Seriously enough Iraq threads

[Firetacoma1]

Could there be a dedicated Iraq firefighting forum or maybe a Contract Firefighter forum? I have NO interest in ANYTHING having to do with firefighting in Iraq and hate having to wade through it to find valuable information about firefighting as opposed to people whining or asking if it's worth it!

Flame me or whatever but it's seriously getting rediculous.

[Nail200]

Come on Tacoma,

Lets play nice. All those threads are marked Iraq. They happen to be grouped up because we have an active wife helping the cause. The least we can do is support them.

Think it over brother. It doesn't take but a few seconds to identify and pass on those threads. If you've got a problem with it why don't you send a private message to the moderators out of respect for those individuals posting constructively on those threads.

Sandboxwife is providing a hell of a service and a lot of support to other wives and the guys over there helping. Lets give her the respect she deserves.

[Nail200]

Tacoma,

I spent time up there in the 9th Inf at Lewis. Very pretty country you have up there. Memorable time in my life.

[Berks2Montco84]

Well, most of us have tried to have one dedicated Iraq thread, but some people are intent on doing the exact opposite....

[Nail200]

Don't sweat it Berks. Keep up the good work!

Nail

[FlyingKiwi]

Stick around Tacoma, wait until some Bunny starts threads on

What do you have in your bunker pockets?
Should I get flashing lights for my POV?
What are the best flashing lights for my POV?

And my all time favourite.

Should Explorers, Juniors, Girl Scouts, Bridge Clubs etc be able to do interior fire work at incidents?

Don't beef about this one, pick a really good subject.

[roundmtnvfd3]

All you have to do is not click on the ones that have "Iraq" in them and your problem is solved... they are there for a reason, just let it be.

[PattyV]

tacoma, keep in mind that recently a whole bunch of those Iraq threads were created by a certain individual (for anyone that reads Scott Adam's books you know the type of individual) that has nothing better to do then to create pointless threads ranting and raving about how he had such a bad time in Iraq. (fair enough, but the caps lock can be turned off, i even showed him how)

[StLRes2cue]

Originally posted by FlyingKiwi
And my all time favourite.

Should ..... Bridge Clubs etc be able to do interior fire work at incidents?




ROTFLMAO

[CaptainGonzo]

Originally posted by FlyingKiwi and StLRes2cue
And my all time favourite.

Should ..... Bridge Clubs etc be able to do interior fire work at incidents?

ROTFLMAO

:D Second that! :D

[Firetacoma1]

Yeah, I respect our brothers over seas but really can't they get their own forum? Explorers have their own, each state has their own, why not Iraq?

And kiwi, I've been lurking and sorta posting for a few years now so I know all about the typical reposts. And yes, bridge clubs should be able to go interior!

[sandboxffwife]

You know, I really shouldn't waste my time even posting, however, when you're passionate about something it's kind of hard not to!

First of all, I can't really disagree about the many FFing in Iraq threads ... though I think a few were created by mistake (clicking on new thread instead of new post). I can't agree more though on why you even concern yourself with it? If you don't want to read it, DON'T! And yet, you create a new thread that not only has "Iraq" in the title but just asks for someone to take offense to it!

And second, we do deserve respect! We are not posting about Iraq to brag by any means. I would certainly rather have my husband home with his three children who miss him terribly. And as if, it isn't dangerous enough doing his job ... now he's in Iraq. So, we find things to keep ourselves busy ... and show our support?! And you knock it? I feel very sorry for you ... and your fellow "brothers" that you don't understand "support" ... cause then, will you really be there for them? Not to mention, you will most certainly die a very lonely man!

Third, we (the ladies, girlfriends, wives, sisters) are NOT trying to "take over" ANYTHING to do with firefighting or your "glory" (which seems to be your egotistical way of thinking). Again, we're trying to be supportive!

So, piss on you for someone trying to be supportive, informative, and just doing what THEY want to do (because YOU'RE TIRED OF IT)?!

Other than that ... have a most wonderful day ... be safe ... and GET HAPPY!
~ Kirsten

[Firetacoma1]

So you agree with me but I should piss off. Ok.

Wouldn't you rather have your own forum? Where every post had to do with iraq firefighting? That's all I'm suggesting. That and for every other thread not to be from someone who doesn't know how to reply to an existing thread or someone bitching about how they got their feelings hurt over there.

[sandboxffwife]

If I agreed with you, it was that there ARE quite a few threads having to do with Iraq ... with SOME mistakes made ... and with some intentions to change "attitudes" ... SO WHAT IF THEY START ANOTHER THREAD? DON'T READ IT! It WASN'T that I agreed there were SOOO many and that they should go somewhere else! That's why I felt you should "piss off" and it was also in reference to the "women" getting involved!

Firehouse.com "promoted" WSI ... which is how my husband heard about the opportunity ... but "Iraq" is not the only topic we come on to the forums to look up, take part in, and learn about. So, we don't need our "own" forum!

And if someone wants to piss and moan about "their raw deal" or rant and rave about "their issues" its just that ... THEIRS! Their opinion, their issue, their idea ... you don't have to own it?! Just like yourself, you chose to piss and moan about the threads ... you are completely entitled to your say ... you felt it necessary to do so?? We've heard you out ... and I posted MY opinion! Don't turn it into something it's NOT! This is an "OUTLET" for a lot of people ... I'd rather everyone have an outlet than go postal!

Be safe,
~ Kirsten

[stm4710]

I got a real hard time reading these contract firefighters in Iraq bitching in posts and feeling sorry for them.

We have fire departments here that dont have enough gear or good appartaus!!!! I cant feel sorry for those that willingly signed up to go to a war zone and expect to be farting in silk while they lined there wallets.

