Mayor of San Francisco has lost it- he wants to use fire trucks to help battle crime

[superchef]

SAN FRANCISCO
Newsom wants to use fire trucks to help battle crime
He would plant firefighters in their rigs on street corners
Rachel Gordon, Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writers

Tuesday, March 8, 2005

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom suggested Monday that the city park fire trucks and their crews on streets in violence-prone neighborhoods to deter crime.

A thug, he suggested, would be less likely to shoot someone in front of a firefighter.

"I'm throwing this out there,'' Newsom said at a City Hall meeting attended by the police and fire chiefs and top aides in his administration. "I just think it may be a good thing.''

His idea is to pull the firefighters out of their firehouses, where they're stationed when not responding to fires and medical emergencies, and plant them in their rigs nearby -- visible to the public. There are 43 fire stations in San Francisco.

Newsom floated the idea in response to a recent surge in homicides in the city. There have been 19 so far this year, compared with 13 by this time in 2004.

But unlike last year, when the killings were concentrated in and around the public housing projects in the southeast part of the city, this year's have been spread out in different neighborhoods.

Deputy Chief Morris Tabak, who is in charge of investigations for the Police Department, described the recent increase as "a blip.''

He said the killings stemmed mainly from personal spats rather than gang disputes, which accounted for many of the homicides in early 2004. Last year's homicide rate eased in the second half of the year as police focused on hot- spot areas and chronic criminals.

Police Department statistics show that reported crime is down slightly in the public housing developments in Potrero Hill, Hunters Point and Sunnydale. In January 2004, there were 131 reported offenses. In January 2005, there were 113.

For the most part, Tabak said, the slayings this year have been incidents "that no amount of proactive police work can prevent, unless you have a police officer on every corner.''

And with resources limited, that's not going to happen. "We can't be everywhere at once,'' said Newsom, who added he is not satisfied that enough is being done to quell the violence. "I think the homicide rate is outrageous. This is my biggest burden.''

He said the city needs to look beyond traditional policing and consider creative tactics, such as putting fire trucks on the streets. There already are plans in the works to park city ambulances in outlying neighborhoods later this year so they can respond to calls faster.

Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White said the mayor's idea for the firefighters might have merit, but she stopped short of endorsing it.

"I agree there may be some deterrent to having apparatus deployed out there,'' Hayes-White said.

Firefighters union chief John Hanley agreed but raised a number of concerns, with the safety of his members topping the list.

"We're firefighters. We're not armed. My guys don't have bulletproof vests,'' Hanley said.

And the one weapon firefighters do have readily available isn't an option, Hanley said. "We don't train fire hoses on people in San Francisco,'' he said.

Police Capt. Rick Bruce of the Bayview Station said that while the district does have high-crime spots such as Third and Newcomb streets, he wasn't sure the plan was workable.

"Unless we are going to place people there for 24 hours, you have no guarantee they are going to be present when the crime occurs,'' Bruce said.

Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said putting a city vehicle on the streets, even a non-police car such as an ambulance, has a deterrent effect.

"It does give people pause -- maybe somebody who is wondering about a particular area might think, 'This area gets a little crazy, so we'll go someplace a little quieter,' '' Suhr said.

But Police Chief Heather Fong is concerned that stationing fire trucks at potential crime scenes could mean crews would be tied up as crime witnesses rather than being available to respond to an emergency, Suhr said.

"She intends to have further dialogue with Hayes-White about the feasibility of the proposal,'' Suhr said.

Firefighters at Station 17 at Shafter Avenue and Ingalls Street, a few blocks from several southeastern housing projects, were cool to the idea.

One firefighter, who didn't want his name used for fear of retribution, said his job is to put out fires, not fight crime. Fire engine companies won't respond to shootings or stabbings until police tell them the scene is secure, the firefighter said.

"Nobody signed up for this job to sit on the corner and play security guard," he said.

Police said Monday there was little chance that stepped-up official presence on the streets would have headed off the city's latest killing.

Eric Broussard, 28, was shot to death at Palou Avenue and Rankin Street in the Bayview around 4 a.m., authorities said.

He and friends had been drinking and heckled two men as they walked by, apparently mistaking them for women, authorities said. One of the men opened fire, killing Broussard and wounding a 25-year-old man.

Chronicle staff writer Wyatt Buchanan contributed to this report.E-mail the writers at rgordon@sfchronicle.com and jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com.

[StayBack500FT]

Not good...not good at all.

[bobsnyder]

Idiot.

[MalahatTwo7]

*Malahat pushes his way through the media crowd*:

'Suse me... 'suse me.... pardon me... Excuse me Sir, but may I have some of whatever it is you are sniffing? I think it must be even better than BC Bud, cuz WOW MAN...... :mad: I think you are ONE CAARRRRAAAZZZZYYYYYYY DUDE!

