Vehicle Fires, HELP

[LeeJunkins]

I am working on a report that deals with the dangers of the new automotive technologies we face today in fire. I need replies from any one that has actually had one of the new polyurethane gas tanks to melt in a fire. Also any extraordinary air bag deployments, such as housing blowing out or gas cylinders exploding.

[CaptainGonzo]

There is a series of photos somewhere here on FH.com that shows a flaming magnesium/water reaction in a car fire. The car was a Daimler Chrysler product.. apparently there is magnesium in the steering column assembly... something to think about.

Ford trucks have hoods made out of aluminum.. a good engine compartment fire will self vent when the aluminum melts. The Audi A8 and most exotics cars(Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, et al) are made of aluminum, carbon fiber or both.

Saturns, the first generation Pontiac Transport/Olds Silhouette/Chevy Lumina APV and the Pontiac Fiero are plastic bodied. A fire in a Fiero was the first car fire I had that required a hydrant!

A Connecticut firefighter had an exploding gas strut from a vehicle hatch go right through his thigh. There are photos of it somewhere on FH.Com

We have to remember that a car fire is considered a total loss by the insurance company, so unless the car is threatening life or an exposure.. hit it hard from a distance and soak the living crap out of it!

Everybody goes home!

[MG3610]

Car fire a few months back... we were pulling up and had just laid out the line....all of a sudden BOOM. I looked back from where I was at the pump panel to see air bag fragments fluttering down from the sky. It was quite awe inspiring. I'd say the pieces blew about 25 feet in the air. I can't remember if they flew up thru a sunroof or the burned out windshield. The fire was in the passenger compartment of a newer model minivan. It started under the dash and consumed the interior. Tnankfully none of the guys were that close yet. Best way to handle these fires is a straight stream from a distance til its all darkened down and cooled off.

[Skwerl530]

We also had a gas strut blow on us a couple of weeks ago. Luckily no one was hurt. One end of it was last seen flying over the power lines 20 feet overhead.

I was able to keep the lower end of the strut that stayed attached to the car. I will post pics in a few days.

[Skwerl530]

We have to remember that a car fire is considered a total loss by the insurance company, so unless the car is threatening life or an exposure.. hit it hard from a distance and soak the living crap out of it!

Everybody goes home!

BTW that was the exact tactic we were using at the time...

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks, and keep them coming. I need as many incidents as possible. I just heard about the mag steering colume a few days ago, I am working on getting more info on them. I well post anything I get, so every one well know.

[HFRH28]

There is a series of photos somewhere here on FH.com that shows a flaming magnesium/water reaction in a car fire. The car was a Daimler Chrysler product.. apparently there is magnesium in the steering column assembly... something to think about.

Mention and you shall recieve. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=45&id=37479

[mdoddsjffhnfc]

man, that must have scared the crap outta the guy caught in that one.

[LACAPT]

Had a plastic gas tank on a Ford Aerostar Van give away about 15 sec. after I arrived on scene. Of course I was command that weekend so all I had was a 1/2 ton with a 10# ABC in the back :eek: Pucker factor told me to wait until the boys in the big red truck with the copious amounts of wet stuff arrived.
We arrived on scene a few years back to a Volvo sedan on fire. Pulled past the vehicle about 20 yards off its rear quarter, upwind, and we just stepped off the rig to pull a couple of lines when, BOOM, the front bumper let loose. After the fire was out we measured the distance the bumper flew. Left side went 127' the right side 121' it split in half just as it blew.
We have had numerous hood struts go through the hood of Fords in the last couple of years, gives you a whole new respect for hydraulics under heat pressure :eek:

[vfdguy]

Ford trucks have hoods made out of aluminum..

So that explains it! Pulled up on a 2004 Ford truck on fire a couple weeks ago (only my 2nd vehicle fire, btw) and the hood was completely gone. The bolts were still in the hinge, so I knew it hadn't been removed, but I just couldn't imagine that it had melted off.

None of the guys on the run owns a Ford vehicle, we drive trucks with real STEEL, so we didn't know they used aluminum.