[Firetacoma1]

I never said anything even related to "these women getting involved" so don't tell me to piss off for that.

I don't mean leave firehouse.com.

I mean a SEPERATE place like the explorers have to talk JUST about Iraq issues.

[turnout733]

This is my first post. I have been reading the Iraq forum since day one. I am a DOD Contractor in the Middle east myself (not iraq). I have worked for many years as a DOD Civilain Firefighter/Officer. I have watched the treads go from informational, to bad to I don't know what. Its a shame that the iraq posters don't realize what its doing to their reputations among the others in the fire service. I have no need to wonder why, its already been said that they hire anyone, no proper screening process. Its obvious that whats landing over there and being called a "Combat Firefighter", is not as a majority, a reflextion of the rest of the federal fire service, even contractors. The angry remarks, (such as the "piss" remark by sandboxffwife) only reflects their frustration for recognition as mainstream firefighters, that from the looks of the posts will never come. I have definately seen some professional posters, and i feel for them and hope they don't melt into the soup they are presently swimming in, make your money and get home. WSI made the system, everyone over their chose to work in it, adapt or step off. I expect flames, I don't expect agreement. Once again, i agree with the original poster, enough, its tough being a professional and not trying to intervene or problem solve, I understand the original posters motives. Its also backed up by:

stm4710 I got a real hard time reading these contract firefighters in Iraq bitching in posts and feeling sorry for them.

[sandboxffwife]

I shouldn't even comment ... if that's what you get from what I posted then so be it! "Firefighting isn't rocket science now is it?"

FYI: My husband took a leave from a "mainstream" career as a firefighter for the City of Norfolk, VA (OF NINE YEARS). I certainly don't want ANY recognition of him as a "Combat Firefighter" because that ISN'T an accurate description ... he provides fire service TO/FOR the military so they can do the "combat firefighting" But who said anything about that, other than you? Once again, turning it into something it's not! And what would you know of the "screening process" anyway ... other than being a smart-ass based on you're own pissing and moaning?!

Who asked you to feel sorry for them? It's venting. Well, I can't speak for all of 'em. Like you said yourself (stem4710) "We have fire departments here that dont have enough gear or good appartaus!!!!" You're venting! And there are PLENTY of firefighters in Iraq who AREN'T complaining ... who ARE trying to work ... who ARE trying to help ... so don't "categorize" ALL the firefighters!

Thanks for letting me share my opinion ... good luck in all that you do ... be safe and take care,
~ Kirsten

[beblom]

Sandboxffwife,

You are a pistol,,, you go girl... I would like to Thank you for all of your support... I am one of the FF's in Iraq and really like to read your post..


and for the guy who doesn't want to open a post with Iraq in it then don't when I look for a post I read the heading before I open it..


Thanks again Kristen

Bruce

[stm4710]

Originally posted by sandboxffwife
FYI: My husband took a leave from a "mainstream" career as a firefighter for the City of Norfolk, VA (OF NINE YEARS)
~ Kirsten Hmmmm what would make someone leave a nice civil job in the US and go fight fire in war zone??????? $$$$ thats all.

[turnout733]

You should not have commented....You are continuing the norm on the Iraq threads. These posts are being read by Fire chiefs from civilian, DOD and contractors worldwide. Go ahead, keep it up.

[Lasko189]

Im in Iraq, and im tired of all the new threads also. I think giving Iraq a seperate forum, just like the states is a good idea.

[sandboxffwife]

Actually (turnout) YOU are the exact reason others have chosen to start their own thread ... but really who cares? Who are you to judge someone else? Read it, don't read it, post, don't post ... it's all about CHOICE?! And what do I care about WHO reads these? That make no sense or threat whatsoever!

And (stem) WHAT IF it were all about money to go to Iraq? Money makes the world go round. And because WE want a better life for ourselves and our children? AND he gets an opportunity for a "change in scenery" (good or bad) ... AND he gets a chance to do "his part" for the country? Who are you to judge? Oh, and don't exaggerate ... while my husband has the balls to fly into a war zone to do his job ... NO firefighters have been killed in the "war" ... nor have we ever claimed that they are any more "heroic" than doing their jobs stateside!

It's funny how, this was a thread complaining about the Iraq threads (complaining) and all you've talked/complained about are the Iraq threads??

I'm done ... you've gotten your rise (and fall) outta me ... and I have much more important things to do ...
Take care and be safe ... always,
~ Kirsten

[roundmtnvfd3]

Whoa! Everybody play nice, were all on the same side here! If you want to take the Iraq threads off here Tacoma, then YOU go take it up with the webmasters.. otherwise until there is another forum then they have no where else to go... I guess youd better get busy Tacoma.... in the meantime, everybody chill!

[Dave404]

I dont really care if you have a post in here. What I do care about is threads that bread ill sentiment. This is not what these forums are meant for. Each organization has its challenges - a contract firefighter in Iraq, a volunteer in Buckstahooti, A full time IAFF. Lets try to keep the forum civilized and informative.

Has anybody tried to contact the web moderator and get an area for Iraq? Or does the master of the site have a problem with that since one Iraq thread has already been shut down? Why was that thread shut down - because of petty little arguments....like this that grow!
Come on guys - be proactive and quite bitching about every little thing - lifes to short.
Stay safe - wherever you are!

[Berks2Montco84]

Well this went downhill in a flash....Turnout, just so you know, Sandboxwife isn't herself in "The Sandbox", her husband is. She has been one of the very few supporters of the guys/girls over there, and those of us who are waiting to go over and wanting to find out as much info as possible. She's not the problem on this forum, it's everyone who whines and bitches about what they perceive as ill-treatment from WSI. How would you feel if your spouse was over fighting fires in a combat zone, and someone came on these forums and said what seemed like, "We don't care about what people are doing over there, so stop talking about it." Granted, that's not what Firetacoma said, but some of us perceived it that way. So please, cut Sandboxwife some slack, and let's all concentrate on getting rid of the trolls, k?