[tanker5117]

I think you are ONE CAARRRRAAAZZZZYYYYYYY DUDE!


Not the word I was thinking of for this mayor. :mad: :mad:


Tanker

[nmfire]

Is this guy for real???? :eek: :eek:

[stm4710]

Firefighters should NOT be used to fight crime. How about the cops get off there arse and fight crime! I didnt see any plan by the mayor to expand or utilize the police department.

A SCUMBAG will not think twice about shooting someone wether there is a firetruck, police car,dump truck or whatever!!!!!!! He's going to shoot that person. The only real deterrent is to make these low life's gets jobs and off welfare or kill each other! Not needlessly risk firefighters lives doing someone else's job.

RANT OFF!

Cheffie, just curious.........is the police department or fire departments contract up for renewal?

[superchef]

As soon as my anger at the sheer stupdity of this calms down, I do believe it is time for another letter to Mayor Newsom. There have been enough stories posted here about firefighters being shot at and having rocks etc thrown at them.

I know what we can do. Let's pull the politicians out of their offices when they are not responding and park them on the corners. Who would shoot a politician? :rolleyes:

[MalahatTwo7]

Tanker, you are correct, that really isnt the proper word to use, but the words I did have dont translate well here.... :(

[SamsonFCDES]

Never bring a Axe to a gunfight son.

[Steamer]

Originally posted by superchef
A thug, he suggested, would be less likely to shoot someone in front of a firefighter. Or just shoot the firefighter too.

"I'm throwing this out there,'' Newsom said at a City Hall meeting attended by the police and fire chiefs and top aides in his administration. "I just think it may be a good thing.'' Throw him out there.

His idea is to pull the firefighters out of their firehouses, where they're stationed when not responding to fires and medical emergencies, and plant them in their rigs nearby -- visible to the public. There are 43 fire stations in San Francisco.

Newsom floated the idea in response to a recent surge in homicides in the city. There have been 19 so far this year, compared with 13 by this time in 2004.

But unlike last year, when the killings were concentrated in and around the public housing projects in the southeast part of the city, this year's have been spread out in different neighborhoods.

Deputy Chief Morris Tabak, who is in charge of investigations for the Police Department, described the recent increase as "a blip.''

He said the killings stemmed mainly from personal spats rather than gang disputes, which accounted for many of the homicides in early 2004. Last year's homicide rate eased in the second half of the year as police focused on hot- spot areas and chronic criminals. Sounds to me like a (half-assed) band-aid for the problem of not enough cops. Here's a novel idea...maybe it's indiciative of a largely ineffective if not failed court system.

For the most part, Tabak said, the slayings this year have been incidents "that no amount of proactive police work can prevent, unless you have a police officer on every corner.''

And with resources limited, that's not going to happen. "We can't be everywhere at once,'' said Newsom, who added he is not satisfied that enough is being done to quell the violence. "I think the homicide rate is outrageous. This is my biggest burden.'' So in lieu of a sufficient number of patroling police officers who are trained and equipped for this stuff, I'll ease my "burden" by putting firefighters out there to "distract" these potential perpetrators for committing their bad acts.

He said the city needs to look beyond traditional policing and consider creative tactics, such as putting fire trucks on the streets. There already are plans in the works to park city ambulances in outlying neighborhoods later this year so they can respond to calls faster.
So this is just a recycled stupid idea. Now I can rest easy.

Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White said the mayor's idea for the firefighters might have merit, but she stopped short of endorsing it. "I agree there may be some deterrent to having apparatus deployed out there,'' Hayes-White said.I'll keep my mouth shut on this statement because I just can't really express my thoughts without a bunch of asterisks strung together, so I'll just say my initial impression of this "chief" isn't positve.

"We're firefighters. We're not armed. My guys don't have bulletproof vests,'' Hanley said. Careful, John. They'll take that as an endorsement as long as you have vests.

Police Capt. Rick Bruce of the Bayview Station said that while the district does have high-crime spots such as Third and Newcomb streets, he wasn't sure the plan was workable.

"Unless we are going to place people there for 24 hours, you have no guarantee they are going to be present when the crime occurs,'' Bruce said. At least someone seems capable of some degree of critical thought.

Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said putting a city vehicle on the streets, even a non-police car such as an ambulance, has a deterrent effect. Ok, so let's put the Mayor and some of the other government officials out there as a "listening" post in a marked vehicle. Perhaps that might help to "ease his burden."