[arhaney]

Here is a NIOSH report that we should all read and learn from:

First, a summary:

On August 8, 1999, three volunteer fire fighters were burned, one (the victim) critically, while trying to control a Recreational Vehicle (RV) fire beside a single-family dwelling. The victim died 8 days later due to full thickness burns (third degree) over 96% of his body. Two volunteer fire departments responded to this incident: Volunteer Fire Department #1 (VFD #1) with Engine 1, staffed by a driver/operator; and Volunteer Fire Department #2 (VFD #2) with Engine 2, staffed by a driver/operator and one fire fighter (the victim) who rode as the passenger in the cab of Engine 2. Another fire fighter from VFD #2 responded to the scene in a privately owned vehicle (POV). Engine 1 arrived on the scene and was positioned in the driveway of the dwelling. The driver/operator used the booster line to protect the exposed side of the dwelling and then tried to control the RV fire. Engine 2 arrived less than 5 minutes later and also took a position in the driveway. While fire fighters from Engine 2 attempted to place in service the pre-connected 1½-inch attack line from the rear hose bed of the apparatus, the RV’s gasoline tank ruptured, releasing about 50 gallons of gasoline. The gasoline ignited, and the burning fuel spilled down the inclined driveway. All three members of VFD #2 suffered thermal injuries. None of the fire fighters were using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) or wearing protective clothing at the time the gasoline tank ruptured. NIOSH investigators conclude that, to minimize the risk of similar occurrences, fire departments should


The full report can be read at:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face9934.html

Again, I urge everyone to take time and read this report, and then use it!

[arhaney]

This says it all to me:

None of the fire fighters were using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) or wearing protective clothing at the time the gasoline tank ruptured.

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks for the replies I need all I can Get, I have put a class together over the last 1 1/2 years I have tryed to cover every danger we face in a vehicle fire. Air bags, Compressed Gas canisters,Plastic gas tanks,gas struts,magnizium,aluminum ford hoods,hazardest contents in trunk,bump struts,front end struts,drive shifts, I cover all of them in detail. But if you see something I do not have listed let me know. and keep the stories coming.

[hwoods]

I have a 1995 Dodge 1500 Pickup. My Fuel Pump is located INSIDE the Fuel Tank. I have been on one call where a Truck identical to mine had a Fire in the fuel pump and the Neck of the fuel tank had burned off. It doesn't make sense to me, since the tank was 1/2 full of gas, and no air to support combustion. And yes, I have a Plastic Tank.

Alan, Thanks for posting the info on the RV Fire. We use full PPE on ALL Fires, until the OIC feels that it is safe to dispense with any of it. (Take off coats in hot weather, etc) We responded MA on a RV and Dwelling Fire a while back, (3/6/05) and had a couple of LPG bottles take off. Spectacular. (Look under "Archived Incidents Jan-June 05" at www.gdvfd18.com)

[50FFEMT]

If I were you, I'd look into the emergency response guides online for the hybrids. Some of them (the Honda Insight, the Ford Escape, etc) present some firefighting challlenges due to the battery packs, high voltage cables and use of flammable metals.

Good Luck!

[DepChief135]

I agree, the new hybrids are going to cause some problems in the future. You should also look at the alternative fuel vehicles. CNG is popular with alot of fleets (our state agencies are required to purchase them). Hydrogen is also going to become more popular. Of course, then you have to address the fueling stations...

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks. I am looking into the hybrids I have a dealership here in D/FW that has agreed to send me to school on them.My goal is to put together a class just on Hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles I do have all of the emery. response books now I believe There are 9 of them.This will be Phase III of a 5 part school I am putting together on vehicle fires.

[E229Lt]

#1. As far as I know the gas tanks are made of HIGH-DENSITY POLYETHYLENE (HDPE) and not polyurethane. Unless there has been a change recently.

HDPE:
Crystalline Melt Temperature: 266-284ºF
Ignition Temperature: >680ºF

I have had a few of these melt and drop their fuel, usually from a hose connection area.

As for air bags; The industry will claim they do no react in fires but I have witnessed two steering columns explode during suppression operations. One of these created a shrapnel hazard when the retaining ring went through the roofs sheet metal.

