Game On???

[Dave1983]

Whats the feeling out there? Are the NHL and NHLPA going to get this thing fixed or are we in for a long, cold, empty winter?

Come on guys, get it done...PLEASE:(

Dave

[Weruj1]

I think we are done dude............

[ROOKIELZ]

I think hockey is done for this year.

For entertainment, please amuse yourself and others on the threads:
1. It was a dark and stormy night
2. After hours Pub

We've gotta keep active, ya know:D

[gracie449]

Hubby and I broke down and signed up for the Center Ice package through Adelphia last year and we saw 30 games a week. We are suffering severe withdrawal!

Mr. Husband has played in men's leagues around town and has been on the ice about 30 years, starting in Jr. High. I came late to the party and didn't become a fan until after we were married, some 15 years ago. Now I'm a diehard fan and love the Red Wings, the Devils and the Flames. I even got a Brendan Shanahan CCM jersey for my birthday last year. I also loved playing Fantasy Hockey on Yahoo! the last few years. It was a lot of fun and I really miss it. :(

This lockout, according to Mr. Husband, is probably not going to end in time for there to be a season this Spring and may not even be resolved by next Fall (gulp!). Sure hope that's wrong, but it looks like he may be right.

Oh, well; it gives me more time to work on the FF book.... :cool:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Let me preface this by saying that I am a diehard Rangers fan-Potvin Sucks. I bleed red, white and blue.

I posted in another thread that this strikce may be the death of the NHL as we know it. The teams are insured-this year. They are a business. When a business has no income, it cannot operate.

The players are getting a strike stipend from the NHLPA-this year. They are professionals and need to work to bread on the table. Many of them have found work elsewhere. Some will never come back.

Bettman has taken a hard line. The NHLPA has taken a hard line. There is no room for compromise at this time because the sides are diametrically opposed. Methinks that Bettman's goal is to break the union.

What I see happening is for the teams to termiinate all contracts and cut the players loose. They will then try to rebuild the league using junior, international and IHL players. It will take awhile. I guess the stars could come craeling back.

But I think the NHL as we have known it is gone forever.

[gracie449]

You and Mr. Husband agree on this one, George.

[metallichick]

I think that plenty of people think that this season is done for...and it's a bummer I agree; but here's another question. Do you really agree with why the players went on strike in the first place?

[RspctFrmCalgary]

They didn't go on strike, the owner's locked them out.

[manofire2]

First, the players didn't go on strike, they were locked out.

That being said, I think most people, particularly those in Canada are supporting the owners. The belief is that ticket prices are solely controlled by salaries.

At issue is the salary cap and most people believe that a salary cap would make for a more level playing field. The NFL experience would in fact support that belief. Most fans are tired of the Detroit Red Wings approach, sell enough pizzas and buy all the stars. This however is just one problem plagueing the NHL.

Many people watching the game today believe that we need to look at many ways to fix the game. The World Junior Tournament has once again drsawn attention to rule changes to improve the game. Getting rid of the centre line is a start.

Will the game survive? I believe it will.

Will the game survive without scars? I doubt it.

The bottom line is that, hockey as we know it will certainly change. If at the end of the day, cheque book recruiting is gone, then it will have been worth it. If there is no cap, the the pizza folks in Detroit win and then as I see it, the game I grew up playing and watching, is doomed.

[Bones42]

Potvin Sucks Oh, how I miss that chant. :cool:

[VinnieB]

Yeah....I'd say were done...:( :mad:

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Originally posted by manofire2
First, the players didn't go on strike, they were locked out.

That being said, I think most people, particularly those in Canada are supporting the owners. The belief is that ticket prices are solely controlled by salaries.

At issue is the salary cap and most people believe that a salary cap would make for a more level playing field. The NFL experience would in fact support that belief. Most fans are tired of the Detroit Red Wings approach, sell enough pizzas and buy all the stars. This however is just one problem plagueing the NHL.

Many people watching the game today believe that we need to look at many ways to fix the game. The World Junior Tournament has once again drsawn attention to rule changes to improve the game. Getting rid of the centre line is a start.

Will the game survive? I believe it will.

Will the game survive without scars? I doubt it.

The bottom line is that, hockey as we know it will certainly change. If at the end of the day, cheque book recruiting is gone, then it will have been worth it. If there is no cap, the the pizza folks in Detroit win and then as I see it, the game I grew up playing and watching, is doomed.

I hope you're wrong :( :mad:

One thing that hasn't been reported in the news and I haven't had time to go looking for it ... has there been an actual dollar figure mentioned for the salary cap?

I don't see much hope for a season this year, not when the two sides don't even talk to each other. This pisses me off even more now that my beloved Flames finally got their S**T together. I'll be choked if there is no hockey next year. *whimper* *sob* *sniffle* *sigh* :( :( :(

[VinnieB]

I just got some good news...they may stike a deal by the Feb 1 deadline....that's enough time for a 30 game season....:)

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Don't tease us like that, Vinnie! :eek:

[ndvfdff33]

Thank god I live in Canada...We got plenty of good hockey....CHL is top notch with all the up and coming stars...All the Junior leagues..Hell even Midget AAA is entertaining...So I say to hell with the NHL

[ROOKIELZ]

We have taken our hockey enthusiasm to a different arena. On Wed, we went to the Prince Albert FF VS Legendary (NHL ret'd) Hockey Heroes.
Proceeds went to the local Pediatric Exam room in the local hospital.
It was a good way to combine two interests.