"It does give people pause -- maybe somebody who is wondering about a particular area might think, 'This area gets a little crazy, so we'll go someplace a little quieter,' '' Suhr said.
So, it's ok to hang the firefighters out there as scarecrows, knowing that it's only likely to cause these people to go someplace else to kill someone, or just kill the firefighters to eliminate potential witnesses.[/quote][/b]
But Police Chief Heather Fong is concerned that stationing fire trucks at potential crime scenes could mean crews would be tied up as crime witnesses rather than being available to respond to an emergency, Suhr said.
Good conclusion, even if the reasoning goes way beyond that. It's a start though.

"She intends to have further dialogue with Hayes-White about the feasibility of the proposal,'' Suhr said. I should hope to hell so! Maybe she'll help the fire chief get some backbone and stand up for her people. The first question for the fire chief should be something along the line of, "What the hell are you thinking?!"

Firefighters at Station 17 at Shafter Avenue and Ingalls Street, a few blocks from several southeastern housing projects, were cool to the idea. I'm shocked! Forevermore, why?

One firefighter, who didn't want his name used for fear of retribution, said his job is to put out fires, not fight crime. Fire engine companies won't respond to shootings or stabbings until police tell them the scene is secure, the firefighter said.

"Nobody signed up for this job to sit on the corner and play security guard," he said. Good suggestion! Take everybody out of the trucks, and make the crews stand up and down the streets so they can hear screams and gunshots. It only stands to reason that you can't hear anything or see very far away from the safety of your truck. (I'm being facitious here in case anyone's wondering)

This whole thing is nonsense that they would even consider this proposal. I'm beginning to think that this might be another good example of the problems with Chief officers that are political appointees, regardless of your qualifications. I certainly hope it is shown that this fire chief applied for her position by using a resume, and not a pedigree. Right now, I've got my own ideas of which was used.

[CaptOldTimer]

This was probably a combination idea from the mayor and the fire chief. I know "she said" that it has "merit" but hasn't yet endorse it. Both thinks that the firefighters don't do anything any way, so lets put them on the street to sit at a corner and the ones who was thinking about committing a shooting, drug buy or something else, will think twice when seeing the big red fire truck, will make them go away! Vests are on the way for firefighters!

Well, I have some land up in the mountains, that if I sugar coated it well, I could convince the mayor and the chief that it is prime beach front property and a steal if they would like to buy it!!

A better idea!!! Why don't the mayor and chief go out and sit around the corners and maybe the crime will just go away!!


:( :rolleyes: :eek:

[ullrichk]

If you want to park something on the street corner to act as a deterrent, this would be a better choice:

[tanker5117]

but the words I did have dont translate well here....


Rick, I think those words will translate just fine, but the use of them will jeopardize your continued participation on these boards.:D


Tanker

[permaprobie]

Mayor, pull over now and let the ludes wear off...

[jdl123]

I know its been said already, but that mayor is a f**king idiot; in more ways than one. Hope he gets publicly ridiculed for such a stupid f**king idea. What a complete and hopeless moron.

[SamsonFCDES]

I dont think that it would be cost effective to place high dollar fire assests on street corners to deter crime.

I think they should go with the Tetra-Vaal Robotic Policing System.

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/670/

Robotic crime deterents. They have deployed robots in Iraq already, The Special Weapons Observation Reconnaissance Detection System, or SWORDS. This Tetra-Vaal system is even more advanced. The initial purchase cost would be high, but the long run costs are very afordable when you consider there are no wadges, benefits, etc... to deal with.

A picture of the SWORDS Robot currently serving in Iraq.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Monkeyhammer/SoldierTech_Talon-1.jpg

The Tetra-Vaal Robot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Monkeyhammer/tetra_vaal.jpg

Put those guys on the street and watch crime vaporize in a hail of high velocity lead.

Beats taking your fire hose to a gunfight IMO.

[CALFFBOU]

This would be lame mainly because fire stations are usually
placed strategicly thought out a city or district.

So now, move them around do disrupt response times, etc?

THEN- You will have re-write every Fireifghter's job
desciptionand give them more pay for hazardous duties?
Thats gonna save money too?

Give me a break Gavin, you moron.

[CALFFBOU]

Its time to bring back the man, the REAL crime fighter
and American Hero...

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/4305/4305781.jpg

"Dead or alive, youre coming with me."

[CLEARVIEW82]

As if enough Brothers don't die from preventable situations! What a frickin fool. To much medicinal wacky tobacky mayor? Maybe The Gouvenator needs to slap him around.

[tjsnys]

WOW, NY isn't the only City with the Village (City) idiot playing Mayor. It appears these two are in a race to see who's the bigger one. I think the SF Mayor is in the lead.

Maybe they should create a new reality series about and featuring stupid politicians with stupid ideas. The show could run forever, they’d have an endless supply of material.

