Kuwait FF Openings

[devildog4]

Contract Firefighters in Kuwait
Seeking 80 Firefighters and some Paramedics

Experience as a military or DoD civilian firefighter
Crash rescue training/experience involving military aircraft
Structural fire fighting
Understanding of military jargon, culture
Mid East experience preferred
Minimum certifications: (DoD/IFSAC/Pro-Board) Firefighter II and Airport Firefighter. Higher levels of certification may qualify candidates for more senior positions; National Registry Paramedic
Unaccompanied
May be assigned to one of 11 fire departments at US bases supporting US operations

Seeking Seasoned Fire Chief

Seasoned and experienced DoD fire chief to oversee the 11 fire departments
Will Hire second level of management
DoD/IFSAC/Pro-Board Certified at Fire Officer IV, HAZMAT-IC, Fire Instructor II, Fire Inspector II
Accompanied (some restrictions) - all other positions are unaccompanied

To apply for these positions, email your resume to Mr. George Forbes at
george.forbes@alliedarms.com

[jlbone25]

This is probably just a feeler to gain a pool of applicants. The new contract has not been awarded for Kuwait yet.

[Paul1gk]

Hey Fellows, I was offered a FF position in Kuwiat, I have read numurous threads (days worth) about WSI in Iraq. I know that it is a different company from mine and with a different pay scale. But I was curious if anyone out there has done a contract in Kuwiat or has constructive opinons (good or bad) about Kuwiat. Please explain as well as you can or feel like. I hope to get more than "It rules" or "It sucks". Also, I am a firm believer in life is what you make of it, but it would be nice to hear from others.

[galebagram2u]

What company are you working for in Kuwait and that can tell what kind of time you are going to have..

Chris

[Paul1gk]

It is CSA out of Kuwiat

[galebagram2u]

You are working for a relatively good company. It is true that your pay is lower, but the living conditions are a lot better. From my understanding, personnel are housed at the apartment complex. You share the apartment with other guys.

I have heard that CSA has some retention problems in the past, but that is expected. Think about it. you make less than what a fire fighter in Iraq makes, so people leave to go to Iraq.. Keep in mind though, there is a lot less hostility in Kuwait than Iraq, so that is a selling point.

From my understanding the chief there is an ex-marine ARFF guy. He is recognized by several colleagues as a rsponsible chief and will work for his people..

Last thing to keep in the back of your mind. There is a big contract shift going on right now which may impact Kuwait, Qatar other non-Iraq sites. It is a consolidation move for the fire department. Details should be out sometime next month who is affected.

hope this helps..

[overseasfire]

Chris,
Do you work with Tony Hambone? You worked at Kwaj right. I was On Roi 96-98. Did the Johnston gig May-Sept 2003, Kuwait 2003, Pentagon 2002, Hungary 98-99 , Iraq Since May 2004. WSI seems to be the best company yet, KBR Hungary was very close. Look out CSA, WSI Is out to,Get ya.

[galebagram2u]

Chris,
Do you work with Tony Hambone? You worked at Kwaj right. I was On Roi 96-98. Did the Johnston gig May-Sept 2003, Kuwait 2003, Pentagon 2002, Hungary 98-99 , Iraq Since May 2004. WSI seems to be the best company yet, KBR Hungary was very close. Look out CSA, WSI Is out to,Get ya.

Yes I worked at Kwaj from 90 - 95, then made the south pacific tour.. Went to the middle east and Afghanistan, and am now working in Saudi. I have two offers on the table to work for either WSI or KBR as fire chief somewhere in the middle east. Most likely I will take KBR as I did the fire department start-up at Kandahar am very familiar with thier system.

As for Tony Hambone, no I have never worked with him, or at least I do not recall...

Sorry to hear about the Hungary operation closing down.. I had a bunch of people come from there to work with me Ecuador a few years back and now they are all in the sandbox fdoing their thing..

Chris

[overseasfire]

I remember where I know you from, John from Thailand, He talked about you
He is in Kuwait working for CSA now.He is a Great guy, he said good things about you. What do you know about the consolidation program. Email me at nouwandaa@yahoo.com

Thanks

[galebagram2u]

Check your email...