NHL players were:

Bryan Trottier
Richard Brodeur
Jack Valiquette
Dave "Tiger" Williams
Bob Bourne
Ron Flockhart

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From the New York Times:
No Talks and Little for Board to Discuss
By JOE LAPOINTE

Published: January 7, 2005


The National Hockey League owners have not negotiated with their locked-out players union since Dec. 14. Now it appears that they will not even talk among themselves, at least not formally, for the foreseeable future.

The meeting of the board of governors scheduled for next Friday in New York was canceled with little explanation yesterday. Bill Daly, the league's executive vice president and chief legal officer, announced the decision in a memorandum to all 30 teams and later elaborated on the reasons.

"We spoke with each of the 30 clubs over the last two days and apprised them of the status of the situation and specifically the lack of any new developments," Daly wrote in an e-mail reply to written questions. "And the clubs were unanimous in their view that there was no reason to go forward with a meeting."

The meeting had been scheduled, he said, after two negotiating sessions in December led to some progress in collective bargaining. "It certainly was our hope - if not our expectation - that some additional progress would have been made and perhaps a new offer would have been delivered by the union," Daly wrote. "That hasn't happened."

Ted Saskin, senior director of the N.H.L. Players Association, issued a statement last night that said the league had not made "one bona-fide proposal that could work for both sides," and that it was up to the league to make the next offer.

"Collective-bargaining negotiations should involve reasonable attempts by both parties to find middle ground," Saskin said. "To date, the N.H.L. has not given us any signal that they're prepared to negotiate a compromise."

In the two meetings between the league and the players association in Toronto last month, each side rejected the most recent proposal from the other. On Dec. 9, the players association proposed a 24 percent cut in wages, a luxury tax on high-spending teams and other concessions to end a lockout that began on Sept. 15, before the start of training camps.

The league responded on Dec. 14, saying that the wage reduction was a good start, but that the owners demanded further concessions, including the elimination of salary arbitration and a guarantee that players would receive about 54 percent of team revenue.

Daly said the teams remained "entirely unified on both our objectives in collective bargaining and the strategy being employed" and reaffirmed that the league would not set a "drop-dead date" to cancel the season. The N.H.L. wants to reduce the average player salary to about $1.3 million from $1.83 million. The union said cost certainty is another term for a salary cap, an issue it will not negotiate.

The league has said it lost about $500 million on operations in the past two seasons. The union has expressed doubt about the league figures. No new talks have been scheduled.

[NJFFSA16]

A look at the NHL lockout through Tuesday, Jan. 11:

TOTAL DAYS OF LOCKOUT: 118.

TOTAL DAYS OF SEASON MISSED: 91.

GAMES LOST TUESDAY: 8.

TOTAL GAMES MISSED: 605 regular-season games plus the 2005
All-Star game.

NEGOTIATIONS: The NHL rejected a players' association proposal
and had its own counteroffer turned down during a 3½-hour session
on Dec. 14. No new talks are scheduled.

TUESDAY'S BEST CANCELED GAME: Dallas at Calgary. The Stars were
to travel to Canada to face the Western Conference champions, who
lost all four games last season to Dallas - including one in
overtime.

ICE CHIP: While Calgary was making its surprising run to the
finals, Dallas bowed out of the playoffs in the first round -
losing to Colorado in five games. The Stars and Flames m once in
the postseason and Calgary got the upper hand by winning the
semifinal series in 1981. That was the first season the Flames
played in Canada after moving from Atlanta.

[gracie449]

*sob* *sniffle* WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From espn.com


Saturday, January 15, 2005

ESPN.com news services
According to a report in the Toronto Sun, there probably won't be any hockey this season -- and maybe next.

Sources told Sun Media on Friday that NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow has told NHL players they should not only accept any current job offers in Europe immediately but also take any offers for next season because the lockout could drag on. Goodenow delivered the message via an audio message he posted on the union's private Web site, which only union members can access.

"I don't think we'll be playing," Eric Lindros told the Sun. "There's no communication ... I don't think we'll be playing this season at all.

"The bottom line for both sides is nobody should be worrying about public perception right now or who is right and who is wrong in all of this," he continued. "They should be putting their energy into trying to get a deal done. It's not going to matter who is winning the battle for public opinion if we don't get a deal done."

A source told the Sun that the NHL will make an offer next week, but no one is optimistic.

"I just don't think there's much reason for optimism with nothing happening right now," Lindros told the Sun. "We offered them the 24 percent (salary) rollback and I thought that was a very good offer. They didn't want it. We know that hockey is going to be back. But I can't tell you when and in what form."

Kay Whitmore, a former NHL goalie, said players were galvanized by the league's rejection of the salary cut, but he wondered if the union can withstand a two-year work stoppage.

"The only way someone is going to win is if both sides find a compromise, sit down right now and get a deal done," Whitmore told the Sun. "If that happens, then maybe both sides would truly be happy with what's happened. But the players' chances of winning don't improve the longer this goes. The deadline for the players to get their best deal is right now. I'm sure if this year is lost, it will be a bit of a shock."

Kirk Muller, a 19-year NHL veteran, said the sides won't be able to reach an agreement until they can trust each other.

"I'd be very surprised if there is any hockey this year," he said.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Another...

Thursday, January 6, 2005

By Scott Burnside
Special to ESPN.com
The new World Hockey Association has a decision to make: start playing an abbreviated schedule in February or wait and launch a full season in the fall.

While there are several factors involved in the process, not the least of which is the number of teams, none of them include the National Hockey League.

On Friday, WHA president and chief executive officer Richard William "Ricky" Smith retracted a release from his office that stated the league will launch in the fall. He reiterated that the decision has yet to be made and the status of the NHL lockout will not dictate the WHA's timetable, which he plans to announce within the next two weeks.