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks for the reply, I use polyuothane as a general term they are actually made of many deff. plastics depending on the manufacture. As for the air bags not deploying in fire, they need to see my school, and then tell us that, I have about 9 movies actually caught on film of not just deploying but whole housings blowing out through the roof. with dates and times. let them argue about that. I also show the actual insident that happen to me. 2004 ford ranger all flames were out we were in the mop-up stage when both air bags exploded, we filmed the even a piece of the air bags cloth was found 47 ft behind the truck after coming through the cab.

[rualfire]

Thanks for the reply, I use polyuothane as a general term they are actually made of many deff. plastics depending on the manufacture. As for the air bags not deploying in fire, they need to see my school, and then tell us that, I have about 9 movies actually caught on film of not just deploying but whole housings blowing out through the roof. with dates and times. let them argue about that. I also show the actual insident that happen to me. 2004 ford ranger all flames were out we were in the mop-up stage when both air bags exploded, we filmed the even a piece of the air bags cloth was found 47 ft behind the truck after coming through the cab.


Do you have any of those movies in digital format? I'd love to have a copy for our training library.

[LeeJunkins]

Send me an e-mail with a mailing address . I well send you a CD

[HFRH28]

We had a MVA years ago, semi vs passenger vehicle. Both cought fire on impact, 2 Fatalitys. The Semi was WELL involved, with tires blowing by the time the first engine was there. While the preconects were being pulled the drive shaft exploded. All the heat with a tightly sealed container made a hefty boom. Just one more thing we have to watch for out there.

[firenresq77]

Excellent thread!!

[stillPSFB]

We are currently having a discussion at my volly house about car fires - we are all agreed on the directions that we will attack from, but there are various opinions on where the water should be directed first on a fully involved car fire (our usual scene as most are arson here).

Some reckon that we should cool the engine compartment first, others reckon that we should cool the rear including the fuel tank area, while one guys reckons cool the passenger compartment first - his theory being divide and conquer!

What does everyone else think?

[TCFire]

We had a stolen Chevy pickup torched last year. Our SOP is to stand off, knock it down, then move in to mop up. Worked fine until they got the nozzle up to the drivers window and hit the dash. 4th of July when the stream hit the magnesium support in the steering column. The nozzlemans turnout gear had little pin-prick burn holes from the mag. A very effective example for all concerned of why we require full PPE and SCBA for vehicle fires.

[firepimp]

Also there is a van I belive made by ford I might be wrong but I know it does exist in a vehicle and I belive it is a van , It had a magnesium dash , ( not the plastic part but behind the plastics ) .

Also I don't know if anyone else has stated any of this but battery placements are becoming very interesting had a vehicle the other day involed in a collision battery was in the front drivers side bumper , and it did belong there it is housed in the front bumper. Battery placements now include the truck under the rear seat behind the drivers seat . And it can cause many problems or hazards for extrication or securing the vehicle in general.

Thats about it from me for now maybe it helps some.

[firepimp]

Also water placement on a vehicle fire is an interesting discussion , older vehicles made out of steel I'll use as an example a older model camero , can hold heat and flames within the comparments especially within the engine to interior firewall , just something to learn a littl emore about because I'm interested in this matter as well . My main goal would be lots of water to blackn the vehicle down , but areas that hold heat and flame back from direct contact of water can be hazardous to you. On the camero fire which was caused bya brush fire we had we didnt have an engine on scene yet , I took a scotty bucket ( foam and water mixing device from our brush truck ) worked very well in helping control the situation . After it was knocked down I plugged every orface with foam that contained heat or smolders . For some reason I just love foam to death .

[arhaney]

Here's another great example of what can happen with an automobile fire:

http://firechief.com/mag/firefighting_blowup/index.html

From the article:

Crisman approached Williams and advised him of the decision to use foam. The catastrophic chain of events started when the windshield gave way, allowing fresh air into the already well-involved interior, and then the left front tire blew. Instantaneously, gasoline vapors rushed from beneath the automobile and toward the front end of the vehicle, drenching the crew with gasoline. An ensuing fireball erupted from those gas vapors, consuming everything it its path — including the firefighters.


The only reason that I continue to post this is that we need to educate ourselves as to what can go wrong while figting one of these!

Stay safe and wear your PPE!

