City fires married Firefighter

[sconfire]

City fires married firefighter
by Matt Garfield of The Herald

ROCK HILL- Rock Hill firefighter Matt Cooper is out of a job.

A judge on Tuesday denied Cooper's request to keep working while his lawsuit against the city goes forward, clearing the way for Rock Hill officials to fire him immediately.

Which they did. Fire Chief Mike Blackmon sent Cooper home soon after the ruling was issued.

"It's not a good sign when they come out and tell you to take your gear off the truck," Cooper said afterward. "It's unbelievable it has come to this. Today is probably the worst day in my whole entire life."

Read the rest of the story HERE... (http://www.sconfire.com/news/07-27.htm)

JUST so everyone is up to date... here are links to the entire line of stories. There are several things to look at here. Read away and post your opinions.

- Fight Fires or get married (http://www.sconfire.com/news/Best-2005/06-08.htm) 06-08-2005
- Firefighters brethern show support (http://www.sconfire.com/news/Best-2005/06-11-2.htm) 06-11-2005
- State nepotism policy is the strictist (http://www.sconfire.com/news/Best-2005/06-11-1.htm) 06-11-2005
- Firefighters ask for policy change (http://www.sconfire.com/news/Best-2005/06-14.htm) 06-14-2005
- Firefighter weds, faces job loss (http://www.sconfire.com/news/Best-2005/06-19-1.htm) 06-19-2005
- Panels opinion favors firefighter (http://www.sconfire.com/news/07-12.htm) 07-12-2005
- Firefighter gets 10 more days (http://www.sconfire.com/news/07-16-1.htm) 07-16-2005
- Firefighter case heads back to court (http://www.sconfire.com/news/07-21-1.htm) 7-21-2005
- Firefighter to stay on job... for now (http://www.sconfire.com/news/07-26.htm) 7-26-2005

[adamkhalil]

Not cool. I hate when tradition/un-willingness to change beats out common sense/intelligence. Sad day for that city...

[BFDNJFF]

thats just rediculous ! shame that they think family working together is a bad thing.:mad: its not like he recieved his job from nepatism.

[fireguy919]

Good thing they don’t realize what brotherhood means or no firefighters would be working. This is a bunch of crap.

[sconfire]

Mind now I am in agreeance with the idea that this is a @#^^%$& policy... however I am going to play devils advocate here.

This is a bunch of crap.

Several points to consider are:
- FF Matt Cooper DID apply for the job knowing this was the policy.
- FF Matt Cooper DID accept this job knowing this was the policy.
- FF Matt Cooper was re-made aware of this policy before he married.
- FF Matt Cooper did not accept the help of the chief to assist him in re-locating to another department.

Now (reminding everyone I am playing devils advocate) IF HE knew this BEFORE he got hired and knew it WHEN he got hired... why should the city change their rules to suit him. He did not have an issue with it when he got hired... only after.

JUST A REMINDER that I believe that this is an excessive policy. :D

[Steamer]

Originally posted by sconfire
Mind now I am in agreeance with the idea that this is a @#^^%$& policy... however I am going to play devils advocate here.



Several points to consider are:
- FF Matt Cooper DID apply for the job knowing this was the policy.
- FF Matt Cooper DID accept this job knowing this was the policy.
- FF Matt Cooper was re-made aware of this policy before he married.
- FF Matt Cooper did not accept the help of the chief to assist him in re-locating to another department.

Now (reminding everyone I am playing devils advocate) IF HE knew this BEFORE he got hired and knew it WHEN he got hired... why should the city change their rules to suit him. He did not have an issue with it when he got hired... only after.

JUST A REMINDER that I believe that this is an excessive policy. :D
What would the city have done had they simply co-habitated?

[sconfire]

What would the city have done had they simply co-habitated?

What could they have done? They were not married? Thus the term "in-law" does not apply.

There is not common law marriage statute in South Carolina anymore so I imagine the city could have done... nothing.

[Steamer]

There can be just as much favoritism akin to nepotism in these "common-law" relationships, and I'm sure others have seen it. I have said before, and still maintain that if there is a difference in the way those couples are treated from the ones legally married, then he is being discriminated against because of marital status.

With South Carolina being an "at will" state, it's going to probably be a journey to the State Supreme Court if he intends to challenge it. I'm not so sure they aren't doing him a favor in the long run by forcing him to look elsewhere for a career.