Now, back to the point of this thread.....As I think about it more, I actually think that having our own section would be nice. That way, when I want to hear stuff about Iraq, I don't have to sift through all of the other threads that we have here. We'll have to make sure everyone knows about it, but in my opinion it's actually a good idea.

[roundmtnvfd3]

Amen.

[garypoe4454]

Threads

I am so tired of the childishness in these threads.
The only thread that is not child like is the WIVES thread.
The lady¡¦s seem to focus on what the thread is about.
In the FIRST thread is was good for a long time, sharing information not taking shots at each other.
IRAQ is a hard place WSI has many problems, some of the personnel were hot hired with proper Certs (this is the norm in the contract F/F world, I know this as WSI-Iraq was my 3rd contract.
ALL startups are complicated and support is irksome to say the least.
In all depts. You have good officers and you have Straw bosses. In most Vollie depts. You have cry baby Bitc_¡¦s that run to the Chief and pimp out the others. In paid depts. You have the Kiss up who can not be trusted either.
When 1 brings hundreds of people from all over the Country (USA) to perform a Military Contract 8,000 miles away from home, and Management has not worked out all the bugs, and worry about bizzy work instead of setup, one will find great frustration.
No one was forced to go to IRAQ but the nature of man is that when give limited information on will usually speculate in the positive to ¡§sell the idea¡¨ to ones self.
That is what I did and that is what many have done also.
Let us raise the bar Gentleman GIVE only first hand information limit the redorick and who cares if the member (expressing there ¡§right to self expression¡¨) USES ALL CAPS>
The use of all caps on the internet is for dramatic, or loudness, and can be used as yelling.
If the member wants to ¡§warn¡¨ others of perceived pit falls it is there right to do so.
If others wish to parse the ¡§history making¡¨ accomplishments WSI has made then that is there right.
You¡¦ll carry on and remember Have a nice day ƒº
Been there done that and wsi stole my T-Shirt!!

[doughesson]

If we didn't get paid for our labors,what would be the point of filling out an application?
If the"market"has decided that fighting fires in hazardous areas pays more than in nice secure American cities,towns and rural areas,so be it.
If an outfit can pay 90K a year for someone to go where it's hot,sandy with intermittent groundfire,the people who sign up to go have a Right to expect that they'll have good equipment to use.The company that can pay top wages can afford top equipment and damn well better provide it,in my view.


Originally posted by stm4710
Hmmmm what would make someone leave a nice civil job in the US and go fight fire in war zone??????? $$$$ thats all.

[turnout733]

Like i said before, i watched the original Iraq threads from the beginning. There is some truth to what Sandboxffwife said, I was complaining in my post. Perception is a big thing whether we like it or not. when the world reads these posts, whining and complaining 24-7, they paint a picture of these people, not just WSI, but the poster as well. These posters are contract firefighters just as i am. What do you think Fire Chiefs think when they see as employment history on a resume as "Firefighter, WSI Iraq"? I know what i think, I deal with it everyday. I screen resumes and i know what the Chief thinks. Everyone knows about this site. Our chief reads it regularly. These guys posting think they are only hurting WSI, but they are hurting every Firefighter that has to list WSI Iraq as employment history. They are painting a negative "perception" of contract firefigters in Iraq, not just WSI. If i have offended everyone, i apologize. I'm just saying "think" before you post. WSI is not being harmed by this. WSI can dissolve and become any other name after this contract. Can every contract firefighter there do the same? I am on the inside in a position that gets to see the effects of this. Listen or not, WSI does not have to worry about employment history later.

[Firetacoma1]

I have contacted the webteam about a seperate Iraq forum.

Anxiously awaiting their reply.

[Dave404]

I also contacted them Tacoma - hopefully it will be a positive answer and good for all!

[Rigin1]

Turnout, if you and your "chief" are making employment decisions based on a internet message board I fear for the future of whatever city it is that would put you in a position to hire, fire, or clean restrooms for that matter.

With that being said I think the firefighters whining about WSI is a reflection of today’s job market. Nothing seems good enough for employees now. You have recent college grads that enter the workforce that think they should be getting paid the same as a 20 year person who has put in their time. They want more pay, more benefits, and fewer hours. Sorry to say but YOU CHOSE TO CHASE THE MONEY. Sorry if they are not being nice to you, but their are numerous departments stateside that have issues I care allot more about then yours. If you don't like the fact that you chose to go to an unstable country that is in the middle of a war for 90k a year then quit but please stop telling us how you were deceived. Maybe the money had you so blinded that you were not paying attention to all the details in your employment agreement.

As for people saying they are doing it for the future of their wives or kids. Let me tell you something. There is no amount of money in the world that could compensate me for losing a year of my son's or my wives life. Seeing one of my sons hit a homerun in t-ball. Or lose a first tooth. Or ride his bike for the first time without training wheels is worth way more to me then 90k a year. If you need money that bad. Get a second job near home while your kids are at school. Don't by the new car you don't really need. Whatever it takes to be involved with your kids.

The people I admire and pray for are those that signed up to protect our country for minimal pay and got sent to that hellhole and are doing things most of us would to scared to do.