"We're not trying to do this as quickly as possible just to have players on the ice for the month of February," Smith said.

In the meantime, Smith said he has fielded calls from NHL players, including Dallas Stars captain Mike Modano. Other NHLers -- like Brett Hull, son of the first WHA star and current commissioner Bobby Hull, Jeremy Roenick, Chris Chelios and netminder Manny Legace -- already have indicated they might be interested in playing in the league.

The WHA also has deployed scouts to evaluate players in North America and Europe, where many NHL players are biding their time during the lockout.

"It's definitely a long shot. You can't expect it to work. But if it does it'll be a great thing for the sport," said Louis Sitaras, one of four primary investors. "It's just an opportunity I see that has unbelievable up-side."

The reincarnation of the WHA was left for dead in September after a poorly executed and hurried attempt to take advantage of the impending NHL lockout. A slightly altered version of the original WHA, a rogue league that operated from 1972-79 and drove up player salaries by using lofty contracts to lure away established NHL players, the 2004 edition was billed as being more entertaining and financially conservative than the NHL.

Smith, the leader of a group of investors that bought the WHA trademarks from co-founder Nick Vaccaro in October, promises the same. But this time, he said, the "new" WHA has $50 million in financial backing, which is enough to launch a 6-8 team league without having an owner in each market. The league anticipates good leases in good buildings will attract strong ownership and, in turn, good players.

"It was primarily a hockey decision, not a financial decision," Smith said from the league offices in Oakville, Ontario, a western suburb of Toronto. "Since then we've cleaned up the league, solved all the debt that was around it."

Smith, 47, a British Columbia native whose financial background is in the timber industry, and Sitaras, 43, a Florida businessman involved in real estate and investments, had planned to own and operate the Minneapolis franchise in last year's failed venture, but were unable to reach a lease agreement with the Target Center. Another overture to arena management was rebuffed earlier this week.

Although there are 13 markets that have a facility that could support a franchise, the plan is to start small and expand, with a European division targeted for the league's second full season. Smith wouldn't identify all 13 markets, but listed Las Vegas, Toronto, Vancouver, Phoenix, Dallas and Quebec City as likely ones.

While the WHA doesn't want to rush the process, filling the void being left by the NHL lockout and playing a half-season now would go a long way in ensuring the WHA's viability next season.

The league will operate with a soft cap that, depending on the number of franchises, will be in the $14 million range. If the WHA does implement a half-schedule this year, the cap would be about $5 million, Smith said.

Each team will be allowed one "marquee" player whose salary would be capped at $5 million (reduced accordingly for a half-season) and one sub-marquee player whose salary would be capped at half of that. The irony of a player rejecting a cap in the NHL and an average salary of at least $1.3 million to play under a cap system in a fledgling, low-budget professional league is not lost on Smith.

"It's not so much how we'll pay but how we'll explain it," Smith said.

For instance, players will be allowed to have a stake in ownership. Smith hopes netminder Ed Belfour, who was involved in the previous WHA's Dallas franchise, will again be involved. Teams will have an open-book policy, with designated player representatives who will have access to the books whenever they want, Smith said.

"Profit-sharing with the players is our intent," he added. "That shouldn't be confused with, 'let's have profit-sharing because we don't plan to pay you well.' "

On the ice, the WHA plans to implement many of the rule changes adopted this year by the American Hockey League, which include restricting goaltenders' ability to play the puck, no-touch icing, tag-up off-sides and a shootout to determine tie games.

Also, roster sizes will likely be reduced to 17 or 18 players.

Smith said there has been discussion with a major television network and regional broadcasters, though he declined to specify which ones.

While top agents say they are not familiar with Smith or the WHA's plans, one major agent said the NHL would do well to be wary of the new league.

High-profile players like Hull, Chelios, Roenick, Belfour and others who are nearing the end of their careers might be inclined to join a rival league if the NHL lockout appears to be headed for a second season. Plus, highly-paid players in their prime who have enough financial security might take a chance on becoming a marquee player in a well-run North American league or to wait out the negotiating process.

Scott Burnside is a freelance writer based in Atlanta and is a frequent contributor to ESPN.com.

[Bones42]

Interesting that they hope players (and some have indicated already) will be willing to play for a league....that has a salary cap. What was the lockout about again? :rolleyes:

[NJFFSA16]

By IRA PODELL
AP Sports Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - For the first time in more than a month, a group
of officials from the NHL and the players' association will meet
Wednesday in what could be a last-ditch effort to save the hockey
season.
"We think it is appropriate and hopefully useful to engage in
these discussions at this time," Ted Saskin, the union's senior
director, said Monday. "We are not meeting to present a new
proposal and remain committed to reaching a fair deal that does not
include a salary cap."
Monday marked the 124th day of the lockout. So far, the NHL has
resisted announcing a drop-dead date in which a collective
bargaining agreement must be made to save this season. But with 650
regular-season games plus this year's All-Star game, already
canceled, it appears that time is short to make a deal.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and players' association Bob
Goodenow, who have butted heads throughout the process, are
expected to sit out this session. The idea to meet in a smaller
group was hatched by players' association president Trevor Linden.
Linden, Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge will
represent the players. Calgary Flames part owner Harley Hotchkiss,
the chairman of the NHL's board of governors; Bill Daly, the NHL's
chief legal officer; and outside counsel Bob Batterman, will be
present for the owners.
The NHL is not expected to make a new proposal at the meeting,
either.
The sides have not met since Dec. 14 when the NHL rejected the
union's proposal - made five days earlier. A counteroffer made by
the league also was rejected by the players during that session in
Toronto.
The players' association got talks restarted in December, after
three months of silence, with a proposal centered on an immediate
24-percent salary rollback on all existing contracts. Owners
rejected that plan and countered with a salary-cap structured
offer.
The NHLPA is adamant that it will never accept a salary cap. The
union's offer featured a luxury-tax and revenue-sharing system.
Bettman has said that he has no interest in a luxury tax.
During the 103-day lockout that disrupted the 1994-95 season, an
agreement was reached on Jan. 11, 1995, allowing for a 48-game
season that began nine days later.
If the season is wiped out, it would mark the first time in 86
years that the Stanley Cup wasn't awarded. A flu epidemic canceled
the 1919 final series between Montreal and Seattle. No North
American sports league has lost an entire season due to a labor
dispute.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[Bones42]