[jasper45]

Originally posted by Steamer

What would the city have done had they simply co-habitated?


Once again, a great point. I know this point was brought up in another thread, but it does show a potential "loop-hole" in the policy.
Please don't take me as blindly supporting policy, but if his job is anything remotely similar to mine, he did sign off on that particular policy, as well as all other departmental/city rules. Because of that signing off, and coupled with the fact they were put into place before he was hired, it may be difficult at best for him to go back to work in that particular department.
You don't have a "right" to be a firefighter, nor to work for any city in particular. It is your choice to work for the city in which you work, you can always go and work in another place.
Sounds crazy or far fetched? These are actual court rulings against us in our quest to have residency lifted. In my opinion, this policy is no more outlandish than being told where you can or can't live, or whether you can or can't wear a beard.
Do I think his being fired is right or proper? Absolutely not, but I imagine he will have quite a fight to get his job back, if that is at all possible.

[sconfire]

There can be just as much favoritism akin to nepotism in these "common-law" relationships, and I'm sure others have seen it.
Absolutely!

With South Carolina being an "at will" state, it's going to probably be a journey to the State Supreme Court if he intends to challenge it. I'm not so sure they aren't doing him a favor in the long run by forcing him to look elsewhere for a career.
This also may be difficult. The State ethics panel, in a recent hearing on the matter, found in favor of Matt. Here is a clip of that story

The commission says state nepotism laws don't require employees such as Cooper to be fired for marrying relatives of other employees -- as long as getting married didn't help them to get their jobs or earn promotions.

Cooper, 25, worked as a Rock Hill firefighter for two years before getting married last month to Brooke Lowery, 21, the daughter of Capt. Herbie Lowery.

City officials have said Cooper will be forced to leave the department for violating a city rule that forbids relatives, including in-laws, from working in the same department. The rule is designed to prevent favoritism.

The opinion doesn't mean Rock Hill's policy is illegal, and it has no impact on the case, said Herb Hayden, the commission's executive director. It simply states that Rock Hill's rule goes beyond what state law requires.

Please don't take me as blindly supporting policy, but if his job is anything remotely similar to mine, he did sign off on that particular policy, as well as all other departmental/city rules. Because of that signing off, and coupled with the fact they were put into place before he was hired, it may be difficult at best for him to go back to work in that particular department.
My point exactley...

[Berks2Montco84]

It's pretty sad how his own department won't even stand up for him against the city.....I'd say he'd be better off finding a better department to work in....

[sconfire]

It's pretty sad how his own department won't even stand up for him against the city.....I'd say he'd be better off finding a better department to work in....

The ranks have gone to bat for the guy. The Chief went out of his way to help him find another job in another department. Fact of the matter is "he knew this policy going INTO the job to begin with".

If you read through the stories I think that the department as a whole went above and beyond trying to assist this guy.

[JackTee09]

While I understand the reaction to the events - I must state without any regret that if you go into a situation knowing the rules-and if you violate the rules-yes, even the excessive stupid ones, you are asking for trouble.

SCONFIRE is correct in his laying out the logic of the case. While it is unfortunate that Matt was dismissed he brought it upon himself. Me? I would have looked for another department - or thought twice before signing.

This is like the idiocy we witness in professional sport - "Yeah I signed the contract but now I don't like it." Really - then you are a dumba##.

This is the best thing that could have happened to Matt - he can now move forward and he has shown that city policy is excessive - but he signed it. Period.

[CaptOldTimer]

A backward City and State! All city employees should put in their papers to resign as a protest!

What a crock of royal hose dung!


:rolleyes:

[JackTee09]

A backward City and State!

Whoa!

[Berks2Montco84]

Originally posted by sconfire


The ranks have gone to bat for the guy. The Chief went out of his way to help him find another job in another department. Fact of the matter is "he knew this policy going INTO the job to begin with".

If you read through the stories I think that the department as a whole went above and beyond trying to assist this guy.

Ah, thanks for the correction, I retract my statement. I guess even the chief has to listen to the city, as much as it may suck. Well, I hope this city get's their asses in gear and changes the stupid ancient law.

Oh, and I wasn't reading the stories because the whole thing annoyed me so much...

[sconfire]

Oh, and I wasn't reading the stories because the whole thing annoyed me so much...

It is a very annoying issue. I imagine it came up from a favoritism issue in the past and this was their way of "solving" the problem. This is only speculation on my part.