/rant off

[MJRyanBFD]

Rigin....I couldnt agree with you more about missing time with your family...and yes I commend you on your desire to be with them...I have two kids myself and I made the very difficult decision to come over here so that 20 yrs from now I won't have to. I would much rather be with my kids and loved ones working 24-48's but in order for me to do that and provide for my family I need to be here. I commend every soldier over here for serving there country in the way they do. I did my time in the service and was fortunate enough to have been given a job that kept me out of war torn countries. I went in open contract and was given airport firefighter as a job. thats why I am a FF today...absolutely the best decision of my life. When I accomplish my goals of why I came over here I will be the first one in line to get the hell out of here. I dont mind it here but yes I like it with my family alot more.... As for the reflection of the workforce...uh-huh....definitely getting worse...maybe I misunderstood your last comment but it sounded to me that you could care less about us (FF's) or any other contractor over here...we are all doing a part for our country...Only my opinion but I think that people that are enjoying there time with there families in the states should take the time out and pray for the safe return of every american over here, and that this war comes to a peaceful conclusion...

I am not disagreeing with you but if I was correct about your last comment I'm sorry you feel that way and I hope you reconsider your feelings about anybody but soldiers

Stay Safe!

[Rigin1]

Don't get me wrong I want all that are over there to come home safe but trying to say they are doing it for their country is wrong. They are doing it for the money. If you want to do it for your country join the military and be a firefighter. Think conditions suck now? Wait till your operating some of that fine military equipment they have. The people who chose to leave their families in chase of the almighty dollar made their bed and now have to lay in it. I don’t want to hear someone who made the choice to make 90k a year with hardly any other expenses crying about how tough it is when our military men and women suck it up and dodge bullets for a lot less. So make your money and quit with the whining no one forced you to be there. If you don't like it leave. I am sure their are more money hungry lackeys more then willing to take your spot.

Good Luck

[weulz1396]

Originally posted by Rigin1
They are doing it for the money.

The people who chose to leave their families in chase of the almighty dollar made their bed and now have to lay in it.

I am sure their are more money hungry lackeys more then willing to take your spot.

Good Luck

So all of us who are over there or waiting to go over there are "money hungry lackeys". You don't know who or what we are and the fact that you would make such a brash statement shows that you put very little thought into it. That would be about the same amount of thought put into some of the posts you are complaining about. I have emailed and spoken to several fine men who are working for WSI right now. I would like to see you say some of the crap you wrote to their faces. There are dozens of reasons to go over there, not just the money. In fact some of the guys over there would tell you that the reason they went is so they can make a better life for their children. (I for one am bound and determined to put my daughter through college , but that is just one reason.) Maybe you can't see where others are coming from. Maybe you could if you got off of that high horse you rode in on. You are not better that anyone else just because you wouldn't trade $90,000 to see your kid hit a home run. This country was built by people leaving home (and sometimes their families) for work. How about the pioneers that settled in the West. Were they "money hungry lackeys" as well? Or were they looking to make a future for families? How you can sit there and make blanket judgmental statements about people you have never even met is completely in the wrong.
I for one am anxiously awaiting my departure date, and I think I can speak for others when I say I am glad you are not. After 2 months you would be just as bad as some of the worst complainers on this board.

[MJRyanBFD]

Rigin1....I really dont know what to say about your naive generalization of all contract firefighters in Iraq...I consider it an insult to say the least...How did you come to these conclusions?...Do you know for sure why exactly every contract firefighter is over here?....Are we all "money hungry lackeys?"

If you want to do it for your country join the military and be a firefighter.

...I AM SERVING MY COUNTRY..and getting paid alot to do so.

I don’t want to hear someone who made the choice to make 90k a year with hardly any other expenses crying about how tough it is when our military men and women suck it up and dodge bullets for a lot less.

..I don't either...but I support my family so I have plenty of expenses

So make your money and quit with the whining no one forced you to be there.

....I wont take this personally but some others should DEFINITELY. I personally like my job!!

I am sure their are more money hungry lackeys more then willing to take your spot

...This I take personally...I dont work for WSI..I work for KBR...I know some people that are far from being qualifed to hold positions over here(and in the states)...and yes I know people that work for WSI that I used to work with in the states that are "Lackey's"...I wonder what some of the highly qualified individuals over here would think about your general impression of all contract workers....Do you work with nothing but highly qualified individuals at your dept?...me neither...I am trying to be polite about this because people on here that lower themselves to childlike behavior is a disgrace to the fire service that I respect...so I will say as respectfully as possible that your opinion of contract firefighters as a hole is incorrect and demeaning...And if you ever have to chance to meet one of them then maybe you should form your opinion because you probably have never met one..or possibly have but have never met any of the fine individuals I work with...

Stay Safe!

[Rigin1]

My opinions are towards the people complaining on this board that are over there. I am not naive enough to think that a good majority of people won't chase money but don't whine when you get there. If you can't figure out a way to make money to give a good life to your family or put your kids through college without putting yourself right in the middle of the most unstable region in the world then more power to you....enjoy. Don't look to others to have sympathy for your conditions.

As far as people moving out west to make better lives for themselves and their families...the majority took their families with them, and they didn't drop themselves into the middle of a war to do it.

[pickheadaxe]

Ok well rjin or whatever, I am here, and I some what agree with you.

