more combo-dept's in jersey or just jackson?

[DougVelting]

Ive noticed a trend in jackson, more than likely due to the high number of homes being built in recent years. Just a short number of years ago the whole town was volunteer, with only the Fire Prevention Bureau's having paid staff. Now all 4 companies in town are at least combi and it seems as tho 2 are on their way to being full paid depts. (ease up, not ripping on paid guys just an observation)

I was just curious if this was something happening in Jackson alone or is everyone else starting to see a trend where a day-time staff is the minimum?

[EngCo29]

Hmm, nothing like that over here in Burlington except some companies like Evesham having day crews,Medford,Willingboro,Burl ington City all day crews,some career but not in my section of the cotuny all volly.

[FFTide]

Middlesex County here;

Full Paid;
New Brunswick


24 Hour Combo;
Carteret
Woodbridge (town of, the Twp. is volunteer)
Perth Amboy (basically paid w/ volly corp.)
Edison (Same as Perth Amboy)
Monroe (each station has a crew and filled out with volunteers)

Daytime Combo;
Old Bridge (2 of 4 districts have at least 2 guys on in the AM)

There are some other situations out there I know I'm missing, like I think Highland park has a paid cheif on during the day as a driver.


Volunteer... everyone else

[Bones42]

Lakewood, Ocean County has a paid "staff" of 2 FF's. They are supplemented by volunteers.

There were a couple of departments in southern Monmouth County that were paying a guy to be their daytime driver. Basically was more of a maintenance man that was at the building waiting for others to show.



When the personnell are not showing up during the day (for various resaons) you have to do what you have to do to keep answering the calls. If that means paying a guy or two, then that's what needs to be done....although, not really sure what good 1 guy alone is going to do, but it's a start.

[BD6413]

Down in the Southern Section of New Jersey Combination Departments have started popping up and continue to do so. More and More Daytime Responses and less and less Responders promted this. {Hey Volunteers have to work and the engines still need to get out}

Deptford Township, Washington Township, Gloucester Township, Voorhees Township just to mention a few still have strong volunteer bases but do need and utilize mainly Daytime Stafing for Engine / Ladder / Rescue Crews between 7am and 5pm.

[tanker5117]

Must be a south jersey thing. We have a few combo dept.s up here, but not many. Most are all Volunteer.

Tanker

[DougVelting]

I realize the trucks have to roll if we working or not, was just curious if the other towns were "evolving" as fast as ours. We're the last one in town with a small paid "staff" most are running crews. Was just a curiousity question.

[FFTide]

My town is still 100% volunteer. I would prefer as DougVelting said, to have a small staff than a crew. I think 2-3 guys on in the daytime supplementing the normal volunteers is a much easier and ameniable situation to the volunteers than a paid crew. That's when you start to feel some of your presteige and ownership over the company get taken away.

Just my 2 cents.

[BD6413]

Originally posted by FFTide
My town is still 100% volunteer. I would prefer as DougVelting said, to have a small staff than a crew. I think 2-3 guys on in the daytime supplementing the normal volunteers is a much easier and ameniable situation to the volunteers than a paid crew. That's when you start to feel some of your presteige and ownership over the company get taken away.

Just my 2 cents.

Sure on the surface this makes sense but 2-3 guys on in the daytime supplementing the normal volunteers ? This couldn't be more dangerous in my opinion and here's why.....

1. How do you follow the 2 in 2 out rule with three guys ?
2. What's a crew of 2 guys going to do when they arrive at a well involved structure with entrappment ?

Why is it an easier and ameniable situation to the volunteers than having a paid crew ? Oh our company is going to sh** because we have career staff or we might loose our presteige if the paid people are here ? Come on cut me a break I hear this everyday when I come to work. Do you honestly think the general public cares if Volunteers or Career Staffing answer their emergency ?

Having a Paid Crew at least in the daytime can only help when so many departments through out NJ are strapped. I work for a combination department in Delaware and they have finally recognized tht they can't do it all with out us and very much apprecieate our presence especially with the ambulance. We opperate 24/7 with the Volunteers and it's a system that works. - No apparatus leaves with out a qualified crew {something like the 2-3 guys that what was previously mentioned} even if we're on board with Volunteers - It's their company, thier equipment and we fall under the direction of thier Fire Chief and his designates.