[Paul1gk]

Chris, Thanks for the info., it is pretty much what I thought, I am pretty much a go for next month. If you have any other useful info or heads up please keep me in mind. If you know any more about the merger, please e-mail me at Paul1gk@hotmail.com, Chief McDonnell seemed to be up front about it with the talk I had, but if you got some more light to shed on it, or your opinion on it, please send me a line.

[armyfiremn]

paul
i also applied with CSA do you have any contact info other then the fax number on the company's website? i'd like to talk to someone but haven't seen any way to do it.
thanks
ed

[armyfiremn]

just letting everyone know i was also out at roi from may of 04 to may of 05. i applied to vinnell, kbr, wsi and csa. what's the better company?? i know the starting pay for wsi is 90 a year, what about the others??

[garypoe4454]

Hi AF
I Can only share with you my thoughts on working for WSI and Vinnell.

Vinnell:
I was part of the start up at Eskan KSA in 01 for Vinnell. We had a great Chief and so really good people. A full ¾ of us were on our first contract and the adjustment was hard.
The 24 on 24 off took some getting use to, the pay was straight forward 50K no lies there, vacation hrs were earned and a good schedule of leave slots was set up. They had shift cars so we could go to Riyadh to but TV, Gold, go to parties. The 1st Asst F/C made sure we had good living conditions on the compound.
I left shortly before the bombing of the compound so I do not know how free movement is. All but 1 man has moved on. Pay is up some, still have to get the anthrax shots.
As with Contract Firefighting management is the key, with no Union to protect you …well you know.
WSI
I was on the first plane into Balad on 4/7/04. we had no rules or regulations, no mission, no transport, no nothing. We were to be the “Advance Teem” we were to do setup work but some of Midlevel management (the asst FC) was a straw boss, we were worrying about busy work not set up. He would “pick on” a different member every day and just F with people. That pattern has prevailed at some locations. Some personnel just want to get paid some are their for God & Country, the 2 do not mix well.
Rick Tye the PGM is a great guy, pay is usually right, R&R is for the most part not a problem, living conditions were tent and cots when I left in march 05, Fire Stations were starting to be constructed. KBR and R. Tye laid out 3 basic but nice Station prototypes.
As with any start up and DOD in general, Fire Prevention was the big thing.
Vinnell and WSI most of our first year was pulling together pre plans, extinguishers, and smoke detectors.
Some locations are running calls some are just sitting around.
Gear
Vinnell
The 1st asst f/c tried to have things started for us so gear was off the shelf and would only take a few weeks to arrive and for the most part things worked out well. Vinnell procurement program was to say the least bulky with 5 or 6 levels so a mountain of paperwork was generated. EX; to order a box of pencils you need to do a request form then for a highlighter you did another, so if you needed 24 items you needed 24 requests.
WSI
It took me 100 days to get my gear it was good stuff and sized just right. Some people I know were in Country for 6 months with no gear. The rule was “share gear … including boots and helmets.”
In conclusion all contract fire depts. are basically the same if you are working for good people you time will be enjoyable if not the year will drag on for ever.
The best of luck to you.

[overseasfire]

Gary,
Great evaluation of each program, you missed 2 important pieces of the
puzzle. 1: the start up you did for vinnell was 20 personnell if I am not mistaken, The start up for the first year for WSI is over 20 times larger.

2: in the Vinnell contract Vinnell was the prime contractor,
in the WSI contract KBR is the prime contractor and everything must be
approved by the prime contractor and then they do the ordering.

This is my 4th startup with 4 companies, I am truly impressed that WSI
was able to pull this off, KBR could not have done it, if they thought they
could have they would have. I know this to be true because they could not get anyone to come here in 03, they asked for volunteers and less than 20 of their FF's came. WSI did the almost impossible and did a excellent job doing it. I came over in May 04, I know who you are talking about, I believe
if that person was in a higher management position none of us would be here today, WSI would have lost the contract for 1 person, he set the attitude
for Balad and you know what happened there. The job gets easier everyday
and I am glad I came back for a second year.
I tell everyone startups are the hardest job to do in the fire service and they are not for every one.