Hello you morons.......the only reason ANY OF US considered it was because of the money. If you deny that, then you are dumber than you look. Weulz or whomever, come on dude. It is great you want to put your daughter through college, but be reall dude. Don't be a fake. At least own up to the fact that if it were not for the money then why would you have bothered. This other guy.......MJrayn.......you are serving your country right NOW!!!!! That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. KBR serving their country...........thats like saying Saddam was never a dictator!!! You are an idiot and really deserve no comment, but here ya go. You opened it, you are gonna get it. KBR does nothing unless it involves putting money in their pocket. You along with all of the other toothless rednecks, uneducated, worthless scum are about as dumb as a box of rocks. The only thing KBR is good for is saying "are we getting paid to do this for the troops" If I had a penny for everytime I heard that along with the WSI saying "you are making enough money.....", I could have gone home after the first month debt free and bought my own island somehwere. Got to be kidding me, KBR, you, serving you country, comparing that to what the REAL troops do everyday!!!! You should be drug out in the street and shot. NONE OF US over here do a 1/3 of what our troops do or put up with. So anyone who says or believes that can goto H---!!!! None of us CIVILIANS are here to serve our country or here so our kids do not have to be here 20 yrs from now, that is BS, and all of you know it. If it were a soldier saying that, I would buy it, I would even buy it if an Iraqi civilian said it to me about our troops, but myself, WSI, KBR, or anyone that works for them says it they are idiots. I came here for one reason......Money and IF there was sommehting I could do for the troops I would do what I can just to try and help, not expect am I getting paid to do it. Most of the time all they want is someone to talk to or hang out with.
See this is what happens when you give someone that is a complete idiot a computer and show them a thing or two, they think they can do anything with it and they screw that up as well. Besides, MJrayn or whomever, if you work for KBR why are you posting on a FD website, run out of donuts to eat and money to charge someone for a piece of paper or something?

Pickheadaxe

[MJRyanBFD]

pickheadaxe....its a shame you feel that way...but than maybe your the type of person that I referred to in my earlier post...

B]and yes I know people that work for WSI that I used to work with in the states that are "Lackey's"[/B]


your attitude is exactly the impression I have gotten from the majority of WSI employess...no wonder most people that work for WSI over here talk so much trash about there fellow employees....


But than again I don't know you so I won't begin to judge you...As far as you insulting me or KBR or WSI for that matter...your opinion is exactly that, your opinion......I won't act like a child and bash someone because of there opinion...everyones entitled..

Got to be kidding me, KBR, you, serving you country, comparing that to what the REAL troops do everyday!!!! You should be drug out in the street and shot. NONE OF US over here do a 1/3 of what our troops do or put up with. So anyone who says or believes that can goto H---!!!! None of us CIVILIANS are here to serve our country or here so our kids do not have to be here 20 yrs from now, that is BS, and all of you know it.

You must of misread what I wrote I didnt compare what I do to what the troops do...It's nice to know that all of us contractors over here have such an intelligent and tactful spokesman for us...yea i'm talking about you!!!

..it's also nice to know that you are so intelligent that you seem to know so much about how much of an Idiot I am because your right all I do is eat donuts and sell paper....WOW!!!

[sandboxffwife]

One day WE ALL MEET OUR MAKER!

And NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ... for absolutely NO REASON, RATIONALIZATION, OR EXCUSE AT ALL!

DO YOUR OWN THING, MAKE THE MOST OF IT, AND BE SAFE! Aren't you all just trying to do a job you love (who cares about the who, what, where, when, and why)?

Take care,
~ Kirsten

[DeputyMarshal]

Originally posted by Rigin1
The people I admire and pray for are those that signed up to protect our country for minimal pay and got sent to that hellhole and are doing things most of us would to scared to do.
The people I admire and pray for are those that signed up to protect our country for minimal pay and got sent to Iraq for no good reason by the idiot in the White House instead. (While I also pray for the ones who signed up later knowing that they were going to Iraq, I can't say as I admire them nearly as much.)

As for WSI, I seriously considered applying but while the money that they were offering might well have justified the conditions in Iraq, it damn sure didn't come close to justifying leaving my family to fend for itself for a year while I was gone.

To any firefighter in Iraq I say, "Good luck and hang in there!" But I'll be damned if I'm going to feel sorry for any one of them who claims s/he didn't know exactly what s/he was getting into.

(In case you haven't guessed, count me as one in favor of a seperate forum for contract firefighters abroad.)

[sandboxffwife]

Because the guys complain that WSI hasn't got their sh!t together ... doesn't mean they're complaining for YOUR sympathy ... they're complaining for something to be done about it! How is NOT wanting to sit on their asses vs. wanting the right gear and equipment to do their job complaining?! And they chose to be "informative" for others ... it's called, "looking-out" ... and weighing "pros and cons". If you don't know exactly WHAT was provided by WSI via "information or contract" then how can you say we know what we got ourselves into?! And as far as CHOOSING to be away from families ... leaving us to fend for ourselves (which is VERY OVER-DRAMATIC statement) ... was NOT a decision made OVERNIGHT ... but again, that's OUR decision, OUR sacrifice, for OUR reasons! FYI: My husband doesn't miss A THING while he's gone ... technology is INCREDIBLE! And we're VERY close ... talk more NOW than we did while he was here! :D Missing him ... makes me love him more!

BRING ON THE SEPARATE FORUM ... whatever, go with the flow ...
Have a good night,
~ Kirsten

[factsaboutiraq]

I would suggest that to take the venom out of these negative posters and not allow them to continue to feed their anger, we simply reply with a two word statement……
I disagree

And then move on.
That way it stays where it should, informative for those who want information.

[sandboxffwife]

How is "Seriously enough Iraq threads" supposed to be informative? Tacoma knew exactly what he was asking for when he started this ... which is why, he was even prepared for "retaliation"?! We're ALL adults ... if you can't take it, don't dish it out!? If you don't like the topic, don't read it!? So, we've vented, we've said our peace, and even requested a separate forum ... I think we've moved on! So now, what's this thread to be about? Continuous venting about not wanting "Iraq threads" ... that'll get boring too after a few pages ... Tacoma, what to talk about now???
:D Where's the next "fire"?

Have a good and safe one,
~ Kirsten

[Firetacoma1]

Precontrol PPV?

