About Karl Rove

[scfire86]

Does anyone else think he should be fired or at the very least be told to leave?

Given the previous statements how the White House had no involvement in leaking Valerie Plame's identity, we know that to be untrue.

Bush said if a person did that he would no longer work for him.

Scott McClellan said it was ridiculous to insinuate that Rove was involved in this matter.

It seems all those statements are now true.

[scfire86]

90 minutes and 35 viewings later not one comment.

I guess it's okay to put intelligence agents at risk when it can be done for political gain.

Who knew?

[RoughRider]

OK, I'll bite. All you have to do is read the NY Times article (No friend of Republicans) last week to know there is no weight to some of these far left claims. Imagine, the Times defending Rove. I’ll try to dig out the article if you would like to read it. That and other material available makes this a non story unless more damaging info is released. There's no illegality here. They are after him because they see a partisan opening, a partisan opportunity. Nothing was proven either way. From what I have been reading:

1. Bush is on record saying he will fire anyone on his staff that was guilty of a crime. This clearly is not the case.

2. Valerie Plame's name was circulating the beltway well before the Novak article. He testified under oath to a Grand Jury that he denied giving her name. So, well see. If what I have read is correct she was 6 years past her last field assignment and therefore not classified as an operative. Therefore Plame couldn’t have been "outed" or put in harms way.

There is more to this story as well. Like Joe Wilson outed as being a complete fraud as most of his claims regarding Niger were proven false by the Senate Intelligence Report.

If Rove broke a law he should be fired and prosecuted.

Notice how this article uses the term involvement when referring to Rove.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

I recently made a pledge to keep my opinions to myself. To listen and learn as much as I could about firefighting and grant writing from you and the other good folks that post on this forum.

But since you asked.
:) :)

[scfire86]

Originally posted by RoughRider
There's no illegality here. They are after him because they see a partisan opening, a partisan opportunity. Nothing was proven either way. From what I have been reading:

1. Bush is on record saying he will fire anyone on his staff that was guilty of a crime. This clearly is not the case.

Yet his first comments didn't include the illegality stipulation.


2. Valerie Plame's name was circulating the beltway well before the Novak article. He testified under oath to a Grand Jury that he denied giving her name. So, well see. If what I have read is correct she was 6 years past her last field assignment and therefore not classified as an operative. Therefore Plame couldn’t have been "outed" or put in harms way.

She still had cover status. And what about her field contacts?


There is more to this story as well. Like Joe Wilson outed as being a complete fraud as most of his claims regarding Niger were proven false by the Senate Intelligence Report.

How so? The WMD's have never been found. For good reason. And the weapons capability of Hussein was suspect.


If Rove broke a law he should be fired and prosecuted.

Agreed.



How about this letter that has been written by former CIA operatives?

18 July 2005
AN OPEN STATEMENT TO THE LEADERS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE.
The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives
The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate
The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate

We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the
tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of
Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of
former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert
Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an
undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful
event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have
damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S.
intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of
confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and,
directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers
and their sources.

The Republican National Committee has circulated talking points to
supporters to use as part of a coordinated strategy to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson
and his wife. As part of this campaign a common theme is
the idea that Ambassador Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame was not undercover
and deserved no protection. The following are four recent examples of this
“talking point”:

Michael Medved stated on Larry King Live on July 12, 2005, “And let's
be honest about this. Mrs. Plame, Mrs. Wilson, had a desk job
at Langley. She went back and forth every single day.”

Victoria Toensing stated on a Fox News program with John Gibson on
July 12, 2005 that, “Well, they weren't taking affirmative
measures to protect that identity. They gave her a desk job in
Langley. You don't really have somebody deep undercover
going back and forth to Langley, where people can see them.”

Ed Rodgers, Washington Lobbyist and former Republican official, said
on July 13, 2005 on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer, “And also I think
it is now a matter of established fact that Mrs. Plame was not a
protected covert agent, and I don't think there's any
meaningful investigation about that.”

House majority whip Roy Blunt (R, Mo), on Face the Nation, July 17,
2005, “It certainly wouldn't be the first time that the CIA might
have been overzealous in sort of maintaining the kind of topsecret
definition on things longer than they needed to. You
know, this was a job that the ambassador's wife had that she
went to every day. It was a desk job. I think many people in
Washington understood that her employment was at the CIA,
and she went to that office every day.”

These comments reveal an astonishing ignorance of the intelligence
community and the role of cover. The fact is that there are thousands of
U.S. intelligence officers who “work at a desk” in the Washington, D.C. area
every day who are undercover. Some have official cover, and some have
non-official cover. Both classes of cover must and should be protected.
While we are pleased that the U.S. Department of Justice is conducting an
investigation and that the U.S. Attorney General has recused himself, we
believe that the partisan attacks against Valerie Plame are sending a deeply
discouraging message to the men and women who have agreed to work
undercover for their nation’s security.

We are not lawyers and are not qualified to determine whether the leakers
technically violated the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. However,
we are confident that Valerie Plame was working in a cover status and that
our nation’s leaders, regardless of political party, have a duty to protect all
intelligence officers. We believe it is appropriate for the President to move
proactively to dismiss from office or administratively punish any official who
participated in any way in revealing Valerie Plame's status. Such an act by
the President would send an unambiguous message that leaks of this nature
will not be tolerated and would be consistent with his duties as the
Commander-in-Chief.

We also believe it is important that Congress speak with one non-partisan
voice on this issue. Intelligence officers should not be used as political
footballs. In the case of Valerie Plame, she still works for the CIA and is not
in a position to publicly defend her reputation and honor. We stand in her
stead and ask that Republicans and Democrats honor her service to her
country and stop the campaign of disparagement and innuendo aimed at
discrediting Mrs. Wilson and her husband.

Our friends and colleagues have difficult jobs gathering the intelligence,
which helps, for example, to prevent terrorist attacks against Americans at
home and abroad. They sometimes face great personal risk and must spend
long hours away from family and friends. They serve because they love this
country and are committed to protecting it from threats from abroad and to
defending the principles of liberty and freedom. They do not expect public
acknowledgement for their work, but they do expect and deserve their
government’s protection of their covert status.

For the good of our country, we ask you to please stand up for every man
and woman who works for the U.S. intelligence community and help protect
their ability to live their cover.
Sincerely yours,
______________________________ _______
Larry C. Johnson, former Analyst, CIA
JOINED BY:
Mr. Brent Cavan, former Analyst, CIA
Mr. Vince Cannistraro, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. Michael Grimaldi, former Analyst, CIA
Mr. Mel Goodman, former senior Analyst, CIA
Col. W. Patrick Lang (US Army retired), former Director, Defense Humint
Services, DIA
Mr. David MacMichael, former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence
Council, CIA
Mr. James Marcinkowski, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. Ray McGovern, former senior Analyst and PDB Briefer, CIA
Mr. Jim Smith, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. William C. Wagner, former Case Officer, CIA

Secondly, why was Valerie Plame brought into this in the first place? Rove is on record as saying "She's fair game". What does that mean? I recall Bush was going to bring 'dignity and honor' back to the White House. Can you explain the 'dignity and honor' in stating that someone's spouse is 'fair game'? Would this smear job be considered a partisan attack as well?

[nmfire]

Originally posted by scfire86
90 minutes and 35 viewings later not one comment.

I guess it's okay to put intelligence agents at risk when it can be done for political gain.

Who knew?

Or people have lives and other things to do besides instantly drop everything immidiately to engage in a political debate with you. Who knew.... not you.

[DennisTheMenace]

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