[LeeJunkins]

I have read everyone of them and it kills me that I can't get it to you, but the reason I started this tread is: I have been working every day for 1.5 years on a class called Vehicle Fires and the dangers of New Automotive Technologies.
As I read your comments, I have not found one that I have failed to cover. I have done extensive testing and studying on these, and have developed a set of new aggressive approaches that I can mark 33 danger zones on one car and never put a man in harms way.
But I have $12,000 of my own money in the class, I can not get it out by myself. I am needing your input to back my proposals for grants.
I have already received certification for the program through Texas State Fireman's and Fire Marshalls association, The (TEEX) Texas Education Extension people are looking at it. I have Chief Ron Moore looking at it, and am combining it with an airbag class that many of you already know Todd Hoffman.

I hope to get it out soon.
We must change our training, our old way of approaching every vehicle at 45 degree angle is not enough for the technology of today's cars.

I have tryed these many many time and so fare they have worked every time, that is not to say that they are THE answer to our problems but if I can get it to all of us, it is a good Foundation that together all of us can build on.

Keep the replies coming.

[LeeJunkins]

We are currently having a discussion at my volly house about car fires - we are all agreed on the directions that we will attack from, but there are various opinions on where the water should be directed first on a fully involved car fire (our usual scene as most are arson here).

Some reckon that we should cool the engine compartment first, others reckon that we should cool the rear including the fuel tank area, while one guys reckons cool the passenger compartment first - his theory being divide and conquer!

What does everyone else think?

In my experaments I learned something, Flames are Flames no matter were they are located in the car. this is like house fire don't get tunal vision the flames is not our problem we know how to deal with them. In your studying on this ,start looking at the danger zones, Hood struts, Magnizium, Air bags, Gas inflators,bumper struts.and on and on.
,Mark them even if that car dose not have them mark every danger you can find on any car on your training car and then study if the fire is in this part of the car how can I approarch it with out putting my men in danger.

[LeeJunkins]

Mention and you shall recieve. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=45&id=37479



Awsum Pictures Thanks!!
I talked to the chief in Del ray Yesterday about copyrights and he gave me permisiom to use the one in my class
Thanks

[THEFIRENUT]

LeeJunkins,

Sounds like you are definitely doing your homework on this one. Keep us posted on your progess and please let us know when your class is up and running. Many departments underestimate the hazards associated with vehicle fires (ie. improper ppe and fire flows). Maybe your class will help spread the word about those hazards. Keep up the good work and stay safe!

[LRFPD60]

A few months ago my department responded to a possible stolen vehicle that was left in a field and torched. Our normal response is the first in engine will respond code the other non-code until updated by the first arriving officer or engine. I was on the first in engine and we pulled the line and advanced. Since it was in the middle of a field and pretty well involved we didnt kill ourselves trying to stretch line. We went on air and proceeded up to the vehicle. It was an '03 or '04 Ford Expedition. We started to apply water first on the back passenger area and work our way forward. When we started to apply water to the driver and passenger doors, Whammo......4th of July.

Apparently there is magnesium in the door panels behind the asthetics and such. That had all burned away and left the bare panels. I didn't realize until this fire that Ford had magnesium in the door panels. The sound and sight of water hitting magnesium is awesome and dangerous at the same time. Luckily we weren't anywhere close to it like the firefighter in Florida but we were close enough. As soon as we hit those panels we switched to our Foam Pak. Foamed that SUV right up. On a side note, does anyone use the foam pak as a primary way of extinguishing car fires? We have used it numerous times.

[Skwerl530]

This is the hydraulic arm that holds the hood up. The hood was already up on arrival the main body of fire was in the engine compartment, but spreading to the passenger compartment. The arm blew up just as we were charging our handline. It gave us all quite a shock. Luckily noone was hurt. We put the fire out from a distance and only approached the vehicle after everything was cooled to mop up and overhaul.

The jagged end on the left used to contain the piston. It was last seen flying over the electric lines. We never found it.

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks for the replys. I am studying the magnizium panels now I resently found out that a lot of the newer cars are using it in some of the post. I can tell you for sure ford F-150 has a mag. core support, ford also uses it in thier steering column,along with crysler, Jeep, and many others. I will post them as I find out for sure,

As for the foam I do not know how many uses it, but it is good, BUT! Please do not let it become a false securety. In my class I do a dimo, I use two very well proven foam type products that well amaze you what they can do. Then I show a 2004 ford ranger plastic gas tank that melted on me on a call 2 months ago, we used one of these products on it and it still blazed back seven times. As good as they are we are still NOT OUT OF DANGER !!!