No North American sports league has lost an entire season due to a labor dispute. and no one would have thought Boston would come back from 3-0 against the Yankees. This WILL be the first entire season lost. Hopefully, there will be a season next year...

[Dave1983]

Just heard this morning that the union has asked for a meeting. Interesting that neither union boss Goodenow(?) and comish Bettman have NOT been invited. Stay tuned...

Dave

[Dave404]

It will e a nothing meeting - players ( or should I say their agents) wont accept a salary cap. The world hockey league has a salary cap and says this is how much we will pay you...hmmm I find it very interesting that the players are inquiring about playing in the World League. Maybe the NHLPA should take a look at how much money the players are making in Europe and what they would make in the World league and adjust salaries accordingly.

Simple fact - the players want to play, Politics behind the players is driving up salaries, owners dont want to pay these salaries. How bout we eliminate the politics behind the players and say this is what we are paying and if you dont like it go play in a beer league.

Because I am in withdrawl I was watching classic NHL games - true grit hockey when the players made "resonable" salaries. My neighbor was Reggie Lemelin (Calgary flames 82-87, Boston 87-90)and he had a normal house with a normal car. Players today have ritzy cars and mansions (or larger houses in well to do neighborhoods). The funny thing I notced about the game was I could actually see the arena boards. Todays game has become so commercialized that the boards are covered in advertisments. The game stops so that promotions can take place (dont get me wrong, advertising is a good source of income). The last NHL game I went to I felt I was in a commercial and a hockey game broke out! All in an effort to make a profit or should I say to pay the salaries.

Close the league down and start fresh - the players that love the game will come back!

Rant done - political B.S. gets me going!
Dave

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Wasn't it Winipeg in the old WHA that had all glass boards-right down to the ice surface?

[manofire2]

Esposito doesn't agree with players


Canadian Press



1/18/2005

TAMPA, Fla. (CP) - Hall of Famer Phil Esposito doesn't understand why NHL players are adamant about not accepting a salary cap.



"Well, for the first time in my lifetime, I don't agree with the players," Esposito said Tuesday. "I think they're wrong this time. It's the first time, ever, that I ever thought the players were wrong. And this time I just do not understand what the big deal is with a salary cap. I just don't understand it.



"(It's) not going to affect anybody, but it might take away the 10-11 million dollar player which, there is no room for it anyway in the National Hockey League, because the revenues just don't justify it."



Esposito, eighth all-time in NHL history with 1,590 regular-season points (717-873), isn't sure the season can be saved.





"If they come to an agreement tomorrow, they wouldn't be able to play until probably Feb. 1. So it'd be February, March, April, three months. . .



"So I don't know. It's touch and go. . ."



Esposito has been the radio analyst for the Tampa Bay Lightning for the last four seasons and was the club's general manager for the first seven seasons. He was also GM of the New York Rangers from 1986-87 to 1988-89.

[Dave404]

Originally posted by manofire2
Esposito doesn't agree with players


Canadian Press



1/18/2005

TAMPA, Fla. (CP) - Hall of Famer Phil Esposito doesn't understand why NHL players are adamant about not accepting a salary cap.



"Well, for the first time in my lifetime, I don't agree with the players," Esposito said Tuesday. "I think they're wrong this time. It's the first time, ever, that I ever thought the players were wrong. And this time I just do not understand what the big deal is with a salary cap. I just don't understand it.



"(It's) not going to affect anybody, but it might take away the 10-11 million dollar player which, there is no room for it anyway in the National Hockey League, because the revenues just don't justify it."





The players are just the pawns of the NHLPA. As I said in a bunch of words above - its the people behind the players that are worried about the linning in there pockets!

[ROOKIELZ]

Well, that's it folks, this season is gone for sure:mad:

[StLRes2cue]

From one very sad St Louis Hockey fan.

Hockey is DONE! Not coming back this year.

The only silver lining this story has is that Detroit can't whup up on us and keep us out of the second round of the playoffs again.

Go Blues!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From espn.com:



Associated Press
After two days of negotiations, the NHL and the players' association appeared no closer to a deal that could save the hockey season.

Representatives from the NHL and the players' association met for 4½ hours Thursday in Toronto, the second straight day the sides held discussions in an attempt to end the four-month lockout.

The sides also held a five-hour meeting in Chicago on Wednesday, but they remained divided on the idea of cost certainty, a concept the players' association says is an unacceptable salary cap.

As was the case on Wednesday, there were breaks in the negotiations so each group could huddle separately.

"We've had two good days of communication," Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer said. "But we still have very strong philosophical differences.

"I can't say we're any closer."

Daly said the two-day session was "the best dynamic to date in this process," but the only thing the sides appeared to agree on was that they are still far apart.

"We clearly have some strong differences of opinion that we've had for some time," said Ted Saskin, the players' association senior director. "We continue to look for ways to bridge the gaps. We have not been successful in doing so.

"We have no current future meetings scheduled, but the lines of communications continue to be open."


