Be careful, be smart

[josephus1975]

This is such a great message board for people looking for employment as a firefighter. Read as much as you can and know the difference between the truth and what 'they' want to hear in subsequent interviews. You have to lie but let them be ones you won't get caught telling.

[KenNFD1219]

How would you know which lie to tell and not get caught? If you tell the truth, you never have to remember the story. I'd rather hire a person who made a mistake, owned up to it and became a better person because of it than someone who would lie and not expect to get caught.

[josephus1975]

Residency. Everything on paper said I lived in the right jurisdiction. But I told the truth and was not hired. Now, am not a firefighter but there are plenty that are drug users, alcoholics, wife beaters etc and nothing is done about that.

[KenNFD1219]

I would look at it as you lied on your application and admitted it during the interview and as a result, were not hired. If you lied in the interview and got caught after you were on the job you would most likely have been fired.

Your claim that there are fire fighters that are drug users, alcoholics, wife beaters, etc is irrelevant to your application process and being truthful.

If the job requirements stated residency was a requirement, why did you not establish legal residency? It should have been easy enough to do if you wanted the job bad enough.

There is a lot of good information here on hiring procedures and processes. While some of it may be conflicting at times, no one has ever suggested it is OK to lie on an application or interview. By saying it is OK to lie, you are doing a disservice to any prospective fire fighter who reads this board seeking hiring information.

[josephus1975]

When I took the written test, everything was good. Then after a few years I was offered and accepted a job in a different city. Never occured to me that I should updated my address with an agency that never contacted me. But lo and behold, shortly after my new job started I was finally reached. Ironically, they are giving a new written test soon and their residency requirements have changed since I took it. Que sera sera.

[Peekay]

I don't think you should ever lie to get a job. Be honest, but not openly honest. Like in an interview it is probably not the best idea to give all your weaknesses, when asked that famous question. But to lie to get hired is the quickest way to get fired.

Honesty is always the best policy. :)

[BCLepore]

So, you lied and got caught. What's your point? Are you serious? For the record, I don't want to hire people who lie........Please do not apply for my department!

[JayDudley]

I agree with Chief Lepore....As an ex-background investigator for Pauls' Department and Engineer if you lied to me YOUR GONE!! PERIOD.

Respectfully,
Jay Dudley, Retired Fire

[mitllesmertz1]

Is there a difference between "lying" and "don't ask-don't tell?"
If you leave out information that may be harmful to your application process, but the info is not specifically asked for, is that ok ?
And contrary to what the saints on these boards are saying, (90% of them are selling something by the way), many firefighters have been less than honest on their entire application, and have led succesful careers.
There may be info in your past that you don't want your future employer to know about. Some info is more likely to be discovered than others.
The background investigators like to have an aura that they know everything about you that ever happened; sadly, they are grandiose, and wrong. It is very easy to conceal things in your past, including felony convictions.
I work with people every day that lied about things in their past, or were not forthcoming with the info, that would not have continued in the hiring process had the info been seen. Most are pretty nice guys.
Some of them are even Chief's.
It's a choice each candidate has to make.
But the "I don't want people that lied working for my department" is a little over the top.
Have any of you ever told a lie?

[dneptun81]

I believe that BC was referring to lying on your application.

Sure everybody stretches the truth occasionally, but answering "no I have never" to a question that that the answer should read "I have and continue to do this on a regular basis" would constitute lying and dismissal from the process. Now if you answer the question "Have you ever used narcotics?" and you haven't answer "no." If you are a pot smoker for example the answer is still "no," marijuana is not a narcotic.

I think what everybody is getting at is answer the question and only the question asked, don't divulge extra information voluntarily that is not asked for. For example: When they ask you if you have any moving violations in the last 5 years, and you have no tickets but 15 warnings, only put down that you have had no tickets, leave out the part about the warnings. Did they ask you if you had any warnings?

If you have ever had a court deposition, you should know how to answer the questions. A “yes/no” question is answered with a yes or a no nothing additional.

[mitllesmertz1]

Now if you answer the question "Have you ever used narcotics?" and you haven't answer "no." If you are a pot smoker for example the answer is still "no," marijuana is not a narcotic.
however, under the "no lying" theory, if you ever used narcotics, or if you stopped using them only a few years ago, you would have to answer that question "yes", which in many systems would drop you from the running.
I don't advocate using narcotics, but if you used to, and are done with that part of your life, I say it's none of their damn business. If you used them around people that are going to talk about it to a background checker, well that's your own fault.

I think what everybody is getting at is answer the question and only the question asked, don't divulge extra information voluntarily that is not asked for.
I agree completely, although a more saintly person might see this as being dishonest, and the investigators might find out, right?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

So, you lied and got caught. What's your point? Are you serious? For the record, I don't want to hire people who lie........Please do not apply for my department!
Some of the "advisors" here also say that lying is OK. The end justifies the means.

[BCLepore]

Mitllesmertz1,
Let me make it very clear to you that whether I am selling something or not I am a fireman JUST LIKE YOU. It amazes me that you are OK working side by side with FELONS and LIARS. WOW, where did your values get so deteriorated that this is acceptable?

Is there a difference between "lying" and "don't ask-don't tell?"

Yes, there is. Just like I tell my 12 year old daughter. Intentionally with holding information is the same as lying.