[LeeJunkins]

Thanks for the picture . These from the responses I get From many Forums is by fare the most frequant of all the dangers. I went to the report records for the last two years to see if there was any pattern to these incidents. None I could See except that the worst one was F-150 ford. I Set out to see why, Easy to find, The mounting on the shaft end is nilon, the first thing to melt in an engine compartment fire, then the core support is mag. good hot fire, and the hood is alum. it disentagrates at very low heat, lieving the loose end of a hot strut wide open to the air.

[LeeJunkins]

I got to thinking about the mag. you were talking about in the doors, I will find out about that, but I do want to warn you about the door air bags, I was working on the GAS INFLATER problem they have been known to blowing up and throw shurapnel, I worked with the FT. Worth Bomb squad a few days blowing these thinks up to see what they would do. we used traffic flares and remote control matches to heat them. The passenger air bag canister is about 2 in. around and 6 in. long it blew in an average 20 seconds, the door canister 1 in. X 1 in. 13 seconds. some times throwing srapnel, but every time throwing pieces of the bag. I show one in the class a 2 in. piece of air bag 47 ft. behind the truck after coming threw the cab, and this was in the mop-up stage (no flames).

[LeeJunkins]

Hey Guys! please bare with me I am running a Victom Shelter and unable to get on here right now will be back in a few days.

[LeeJunkins]

I am back I still need more events Thanks for baring with me.

[CALFFBOU]

About a year ago, A Sac Metro Firefighter had a strut blow up on him and send a rod through his leg. I did a small search on it and couldnt find anything. you might want to call them for the info.

Video- I might have already shared this. Sorry if I did.

-Bou

http://www.anaheim.net/fire/car_NEW.wmv

[fastwheel33]

We had a plastic gas tank rupture in a jeep cherokee fire. Of course they had just filled up and were in the middle of a university parrking lot with nary a plug in sight. Two engine companies and some foam later the fire was out but everyone got a good lesson in plastic fuel tanks. They really suck in a fire.

[MalahatTwo7]

This would be about 3 winters ago now, but Malahat was toned to a truck on fire, during one of our lovely winter storms. Anyhow, the veh involved as a late model Dodge Dakota p/u. The box was full of funiture and much of the contents, and rear of the cab were burning well when we arrived. We lost the truck in the end. However:

During that fire we also went through about 2500 gal of water because initially unbeknownst to us, it had a polywhosit tank that had been compromised. Everytime it looked like the fire was overhauled it would start up again. It took some unloading of the stuff in the back and the use of a chop saw to cut through the box to expose the fuel tank. I was running the pump through this incident which was made even more interesting for the fire crews because of the ice and snow on the road surface, and that it was at the apex of a curve, with a high camber. Trying to push 200 psi through the 1.5 for good foam made for a long day on the line. Firefighter26 was on the line, and could add more to this story.

Fortunately it did not rupture at any time. But it did give a good lesson on 3 dimentional fires.

[LeeJunkins]

About a year ago, A Sac Metro Firefighter had a strut blow up on him and send a rod through his leg. I did a small search on it and couldnt find anything. you might want to call them for the info.

Video- I might have already shared this. Sorry if I did.

-Bou

http://www.anaheim.net/fire/car_NEW.wmv

Was this Fire Blockaid or Micro-Blaze?

[LeeJunkins]

This would be about 3 winters ago now, but Malahat was toned to a truck on fire, during one of our lovely winter storms. Anyhow, the veh involved as a late model Dodge Dakota p/u. The box was full of funiture and much of the contents, and rear of the cab were burning well when we arrived. We lost the truck in the end. However:

During that fire we also went through about 2500 gal of water because initially unbeknownst to us, it had a polywhosit tank that had been compromised. Everytime it looked like the fire was overhauled it would start up again. It took some unloading of the stuff in the back and the use of a chop saw to cut through the box to expose the fuel tank. I was running the pump through this incident which was made even more interesting for the fire crews because of the ice and snow on the road surface, and that it was at the apex of a curve, with a high camber. Trying to push 200 psi through the 1.5 for good foam made for a long day on the line. Firefighter26 was on the line, and could add more to this story.