[pickheadaxe]

WOW, I am surprised by this action. Well, not really it is SC, I am not surprised at all. I am from SC and they do a lot of backwards things. Trying to stop a relationship or someone that works at a job from having one is wrong. Nobody can predict what is going to happen after they take the job. However.......

SCONFIRE, you and I are about to get crushed we will stick together just like if Iwere back home buddy..........

The judge cannot go on personal feeling and what he thinks is right or wrong. No matter how much we all disagree with it, they seem to have a very good case. The city is wrong in my opinion, but they are right by the law. I feel for the guy and I wish it would have turned out better for him, but SConFire is right. He new about this stuff before he got married, not trying to take that away from him, but he did. He was also given several oppurtunities to leave under good terms and did not. I do not blame him, I would have stayed and fought too.
Those of us who know how SC fd's work they are filled with politics and such. Favoritism is huge in the south, not what you know but who you know, type thing. It is wrong, but this is the way that they have been operating for centuries down there. Trust me I know, I live there. Wrong, right or indifferent, we can only hope that the federal gov. will step in to do something, not for Mr. Cook, but for everyone thatthis clause effects. Two, as brother ff's, instead of posting negatives about his tragic defeat, why does not someone who is state side and in the local area or state, see if they have any openings to guide him too. He may have to relocate, but hey, it is a job. I also know that many ff's have second and third jobs with some of them owning thier own buisnesses, why do not some of these people step to the plate and offer the guy something to he can feed his family? I guess what I am trying to say is we should show support for him besides just posting on a thread that we disagree with thte decsion, that is all. I wish the guy best of luck and if i were home I would do what I could but, unfortunatly, I am not. Maybe when I come home and things are still the same I will do what I can.
A brotherhood is more than just saying you disagree, a brotherhood is for support and guidence as well!!! Food for thought..........

Pickheadaxe

[adamkhalil]

"They say Cooper agreed to the policy in writing when he was hired two years ago and that they have reminded him of it several times since he began dating Lowery. As a courtesy, they plan to give Cooper 30 days to find another job before his termination takes effect." -- As quoted from the 6/11 article posted on the first post.


He fell in love with her AFTER he took the job. If there was a switch that could turn off and on who you had feelings for i'd be all for it, but since there isn't, the city should join the rest of us in this millenium and change their stupid outdated laws. Or atleast allow an exception.

[Bones42]

or, back when he fell in love and thought about getting married, he could have started the process to try and change the rule then instead of hoping it would be ignored or an exception made. You know, "proactive" as opposed to "reactive".

[sconfire]

He fell in love with her AFTER he took the job. If there was a switch that could turn off and on who you had feelings for i'd be all for it, but since there isn't, the city should join the rest of us in this millenium and change their stupid outdated laws. Or atleast allow an exception.
You make one exception, then it opens the floodgates for everyone else. This should have been taken care of PRIOR to him getting married.

or, back when he fell in love and thought about getting married, he could have started the process to try and change the rule then instead of hoping it would be ignored or an exception made. You know, "proactive" as opposed to "reactive".
touche' :D

[FWDbuff]

If the City of New York, or Philadelphia had this utterly dumb-ass, back-asswoods hick trailer park rule, half of each Fire Department would have to resign.

[sconfire]

If the City of New York, or Philadelphia had this utterly dumb-ass, back-asswoods hick trailer park rule, half of each Fire Department would have to resign.
As would most of the departments in South Carolina... mine included! I can understand the need for a nepotism rule... to an extent. However I am sure there are other measures you can put into place to combat the problems.

[FFFRED]

As would most of the departments in South Carolina... mine included! I can understand the need for a nepotism rule... to an extent. However I am sure there are other measures you can put into place to combat the problems.

Those "other measures" would be an unbiased, civil service system where all hiring and promotions (as well as disipline and grievences) were handled through merit, fitness, due process and strict rules.

My view is that many of these Departments have these nepotism rules becasue they were too lazy (or stupid) to figure out how to develop such measures to prevent undue influence on the above mentioned situations.

Most Chiefs in these smaller departments that I'm familar with are too absorbed with themselves and their ability to hire and promote whomever they like instead of setting forth objective criteria for promotions and hiring. They must protect thier power and fiefdom!

And as has been said over half of my Dept(And most others that I'm aware of) would have to retire or resign immediately with this absurd rule.