How do we elect these tools into public office?

Stay Safe ---- especially you guys in SF

[SteveDude]

Is there an International school of Political Sh!t that these people go to?...It sounds just like the type of crazy idea that some politician over here would dream up...

Anyone got an uninhabited Island they can sell to me... I'm gonna go live there on my own!!!

[MalahatTwo7]

Originally posted by SteveDude
Anyone got an uninhabited Island they can sell to me... I'm gonna go live there on my own!!!

Yep we sure do! The whole westcoast of Canada is chocker block with em! :D

[SamsonFCDES]

Another Picture of the cop robot, SWORD.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/Monkeyhammer/talon.gif

Put those on every steet corner and just blow the criminals to hell.

:p

[superchef]

I sent a letter to the editor of the Chronicle addressed to the Mayor. The newspaper just called me and they are publishing it tomorrow.

As for the SWORD, I know where we can aim it Sampson. That is very cool toy.

If I see any more updates, I'll post them. Someone asked me about police and firefighters contracts. That I do not know.

Cheffie

[SteveDude]

Yep we sure do! The whole westcoast of Canada is chocker block with em!

I see, just like the West Coast of Scotland then...what I should have said was

"Anyone got a warm, sunny uninhabited Island they can sell to me...":D

[MalahatTwo7]

The west coast here is sunny (well mostly) certainly not the rugged weather off Scotland for sure. And there are even a few available along the south coast here. Check with MartinM, he was here just over a year ago. :D

But I am still in agreement with the content of this thread, Newsome is a GEEK! I especially like the idea of the "Elected Government Officals" parking marked cars at the corners and doing "their bit" for city security. I think that would be a great idea.

Also it would seem that there is more than one village with a "Missing Persons" poster up right now.

[wvfd05]

Does this Moron for Mayor want Tocoma, Washington incidents with loaded handguns? This mayor needs his head examined.

TF

[lieutleroy140]

Terlet.........

[bfd190]

i bet if this pol just stood on the corners and practiced pulling his head out of his ass that would probably deter some crime .. hell , half of us would pay to watch and that would put a dent in his fiscal matters as well.

[FFFRED]

This is by far the most absurd idea ever presented on FH.com...this even surpasses the idea of pumps and tanks on Ladder Companies :p :D

Anyhow as far as someone less likely to shoot or commit crime around a fire company...this is absurd.

Just ask...

...FDNY Engine Co. 42 who after an altercation with a gypsy cab regarding double parking...this a-hole returns to their quarters as they are backing in and unloads on them with an automatic weapon. Hense their nickname.. "The OK-Corral."

The history of the FDNY is filled with people who didn't care for "the man" being in their hood and they didn't care wether you were a cop or a fireman. The reason we got enclosed cabs before most of the country wasn't a safety issue like you would think...it was because the populace would throw countless objects at the firemen. Rocks, bottles, Moltov Cocktails. The later was the reason they developed the canvas conastoga top over the hose bed of the CF MACKs.

And that was only getting to the fire. Countless Vacants were booby trapped and there were documented instances of cops having to escort the companies into the block and provide "cover" keeping snipers and rock throwers off the surounding roofs edges.

In fact they know firemen don't carry guns and don't arrest them. For that I'm grateful. If they thought we couldn't be trusted as much as we are today because we were there for "crime prevention" I can assure you we would be in BIG trouble. Today the most you usually hear of is "air mail" from certain housing projects.

...or the Brothers in Kansas City who were shot at during a fire. I think a few of their rigs were damaged beyond repair.

...or the Brothers in DCFD who I know have had their houses shot up. In fact I know many brothers in Ghetto Houses who have had their firehouse, Engine, personal cars shot at and up. They don't care.

I'll tell you what these persons will do once they figure out what the FD is doing...if it really concerned them. They or someone else would pull a box or call in a fire at a distant location and do what they want on the corner where the fire Engine was prior to it responding. These people despite of the lack of a formal education in most cases are actually quite bright at working the system. In fact this is the same ploy they used to loot everything not nailed down in firehouses years ago. I'm sure they all remember how it works. It still happens now and then even today.

If people have a general disregard and lack of respect for the law perhaps these liberal nuts should allow the S.F.P.D. to bring out the hats and bats and give them what many cop friends of mine refer to as a "Wooden Shampoo". That will definately keep these mopes in order.

History has shown the Fire Department isn't equiped trained or even practical for Law Enforcement.

Little miss Chiefie needs to get a shot of reality...Perhaps a few nice nights in the Ghetto to change her mind. She is nothing short of a joke of a Chief for even entertaining this proposal.