More than half of the regular season -- 671 of 1,230 games through Thursday -- has been wiped out so far, plus the All-Star Game.

This latest setback again pushes to the forefront the possibility that there will be no hockey played this season.

"We all know time is not an ally," Saskin said.

If the season is wiped out, the Stanley Cup wouldn't be awarded for the first time since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the final series between Seattle and Montreal. The NHL would then become the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute.

There was hope that progress could be made this time without the presence of NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union chief Bob Goodenow, who were kept out of the meeting in an attempt to have discussions without acrimony that has built up between the two leaders.

This two-day meeting marked just the third time the league and players' association held face-to-face talks since the lockout was imposed Sept. 15.

"Obviously, everybody understands that the window of time we have in terms of playing hockey this season is very short, so hopefully we can have some more discussions," Daly said.

Each side had a three-man team in place on Wednesday, and the only change Thursday was the absence of Calgary Flames part-owner Harley Hotchkiss.

"We didn't reach an agreement. We didn't exchange proposals, nor was that the intention," Saskin said. "The intention was to have dialogue which we did achieve here."

Union president Trevor Linden, a center with the Vancouver Canucks, initiated the talks with Hotchkiss on Wednesday, and enough progress was made to quickly schedule a second meeting. But that good feeling appeared to be somewhat lost in Toronto, the same place talks broke off last month.

"I think everybody knows the players have been very interested in finding a basis on how we can move forward," Saskin said. "We recognize that to do so we have to do it through discussions, and that's why Trevor started this initiative."

Daly joined Hotchkiss, and outside counsel Bob Batterman in representing the NHL on Wednesday; Linden, Saskin, and outside counsel John McCambridge represented the players.

"There was more of a give and take about elements of the system and the way it operates and the leverage points," Daly said. "I give Trevor Linden a lot of credit, enormous credit, for getting us together.

"I think the dynamic of the last two days has been the best dynamic we've had to date."

Hotchkiss didn't go to Toronto because he was attending the funeral in Calgary of J.R. (Bud) McCaig, another member of the Flames' ownership group who died last week. Saskin took part in Thursday's meeting, despite the death of his mother a day earlier.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

At least they're talking, which is more than they've done for the past 4 months ..... better than nothin' wouldn't you say?

It doesn't sound promising but I'm NOT giving up hope!

Rest in peace, Bud :(

[Bones42]

At least they're talking Yes, but they don't seem to be talking about solutions.

"We didn't reach an agreement. We didn't exchange proposals, nor was that the intention," Saskin said. "The intention was to have dialogue which we did achieve here." um, what did they talk about? Plastic sticks vs wood sticks? Plastic helmets vs leather helmets? :eek:

[FFTrainer]

Plastic helmets vs leather helmets?

Ummm... Bones... that would be our meeting not theirs :D

I felt pretty good wednesday night that someting was going to happen but after last night I'm back to thinking we're seeing no NHL until further notice.

Hey on the bright side Pitchers and Catchers report February 17 which is less than a month away.

[Dave404]

This is probably how there meeting went : Owners - "How bout a salarie cap". NHLPA - "NO". OWNERS" We could solve a lot with a salary cap". NHLPA - "NO". NHLPA "must be lunch time, were locked out so the owners must be buying!" OWNERS" NO."

A bit synical, but you know I dont make 5 million a year so I probably wouldnt understand what its like having to take a 2 million pay cut! I would not have the slightest idea how would pay for my five houses and 10 sports cars on 2 million a year, oh heavens its a travesty!

I think I will just continue to support Junior hockey - they seem to play competitivly for minimal salaries!

[FFTrainer]

Not good..............

Prepare for a long lockout (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1972119)

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

It's kind of hard for to continue supporting the owners in this. Negotiations mean give and take. The owners are not prepared or willing to give.

I also don't think that you can compare an auto worker to a professional athlete. A person never bought a car because Billy Bob put on the front fenders.

Lastly, I think the NHL owners are grossly overestimating how this will effect the fan base. If the league survives, we may be back to a 6 team league.

[PuffyNPFD]

Strikes and lockouts like these point to what is wrong in sports today. The strike has been good for the AHL, my hometown Providence Bruins have beeen playing to a packed house every night.

[manofire2]

The TSN Solution


At The Sports Network, our team of hockey experts - led by TSN play-by-play man Gord Miller, analyst Pierre McGuire and TSN hockey insider Bob McKenzie, have been talking to NHL owners, general managers, coaches, executives, player agents and players. We have taken many of the interesting concepts and notions put forth in those discussions, crafted them into a comprehensive package that we've dubbed, The TSN Solution.

The highlight of the plan is as follows:


(1) A hard cap of $6 million on individual player salaries with no cap on how much teams may spend on total payrolls

(2) A dollar for dollar, or 100 per cent, luxury tax on all team payrolls in excess of $40 million with the tax monies to be redistributed to those teams with payrolls of less than $40 million but more than $30 million.

(3) A revamped salary arbitration system that allows the teams, as well as the players, to file for arbitration and baseball style "final-offer" arbitration

(4) Liberalized free agency with the age for unrestricted status moving to age 30 or after 10 years service in the NHL, whichever comes first.

(5) Qualifying offers to be 75 per cent of the player's most recent salary level

(6) An entry-level salary and signing bonus cap of $850,000 per year, with no more than 25 per cent of that amount in signing bonus, plus allowable performance bonuses to another $850,000, effectively capping entry-level salaries at no more than $1.7 million a year.


Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Capping salaries at $6,000,000.00 seems pretty generous to me.