I have worked for 6 companies as a contractor in the last 10 years, I know alot of people including the people you worked with, they were top notch
there are a lot of top notch folks working for WSI and 99.9% have never done a contract before, I believe WSI will only get stronger and better with this under their belt, but only time will tell.

Hungary was by far the best contract I ever worked on (wonderful People The Hungarians)and this one is right behind it, the challenges here are very rewarding

Take care brother, hope you get back into contracting

[FyredUp]

garypoe4454

I have a few questions as I havepondered this contract firefighter thing...

My background is as follows: I am a DoD IFSAC Certified ARFF Firefighter and ARFF Operator, and Structural Firefighter and Apparatus Driver/Operator. As well as 7 years as an ARFF firefighter on a ANG base and 7 years as a career firefighter in a medium sized city. I am an EMT, a Wisconsin State Fire Service Instructor, and was Trained by the military as a Level A Haz-Mat instructor.

Okay now the questions...and these aren't attacks, just questions to see if this is worth the time of serious consideration.


The 24 on 24 off took some getting use to Is this a 72 hour work week or like the California schedule?, the pay was straight forward 50K no lies there 50K? For what level of training? Or is this the beginning level of pay for all firefighters? If it is, there is no financial benefit for me to leave my current FD., vacation hrs were earned How much after how long on the job?and a good schedule of leave slots was set up. They had shift cars so we could go to Riyadh to but TV, Gold, go to parties. The 1st Asst F/C made sure we had good living conditions on the compound. Sounds like at least you had a very good officer watching out for you.


It took me 100 days to get my gear it was good stuff and sized just right. Some people I know were in Country for 6 months with no gear. The rule was “share gear … including boots and helmets.” No gear for 6 months? Sharing gear...I guess it is clear that NFPA and other regulatory safety rules for the most part get tossed out the window once you aren't in the US anymore. Would that be a correct assumption or am I missing something?

In conclusion all contract fire depts. are basically the same if you are working for good people you time will be enjoyable if not the year will drag on for ever.
Hmmmm...I guess you could say the same for any job couldn't you? But in this case you are away from home and family for a year. I understand the military culture, I understand ******* officers, but I also know when I dealt with that at the end of the day I went home and had time away to regroup before my next day with it. How do you escape that type of nonsense there?

LOL...I think I just did a pretty good job of talking myself out of it. BUT...That does not diminish my respect for those of you who choose to fight fire protecting people in those dangerous parts of the world. If what I have stated is wrong or exagerated let me know.

Thanks,

FyredUp

[galebagram2u]

Fyrdup,

You ask some really good questions and your concerns are valid. Especially sharing of gear and meeting NFPA requirements.

Here is some insight on contract fire protection. First, get the concept of contrat fire protection overseas is like working the states. Even if you heve worked for civillian or military departments, it is different. The one advantage for fire fighters is, when working a military contract, there is a much higher standard that needs to be attained. More so on Air Force contracts. As you are aware, AF has to follow AFI32-2001 et. al. This means compliance on NFPA is a must, especially on NFPA 1500.

The contractor is evaluated on the scope of performance by the military, and depending on the QAE/DCMA/ACO, it can be a good thing or bad. A lot will have to do with the working relationship between the chief and military.

Now here is an important thing to remember. When the Iraq issue started, there was a requirement for an excess of 2500 fire fighters to fill in 3 major countries. There was a lot action going on. There were equipment issue, vehicle purchases to replace WRM material, turn-outs, station construction and the like. The vendors were not able to keep up with the supply demand. Vehicle orders were taking up to 1.5 years to receive. Everyone in the loop was and still are trying to get the needed equipment. Keeping in mind that vendors are also supplying the US fire departments as well.