FTM-PTB

[Weruj1]

OMG ..............SFFD we are here for you .........NO WAY!
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=39969

Gun Put To Firefighter's Head during Rescue Attempt in Tacoma, Washington



Updated: 03-08-2005 10:16:40 AM
E-MAIL THIS STORY PRINT THIS STORY


ASSOCIATED PRESS
Seattle Post-Intelligencer via the Associated Press


TACOMA, Wash. (AP) -- A woman being carried out of a burning house put a gun to a firefighter's head and pulled the trigger repeatedly but was out of bullets following the shooting death of her boyfriend, police say.

The woman, in her late 50s, was hospitalized for treatment of smoke inhalation Monday. Once she is released she will be jailed for investigation of first-degree murder and two counts of assault, officer Mark Fulghum said.

Police and fire investigators said she apparently tried to set fire to the house in a suicide attempt after the shooting of her longtime boyfriend, 65.

There was no known history of domestic violence between two or any obvious motive, at least ''nothing she's mentioned,'' Fulghum said. ''It kind of doesn't make a whole lot of sense.''

Lighter fluid, white gasoline and charcoal starter were poured throughout the 1½-story house and ignited before fire crews were dispatched shortly before 5 a.m., but the fire never spread much beyond the kitchen, Deputy Fire Chief Ronald W. Stephens said.

Matt Carlisle, 28, said that as he and two other firefighters entered the smoke-filled house, they heard ''three distinct popping sounds'' which he thought were from exploding light bulbs. Investigators now believe the sounds were gunshots, Fulghum said.

Carlisle said he could see barely three feet as he and another firefighter began trying to carry the woman and her dead boyfriend, whom they did not know had been shot, out of a basement bedroom.

Suddenly, he said, ''There was a commotion going on next to me, a struggle between all my crew members and the (woman) ... hands and arms flailing about.''

Then Carlisle learned that another firefighter, Damon Semingson, wrestled a handgun from the woman after she put it to his head and pulled the trigger repeatedly. He saw the gun, which was out of bullets, in the beam of another firefighter's flashlight.

''Obviously, it kind of makes me take a step back and realize how lucky I am - and how lucky I am to have a crew member like Damon, who realized the threat and acted on it without really any regard for his own safety,'' he said. ''I kind of dodged the proverbial bullet.''

[OFD226]

I believe that the mayor now made the statement this evening that it was a "bad idea" and "it was just an idea, and I was just throwing it out there and the media ran with it".

tee hee hee

guess he can back pedal pretty fast too!!

[FFFRED]

Newsom Takes Fire Truck Idea Off The Table

POSTED: 5:03 pm PST March 8, 2005
UPDATED: 5:20 pm PST March 8, 2005

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom says people are over-reacting to his comment Monday about placing fire trucks on neighborhood streets as a crime deterrent.

Newsom says he was only passing along a staff member's idea to see what the fire and police departments thought of it.

Both the fire and police chiefs say while they applaud the mayor's effort, neither thought the plan would help lower the crime rate

Newsom says judging from the reaction, this particular idea is off the table.

But he says he'll continue to encourage department heads to work together on innovative solutions to the city's problems.

[Steamer]

Originally posted by FFFRED
Newsom Takes Fire Truck Idea Off The Table

POSTED: 5:03 pm PST March 8, 2005
UPDATED: 5:20 pm PST March 8, 2005

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom says people are over-reacting to his comment Monday about placing fire trucks on neighborhood streets as a crime deterrent.

Newsom says he was only passing along a staff member's idea to see what the fire and police departments thought of it.

Both the fire and police chiefs say while they applaud the mayor's effort, neither thought the plan would help lower the crime rate

Newsom says judging from the reaction, this particular idea is off the table.

But he says he'll continue to encourage department heads to work together on innovative solutions to the city's problems. **snif*snif** Umm, Mr. Mayor? Can you explain the strong odor of bull **** we're all smelling?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Only a true idiot would blame a high homicide rate in an urban center on the cops sitting on their arse's.

For those intelligent members of the forum, answer this question in reference to this scenario.

A man is threatening to jump off the roof of a building. He is serious about jumping. Someone calls the FD and they arrive, evaluate the situation and deploy a lifenet directly below where the man is standing on the roof. Remember, this man is dead set on jumping off this roof. What does he do?

[RESERVE172]

:D GEE,I don't know? Does he jump, miss the net and land on the firefighters below?

[snowball]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
Only a true idiot would blame a high homicide rate in an urban center on the cops sitting on their arse's.

For those intelligent members of the forum, answer this question in reference to this scenario.

A man is threatening to jump off the roof of a building. He is serious about jumping. Someone calls the FD and they arrive, evaluate the situation and deploy a lifenet directly below where the man is standing on the roof. Remember, this man is dead set on jumping off this roof. What does he do?