If you leave out information that may be harmful to your application process, but the info is not specifically asked for, is that ok ?And contrary to what the saints on these boards are saying, (90% of them are selling something by the way), many firefighters have been less than honest on their entire application, and have led succesful careers.

Figure this one out. If I really were looking to sell a bunch of books wouldn’t I tell everyone that your past doesn’t matter? By telling them they won’t get hired I am minimizing my potential customer base. I guess I am a poor business man. Are you really telling your potential co-workers it’s OK to lie on their application and during your background? If this is OK with you and your coworkers, please let everyone know where you work. I know a bunch of felons who would love a job in the fire service.

There may be info in your past that you don't want your future employer to know about. Some info is more likely to be discovered than others.

It’s OK to lie. What about being accountable for their actions???

The background investigators like to have an aura that they know everything about you that ever happened; sadly, they are grandiose, and wrong. It is very easy to conceal things in your past, including felony convictions.Not for a good background investigator………I work with people every day that lied about things in their past, or were not forthcoming with the info, that would not have continued in the hiring process had the info been seen. Most are pretty nice guys.Some of them are even Chief's.

Wasn’t it a chief who just got arrested for scamming FEMA out of money?It's a choice each candidate has to make.

But the "I don't want people that lied working for my department" is a little over the top.

Here’s what it amounts to. If you hire people who have made a history of lying, what makes you believe that they WILL STOP once they become firefighters? Or is it OK if they lie as firefighters? I don’t even lock my locker at the fire station. Do you? As a matter of fact, I don’t even have a key for the lock. We all trust each other. Money is never missing from the chow fund. The coke fund in the refer doesn’t lose money and nobody steals from the t-shirt fund.


Have any of you ever told a lie?

Now you really do sound like my 12-year old.

[JayDudley]

Right - on Chief...As an ex-background investigator from Chief Lepore's Department I can vouch for the trustfullness of our department. The soda fund always had more in it then was expected. I to never locked my locker and only had one thing taken out of my locker...it was from an outside the department thief. He was caught and I got back my item after it was found being sold on E-Bay. Lieing is lieing and if I found out then you were gone. Simple as that. So you can withhold information if you please ....but the B.I. if he's really good will fine out and your history.

Respectfully,
Jay Dudley, Retired Engineer

[josephus1975]

Ok. I never ever lied on my application to take the written test. Took a new job and left the area. First told them of my new residency Oct/Nov time period when they contacted me. 2 months AFTER THAT I took the physical agility test. Continued the hiring process until recently. Why wait almost half a year (waste their own time and money) then finally tell me sorry charlie?!

[mitllesmertz1]

Mitllesmertz1,
Let me make it very clear to you that whether I am selling something or not I am a fireman JUST LIKE YOU. It amazes me that you are OK working side by side with FELONS and LIARS.
So if a fireman on the job for 10 years gets arrested for assault, or DUI, or shoplifting, he should be fired IMMEDIATELY, right sir? You wouldn't dare work with a coworker that was such an obvious threat to your safety, right? Or is it just people that haven't been hired that are despicable for their transgressions?

WOW, where did your values get so deteriorated that this is acceptable? Nah, my values are just fine, but the hypocrisy of the fire service is a little entertaining.

Yes, there is. Just like I tell my 12 year old daughter. Intentionally with holding information is the same as lying.
Sir, I would think that in your view, deliberately withholding damaging info would be just as bad as lying. So you condone deception, but LIARS!!! or FELONS!!! are true sinners and should burn in hell?


Are you really telling your potential co-workers it’s OK to lie on their application and during your background? If this is OK with you and your coworkers, please let everyone know where you work. I know a bunch of felons who would love a job in the fire service.
Depends what they are lying about, sir. Some information I personally feel has nothing to do with your ability to be a good worker, get along with others, and serve the public.
And again, their are firefighters charged and convicted of crimes daily that are still on the job. Double standard?

Here’s what it amounts to. If you hire people who have made a history of lying, what makes you believe that they WILL STOP once they become firefighters? Or is it OK if they lie as firefighters? I don’t even lock my locker at the fire station. Do you? As a matter of fact, I don’t even have a key for the lock. We all trust each other. Money is never missing from the chow fund. The coke fund in the refer doesn’t lose money and nobody steals from the t-shirt fund. Wow, imagine that, we do the same thing. My locker is about 100 years old, it's never had a lock. But I still know people on the job that lied on their apps. Wierd, huh?


Have any of you ever told a lie?

Now you really do sound like my 12-year old.
So your 12 year old recognizes the hypocrisy too? Smart girl!

[dneptun81]

I smell something.... oh there it is, a nice and stinky dead horse. Does anyone have a bat?

[BCLepore]

I see that we are way off on this one. I ask again that you post the name of a department where these things don't matter. There are plenty of people who would never pass a background check to work at K-mart but would love the opportunity to be a firefighter. Please steer them in the right direction.

Stay safe Brother!

[mitllesmertz1]

Hey, I know lot's of guys that used to work at KMart!
Bottom line for me, if we have anyone on the job that has been arrested, saying that you don't want to work with LIARS or FELONS is pure hypocrisy.

But I do wish you well sir.

[JayDudley]

I have an old aluminium bat we can use on this dead horse!!
Dud