Getting back to meeting NFPA requirements. Each fire department is required to follow NFPA guidelines in addition to the military requirements. It creates a fine line sometimes as to what is a priority. If you are at a base with a flying mission, life is much easier as the AF push for fire protection. At non-flying bases, the battle may be a little harder, especially in Iraq as the main focus is the conflict and not fire protection for some commanders.

All in all, all companies involved with fire protection contracts have done what it takes to make the mission successful. Some start-ups were easier than others. The hard start-ups were when the military wanted out quickly without meeting the TOA requirement.

Working contract is a great career choice. Some places will have a greater call volume than others, and with you being ANG, should know this if you were to different bases.

Lastly, the key success to a great fire department is the leadership team. This starts from the Fire Chief on down. If you have a team that is busy work driven, then there are going to be huge problems. Case in point, I had an A/C that wanted vehicles washed every day. Why??? we lived in the desert. My station was having a morale issue over this. I got rid of the A/C.. There is work to be done. Personnel should be involved in it. This ranges from contract starts to program development. If your department gets into busy work, then you got the bad draw of the straw. Seek a transfer when possible.

I hope this helps a little. All to often I read these threads and people are disgruntled at times by the way things are occuring. Keep in mind this is a major contract. Wait until LOGCAP IV and AFCAP 3 come out. You want to see mass confusion in the making.

Chris

[overseasfire]

No gear and sharing gear,

I will look up the specifics of sharing gear in NFPA but, with WSI
we were not required to share gear we chose to do it so we could
get up and running and if you decided not to share there was no reprecussions.

If you did not have correct PPE you did not respond to emergencies.

[galebagram2u]

No gear and sharing gear,

I will look up the specifics of sharing gear in NFPA but, with WSI
we were not required to share gear we chose to do it so we could
get up and running and if you decided not to share there was no reprecussions.

If you did not have correct PPE you did not respond to emergencies.

Sharing of equipment is pretty much covered under NFPA 1500. The main emphasis is regarding SCBA masks.

My thought is this. If I have staffing to meet minimum manning (assume 17 per shift) and I have 20 sets of turn-outs, then go for broke and share the turn-outs for the time being. Wash-out SCBA masks at the start of each shift.

This may turn a few stomachs, but follow along. Let us say 17 guys are working 12 hour shifts because they have turn-outs. By sharing the gear, the chief can show capability and create 2 24-hour shifts. Thusly allowing everyone to work and get the full 84 hours as desired.

The big issue is the personal hygiene. Joe Bob sitting yonder has enough funk on him to kill a horse. I do not want to wear his stuff. Applying a little peer pressure may help, or redirecting Joe Bob' career choice always proved to be a stimulator.

Please understand that I am not an advocate of sharing gear. But consider the situation that you are in. What are you willing to do make the department more functional in the interim..

[RickMo]

I was in Kuwait and then Iraq with KBR.Dont get your hopes up.

[TonyHambone]

Hey, I friend of mine came across my name, this is Tony Hambone. Who's on the look-out?

[TonyHambone]

galebragram2u, this is Tony Hambone. Who's on the look-out for me? A fellow firefighter informed me that my name was mentioned in this forum so I had to find out, what gives?

[galebagram2u]

galebragram2u, this is Tony Hambone. Who's on the look-out for me? A fellow firefighter informed me that my name was mentioned in this forum so I had to find out, what gives?

Tony, Chuck is looking for you. here is the email address

nouwandaa@yahoo.com

I hope you two find each other in time..

Chris

[garypoe4454]

Does anyone know a phone number (not the FAX #) for CSA???
I have sent emails but have gotten no answer
gpl

[armyfiremn]

gary
email me and i'll get you the numbers. here's some info i just got for csa and might help some of you decide if you want a job with them. this is for a firefighter position. $16.73 hour $41,758 annual base pay on 48 hours/week (overtime not included) $12,775 foreign area living allowance (annualized) $2,987 service terminal indemnity at completion of contract $820 mid term r&r airfare (after 6 months service) they fly you to frankfurt. $175 mobilization pay (arrival money) which equals out to about $58,515 total take home pay again no overtime

plus company paid employee medical, dental, life (family extra)
transportation (gas, maintenance, & insurance) provided by the company you share the vehicle with other firefighters
fully furnished housing (your living in a apartment with either one other or two other guys)
6+ weeks paid time off
many other benefits (what ever that means)
the company figures an additional $14,629
for a total of $73,144 a year

