In floor hot water heat for an apparatus bay

[FyredUp]

Okay I hope this time this will let me post....

I am a member of the committee planning for a new firehouse and I suggested we use in floor hot water heat for the apparatus bay area. Apparently no one that we know of has done this in our area and the Chief in charge of the committee has never heard of it being done.

I see it as a way to keep the lower area of the bay where we are actually working at warmer, a quicker way to thaw the rigs after a winter run, and mostly a more efficient way to heat the bay.

Has anyone out there done this? Have you had any issues with it? Do you like it? Would you do it again? And any lessons learned? Let your opinions fly, if I find it is unworkable I will withdraw my suggestion.

Thanks,

FyredUp

[pems17]

Go for it, floor dries right away and warm to work on in the winter. Works with a glycol fluid pumped through numerous lines in the floor. The fluid is heated by a boiler. Awesome system

[sublimecharger6]

I think that would be a great way to heat the Apparatus bay,

I have no pratical knowledge but am interested in the opinions that will be coming forth on this idea.

sublime out.

[skvfd5]

We did this to our new addition approx 12 years ago, wish we could do it to the other bays.

One thing to remember is to keep the roto hammer away from anyone that wants to put anchor bolts in the floor at alater time. Can really make a mess.

[HFRH28]

Don't do just the bays, do the whole building. (but have seperate controls for each) The newer broilers are so efficient it will be worth it. It's very logical - heat rises! You just may have to have the pipes planted a little bit deeper in the bay area, but go for it. All of them i have ever seen have been trouble-free for the most part and worked excellent.

[TKenney242]

We have had it for the past ten years, thermostats are 5 feet from floor fixed at 66 degrees, keeps floor and below five feet warmer. Re heats after bay doors open, Also have front pad heated, sensor detects temp & pad moisture before turning on, works great with regular snow fall, very slow in blizzard conditions but it does work. Size of bays 50 to 65 feet deep X 7 bays wide, Front pad 7 bays wide X 80 feet.

[pfd4life]

Just make sure it stays leak free, if not the water engineer for the city may come knocking

[FyredUp]

Thanks for the responses.

Has anyone that has installed this EVER had to tear up the floor to make a repair? Has anyone EVER had a leak in the piping buried in the floor?

Do those of you that have this type of heat have an auxiliary heater, like a Modine, to make up for rapid heat loss when the doors are opened in the winter?

Now biggest question of all...Are the powers that be staisfied that the initial cost has been offset by savings in heating costs?

If anyone has a brand name of their system installed please post it so I can do research.

Again, thanks for the help.

FyredUp

[Weruj1]

HUH ..............how cool would this be >?

[nmfire]

I can't offer personal experience with heated floors, but I can share my experience with the alternatives:

Baseboard perimiter heat. It takes about 3 days to heat up a large apparatus bay from 50 to 65. Forget opening the doors. It just isn't efficient in a giant open space with huge leaky overhead doors.

Blowers. You get a rush of hot air that doesn't spread out evenly. You end up with one corner of the bay at 130 degrees and the middle is still 40. If the trucks are in the bay, they hamper air flow. Also horribly inefficient to use a a sole source of heat.

So, that leaves heating the floor. Sounds like a good option to me.

[BFDLT32]

We have had it for the past ten years, thermostats are 5 feet from floor fixed at 66 degrees, keeps floor and below five feet warmer. Re heats after bay doors open, Also have front pad heated, sensor detects temp & pad moisture before turning on, works great with regular snow fall, very slow in blizzard conditions but it does work. Size of bays 50 to 65 feet deep X 7 bays wide, Front pad 7 bays wide X 80 feet.

We do not have them in the bay area but TKenney242 beat me to it about the front pad. I wish we had this installed during some of our ice storms.

[hwoods]

Our Station prior to the one we have now has in-floor heat. Another station nearby that I'm familiar with HAD in-floor heat. Our former station is built on a "Floating" slab. The concrete floor is very stable, and doesn't have a lot of cracks. It was built in 1962 and has been OK ever since. Our neighbors built their station in 1972, and by 2000 they had to abandon the Floor heating system and install overhead space heaters. The station was built on Filled ground and settlement over time caused the slab to crack. Those cracks stressed the copper tubing till it failed and leaked. I love floor heat, but it must be done on a stable base or you lose it down the road.

[FyredUp]

I believe that in floor heat installations these days use a plastic pipe instead of copper. I don't know if it is any more forgiving than copper.

I agree that everything I have heard is that the slab must be stable or problemns will arise.

Please keep the comments coming.

Thanks,

FyredUp

[Bowbreaker]

FyredUp, Talk to heating contractors in your area. There should be several in your area that have installed in-floor heat, it is really common in most cold area of the country.

In-floor radiant heat is the only way to go. If it is installed properly it will last for as long as the building stands. We have it in the bay area of our fire hall, heated with a water main to water main heat pump (geothermo). Our power company's engineer measured the air temp from the floor to the peak of the ceiling at 21 ft and said there is very little difference from floor to ceiling unlike conventionally heated areas.