I wish the people wanting to start up the new WHA would get their act together. A rival league would certainly light a fire under some butts in a hurry.

[manofire2]

There's a rumour making the rounds that the Owners are making an offer to the players which if accepted will save the season, should know sometime tomorrow.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From ESPN.com

Thursday, January 27, 2005

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- The NHL and the players' association remained far apart after five hours of talks Thursday night and had no plans to meet again.

"We continue to have significant philosophical differences," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said Thursday night. "No meetings are scheduled and we will not make further comment at this time."

With the season on the brink of being canceled, negotiations resumed late Thursday afternoon in New York. For the second straight day, both sides were tight-lipped about what was discussed or accomplished.

"We're going to continue to keep quiet on the status and substance of negotiations," NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly told The Associated Press in an e-mail following the meeting.

There was talk earlier in the day that the sides had left open the possibility of getting together again on Friday, but Daly told the AP that would not happen.

The sides met Wednesday for 5½ hours in Toronto, but there was no word whether progress had been made to end the lockout and save the hockey season. It marked the second straight week meetings were held on consecutive days.

The lockout reached its 134th day Thursday and has forced the cancellation of 721 of the 1,230 regular-season games plus the All-Star Game. If an agreement isn't reached soon, the NHL will likely become the first North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.

For the second time this week, rumors swirled that the NHL was prepared to make another proposal to the players' association. Daly declined comment Thursday afternoon.

If a new offer was pushed across the table, it would be the first since mid-December, when the union invited the league back to negotiations with a proposal that featured a 24 percent rollback of all existing contracts and a luxury-tax system.

The league countered five days later with a salary-cap structure, a concept the NHL is insisting on and one the players' association says it will never accept. The NHL wants a direct link between player salaries and league revenues.

Whatever happened Thursday night, it was expected that the same small groups of negotiators were talking. It would be the fourth straight negotiating session without commissioner Gary Bettman and union chief Bob Goodenow.

It was Vancouver Canucks center Trevor Linden who came up with the idea last week to talk with just six people in the room. Linden, the NHLPA president, invited Harley Hotchkiss --part-owner of the Calgary Flames and chairman of the NHL board of governors -- to talks that started last Wednesday in Chicago and concluded the following day in Toronto. Hotchkiss missed the second meeting because of a funeral in Calgary.

The structure was successful in producing discussion, but it did nothing to close the gap in the philosophical differences.

New Jersey Devils president and general manager Lou Lamoriello joined Daly, Hotchkiss and outside counsel Bob Batterman on the NHL side in Toronto on Wednesday.

"I really don't have any comments," Lamoriello said in a phone interview from New Jersey on Thursday. "When this process is on I think the comments should come only from the people who are spokespeople."

The players' association has kept its team of Linden, Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge the same for all four small-group sessions.

So closely guarded are the smallest details from the league's latest round of talks with the players' association, that exactly what they're still talking about is anyone's guess.

The small-group format was created with the hope that the sides could find common ground that would lead to a new collective bargaining agreement

[Bones42]

Published in the Asbury Park Press 01/28/05

Know what Martin Brodeur misses the most? The guys in the dressing room.

"I'm in Jersey and there's nobody here," Brodeur said. "(I've seen) none of my teammates for three months. (Only) Tommy Albelin is at the rink once in a while."

Know what Mike "Doc" Emrick misses? The popcorn Ulysses Frager and his sister make on game days at the Meadowlands.

"He always has it going during the morning skates," Emrick said. "It permeates the building and I'm a popcorn freak."

Know what Jim Dowd misses? A level of hockey he couldn't find during the 20 games he played for a team in Hamburg, Germany.

"It's the best league in the world and that's the bottom line," Dowd said. "That's what everyone misses."

With the clock running out on the 2004-05 National Hockey League season, there's a lot to miss.

I miss Scott Niedermayer in overtime, zig-zagging up and down the ice, a threat to end any game with one flick of his wrist.

I miss Mario, watching him lull some defenseman into believing he's well beyond his prime, then spinning around that defenseman and setting up a teammate with a perfect pass.

I miss running along the Ottawa River, crossing
from Ontario into Quebec on foot, passing parked cars with Ottawa Senators flags hanging from their windows.

I miss Lauren Hart's rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" and Lyndon Slewidge's "O Canada."

I miss sitting in Row 2, Seat 19 at the Meadowlands, punching out a 15-inch story on deadline, and then looking up just in time to catch Patrik Elias obliterating everything I wrote with a game-tying goal in the waning seconds.

I miss Dave Andreychuk camped out in front of the net, waiting on the rebound.

I miss Rob Skrlac hopping the boards, chasing down the guy who skated full-speed into Brodeur, then giving that guy a pummeling.

I miss seeing "Doc" Emrick at an airport at 6 a.m., both of us waiting for a flight that's delayed, when he sarcastically reminds me that this is the glamorous side of professional hockey.

I miss Brian Gionta going head-first into the crease, playing bigger than his 5-foot-7 frame should allow.

I miss John Madden's honesty, the way he tells you straight up that his team better start scoring goals or there won't be any deep playoff run.

I miss Elias and Scott Gomez playing on a line together — Gomez going blue line to blue line, Elias hitting the impossible corner of the net.

I miss the ovation in Chicago — for the national anthem, not for the game — as inspiring a pre-game sight as any.

I miss Tampa Bay in February, calling my parents to get a weather update even though I know they're shoveling the driveway back in Jersey.

I miss Rangers-Devils at the Garden.

I miss those final few days of the regular season, playoff seeds still up in the air, anxious players, writers and announcers wondering where they're heading for Round 1.

I miss Jarome Iginla, Martin St. Louis . . . anyone who cranks up the speed of the game a few decibels.