[pickheadaxe]

For some odd reason I feel the need to apologize. I guess I judged and I should not have. Does not mean that I have changed my veiw any.
Simply stated, if you would have said " I am here supporting my troops, country....." or whatever, I might have been a little easier. Serving your country is eaxactly what our brave men and women do over here everyday. NONE of us have to do the herrendous things they do or put up with 1/3 of what they do. So, to me sir, and a good many others, you saying you serve your country by working for KBR/WSI is a complete insult and actually degrades our militaries intelligence. Do not sit there and say that by eating donuts and charging people for services that you are serving your country, supporting, is even a stretch, but tat is what it is, not serving.
So I was wrong to jump the gun and say things I should not, but I am sorry, anyone over here working as as CIVILIAN is not serving their country. I do not care who you are.
As far as the money thing........NONE of us would be here if it were not for the money. If so then you are saying that you would take this job for 25k a year and pay taxes on all of it.
Ever heard the saying, "you cannot BS a BSer" Well buddy, WSI did a number on several of us over here, you are now where close to being able to BS me. Serve my country and did not do it for the money. This whole thing is about money. SO to say you are here for any other reason in nonsense. Either that or you were not qualified to get a job back in the states anywhere.

Something to think about...............

Pickheadaxe

[tbordelone4]

I have read enough of this horse crap. If you dont like it dont click on the link. That will solve all of your problems. I have seen numerouse threads that dont need to be on firehouse. There is nothing wrong with a couple of threads about Iraq. I do agree some of the threads about Iraq are stupid,there are some such as the thread that sandboxffwife basically started are very helpfull to the us in Iraq. So stop whynning about a couple of threads and get a life.

I got your back Kirsten!lol

Troy

[turnout733]

If you look at the following info concerning the Iraq threads..

1. Number of threads
2. Number of replys
3. Number of views

You will see that they are very popular, good or bad they bring attention and hits.

If the fire service world its becoming well known. WSI, with the help of the internet, has created at least in the federal fire service world, the most complained about organization i have encountered in my 12 years of federal service. I have never seen anything like it. I can't speak for the municipal sectors.

I will admit, i will continue to follow the treads if for nothing but the entertainment value.

I agree with pickheadax to some degree. Most come for the money, but, there is some opportunity so do good for the Army i'm sure, but serving your country is not the main reason most go. Once in-country, I am sure that the patriotic spirit does get to some and reasons for staying may include that feeling of pride, being around young soldiers can do that to you.

Like it or not, and i know there is almost nothing one person can do to prevent it, but a negative lagacy is being created right here, and its being done by the firefighters, not WSI. It is the buzz among at least federal departments. We have had new people come over from stateside DOD departments and they follow the threads too. Like it or not, i think the negative posts have backfired. WSI is not being hurt, WSI is not a person, but there are persons who have to list WSI Iraq on their resumes. Like it or not, whether its me or not, when that resume is presented, that reputaion will come to mind.

[BSFFwife]

Turnout ~ Out of 500+ firefighters working in Iraq a hand full of them post. Your saying your company would toss a resume because it says WSI FIREFIGHTER on it? A public FORUM is what YOUR company uses to decide if a firefighter should be hired or not? Please let me know if I'm not understanding what you are saying. If I'm not misreading, please let us know what company you work for so the guys won't apply to a company that sound much worse than WSI. Nobody should be judged on what is being said good or bad from a public forum. What if the HANDFULL of people did not even work for WSI and were just causing entertainment. Its just crazy to think any company would work like that and no one should work for a company that did.

[factsaboutiraq]

How true

I would like to know who he works for, because funny enough, WSI is the largest contract firefighting organization in the WORLD, and maybe he will be the one who comes looking for a job! Of course that won't be until all of the hardest work is done getting Iraq started up.
Another point to be made is that most of the people that I have heard moaning and groaning are guess what???? That's right guys who have come from other contract jobs that they quit to come over here.

Go figure

[ffdave05]

To all of those who are whining (as some may call it) about WSI in Iraq. For one thing, when I signed up to come over here for 1 year, I did know what I was getting myself into. This was a decision that affected everyone, not just me, but most of all my family. For those who think that it was easy to leave, you are wrong. Do I regret my decision to come over here, sometimes when I talk with my children and they tell me about their ballgames or recitals that I have missed. The money is wonderful and the conditions aren't the best in the world, but I signed up for this. Now for the ones that say everyone is complaining, asking when the gear is coming so you can do your job safely, that is not whining or complaining. That is a FF wanting to do his/her job safely.

Yes, alot of us are here for the money. I came over here for the opportunity for an adventure and also to get some certifications that is almost impossible to recieve where I live.

WSI has issues here and back in the states, if you don't believe me, just take a look at eyeonwackenhut.com and you can see that they have problems in the states as well. So for those who are desiring what has been promised to them to do their job safely, I tip my hat off to you. I don't know if things will get better, but remember that all of us that are here, it was your own choice. There are many things that I disagree with that goes on over here, but I don't let it bother me. Just remember that when it is time for your letter of returning for a 2nd year, think of everything that has went on for the last year and make that decision with your family.

I welcome any comments on the above mentioned.

God Bless all of the Firefighters here in Iraq.

[turnout733]

You guys must be reading someone elses post or reading my "parts" of my post and then making a conclusion. Theres alot of truth to your words. Did i say i would not accept someone because of the posts? I said it come to mind, and i think about it. Geez.....

[BSFFwife]

GEEZ???

You are saying that anyone that works for WSI in Iraq has a reputation just because of what a handfull of people post. Right? Help me out here. I'm still trying to figure this company out that you work for.

[pickheadaxe]

You guys are off the chain.......

Read what the guy is saying here.......NO not everyone is going to be looked upon like that, but it will raise questions. And you guys say the whiners are bad. GEEESH........