If I ever can aford to build a new house it will have in-floor heat in the entire structure:garage, basement, kitchen, bathrooms, bedrooms, every room on every level. You can put it under any floor surface, not just concrete. It is the best heat available at any cost if done right.

Brad

[jimbren]

Excellent system, works great. 1 warning, carefully layout your floor plan especially drains ahead of time. Once the floor is done your not going to be able to add any thing into the floor afterward. We didn't put in enough drains and were stuck with that. Beside that it is still the way to go.

[ChiefDog]

Be careful on this one. My Village owns the power company and when the building was built in the late 70's they were going to "dump" their off peak power into the floor heat grid. It was buried in sand and that kept the slab warm. It had fast recovery overhead heaters. Turned out the power company could not afford it anymore and put natural gas radiant overhead heaters. Much better all around.

I am not sure if the newer tires will have this issue but when we had electric floor heat the loaded trucks got flat spots where the tires contacted the warm floor. (had to sit for a few days) Since we switched to overhead heat the older truck has not "bounced."

You will also need to make sure you wash the underside of the trucks in an area that uses winter road salt. The floor heat "could" cause issues with anything underneath that doesn't get the road film off it. Steel, road salt, moisture and heat will do damage. An don't think your aluminum or stainless steel bodied truck will not have issues. Many parts on the chassis will rust if it is not painted / sealed and then maintained as such.

[Jim917]

Here is a board devoted to Radiant Heating. Lots of great information here. (http://radnet.groupee.net/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/4771065301)

[captain407]

If you have the money for the system it is worth every dollor. We have put this system in the whole station works good and cuts on energy costs. The other nice thing is when you have wet gear the in floor heating drys it out faily quick. The system costs abit more to start off but pays for itself in the long run.

[FyredUp]

ChiefDog...

Was that an electric in floor grid? What I am talking about is a hot water grid. Heck, no one could afford electric in floor heat on that massive of a scale these days!

JimBren...

Good point on the once it is in, no changes to the floor.

Captian407...

That is what I need a personal experience saying it paid off in the long run.


Thanks everyone and PLEASE if more people have comments keep them coming.

FyredUp

[markrojek]

I am a contractor and have done a variety of high end homes and everyone loves the radiant floor heat. A couple of comments though:

Be sure you lay out your underground plumbing and if you have to leave stubs for future work, you don't want to tear out the system.

Don't use the red plastic tubing (not sure the brand right now). Have heard of failures with the product.

Have the contractor provide a detailed as-built diagram and pictures before the floor is poured for future additions/repairs.

If for some reason you do have a leak, its kind of expensive to have a technician come out. But real interesting the equipment they use very similar to the thermal imaging equipment we use.

Other than those comments, great idea and very efficient way to heat the whole building.

[ChiefDog]

ChiefDog...

Was that an electric in floor grid? What I am talking about is a hot water grid. Heck, no one could afford electric in floor heat on that massive of a scale these days!

JimBren...

Good point on the once it is in, no changes to the floor.

Captian407...

That is what I need a personal experience saying it paid off in the long run.


Thanks everyone and PLEASE if more people have comments keep them coming.

FyredUp

Yes, it was an electric grid in sand under the cement slab. The theory was that the hydro plant was running anyway they could heat up the radiant with the off-peak (lower demand) power at night.

My biggest concern with the in floor heat is what I am having to deal with now on the trucks 20 years later. We are a small department and can't get new trucks when ever we want so they have to last. We had to have a power steering hose with a metal fitting on it replaced due to corrosion. Other items had similar issues. We religiously have rinsed and or washed the trucks after every call to get the crap off them in the winter. (top and bottom) Having the salt and crap get up on all the running gear with the floor heat did not help. It did help with thawing out frozen or iced up parts.

My point is that nothing is perfect there are trade offs. What works great in a home may not in a station. I agree that there are a lot of positives :D to the floor heat but there could be negatives :eek: too.

[pfd4life]

FyredUp, just FYI, in the Racine Fire Dept, they have in floor heating in one fo their stations. It just happened to begin leaking, approx 400,000+ gallons were wasted over a fairly short time period due to the leak. You would have to tear up the floor to fix obviously. We have natural gas radiant heat above our bays, works wel and has been there for quite some time. Once it gets warm, it doesn't take much to keep warm.

[FHandz15]

FyredUp, just FYI, in the Racine Fire Dept, they have in floor heating in one fo their stations. It just happened to begin leaking, approx 400,000+ gallons were wasted over a fairly short time period due to the leak. You would have to tear up the floor to fix obviously. We have natural gas radiant heat above our bays, works wel and has been there for quite some time. Once it gets warm, it doesn't take much to keep warm.

We had the same problem. Our #3 house had in floor radiant heat for the whole building built in the 1960's. However, as soon as it shoots craps, the city of course decided to abandon it and install forced heat inside and natural gas radiant heat above our trucks because it was cheaper. Works OK for us.

The older guys said it was nice to hop out of bed and have the floor be toasty warm.