I miss combing through preseason statistics, trying to decide if Mathieu Schneider or Adam Foote would be a better fit for my fantasy team.

I miss Pat Burns dueling with Ken Hitchcock, two coaches who can't go a shift without matching lines, two guys who insist on turning hockey into a chess match.

I miss debating with Stan Fischler on the air during an intermission, then continuing our argument after they go to commercial.

I miss Ken Daneyko lingering by the glass during a morning skate, feeling a bit like Moonlight Graham, knowing he can't go back.

I miss picking up the sports section in Toronto or Montreal or Ottawa and finding hockey stories splashed across the front page of the newspaper.

I miss the Mark Messier/Scott Stevens retirement watch, waiting to hear when these two ambassadors of the game will finally step away.

I miss Morton's in Pittsburgh, Hy's in Ottawa and Bern's in Tampa.

I miss those early phone calls from Devils PR guy Jeff Altstadter, with news that the morning skate is an optional.

I miss Brodeur trading saves with Jose Theodore while the crowd at the Bell Centre leans forward, waiting to see which guy will blink first.

Will they settle this lockout over the next few days? I hope so, but I wouldn't put money on it.

It's too bad. There's a bunch of us who really miss the NHL.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I miss the NHL too. But it will be harder to miss it once pitchers and catchers report in about 20 days.

[manofire2]

In case you don't get this info down in the US, here are some of the highlights of the proposal which the NHLPA refused to consider.

- Individual players salary capped at a maximom $6,000,000

- Team payroll capped at $42,000,000 with a minimum of $32,000,000

- Players to share in any profit made by teams

It seems, from what I've heard is that the league proposed a 25% maximum in any contract abitration and that the players have deemed this to be unacceptable.

I'm sure none of the NHLPA interviews will say anything about the minimum payroll or the profit sharing portion.

It would seem to me that if the one thing holding back the season is this 25% arbitration issue, it would be almost criminal to lose the season. But then again, I can't understand why $6,000,000 isn't enough money.

[manofire2]

The truly sad part about this is the thousands of people who have lost their livelihood as a result of the lock-out. The ushers, ticket handlers, consessions etc. All people making slightly over or at near minimum wage. I wonder how they all fell about these guys who feel $6,000,000 isn't enough.

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
I miss the NHL too. But it will be harder to miss it once pitchers and catchers report in about 20 days.

So thats two sports I wont be watching:p

Until they let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame, I pay zero attention to MLB.

rant off;)

Back to the subject, I agree that the owners dont realize the damage thats being done as far as the fans are concerned.

The Tampa Bay area is a perfect example. A lot of the fans they gained from the Lightning winning the cup are going to be turned off by the lockout and not come back.

It took a long time for the team to build a good base in this football crazy area. Heck, just ask the MLB DevilRays how hard it is to go up against the NFL and college football in this part of the country.

It was only the second time in the Lightings history (last year being the other) that they turned a profit. And now they are throwing it all away:mad:

[manofire2]

Originally posted by Dave1983


So thats two sports I wont be watching:p

Until they let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame, I pay zero attention to MLB.

rant off;)



Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson should be reinstated.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

At this point, it is completely irrelevant who is right and who is wrong. This story is from the NY Daily News. It has convinced me that this season is gone, and probably so is the NHL.

NHL players, owners separated by 54%

BY JOHN DELLAPINA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Until now, 54 was an infamous number in hockey circles, primarily because it reflected the mind-boggling number of years the Rangers went between their last two Stanley Cups.
As of Thursday night, that number took on a new meaning with potentially devastating consequences for the NHL. Owners' insistence that total annual player costs not exceed 54% of the league's hockey-related revenue has become their focal point of the philosophical divide with players.

And that divide has pushed this season to the verge of cancellation while imperiling next season and beyond.

NHL executive VP Bill Daly presented NHL Players Association representatives with a fairly comprehensive oral proposal for a new collective bargaining agreement Thursday night. However, despite its underlying complexity, the offer boiled down to the same straightforward principle that owners portray as vital to their economic survival and players insist they'll never accept:

The linkage of player salaries to a fixed percentage of league revenues.

After spending four hours meeting with Daly, Devils CEO Lou Lamoriello, Calgary part-owner and NHL Board of Governors chairman Harley Hotchkiss and an attorney Thursday night in New York, the players' three-man team returned to Toronto yesterday with no new talks scheduled. NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin, who accompanied Vancouver center and union president Trevor Linden to the meeting, had this to say after going over the league's proposal:

"We continue to have significant philosophical differences."

Facets of the proposal put forth by Daly could be viewed as compromises from previous ownership positions. The most notable was a hike in the individual team payroll caps from the $31 million originally floated to $42 million - and a mandated minimum team payroll of $32 million.

However, even if players were inclined to be encouraged by that, the overriding 54% umbrella darkened their mood. Because if enough of the NHL's 30 teams approached that $42 million payroll level in any season to drive total league player costs past that 54% cap, players would have to give back money.

Last season, for example, the NHL reported that its teams took in approximately $2.1 billion in hockey-related revenue. Fifty-four percent of that works out to an average payroll of $37.8 million per team.

Another feature of the NHL offer reportedly was a $6million annual cap on individual player salaries.

"I just want to know how they can change guaranteed contracts like mine and other people's," Rangers center Bobby Holik said yesterday. "Legally, I mean, not whether it's right or wrong."

Holik, who signed a five-year, $45 million contract with the Rangers two years ago, said there is a key difference between an owner-mandated cap and the 24% rollback on all current contracts that the NHLPA offered in December.