[FFTide]

In response to BD6413: I would never expect a 2 or 3 man engine to roll and start any kind of attack/rescue, but the purpose of paid (combination) staff isn't to leave at the drop of the tones but to wait and supplement the volunteers who may show. 2 paid crew and 2 or 3 volunteers, that's how this structure is supposed to work, or at least that's my understanding.

[Bones42]

1. How do you follow the 2 in 2 out rule with three guys ? I give him all the well wishes in the world, but as I said above Lakewood rolls with 1 paid guy in a mini-pumper to every call. That 1 guy has made lots of stops and "knock downs" waiting for the vols to arrive. There is no concern (unfortunately) for 2in 2out. Used to be that he would arrive, drag his line in, get water on the fire until the vols arrived. Then he'd reel up his hose and leave to be available for another call and let the vols continue that one. Not a great system, nowhere near OSHA/NFPA standards, but it works for them. No EMS though, they have a separate EMS vol department that handles all EMS calls.

Aren't there a lot of smaller paid departments that normally run only 2 or 3 on their trucks?

[bgcjmc]

Borough of Bergenfield, (Bergen County), utilizes paid drivers during the day, 100% vollie at night. Pretty interesting to see a 110' LTI screaming down Washington Avenue with one guy on it. Then when you go to the scene there are, say four rigs there, with four members. Amazing!!

[FDNY101TRUCK]

We here in Hunterdon County are all 100% volunteer, but I think having 2 or 4 guys paid during the day would help alot because there are times when no one is around to run those calls.

[PFDTruck2]

Out here in Warren County where 100% Volunteer. We are lucky at our Department we have a couple guys that work nights and some people that work in town and can leave.

[SAFDENG506]

Perth Amboy Fire is a Combi department.. They have Paid-Firefighters/Emt/Paramedics on 24/7 and if major incidents arise they call in for the Volunteer Lists

[Engine58]

Just because they are a paramedic in their other job doesnt mean they have them in the department....

[career1962]

Ive noticed a trend in jackson, more than likely due to the high number of homes being built in recent years. Just a short number of years ago the whole town was volunteer, with only the Fire Prevention Bureau's having paid staff. Now all 4 companies in town are at least combi and it seems as tho 2 are on their way to being full paid depts. (ease up, not ripping on paid guys just an observation)

I was just curious if this was something happening in Jackson alone or is everyone else starting to see a trend where a day-time staff is the minimum?



BYE BYE VOLLIES

[MEck51]

I see a couple of points brought about here.
First, in response to what are you going to do with 2 or 3 guys rolling up on a fire w/ entrapment.
Same thing as you would with a vollie crew of 2 or 3, sure you can tell me you don't roll without 4 or 5. That's great. Instead you sit in station waiting when you could be getting on scene and finding out what you have. Maybe you just need to throw a ladder to get someone out. Maybe you have a pot on the stove smokin the whole building out and someone hit the panic button. At least get there and find out. I know of a vollie co. very near me that had to drop tones 3 times for a structure fire and still the next town had to come and take the fire because they couldn't get a truck out. I know this isn't everywhere, but I am sure it happens in many places. Lets face it, volunteerism is in decline, everywhere and in every facet not just firefighting.
Second, 2 in 2 out.
It doesn't happen all the time. It is great when you can do it. But in the meantime, you might be able to get 10 feet into a doorway and make a knockdown from there. Coommon sense should be the first thought.

Someone stated about losing prestige and ownership. What in the hell is that, we are here to help people and save lives, you are worried about pride and thinking you own the place. Please tell me you did not mean it to come across like that. If you did mean it like I took it, take your blue light and go home. You are here for all the wrong reasons.


Finaly, career1962, take a hike. What works for one place might not work for another. As long as your respective town has a system that works, that is what matters. I am proud to be career, but I don't expect everytown to be paid, it is not fiscaly responsible for most towns. Take your crap stirring elsewhere.