Guys I work with have Brothers, Uncles, Fathers, Sons, Cousins..etc. on the job. The Chief of Department has 2 sons, and a few nephews on the job that I'm aware of.

I know a few guys who on their fathers last day on the job got to work their last tour with them. What is wrong with that? Nothing.

All of this nonsense stems from "big fish" in "little bowls" who aren't very big thinkers and are too shortsighted to see the benefits of not having such nepotism rules.

FTM-PTB

[sconfire]

My view is that many of these Departments have these nepotism rules becasue they were too lazy (or stupid) to figure out how to develop such measures to prevent undue influence on the above mentioned situations.
That could be one view. Mind you this is a very remote issue in South Carolina. Most of the departments... including mine... have brothers and sons and fathers on the job. I have to agree with you on the fact of the "lazy blanket" issue of the nepotism rule.

Seems like it was an easy way out to solve a problem.

[JackTee09]

Those "other measures" would be an unbiased, civil service system where all hiring and promotions (as well as disipline and grievences) were handled through merit, fitness, due process and strict rules.

Which does not exist in 99% of South Carolina.


I come from a family of firefighters and cops - so my view is the traditional view.

My brother and I were in the same house for one shift and then he left to go to another department where he retired - but it was nice to be with him that 1 shift.

[Weruj1]

Certainly a meesed up situation .........can see both sides........I am sorry that the City trained the person and invests time and money and then canned him. My gut says that this needs to be changed.

[SafetyPro]

I can understand having a policy prohibiting one family member from being the DIRECT supervisor of a relative, but beyond that, it doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, he signed the policy, but that doesn't make the policy right. Hopefully the whole policy will be thrown out or revamped. Still, if it was me, I wouldn't want to go back after all that.

[JackTee09]

People harp on standing up and being responsible. How about said firefighter standing up and saying "This is wrong and it needs to be changed - but me - I am not going to stay where I am not wanted."

[kwhitted]

I am not saying that I agree with the policy, but I can see where Rock Hill is coming from. I know that many fire departments in South Carolina are small departments and that on some occasion over the course of time the father in-law may have become Cooper's direct supervisor due to the sheere numbers. Whether it be on a shift or at a scene it would have happened eventually and that then opens the city up to favortism law suits.

On the policy itself. There are never rulings against a policy being to strict as long as it does not classify people based on unimutable characteristics. Just on policies that do not meet the standard. Rock Hill has done nothing lawfully wrong in this case.

[sconfire]

On the policy itself. There are never rulings against a policy being to strict as long as it does not classify people based on unimutable characteristics. Just on policies that do not meet the standard. Rock Hill has done nothing lawfully wrong in this case.

Doing nothing "Lawfully Wrong" does not mean "Morally Right"

[JackTee09]

Doing nothing "Lawfully Wrong" does not mean "Morally Right"

Indeed that is the case. Let me pose a question SCONFIRE? Would morals be involved if you were promoted, ahead of people who tested better, simply because the Chief thought you were one of "his" kind of guys - like showing up at his house to do repairs or not liking people that he dislikes - is that a morals issue?

[sconfire]

Would morals be involved if you were promoted, ahead of people who tested better, simply because the Chief thought you were one of "his" kind of guys - like showing up at his house to do repairs or not liking people that he dislikes - is that a morals issue?
Absolutely!

[JackTee09]

Absolutely!

Okay.

[sconfire]

Okay
Your point?

[JackTee09]

Your point?

My intent was to see if your ideas about moral problems with respect to the above topic coincided with mine or were different.

[kwhitted]

Being morally wrong has nothing to do with what Rock Hill did. All they are doing is covering their own backsides. The lawsuit taken up by Cooper is nothing compared to what Rock Hill would have on their hands in the future if they had allowed him to stay in such a public case. Now, if he could bring out some proof that there are other such cases in that fire department, that would be a different story, but as it stands Rock Hill has done nothing wrong in their firing of Cooper.

[JackTee09]

Now, if he could bring out some proof that there are other such cases in that fire department, that would be a different story, but as it stands Rock Hill has done nothing wrong in their firing of Cooper.

Nothing wrong legally? Or nothing wrong period?

Where did the rule come from-who instituted it?

Whitted - do you work for RHFD?

[sconfire]

Stand by! This is from Matt Cooper himself!
-----------
(As posted on the SConFire.com Forums)
I guess I need to state some facts of the issue before people make opinons on the situation here in Rock Hill.

