will have to go their primary role of being a security officer. I don't mind Security Officers being cross trained but SOPs and Guidelines should be in place so everyone knows their roles and responsibilites during different kinds of and escalting types of emergencies.
Just my thoughts

[Chimpie]

Yes, but during a normal 24hr period we can handle between 10-15 emergency dispatches. Granted most of these are determined to be false alarms or very slight leaks we still have to respond and deal with them. This does not include our other responsabilities on site like fire inspections, safety walk-throughs, etc...

How many members of your emergenecy services group (FD) are on at one time?
How many members of the security group are on at one time?

And again, what type of facility are you?

[SamTan]

In my dept, historically we were always Fire & Security, both being company staff. However in recent years we have separated from security and become the Fire & Safety Dept. The Security staff are now all contractors and are not trained in fire or EMT. They do however play a critical role during an incident operating as incident rear controllers, acting upon our fire ground messages, liasing with outside emergency service (if required) and communicating with mangement etc etc...

So we solely do Fire / Ems / Safety now...the way it should be. However, our Fire Station is opposite the Security Maingate house and we still interact with the staff on a daily basis and out of hours or in the absense of the security supervisor we act as their line managers.

Williamsryan....I do sympathise with you mate. I think that if any industry could do away with its in-house emergency service then it would! however we are a necessary evil to them and are required by insurance to be here. When the 5hit hits the fan though we're the best thing since sliced bread!!! It really is worth looking at your situation from an insurance point of view.....Is this guy of yours trying to save money to boost his career with out really looking at the big picture? Its worth checking out.....and anyway its his arse on the line if an incident occurrs and because of a lack of ERT response it all goes tits up!

[williamsryan]

We are a semiconductor, they make computer chips. The hate us to train and make fun of it, they are extreamly concerned about us not making a scene. They have even said stuff about us walking around on the manufactuing floor with our uniforms, it draws to much attention from the workers and they get worried and stop working. Thanks for all the input!

[redneckemt]

I'm in an automotive plant and we are a Security and Fire (EMS) company. But we're broken down into two groups. Fire Officers and Security Officers (EMT's are really both) The security officers work the gates, and the fire officers work the buildings doing inspections and minor security patrols. While the Emt's do roving security patrols, and lunchs for the security officers. If something comes up the Fire Officers respond, and the Emt breaks away from what he's doing and responds. We only have one Lt. per shift he covers both groups. Most of us are cross trained so we can work in either group. This system works great for us.

[BD6413]

I work in a Refinery. The Refinery has it's own Fire Department, Plant Protection Department, and an Emergency Response Team {ERT} consisting of both on-shift and off-shift personnel from all areas of the refinery.

We have three fire stations on the facility {Two are basically storage garages for apparatus} and one building that is an actual 3 room / 2 bay fire house where two of our front line engines and rescue truck as well as turn-out gear are housed. - Day to day office operations for the fire department are also conducted here. Our Fire Department Staff has more to do than just respond to fires. ~ They write fire / work permits, perform inspections, monitor the fire water usage in the refinery, inspect all stationary fire equipment stations, and respond to medical incidents. They also perform inspections and minor repairs to hydrants and fire supresson devices. We have over 1000 acres of refinery so they're kept busy.

Our Plant Protection Department is basically a security unit - We patrol the facility, monitor contractor compliancy, enforce traffic regulations, and respond to Emergencies with the fire department to assist as may be needed {A few of us are cross trained EMT's and Firefighters} Plant Protection is basically the refinery police department......to a point.

A contracted Security Guard Service handles our gates, visitors, ID Checks, and so forth mainly on stationary posts but we have a few "rovers" that help out plant protection with limited duty capabilities.

Enough about us........williamsryan it sounds like to me that your new manager feels having a seperate fire department in a fire station isn't justified. Is it really ? - I ask this because there's no doubt a threat of fire at a computer chip manufacturing facility with all the chemicals and labs and so forth but are you really handling 10-15 emergencies a day ? seriously. We handle maybe 10-15 emergencies a month and we manufacture Gasoline, Jet Fuel, and Home Heating Oil.......We also have 2600 contractors and 1000 plant employees working at any given time. I think you should condider justifying the need to have all the bells and whistles and lay it out for the management. Try combining the services you have {Security / Fire / Safety} into a Plant Protection Unit. This will give you more justification for all the positions where everyone employeed should be cross trained to do all the jobs.