[career1962]

Some towns don't have a system that works and it's seems just fine for the chiefs and the townships that are responsible for fire protection to look the other way when a truck does not show up when dispatched- or if they do- it is with a driver and a chief if lucky a probie to- a response time that is 10 to 15 minutes - firefighters that are 80 + years old who drive the fire truck but can not pump it-unfortunately thats the TRUTH and REALITY-imagine if your career department did not respond to a call when dispatched or responded 15 minutes from dispatch -BYE BYE- Its reality in my vollie town that has to have someone die before things change-you must be a moonlighting vollie so you know the crap I talk is true

[MEck51]

Yeah, alot of these issues are true. But your view is still blurred. How is a town with 1000 or less people going to support a paid dept? How high would the taxes have to be to support not only equip, but payroll? When you finaly get that amount of $ how many people are going to move out because they can't afford their taxes? Thus your career postions get eliminated. I agree you get what you pay for and yes there are plenty of depts. that run with a much older crowd. But how are these towns to afford paid fire protection 24/7? You try to make it sound like everytown should break the bank to try and support what they can't. I guess your dept. makes good money, has all new frontline pieces with all the state of the art equip., 2 or 3 sets of turnout gear in case a set gets dirty. All of this is supplied regardless of what your citizens can afford. If there are so many problems with your vollie dept. in your town get off your ass and try to help things. Don't sit on the sidelines and complain this would never happen in my paid dept. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. And if you do finaly decide to help in whatever means you are capable and you get your paid dept. in your town, let us all know how much better your taxes are, and how you are not going to complain that money is being taken out of your pocket. And for your info I don't vollie anywhere, I am just not so close minded that I can't see the forest thru the trees. So before you start making statements about me of which you have not even the slightest clue, MAN UP and put the facts out there about yourself, everyone is able to click on my profile and find out about me. Lets find out about you, where did you start, where are you going to end up with your limited knowledge about fire service managment and budgeting?

[PFDTruck2]

Very well said Meck51.

And career1962 I've been a vollie since 82 and have never had a problem getting the equipment out the door. I live 2 blocks from the house and am usually the 2nd one there.

[career1962]

You don't need to know about me- I speak about reality and put it out there -for you to understand that 1st responder fire departments who respond when dispatched within 4-6 minutes is demanded of any community and the budget of these communiies must reflect it - I'M sure towns with 1000 people or less have police protection why not capable fire protection

[career1962]

Very well said Meck51.

And career1962 I've been a vollie since 82 and have never had a problem getting the equipment out the door. I live 2 blocks from the house and am usually the 2nd one there.


You and a driver

[MEck51]

Thanks for proving my point about you having no knowledge about budgeting. If you realisticly beleive a town of 1,000 persons can afford a paid dept. you are nuts.

[career1962]

No I'm not -it's been done in plenty of towns who are responsible about fire protection

[MEck51]

So start a list. Lets here it. Prove what you say, don't just come on here saying that you know things, prove it. And not only that how about you tell me how many guys these towns are staffing and what kind of coverage. I don't want to here about towns that are contracting out to other paid dept.s. I want real facts, of which you have not been able to prove. So far all you have done is come in here and make attacks about vollie depts and how they can't provide adequete protection. Why not go a step further, get me some ISO ratings to prove your points. You know what they are don't you? You know how they are scored right? I can tell you for a fact that there are plenty of undermanned paid dept.s. So do they provide adequete protection? Why aren't they properly staffed, Oh that's right money, same issue as the vollie departments. I pray for dept.s sake that you don't ever get a managment postion because your maladjusted views on fiscal responsibility and reality would run it right into the ground. Until you can actualy bring something to the table other than a negative opinion you might as well not post, because I can tell you flat out I WILL make an ass of you every time.

[PFDTruck2]

You and a driver

Normally we have 4 sometimes 3 and on a good day 7. When was the last time your truck left the house with seven?

[career1962]

Meck51 being a union member you should know the depts I talk of - you are a union member right- Tom Canzanella is your President - obviousely not a loyal member- So this is my last post to you- remember IAFF vollie moonlighting is not a good idea

[MEck51]

OK, First Schitbalger or however you spell his name is the general pres. of the IAFF Canzella is the NJPFA pres. So I guess you are not as in tune as you like to claim. Second in case you forgot I don't vollie anywhere. Furthermore it is people like you that keep the fire service from banding together like it should so that we can start getting some of the grant money to do the things cops are now starting to do. **** for that matter we could be getting more money to put more career guys on the street, bet your closed mind never thought of that did ya? Remember when haz-mat was a FD thing. And still you have not brought any facts to the table, probably because you can't back anything you say, and you are still not saying who you are or where you are from, if I had to guess it would be because you know the things you type are complete crap. Now that I have clicked over to a different thread , I see you are in a combo dept. Good just like me. I venture to say the reason your vollies don't show up anymore at fires is because of guys with your attitude. Maybe if you would try to help the problem instead of complaining your system would work better.