For one everything is not what it seems.

Yes, the city is saying I knew about the policy before I was hired.

Come on can anybody really believe this. I found out about the policy right before I asked my wife to marry me. Why should it be an issue anyways. Family in the fire service is one of the oldest and best traditions we have.

The biggest fire department in the country can make it work. Why not Rock Hill? Especially when they teach you in leadership class that the city puts on, not to play favortism.

Do they not have confidence in there own training? If it was such an issue why fire me after we get married? Why not when we got engaged? We were engaged for over a year and there were no problems. Why now?

It is true the city has made exceptions in the past. The even admit it in the media. But there aregument is that they were not made under this city manager or this fire chief.

Well this city isn't named after the city manager or the fire chief. It is named the City of Rock Hill.

This decision to make an exception was made by the city. They already established that. Since they made that exception there were no problems with those two family memebers.

The fire chief also stated he did not want me working there anymore.

How can a man stand there and say stuff about his fireman and not stand up for them on a policy that has lost its integrity.

My father told me that a good leader stands up for his men. I guess not in this case. Yet, the fire chief told me in a meeting that if I would have trusted him and not have taken it to the public eye, that they were going to make an exception.

Why would he say something like that? This man also promoted me during the course of all of this, so how can he say he does not want me in the fire department.

The guys at Rock Hill know who I am and how I am. They know that I would do anything for them. That is what this was all about. Being with those guys I care so much about. Yet, the fire chief is trying to turn them against me. If they only knew what he has really said. There are some things I can't discuss becuase of my legal proceedings. But I encourage everyone to get the facts first.

The city also stated that they would get me a job somewhere else. Well if they are so worried about favortism, how can they push me to the front of the line of other applicants. Isn't that favortism?

I want my respect to be earned, not given. I am a good firefighter. I do my job with my heart, because I want to be there. Even after the city said they were going to fire me I did my job well. Also ask yourselfs this question.

Why if the city was so worried about us working together after we got engaged did they move me to his shift 4 months before his daughter and I got married? Why would you do something like that when you say you are afraid of favortism? T

hink about what has been printed and the things said. Us real fireman know you make your decisions with out reguard of who it is you are sending into a fire. Because when you pull up to a working fire you have a job to do. We do that job without second guessing ourselves, because that is what we are trained to do.

The chief says he is a 28 year veteran of the fire service. Well you think he would know those kinds of things, rather than saying he is worried about my safety if someone would come get me out or not.

I trust each and everyone of my brothers at the RHFD. I know they trust me, cause I would leave no man behind. I would stand with them through anything. I welcome anyone with questions to email me at anytime.

There is more to it, but I will answer what I can.

You can email him at Mattcooper80@aol.com
-----------
Now I can say that I truly believe Rock Hill is wrong in this matter. I have received some ill emails towards me on this subject. Remember... I only wanted to know the truth.

Thanks Matt for giving us the information.

[JackTee09]

Matt:

I am glad you told your story. As it is I happen to believe you because I know one guy on Rock Hill who has stated that you have gotten a raw deal.

You are a brother and a man - I am starting to write an article on the situation and I hope that firefighters across the nation step up and write a letter to the Chief of the Department and to the City Manager-showing that brothers everywhere will back you up.

[Bones42]

his words...
I found out about the policy right before I asked my wife to marry me. Fact, he knew about the policy before he was married.

Question: Did he do anything about the policy after he found out?

[kwhitted]

No, I do not work for Rock Hill. I am a volunteer fire fighter in southern South Carolina. I am not saying that Rock Hill did nothing wrong morally, I am just saying that they did nothing wrong legally. I am not saying that Mr. Cooper did not get a raw deal, I am just saying that he knew about the policy in advance. I understand that you cannot help who you fall in love with, but I believe that he should have taken the help that the chief offered in advance and should have gone about it through that route. Instead he waited to see what would happen. This is going to be an uphill battle for Mr. Cooper. I wish him all the luck in the world, but unfortunately I believe that the South Carolina Supreme Court is not going to find in his favor. And if he appeals their ruling I have a strong doubt that the US Supreme Court is going to take an interest because none of his constitutional rights were violated in the process.