[Ozzy69FF]

G'day from Australia, just trying to find out how things are going with all the contracts overseas. Am an Ex-pat American (Seppo as we are called here) from the USAF that came over in '99 to Oz. Joined the Australian Army 5 years ago and am looking at options for when I decide to get out. Have heard alot about WSI and CSA just trying to find out the difference in the companies and if they would let us actually use our own gear. Have had mine ever since being a volly in PA and don't really want to stop wearing it. Also if anyone has any helpful hints on the hiring process they would be invaluable to me as I would have to fly from Oz back to the states to do this interview b/s. Am still a American Citizen (we're allowed to hold dual citizenship here in the ADF) so that isn't a problem and have been a firefighter in both Australia and the States. Again any hints are helpful and thanks to all who reply. My e-mail is mark.oswald@defence.gov.au. Yes and defence is how it is spelled here (trying to teach these damn aussies how to speak and spell like us!).

[devildog4]

You were on Roi from 04 -05?

[galebagram2u]

I was there on kwaj from 90 - 95....

Chris

[armyfiremn]

hey chris
how's the training situation over in iraq? i want to get my ff officer and instructor 2's and 3's and my haz mat i c. i should be leaving for iraq jan 9th.

[galebagram2u]

I do not know right now how the training is going for senior certs. I am not in Iraq right now. I am over in Saudi getting ready to go over there. I was slotted for mid December but I have to roll that back to the first of January. I have been offered a tentative fire chief slot at one of the sites.

When I get there, I will get everything set up for the station to work on cert levels. We had a great program over at Kandahar and Ecuador, so I should not perform anything less.

Chris

[devildog4]

chris:
I remember you. Email or pm me or whatever it is. Who is armyfiremn?

[armyfiremn]

armyfiremn is ed he was on roi between may of 04 and may of 05 he is supposed to be leaving for iraq jan 9th and why i'm talking about myself in the third person i'll never know. anything else you want to know just ask

[devildog4]

Good luck in Iraq and keep your head down!

[armyfiremn]

damn 5 years well it was paradise but 5 years? i didn't mind doing 1 but the money stinks. are you in iraq now?? if i could i'd rather get on with csa for kuwait or vinnell for saudi but vinnell isn't hiring until the 1st of the year. don't think i'm going to like working 12 to 16 hour days 6 or 7 days a week with no break from everyone. what happened to having a day off to do what ever you wanted?

[devildog4]

Our guy here on the forum overseasfire left and went to Hungry. I was trying to get on there as well as Bosnia. No luck. Then I found out about Eucador and Andros. No luck there either. Then Saudi was big, the Kuwait.



I wish I knew about ths contract FF stuff 30 years ago!

[armyfiremn]

if i could i would get back to ft lewis but as it is i'm stuck here in vegas twittling my thumbs until i can get on with a federal dept. thought i'd head overseas again for a year to make some cash before i actually have to settle down.

[galebagram2u]

Army,

why are you going back to fed service. With AFCAP III being awarded to CH2M Hill and KBR, there are going to be some great opportunities out there in the world. The best thing will be the chance to travel to other countries outside the war zone.

Hang in there for about a year for the contract to develop and then decide if you want to go back to fed service. I was tempted before to go back and then I decided contract was the only to go as there are a lot more opportunities for advancement.

Chief Gale

[armyfiremn]

chief i'm a army brat so you can say i been there done that when it comes to traveling. i don't mind going back and visiting europe but i'm thinking about retirement and having a steady job. not knocking the guys that go from contract to contract but at this time i don't think that's for me. almost forgot if new departments open up in say europe or somewhere other then the middle east how easy would it be to switch contracts? still don't like the idea at all of working 12 to 16 hour days 6 to 7 days a week without the chance to get away from everyone and relax.