As far as the biggest fire contract compnay in the world, well if all it takes is to hire 534 people and put the word firefighter in front of it, then I should try it. I have no clue about the biggest in the world, but I caan say that I have worked with volunteer departments that are way better than this place is operated. I come from a REAL department where we FIGHT fire, have real equipment to work with, and where gear is issued when you arrive for work on your first day. Not only that, but have officers that are a.) qualified to be there through their certs, or b.) have been with tht e department so long that they have earned we normal firefighters call "TOTJ", time on the job. Not one of the persons representing this depart. of it's admin have either. Speaking from experience from both a REAL depart. and thhis mickey mouse show over here, I would never leave another REAL department again for this oor any other contract.
And for those of you who thin it is a select few, might want to think again. Just mainly those of us who have a little time in over here post. As well the gear thing, if only a hand full of people are MISSING GEAR, then why did a memo come down last week to SHARE GEAR so everyone can gain 16 hrs and have the oppurtunity to do equal work on the engines and such!!! Like I said, about 70% of our personnel are without grear.
As far as some people coming back, in an email that I recieved today from a friend that does not want to come back but is, because he could not find something to fit his new "lifestyle" That is the catch folks, WSI pays you this money to spend it and get used to having it in your pocket or getting anything you want when you want it. Not to mention some people have to get the benis and such as well. I simply told him to get a new "lifstyle". As I have said before and will say till the day I die, I sold one year of my life to the devil, I will never do it again nor will most other people.
No matter what anyone says, THESE ARE THE TRUTHS ABOUT what is going on over here. People are being forced to travel through a "death trap" just to fill out a couple sheets of paper. The do not greese yo before you get here, but they want to greese you before you leave. In a know website, the lead terrorist has said that the airport is his prime target, that does not seem to matter to our folks that do not have to travel outside of HQ on a regular basis, or they just get the ole, never get shot down mil ride!!!!
Another thing, how many of you would consider child birth, abuse of a child noted by police, family memeber hospitalised, and so on a family emergency? What would you do if you were told no and not given a reason? Happens all the time here...........

Pickheadaxe

[factsaboutiraq]

Pick,
I disagree

[turnout733]

BSFFWife...

P E R C E P T I O N-does not have to be the truth or fact, its a human characteristic.

Like i said before, it sucks, its not fair but its life.

Scenerio, it happens in movies and real life: You have someone arrested and tried for a crime. He is aquitted. But, you know what, because of some of our human qualities, most people will never forget and always wonder, did he do it? Many will beleive he had a good lawyer and simply got off. It sucks, but its a part of being human. We can get pissed about it, but what are we getting pissed about, the perception or the person that mentioned the perception.

Or, we can do this...stand straight as possible, concantrate, bring all your strength to bear and slam your head into the sand as hard and fast as possible....That way you can't hear or see anything, so no problems. Take your pick.

[turnout733]

For you guys info...

WSI Iraq is not the only Middle East Fire Contractor. Lets see..

1.Turkey-KBR (partnered with Vinnel I belive)
2.Qatar-ITT
Kuwait-CSA
3.Bahrain-PAE Group-Middle East Fire Academy for Iraq Firefighters (and one DOD Fire Chief position)
4.Saudi-Vinnel
5.Uzbekisatan-KBR
6.Afhganistan-KBR
7.Egypt-AECOM (and one of its partners)

Its a big world. WSI simply did the biggest advertising campaign. The other contacts are mostly insider information because there are usually no problems getting qualified and certified people. Its understandable why any contract in Iraq would have trouble compared to the above.

[ffdave05]

Turnout733,

I appreciate the time you took to list all of the other Fire Service Contractors that there are over in the Middle East.

I have heard others that have come from other contract Fire Fighting jobs and most have said that things here are different and could be better. I agree that they could be a whole lot better, but when you don't see any attempt other than words, it gets very frustrating. I still don't think that is whining, but we have the right to disagree.

I have a while to go with my contract and I will finish it out, I am hoping to get some gear soon, but if I don't then I just wait longer. It is not worth getting all upset about something that I cannot change. The ones that are more outspoken than others, they are being heard. The contract is still up in the air, even though it was suppose to be signed by the end of May. We will get through everything that is happening over here eventually.

BSFFWife, I think that we have talked before. Does it stand for Berrien Springs? Oronoko? Let me know.

Mr Blom, good seeing you on the forums.

Pickhead, relax man, your close to going home, don't rock the boat for all of us that still have alot of time left. Watch out for the twinkie man...

[turnout733]

I never heard of half of these places till i arrive in the Middle east. Once you are aorund for a while, get your certifications alot of doors start opening up.

make your goal, look at it and don't let other peoples gripes pull you from that. I'm sure it sucks there but it will end, everyone can move on to bigger and better things. But whats going on can hurt alot of people.

The Kuwait, Turkey and Qatar contracts are pretty normal fire service contracts. Laid back countries, but with good tax free pay. Bahrai(PAE Group) has a contract where they train Iraqi firefighters who are sent over, then they return to Iraq. The contract in Egypt i hear has low pay compared to the rest of the Middle East because its in a nice place and they have zero problems recruiting. Saudi, well saudi is not a place i would want to go but the pay is comparable to the other contracts.

Most of the other middle east conatrcts go like this:

Expect to work 48-72 hours a week, $55k-65k a year tax free, housing and transportation paid, 2 plane tickets a year paid. Thats about the normal range for a firefighter. Its goes up with promotion of course.

www.dodfire.com usually has jobs posted.

[ffdave05]

Turnout,

All of those listed in one of your replies is on the DOD site?