[FWDbuff]

From The Morning Call -- July 28, 2005


Four join Bethlehem Fire Department

By Manuel Gamiz Jr.
Of The Morning Call

Four men were sworn into the brotherhood of the Bethlehem Fire Department on Wednesday morning at Bethlehem Town Hall, and for two of them, it truly was a family affair.

Christopher J. Vargo and Bryan P. Bokan both have brothers in the department. Bokan's father is a fire captain and Vargo's grandfather was the city's former chief fire inspector in the 1960s and 1970s.

Fire Commissioner Kevin Moyzan said with Bokan's hiring, it might be the first time in the city's history that two brothers and their father are in the fire department at the same time.

''It is always a joyous occasion to swear in these talented and courageous young men,'' Moyzan said.

The other two hires, Michael L. Thompson and Robert A. Cain said they have always wanted to become firefighters.

Mayor John Callahan swore in the four men, telling them they have joined ''the finest firefighting unit in the Lehigh Valley.'' He also joked with the men, who all appeared at the swearing-in ceremony with buzzed heads.

''Did you guys get your haircuts from the same barber?,'' Callahan asked. ''Was there a special?''

Vargo, 30, graduated from Bethlehem Catholic High School and Moravian College where he earned a degree in business management. For the past six years, he was a supervisor at a customer service company in Allentown.

Vargo's brother, John, has been with the department for six years and played a major part in Christopher joining. ''I kept hearing how passionate he was for the job and I really wanted to be a part of it,'' he said.

Bokan, 28, graduated from Liberty High School, and it was the same for him, hearing tales of bravery from his brother, Thomas, and his father, Tom. ''I always wanted to do this,'' said Bokan.

Thompson, 27, graduated from Bethlehem Catholic High School and said that during a career day there during his sophomore year, he decided he wanted to become a firefighter.

Cain, 26, went to school at Northampton Community College where he got a degree in emergency services, but is originally from Morris County, N.J., where he saw several of his schoolmates become firefighters.

[JackTee09]

This is going to be an uphill battle for Mr. Cooper. I wish him all the luck in the world, but unfortunately I believe that the South Carolina Supreme Court is not going to find in his favor. And if he appeals their ruling I have a strong doubt that the US Supreme Court is going to take an interest because none of his constitutional rights were violated in the process.

But you are a lawyer? Right!:D

[Bones42]

Question: Did he do anything about the policy after he found out?

[FFFRED]

kwhitted,

You state that:
The lawsuit taken up by Cooper is nothing compared to what Rock Hill would have on their hands in the future if they had allowed him to stay in such a public case. Now, if he could bring out some proof that there are other such cases in that fire department, that would be a different story, but as it stands Rock Hill has done nothing wrong in their firing of Cooper.

What type may I ask, of lawsuit would the city have faced and from whom would this suit originate after the marriage was completed?

Also considering that there is evidence that the city had made exceptions in the past to the nepotism rules (therefore potentailly setting precident) and that they made conflicting staff changes (moving him to his Father-in-Laws Shift) it would apear the city might not be in the clear and are far from being completely in the right under these circumstances, would you not agree?

FTM-PTB

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

So much for the notion of "Pro Family" in a "Red State"

[JackTee09]

So much for the notion of "Pro Family" in a "Red State"

Yes-by all means lets introduce national politics into this...:rolleyes:

[sconfire]

So much for the notion of "Pro Family" in a "Red State"
intelligent... really intelligent. :rolleyes:

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Obviously my sarcasm has hurt a couple feelings. I apologize to the entire state of South Carolina.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Originally posted by JackTee09


Yes-by all means lets introduce national politics into this...:rolleyes:

Well since firefighters outside South Carolina have been asked to support Brother Cooper, in essence it is not too far off the mark. I think it's a travesty and I am glad that monies, that come in portion from ME and MY LOCALS per capita has been used to help him out.

[JackTee09]

Well since firefighters outside South Carolina have been asked to support Brother Cooper, in essence it is not too far off the mark. I think it's a travesty and I am glad that monies, that come in portion from ME and MY LOCALS per capita has been used to help him out.

MIKEY:

I don't disagree with what you wrote - what I fail to see is what "red" states and "blue" states have to do with the situation regarding Matt Cooper. It is an issue which needs to be addressed - but it has nothing to do with national politics.

Do you think that any monies used from the locals in SC should be flouted if they help a brother in Maine, California, or anywhere else? I don't. That has NOTHING to do with this issue.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Not much a political agenda from me. More a sense of irony that a man was fired for of all things, getting married. As for my union dues going towards ANY fellow member who is in need, I am proud to be able to do so, however small my contribution really is.