Walks over to the other side of the building and jumps?

I say let them do it, just don't take anyone else with you.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by snowball


Walks over to the other side of the building and jumps?


EXACTLY!

Sooooo.....
If an engine company is parked at the corner of Fifth and Main, where does the gang banger go to shoot the other gang banger wearing the wrong colors?

[OSD122]

Mayor Anthony, Any-Two-Some, Newsome is an idiot. Why doesn't he get in his city issued car and have his chauffeur drive to various bad spots of that city and park on a street corner for a few hours a day?

[RESERVE172]

George, I think your scenerio really just proves one thing. The bad guys will find a way to continue to be bad guys whether there is a fire truck sitting on the corner or not. Why expose unarmed,untrained firefighters to this type of public safety? Hire more cops!

[CaptBob]

Lee Rodgers of KSFO Radio in SF said that this is another example of why SF is considered the largest outdoor insane assylum in the world.

[RESERVE172]

Originally posted by CaptBob
Lee Rodgers of KSFO Radio in SF said that this is another example of why SF is considered the largest outdoor insane assylum in the world. :) :) I couldn't agree more. The chief should be sent to a real assylum for a 30 day evaluation for not immediately condemning this absurd and desperate idea.

[mcfdasstchief]

What is this idiot thinkin'. I'm a deputy sheriff and a firefighter. Well, let's do a scenario here. A guy's on meth, wanderin' around a neighborhood with a gun. He see's a big, red, shiny firetruck sittin' on the corner. 1.It's shiny and red (dopehead magnet) 2.This guy's out of his mind. if he's wantin' to shoot somebody, he's not gonna stop and say "I'm not shootin them, their firefighters!" He's just gonna open up. I've seen situations where people try to challenge firefighters, just because they are who they are. Does he not know that even police officers get shot, and attacked and we even have guns! What's he thinkin'. I just had to say it again.

[RESERVE172]

Hey, I have a great idea! HIRE MORE COPS !:rolleyes:

[SamsonFCDES]

I wouldnt recomend this sort of thing...

---------------------------------------

Firefighter garners national nomination for Harlem heroism
By KAREN OGDEN Tribune Regional Editor

A volunteer firefighter who collared and handcuffed the dangerous suspect in
the fatal shooting of a Blaine County sheriff's deputy last May is nominated
in the national Volvo For Life Awards.
Twenty-seven-year-old Scott Baker, who has since moved to Great Falls where
he works at Home Depot, was nominated in the "off-duty heroism" category.
Prizes start with a certificate of merit for the top 100. The top three
receive $50,000 to donate to charity and the grand award winner will drive a
Volvo -- a new one every three years -- for the rest of their life.
Winners will be announced April 7. Baker's father, former Harlem police
chief Bill Baker, nominated him for the award. The younger Baker calls the
contest a "long shot." He's among 2,700 Americans competing for the honor.
Whether he wins or not, those who saw his heroism at the nightmarish scene
in a weedy field in Harlem last May will remain grateful. "I want to thank
him for what he did," Blaine County Sheriff Glenn Huestis said this week.
"Had he not shown up, what would have happened we don't know." The toll
already was heavy when Baker arrived. Minutes earlier, 28-year-old Deputy
Josh Rutherford was fatally shot as he chased Larry Jackson Jr. across a
field along Highway 2. Jackson, 25 at the time, bit off another man's nose,
ear and pinky finger in an earlier incident, according to court documents.
Rutherford pursued Jackson as he fled after allegedly trashing his
girlfriend's home. Several blocks away, Baker and his wife, Yasmine, were
returning home from the eighth-grade graduation ceremony of Baker's nephew.
Baker had just kicked off his shoes when he heard heavy breathing over the
family's police scanner and a frantic call for help: "Officer down!" Having
worked as a sheriff's dispatcher and detention officer for two years, he
recognized the voice as that of Deputy Loren Janis. He knew the nearest
backup was likely 20 miles away in Chinook, the county seat. Ignoring his
wife's pleas to stay, Baker grabbed the 30-30 rifle his parents gave him for
high school graduation, climbed in his car and raced down Main Street to the
scene, less than a minute away. He found an exhausted Janis leaning against
his patrol car, bleeding heavily from a gunshot wound to his upper left arm.
Janis still pointed his gun at Jackson, who stood in the field just outside
the reach of his spotlight. Baker quickly tried to piece together what had
happened from the growing crowd of bystanders. "I hollered at Loren and let
him know that I was behind him," Baker said.
Both men shouted at Jackson, who soon dropped his gun, but refused to lie
down. Drooling, wild-eyed and bloodstained, Jackson walked toward the patrol
car, stripping off his clothes as he went. "All he had when he got to the
car was boxer shorts on," Baker said. As Jackson neared, Baker grabbed a set
of Janis' handcuffs and gave his gun to a trusted bystander. "The guy was so
close I didn't want to go up to him with my gun," said Baker, a man with a
gentle face, but an imposing frame at 6-foot-1 and 290 pounds. "I just
slowly went out after him," he said. "He wouldn't get down, but he wasn't
thinking right." As Janis leveled his gun at Jackson, Baker slipped on the
cuffs and put Jackson in a patrol car. Baker remembers the pit in his
stomach when, at about that time, another man helping on the scene called
out that Rutherford was dead.
Using his dispatch skills, Baker radioed for more backup and ambulances. "It
basically calmed the whole situation down," Huestis said. "It helped the
deputy that was wounded get the suspect into custody before his wound took
over and he was unable to function anymore. His presence gave that deputy
the ability to finish what he needed to do before he passed out." Janis, the
wounded deputy, was off of work for two weeks and has been back on duty ever
since, fully recovered.
Baker, who owned Yasmo's variety store in Harlem at the time of the
incident, has since moved to Great Falls with his wife and 2-year-old
daughter, Aspen. He drives a black Pontiac Firebird and said he hasn't
thought much about winning a Volvo. But Baker said he would like the charity
money to add to a scholarship fund for his cousin, 19-year-old Dawn Marie
Zellmer, who died in a car crash on Highway 2 in September 2002. Baker was
the first responder on that accident scene through the volunteer fire
department and still is haunted by the experience. But he said he didn't
hesitate when he heard Janis' call for help. "I still can't explain exactly
why I went," he said. "I guess it's in my blood.