Fortunately it did not rupture at any time. But it did give a good lesson on 3 dimentional fires.


I use two of the best foam products on the market, in my class, I show just how good they really are, then I show an actual fire I had, were we used one of these products, and the tank still flared up 7 times. We are not safe with the best products out there,when it comes to these plastic tanks.

[CALFFBOU]

Was this Fire Blockaid or Micro-Blaze?


Ummm...It was a training video. Does that answer your question?

[LeeJunkins]

Ummm...It was a training video. Does that answer your question?


Please tell me you are kiding!! These guys stood in front of the bumper for most of the movie, and looking at the car we know, that one has struts on it. And at one point he stood there and whatched it burn right over the right strut. I thought it was an advertisement for the foam company.

[SamsonFCDES]

You can come across interesting things in vehciles...

Like little Meth labs in trunks.

Semi trucks are kind of neat when they burn. Lots of fiber glass and alum and fuel. Not much left of many trucks.

We had a crude oil tanker semi roll over. The tank load didnt burn, but all of the diesel fuel did. It melted the alum rims of the semi making HUGE puddles of molten aluminum that ran down into the ditch. CAFS killed it.

[LeeJunkins]

Truck Fires are a world all their own !!! I am realizing this more and more every day. I am about 165 slides into my next phase of this class, it is on big truck fires. Unlike cars there is very little that is common to all trucks, each one has it's own dangers.

[LeeJunkins]

I am working on a report that deals with the dangers of the new automotive technologies we face today in fire. I need replies from any one that has actually had one of the new polyurethane gas tanks to melt in a fire. Also any extraordinary air bag deployments, such as housing blowing out or gas cylinders exploding.

For the people who have just read the last page of this thread let's post the original again.

[MalahatTwo7]

I use two of the best foam products on the market, in my class, I show just how good they really are, then I show an actual fire I had, were we used one of these products, and the tank still flared up 7 times. We are not safe with the best products out there,when it comes to these plastic tanks.

We were using Spitfire Class A from Angus Fire, if that helps any. We occasionally carry some other stuff, but Spitfire is our most common.

(I found my Acklands Granger catalog :D )

[LeeJunkins]

We were using Spitfire Class A from Angus Fire, if that helps any. We occasionally carry some other stuff, but Spitfire is our most common.

(I found my Acklands Granger catalog :D )

Foam is great on car fires the reason I don't use it is because I am trying to find techniques that any department no matter how big or small can use. Some can not afford foam on thier trucks. even though it is the way to go.

The main thing I hate about those videos is every one is standing right in front of the bumper, that car is a 1976 Old. Cutless They all had bumper struts, and in one place it shows the flame burning right on the right hand strut.

[LeeJunkins]

#1. As far as I know the gas tanks are made of HIGH-DENSITY POLYETHYLENE (HDPE) and not polyurethane. Unless there has been a change recently.

HDPE:
Crystalline Melt Temperature: 266-284ºF
Ignition Temperature: >680ºF

I have had a few of these melt and drop their fuel, usually from a hose connection area.

As for air bags; The industry will claim they do no react in fires but I have witnessed two steering columns explode during suppression operations. One of these created a shrapnel hazard when the retaining ring went through the roofs sheet metal.

I studied it out to get us a positive answer. aparantly these tanks are made of many types of plastics. They are made by independant companies for the manufactures, and each one uses what ever is avalible to him at the time to fell that order at the lowest cost. If you look at the top of the tank each one has the abbreviation of what it is made of casted into the tank ( HD-PE ) ect. The one I have in my display is dubble layered the inter tank is Polyurthane, and the outer part is plyethylene. ("98 Neon). The one that set the Missouri City FFs on fire was some type of composit fiber sort of like fiber glass, but plastic not rosen.

Nice to know, But the one thing we really must know is they " ALL " melt in a vehicle fire, spelling hot gas right were we taught our men to be in an aggressive attack.

[pfd4life]

These plastic tanks suck, no sugar coating it. I've had more than one melt, and spill their contents. One in recent memory split at the seam, that one got interesting really, really fast. :D Just another hazard to be aware of, especially if it's a late model well off.