[JackTee09]

:rolleyes:

[firedragoneater]

I know an have talked with several Rock Hill firefighters and asked “What is really going on?” At first I really felt sorry for Matt and thought it was all about policy. But now I am hearing about all these allegations and reading Matt’s negative comments on SConfire.
He has stated he is one of the brotherhood and would not turn in the names of his fellow firefighters relationships. Go to the court house in York, SC and you can get a copy of his declaration which is on page #4, where he gives all the relationships he is aware of in his allegations and courts suit to the judge. He says the city is in violation of the policy. The city reviewed them all and said they weren’t in violation of the policy. Now Matt and his lawyers disagree and asked the judge to overrule the city. If that was to happen those firefighters would lose their jobs. If Matt thinks this is brotherhood, he is absolutely wrong.
Matt and his lawyers stated that 100% of the firefighters in Rock Hill are behind him. If anyone thinks this is true now that he has turned on his own firefighters trying to cost them their job because of the policy, they are mistaken.
Matt states on SConfire he found out about policy right before he asked his wife to marry him. Matt was told by fellow firemen when he first started dating Brooke that he couldn’t marry her and work there, he told them he had no intentions on marrying her.
Another thing, some of the firefighters in question on relationships that could lose their jobs are IAFF members. How can the IAFF hope a judge disagree with the cities policy and see IAFF members lose their job? It does not seem right they would jeopardize another IAFF member’s job for Matt.
Another surprising thing I was told that Matt has applied at other departments when he said he has not. I understand he had applied at Charlotte Fire Department and failed a CPAT test, which means he is not physically fit for firefighting.
It really disappointments me this firefighter has went from fighting the policy to negative tactics with his allegations. If he really cares about the Rock Hill Fire Department why would he not stop it and move on with his life.

[FWDbuff]

A few posts back, I posted a newspaper article about the Bethlehem, Pa. Fire Department. I thought it would raise some eyebrows from all the nay-sayers about Matt and his endeavors......I believe his rights ARE being violated. I wish him ALL the luck in his battle against the People's Republic of Rock Hill, and the communist state of SC. I do think he should have left the others guys names out of it, as if this gets ugly, the City could dump those guys; but then again, he needs evidence. Damned if you do, Damned if you dont.

Any comments, positive or negative, regarding the article?

[JackTee09]

If Matt wants people to listen he needs to come to Firehouse.com and post on these forums. You are not even a member here yet you mention another website over and again. That is not a knock against the other site - but this smells like a little PR to heat this thread back up.

Why do people feel the need to advertise when it states that none of us are supposed to do it?

[BFDNJFF]

Actually if Sconfire is mentioned it’s because grant runs the site and is good peoples and posts here frequently with good info. It isn’t advertisement if the articles on the situation are on that site, otherwise when people put up links to news articles from foxnews.com or cnn.com I guess they are just advertising. :rolleyes:


Though i do agree the man should come on here and drum up some support !

[sconfire]

It twasnot me! :cool:

Thanks for the CNN and Foxnews comparison!

[JackTee09]

Actually if Sconfire is mentioned it’s because grant runs the site and is good peoples and posts here frequently with good info.

I agree that Grant runs a good site. However there is advertising on his site just as there is advertising on Firehouse.com. Thus, if you are led there from a post here you might, just might, use one of his advertisers "goods." Since no one else, and we had this out with a certain Captain, is supposed to advertise on the forums why the double standard?

For example if you like Fire Engineering can you post a link to their site with your signature? I would hope not. If the link goes to a fire department website thats great - so be it - as long as they are not selling space to advertisers.

The news analogy is off - how many people have listed in their signature www.cnn.com? :D


This is something that is talked about in e-mail and via PM and a few people speak out on the forums about it - but tommorow if someone on here put a link to their website that makes money off advertisements or goods sold would they be yanked? According to the TOS they would. Its not about how good a website is - its about putting links where they are supposed to be put.

[sconfire]

I agree that Grant runs a good site. However there is advertising on his site just as there is advertising on Firehouse.com. Thus, if you are led there from a post here you might, just might, use one of his advertisers "goods." Since no one else, and we had this out with a certain Captain, is supposed to advertise on the forums why the double standard?
All of my advertisers are local people. So if someone in Anchorage Alaska wants to buy an American LaFrance from Bobby Johnson... I find that hard to swallow.