I plan on hanging in there until the end. I agree that some can make it bad for others that are already here or put bad images in others heads before they arrive. The only thing that I can say is you have to be here to understand what is happening and what isn't. So it is up to yourself to make it whatever you want it to be, it can be an adventure or you can make it miserable for yourself and everyone else. This base isn't bad, we have issues that I am sure others are having as well. But as I said earlier, make it what you want it to be. I guess decide if the battle is worth fighting or is it something that can be won?

I am heading home very soon on a R&R and can't wait to see my family. It is very important to have the full support of your family or it will be very hard to be here.

Are you at any base here or have you been at any of the other Fire Contract service jobs overseas?

Thanks for the reply

[BSFFwife]

Dave ~ You have it right. Hope you are doing ok. Enjoy your R&R with you family. I will be meeting Todd out of the Country his next R&R. He still says he will do another year. Time will tell. Be safe. Lori

[ffdave05]

I thought that was you Lori, but wasn't sure. Todd already had his 1st R&R didn't he? Things are fine here, just really hot as expected. I normally don't post in here, but I felt that it was needed. You understand that everything isn't rosy over here, but you remember where Todd was at back in the states.

I remember Todd saying that he was going to be doing more than 1 year, wow. Where did he end up after what happened to his last base. You can email me if you don't want to post it here. I haven't heard from him in a while.

Thanks for supporting us over here.

[BSFFwife]

Dave ~ Sent you an email. Lori

[garypoe4454]

Fired fireman sues defense contractor
Man says he was assaulted before he was dismissed
By Bill Myers
Examiner Staff Writer
Published: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:22 PM EST
E-mail this story | Print this page

Gary Lovett, a former D.C. firefighter, claims he was fired from his contracting job after being attacked by his supervisor in Iraq. Jay Westcott/Examiner
When the Sept. 11 attacks came, D.C. firefighter Gary Lovett says he "got Pearl Harbor syndrome." He left the District after a 23-year career and shipped off, first to Saudi Arabia, then to Afghanistan and then to Iraq, to "do my thing for God and country."

But he says his willingness to take up the fireman's burden met sloth and heathen folly - and his hopes were brought to naught - when his boss assaulted him and then had him fired.

Last week, Lovett, 51, of Rockville, filed a six-figure breach-of-contract suit in D.C. Superior Court against the boss and Wackenhut Services Inc., the defense contractor that initially had hired him.


The hard-talking, hard-living Lovett says he was doing good work for the Marines in Fallujah. But he says that his supervisor - who "wasn't cut out for the job" and was "under enormous undue pressure" - "wigged out" in separate confrontations over training and procedure.

In the second confrontation, Lovett claims the boss grabbed him by the collar and slammed him into a trailer.



"Now I'm not saying I'm the most efficient manager in the world. I've got foibles - ask my wife. But [Wackenhut officials] had their kangaroo court and they found that I was guilty," Lovett said.

Lovett says he's been unable to find work since his firing last March.

His lawyer, Adele L. Abrams, said the suit should serve as a whiff of grapeshot for scheming defense contractors.



"These contractors are out there exploiting the people they bring over â€- who put themselves on the line," Abrams said.

Wackenhut CEO James L. Long called Lovett's claims "ridiculous."

"I have 550 people over there and you're welcome to call all of them and you'll get 550 people telling you that it's the most absurd thing they've ever heard," he

said.

SEEKING RETRIBUTION

- The suit seeks $10,000 in "actual" damages - back wages, bonuses and the contents of a foot locker allegedly kept by the company.

- It seeks an additional $300,000 in punitive damages.

- Wackenhut's Iraq contract is worth about $80 million.

[fire161]

do you all have nothing better to do then argue over what should be posted that is why i bet you are all just nozle men lets grow up and have some damn respect for the guys over seas and let them post what they want.

[FireKillr]

ff

Okay, I have read through all the postings up to now......I am going to stick out my neck for ya'll to cut off, but here goes...

Does WSI have problems? Hell yes. But what department back home doesn't. I have been in the fire service for 22 years now. I have served all three gambits, volly, part-time and full-time. EVERY department had it good and bad, whiners and criers, troublemakers and yes, HORRIBLE leadership. But the main thing was to make do and do something about it. Here in Iraq, that is what some of us are trying to accomplish. Taking the leadership classes to get the promotions so that we can do the right thing for the guys, the right way, and just toe the company line.

Is WSI getting any better? Not to slam my own company, but that is the only way it can go. Just like any fire department at home.....this is a multi million dollar BUSINESS. Our departments stateside are just the same, BUSINESSES. Anyone out there that has been around when departments start up, new stations and equipment are brought in, there are problems.

Did they hire correctly? HELL NO. How can say that they hired correctly when you have 19 year olds over here. What happened to the 3 years experiance. I'm sorry but Explorer time does not count. Certs are just paper. We have all heard and even seen the fake cards and certs that people have. I agree with the earlier post....TOTJ. It does take experiance, honesty, but above all, MATURITY.

Money? DUH !! I came here for it, and if anyone out there says differant your lying. Yes, it is to pay off debts, aid in my daughters college fund, and buy me a few extra cold ones! :D

All I'm trying to say, is WE make it what it is. I am a combat firefighter. I am serving my country by providing the fire protection, inspections and sitting on my ass time so that the soldiers can be freed up to do what is really needed over here. Like many others over here, there is incoming, three pieces of our apparatus have motor damage.

KBR is a problem with our gear, parts, etc....but that is what happens in BUSINESS when you have to rely on the parent company to give you what you need. The child is always secondary.

Lastly.........sorry so long...........remember that the Hiarchy in Baghdad reads along with all this. TRUST ME. Some care, some are just like a few of you out there, whinning, crying, but loving every other Friday!

No mater what, take care and be careful, get home, drink a cold one, and hug your better half and kids. They are what's important.