[CALFFBOU]

Please tell me you are kiding!! These guys stood in front of the bumper for most of the movie, and looking at the car we know, that one has struts on it. And at one point he stood there and whatched it burn right over the right strut. I thought it was an advertisement for the foam company.

Sorry bro. Its not my video and not my FD. I just collect the videos.
I dont have any technical info. to pass along, nor know the status of
the vehicle in the video.

[Nail200]

I am working on a report that deals with the dangers of the new automotive technologies we face today in fire. I need replies from any one that has actually had one of the new polyurethane gas tanks to melt in a fire. Also any extraordinary air bag deployments, such as housing blowing out or gas cylinders exploding.

Had a couple incidents of gas cylinders exploding.

One was on the hood of a vehicle. The other was on a rear hatch window.

Wish I could remember the makes and models. It was too long ago.

I try to pay attention to positioning as it relates to these things rocketing off.

[Dave404]

I think that is well established that there are many dangers when faced with vehicle fires - just from the vehicle itself. We need to pay attention to what is inside the vehicles as well. Many vehicles are carrying hazardous materials, spare fuel tanks (slip tanks), propane cylinders, gun shells - oh yes those groceries that include personal care items in aerosol cans etc, etc.

Malahattwo7 - we have had several vehicle fires recently with very stubborn flames. As with you we have the ice factor to deal with, so when it comes to cold weather fires we use the minimal water to knockdown the flames and then finish the fire off with a 'PURPLE K' extinguisher. Purple K hasnt let us down yet and being a dry chem extinguisher it woul work well on hybrid vehicles.

Attached are a couple of pictures of a 3/4 ton chev that was carrying a 100lb propane tank. Valve got knocked, leaked, hot exhaust ignited vapours, driver parked and ran away (good for him). BLEVE caused minor structural damage to surrounding buildings and was felt upto 5 blocks away. We arrived shortly after BLEVE - 3min response time!

[Dave404]

oops - heres the pics!

[doughesson]

Jaysus!
We had a garage fire where the owner had stored a 1972 VW Beetle.The older engines have magnesium and that guy didn't see fit to tell us beyond"Just a car and parts in there."
My LT had the tip and when he sprayed the car with the same result shown in your link,he couldn't get out of there fast enough.
He then grabbed the guy and hoisted him up one handed asking"Something in there don't like water.WHAT IS IT?"
The car fires we've had on I-24 usually don't do anything but if they are well involved,we hit them with foam and not straight water.


Mention and you shall recieve. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=45&id=37479

[doughesson]

The firefighter survival and rescue class I took this past Spring showed the pictures of bunker pants that had been pierced by a hydraulic strut as well as the strut that done it.
That alone made me think of a car just like I do a firearm,something that you do not approach from either end.

This is the hydraulic arm that holds the hood up. The hood was already up on arrival the main body of fire was in the engine compartment, but spreading to the passenger compartment. The arm blew up just as we were charging our handline. It gave us all quite a shock. Luckily noone was hurt. We put the fire out from a distance and only approached the vehicle after everything was cooled to mop up and overhaul.

The jagged end on the left used to contain the piston. It was last seen flying over the electric lines. We never found it.

[LeeJunkins]

Sorry bro. Its not my video and not my FD. I just collect the videos.
I dont have any technical info. to pass along, nor know the status of
the vehicle in the video.

Thanks for the vedio any way. it is the perfect vedio to show what not to do.

[LeeJunkins]

Had a couple incidents of gas cylinders exploding.

One was on the hood of a vehicle. The other was on a rear hatch window.

Wish I could remember the makes and models. It was too long ago.

I try to pay attention to positioning as it relates to these things rocketing off.

I have a lot of people tell me that this is an infrequent thing, but I wish you could see the number of reports I have had sent to me just on struts the problem is they are never put in the insident report.Its just something to talk about at the station.

I do want to let everyone know, I am teaching a new approarh to the car, Instead of the diagonal to the corner of the car. I received a call last night confirming my reason. Sat night a Nevada FD had a SUV fire, and both rear hatch struts blew. Both blew out at a 45 degree angle, right were the firefighters would have been standing, and right at head level.