I dont think there is a double standard here. No one is posting the advertisers links. I think the hair splitting has gone to far! :p

[sconfire]

OOPS!! I just hijacked the thread! Bad... bad... bad...

back to the situation at hand.

[Medic162]

This thread is cracking me up. I know VERY little about Matt and his situation. Really, just what I've read in headlines here and at Grant's SC#@fu=2.com I'd hate to "name" the website as it offends some of you. Jeezus, do you really think this is a ploy for advertising? Trust me, that website needs no help. I live in a house with 3 women. I come here to get away from the bit#@ing.

[JackTee09]

All of my advertisers are local people. So if someone in Anchorage Alaska wants to buy an American LaFrance from Bobby Johnson... I find that hard to swallow.

It is still advertising. That is not supposed to happen on the forums.

(As seen on SCONFIRE) - from the first post. LOL. No-that is not advertising - it's blatant.

I think quite a few people will start to advertise now.

[RLFD14]

(image removed so I could use it somewhere else)

[JackTee09]

Thats a good picture.

Last post for me on this thread:

I wish Matt the best.

[Weruj1]

Ex-South Carolina Firefighter Settles Lawsuit over Nepotism Firing for $5,000
Fired for Marrying Captain's Daughter, Now Training to Be Ohio Firefighter


Updated: 10-27-2005 10:42:37 PM
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By Charles D. Perry
The Herald (Rock Hill, S.C.)



Former Rock Hill firefighter Matt Cooper has settled his lawsuit with the city that fired him for marrying a fire department captain's daughter.
The city of Rock Hill announced Wednesday that a $ 5,000 check had been delivered to Cooper's attorneys in exchange for Cooper agreeing not to make any more claims against the city.

In a news release, the city stated that Cooper had agreed that "any settlement is not to be construed as an admission of any liability or wrongdoing on the part of the city."

Cooper, 25, made national headlines this summer when he was fired for marrying 21-year-old Brooke Lowery, the daughter of Capt. Herbie Lowery.

Cooper's termination stemmed from violation of a city rule that forbids relatives, including in-laws, from working in the same department. The purpose of the rule - which is one of the strictest in the state - is to prevent favoritism, city officials say.

Cooper sued the city, claiming the nepotism policy is invalid because it is written inconsistently.

The case went to state court, then to federal court, then back to state court. Cooper's job ended July 26 when a judge denied his request to keep working while his lawsuit against the city went forward.

Since then, Cooper has taken a firefighting job in his hometown of Findlay, Ohio.

Cooper said Wednesday he isn't happy with the settlement.

"No, I'm not (satisfied), and the only reason I considered settling is because my wife and I have moved on with our lives," Cooper said. "I still feel I was done wrong by the city of Rock Hill, and I will never work for a place that treats employees like they do again."

Cooper said he and his wife bought a house last week. On Dec. 9, he'll graduate from the Ohio Fire Academy. He said he doesn't miss Rock Hill.

"About the only thing I miss from down there are the guys from the fire department and my in-laws," he said.

City Manager Carey Smith said the city is pleased with the settlement.

"This will allow us to save valuable taxpayer dollars that otherwise would have been spent on costs associated with further litigation," he said in a written release. "We look forward to putting this matter behind us and moving forward with serving the citizens of Rock Hill."

The city paid its lawyers $ 27,835 between June and August to defend against Cooper's lawsuits, according to records obtained by The Herald through a Freedom of Information Act request.

[Nail200]

What would the city have done had they simply co-habitated?

Good question!

Policies should be tempered with common sense :rolleyes:

Don't let them work in the same station or district.

[FirefighterAlly]

Good question!

Policies should be tempered with common sense :rolleyes:

Don't let them work in the same station or district.

I most definately agree! At my combination dept POC/Career, we have several family members working there including parent/child, and husband/wife. We currently have no rule stating that this is not allowed, nor do we have a ruling stating that these family combos can or cannot run on the same apparatus together. Running as a POV on the Ambulance with a parent/child or husband/wife team with me as the 3rd makes me highly uncomfortable, in the off chance something went terribly wrong and we were scrutinized for our care I could easily be up s*&# creek w/o a paddle. I highly doubt that in a scenario like that I could depend on the truth coming out, but more likely to depend on those teams backing eachother up to cover themselves.