[jaybird210]

Tee Hee. I love politicians. It was his idea until it blew up. Then...
Newsom says he was only passing along a staff member's idea to see what the fire and police departments thought of it.

Hah! I love it!

[superchef]

I have never seen a story disappear from the news so fast. He should have been shot down before he even made a public statement. The fact that the fire chief was present when he "throw out this idea" is disappointing. She should have thrown this idea out before it even became public.

How does that saying go, somthing about it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[CaptBob]

The fact that the fire chief was present when he "throw out this idea" is disappointing. She should have thrown this idea out before it even became public.

Here, here!

[CaptBob]

SAN FRANCISCO
Mayor backs down on policing by fire crews
Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, March 9, 2005


Printable Version
Email This Article




San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom on Tuesday threw a big bucket of water on the idea he raised the day before to station fire trucks and their crews on the streets of violence-prone neighborhoods as a crime deterrent.

"There's no there, there,'' he eagerly told a throng of reporters and, in the process, sent a message to firefighters to ease their concerns.

The mayor had talked about the prospect Monday during a City Hall meeting attended by the police and fire chiefs, other City Hall officials and a Chronicle reporter.

"I'm throwing it out there,'' he said at the time and spoke a little more about it later in a hallway interview.

But when the story landed in the paper Tuesday, his displeasure was obvious.

Not only was the idea just that -- an idea and nothing more -- it was bl*wn out of proportion, he said. On top of that, the mayor added, it was a department head who came up with the suggestion and he merely passed it along. Newsom declined to name that department head.

Newsom, who has been in the mayor's seat 14 months, rarely strays off his administration's carefully crafted message and keeps tight control on what information gets out -- and when. He suggested to reporters that he'll be even more careful now.

"In about a year, you guys will dumb me down (to) where I'll be one of the most boring politicians in this country and creating no news so no one panics and overacts,'' he said.

Likening himself to a Silicon Valley corporate pioneer, he added that if executives at Google had every one of their ideas publicly aired, "they wouldn't be in business and probably the industry would have collapsed, because sometimes people throw out ideas and they see where they go.''

However, Newsom said the intent of the idea had merit.

"The whole notion of getting the city to collaboratively respond to crime and violence and to explore opportunities and alternatives to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, I think is a good one.''

But based on the response, he added, "I think it may be the worst idea I've heard in months.''

The now-defunct proposal would have pulled firefighters and their rigs out of their stations and parked them outside when they're not responding to fires and medical emergencies. The thinking was that people would be less likely to commit a crime in front of firefighters.

The theory was put to the test unintentionally Tuesday morning when a 48- year-old woman, who police believe was an innocent bystander, was shot in the shoulder at Third Street and Kirkwood Avenue in Hunters Point -- in front of firefighters who happened to be in the area. They not only witnessed the incident, said firefighters union President John Hanley, but they also went to the woman's aid and called police.

"A bullet could have hit one of the firefighters,'' Hanley said.

Officers captured one of the suspects in the shooting after a foot chase, said Officer Maria Oropeza, a Police Department spokeswoman.