The logo of my class, "Is It Time To Change Our Training Yet ?"

[LeeJunkins]

oops - heres the pics!

Thanks for the pics. Your right I resieved an artical a few weeks ago were a man left 4 diving tanks in a jeep, and the firefighters were lift wondering why so big of an explosion as they approached the fire. Exspect the Unexspected EVERY time.

[LeeJunkins]

The firefighter survival and rescue class I took this past Spring showed the pictures of bunker pants that had been pierced by a hydraulic strut as well as the strut that done it.
That alone made me think of a car just like I do a firearm,something that you do not approach from either end.

Thanks for putting the pic. on for us.
The picture you seen of the bunker gear and strut, is just one half of the pic. I have it and the strut still in his leg.

I am trying to learn to link photos on here as soon as I can I well put it up on here.

[LeeJunkins]

[QUOTE=LeeJunkins]Thanks for putting the pic. on for us.
The picture you seen of the bunker gear and strut, is just one half of the pic. I have it and the strut still in his leg.

I am trying to learn to link photos on here as soon as I can I well put it up on here.[/QU


See if this well work; Nop! sorry bare with me.
http://midsouthrescue.tripod.com

[Nail200]

I have a lot of people tell me that this is an infrequent thing, but I wish you could see the number of reports I have had sent to me just on struts the problem is they are never put in the insident report.Its just something to talk about at the station.

I do want to let everyone know, I am teaching a new approarh to the car, Instead of the diagonal to the corner of the car. I received a call last night confirming my reason. Sat night a Nevada FD had a SUV fire, and both rear hatch struts blew. Both blew out at a 45 degree angle, right were the firefighters would have been standing, and right at head level.

The logo of my class, "Is It Time To Change Our Training Yet ?"

Thanks for a good thread!

[doughesson]

I've "heard"that if you don't cut any day-glo orange cables,an electric car is almost as safe as a gas burner when securing for extrication.WE haven't responded to any yet but has anyone else here done so?

If I were you, I'd look into the emergency response guides online for the hybrids. Some of them (the Honda Insight, the Ford Escape, etc) present some firefighting challlenges due to the battery packs, high voltage cables and use of flammable metals.

Good Luck!

[LeeJunkins]

I've "heard"that if you don't cut any day-glo orange cables,an electric car is almost as safe as a gas burner when securing for extrication.WE haven't responded to any yet but has anyone else here done so?

You have heard ALMOST RIGHT, if you have never responded to one, NOW is the time to study up on them. Yes they are safer than you would think, but the orange cables is not the only thing you must look for. There is SLEEP MODES, Low voltage systems, Automatic start-up if the driver lets his foot off the brake while it is in gear, ect. Go online and download all the manufactures emergency responce guides.

[doughesson]

Sure will.We haven't responded to any hybrid car incidents yet but those things are getting to be a near daily sighting now even in Western Kentucky.It's gonna happen.
I've got a couple four year old FH magazines that had hybrid vehicle articles in them and they mentioned the sleep modes and advised placing the transmission in park, removing the key ASAP and placing it on the dash where it can be seen,chocks,lifting it up on blocks and STILL not trusting the car not to move.
I guess some mechanical devices take a lot of killing.

You have heard ALMOST RIGHT, if you have never responded to one, NOW is the time to study up on them. Yes they are safer than you would think, but the orange cables is not the only thing you must look for. There is SLEEP MODES, Low voltage systems, Automatic start-up if the driver lets his foot off the brake while it is in gear, ect. Go online and download all the manufactures emergency responce guides.

[LeeJunkins]

Sure will.We haven't responded to any hybrid car incidents yet but those things are getting to be a near daily sighting now even in Western Kentucky.It's gonna happen.
I've got a couple four year old FH magazines that had hybrid vehicle articles in them and they mentioned the sleep modes and advised placing the transmission in park, removing the key ASAP and placing it on the dash where it can be seen,chocks,lifting it up on blocks and STILL not trusting the car not to move.
I guess some mechanical devices take a lot of killing.

Shoot that thing !!!! :D Look on here at the Rescue Threads Ron Moore posts a lot about Hybrids, he is the one that writes the articles in Firehouse.