Both Hanley and Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White were obviously relieved that the idea of using firefighters to fight street crime was quickly doused, but careful to not knock Newsom.

"I applaud (the mayor) for his creativity and not being afraid to throw out a concept here and there,'' Hayes-White said. "You're not going to have anything changed unless you really challenge yourself and your department heads, so I have no problem with it. My personal feeling is that I would defer to the Police Department for crime prevention, they're trained much more so than the Fire Department. We have our roles and responsibilities.''

Added Hanley, a Newsom political ally: "It shows here how brilliant this mayor is, when an idea is brought up, and when it shows it doesn't really help the city, then it's let's go on to other ideas.''

[Steamer]

Originally posted by superchef
The fact that the fire chief was present when he "throw out this idea" is disappointing. She should have thrown this idea out before it even became public. Cheffie, I couldn't agree more. She is supposed to be the resident expert in matters concerning the FD. It seems far too apparent that she sees her duty as pleasing the Mayor rather than doing what is best for the community, the department, and the people that lay their lives on the line every day.

Open endorsement or passsive resistance, she failed miserably in that duty by not actively and openly opposing this nonsense from the beginning.
Originally posted by CaptBob
SAN FRANCISCO
Mayor backs down on policing by fire crews
Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, March 9, 2005

"I applaud (the mayor) for his creativity and not being afraid to throw out a concept here and there,'' Hayes-White said. "You're not going to have anything changed unless you really challenge yourself and your department heads, so I have no problem with it. My personal feeling is that I would defer to the Police Department for crime prevention, they're trained much more so than the Fire Department. We have our roles and responsibilities.''

Added Hanley, a Newsom political ally: "It shows here how brilliant this mayor is, when an idea is brought up, and when it shows it doesn't really help the city, then it's let's go on to other ideas.'' All I can say to the above snippet from the article CaptBob posted is :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. It kinda makes one wonder if they powder the mayor's arse after such a prolific "kissing".

[Maverick9110E]

my suggestions to put on the street corner over firefighters:

Suggestion 1


http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/ah1003.jpg


Suggestion 2


http://www.freqofnature.com/photos/svepe_2003/bigimages/image007.jpg


Suggestion 3 ( a novel one i might add)



http://www.tomcosgrave.com/photography/san_francisco/images/gallery/financial_district/miscellaneous_sfpd_car.jpg

[RESERVE172]

Well I can see, or maybe I should say NOT see part of the problem in San Fran. Their police cars don't have anyone in them.:D

[RESERVE172]

:eek: BTW, is he parked in a crosswalk? :eek:

[superchef]

edited by user

[MalahatTwo7]

The theory was put to the test unintentionally Tuesday morning when a 48- year-old woman, who police believe was an innocent bystander, was shot in the shoulder at Third Street and Kirkwood Avenue in Hunters Point -- in front of firefighters who happened to be in the area. They not only witnessed the incident, said firefighters union President John Hanley, but they also went to the woman's aid and called police.

Glad to hear they called 911, and chose not to persue - that would have made a real mess of things eh. I still can not belive that BOTH! the Fire AND the Police Chief's appeared to have endorsed this hairbrained idea at least in principle by NOT speaking out at the time it was proposed. It begs the question: Who whipped whom?

[OneL1L]

Originally posted by Steamer
Cheffie, I couldn't agree more. She is supposed to be the resident expert in matters concerning the FD. It seems far too apparent that she sees her duty as pleasing the Mayor rather than doing what is best for the community, the department, and the people that lay their lives on the line every day.

Open endorsement or passsive resistance, she failed miserably in that duty by not actively and openly opposing this nonsense from the beginning.

What kind of fantasy world do you live in? What do you think would have happened if she would've been quoted in the press saying something like "this is a completely stupid idea and the mayor is an idiot for proposing it"? The mayor would've fired her. And then hired somebody else to do what he wanted.

It's a very nice theory to assume that a department head is going to call BS publicly in a confrontational way on the mayor of a major city. And the next time it happens, please feel free to let us know. Because I suspect it will be the very first time it's been done. I know I have yet to see it happen in my lifetime.

[greenSFflame]

geez! newsoms an idiot...i remember when SF was tryin to close down certain stations that dont get calls...i think this was back in april...i went to one of the hearings at city hall and told em that that s#it was stupid...guess they just dont get it...geez!!

[superchef]

edited by user

[CALFFBOU]

Originally posted by greenSFflame
geez! newsoms an idiot...i remember when SF was tryin to close down certain stations that dont get calls...i think this was back in april...i went to one of the hearings at city hall and told em that that s#it was stupid...guess they just dont get it...geez!!

Yup...Good thing we have the union called IAFF!