"We agreed to do that," Holik said. "If that's my sacrifice to get the deal done and for players who come after me for years to come, I'm willing to do that. But it's different if it's forced down your throat."

Saying he was only drawing his own conclusions, Holik reflected the opinion of many players who believed Thursday night's proposal was more about spin than concession. Of course, owners had the exact same view of the NHLPA's December proposal that would have produced little drag on salary escalation going forward.

"I can't speak for the PA or for the owners, just as an independent thinker myself," Holik said. "I think the PA made some great offers. And what comes to mind with this is that they're thinking it will look like they made an effort to get something done.

"Very likely I'm wrong and everybody is very sincere. But personal experience makes me skeptical. Maybe I've followed too much politics, where everything is PR."

[manofire2]

FINAL OFFER?

Here is a leaked report on what is thought to be the NHL's final offer to the players, or the season is a wash. Once again in my view, considering the profit sharing, this sounds like a pretty good deal for the average player. I am of the opinion that if the NHLPA allowed this to go to a vote that it would pass by a wide margin.

Term: A six-year deal, not including the balance of this season (if there is to be one), with a provision that would allow the NHLPA to unilaterally terminate the CBA after four full seasons.

Salaries: The league is proposing cost certainty or a team-by-team salary cap, linked to 55 per cent of league revenues. The salary range would have a floor of $32 million and a cap of $42 million, although those figures are slightly misleading as the cost for player benefits (health care, insurance etc.) are also to be included in the salary range. Since the average costs per team for player benefits is in excess of $2 million per year, the actual range for player salaries would be between $30 million and $40 million. But if overall league spending on payroll and benefits exceeds 55 per cent of league revenues, the NHLPA would be obliged to pay back the league the overage from an escrow account. Likewise, if the league spent less than 55 per cent on player compensation, the league would be obliged to make a top-up payment to the NHLPA from the NHL's escrow account.

Luxury tax: The NHL is not proposing a luxury tax but said it would negotiate one if the players really wanted it, but there is apparently no implication that that the league would abandon cost certainty in favour of a tax proposal. Obviously, the players have no interest in a tax system if cost certainty remains in effect. That would change, of course, if the tax system replaced cost certainty, but there's no indication from the league that is about to happen.

Profit sharing: This is a new concept. The league apparently proposed that the NHL and NHLPA appoint a joint auditor to determine mutually agreeable league revenues and profits and that the owners and players would share all profits equally (50-50) in excess of $115 million. The NHL also proposed a heavy fine (using dollars and draft picks) system for teams found guilty of under-reporting revenues and profits.

Revenue sharing: The NHL did not outline a specific revenue sharing plan, but said it would commit whatever dollars are necessary to ensure that small-market teams are able to spend the required dollars to meet the $32 million floor of the payroll range. The expectation is that any NHL revenue sharing plan would be based on a redistribution of playoff monies, not regular season revenue to any great extent.

Salary arbitration: Not only would players be able to file for arbitration, teams would have the option of taking a player to arbitration. This two-way or mirror-image arbitration would have no limits on the size of the awards, but there would be a choice of having one or two or three year arbitration awards. Teams would have the right to walk away from one arbitration award in a specified period, which would make the player an unrestricted free agent. Players would have the right to walk away from one arbitration award in a specified time period, but the player would be obliged to take the team's qualifying offer of 75 per cent of last year's salary.

Qualifying offers: Teams would be obliged to offer 75 per cent of a player's salary from the previous season in order to keep that player's restricted free agent's rights. In the expired CBA, qualifying offers were either 100 or 110 per cent, depending on whether the player was making more or less than the league average annual salary.

Entry-level restrictions: The NHL proposed a four-year entry level system (up one year from the old ELS of three years) with a salary and signing bonus cap totaling no more than $850,000 per year. There is a provision for a maximum of $100,000 in A level bonuses and $250,000 in B level bonuses. Which is to suggest the absolute maximum any entry-level player could make would be $1.2 million per year.

Guaranteed contracts: Buyout provisions (at two thirds of remaining salary) would remain the same as the last CBA.

Unrestricted free agency: The age for unrestricted free agency would drop from 31 to 30.

Now, it should only be a matter of time until the actual proposal is made and then it's all a matter of time, something that is now going to be in short supply in terms of saving a season.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Analysts: NHL better off canceling season
2/12/2005, 5:03 p.m. ET
By ALAN ROBINSON
The Associated Press

PITTSBURGH (AP) — The NHL would further alienate its diminishing fan base by trying to salvage a season that's ruined beyond repair, and is better off canceling the season as it tries to solve its labor mess, according to some well-known sports economists.

Negotiations between the league and its locked-out players union ended Thursday with no progress reported, creating speculation NHL commissioner Gary Bettman will cancel the 2004-05 season as early as Monday. Bettman said a labor deal was needed by this weekend so each team could play a 28-game schedule — about one-third as long as normal — before the playoffs.

The league will find it difficult enough to win back fans that have seemed disinterested at best during the five-month lockout, the economists said, so asking them to support a shortened season played mostly in the springtime with watered-down rosters would be a huge mistake.

Some NHL players already have committed to playing full seasons with European teams and thus won't play in North America even if there is a season.

"They (NHL franchises) are going to be hurting when they come back — they were hurting before the lockout, with a fan base that is thinning out," said Andrew Zimbalist, an economics professor at Smith College who studies economic trends in American sports. "They're alienating a large part of the small fan base they already have.

Neither side has budged from the positions they've long held, with team owners insisting they must have "cost certainty" — a cap on player salaries — and players strongly opposing it.

"They're playing with fire, which isn't a good idea for a sport that skates on ice," Zimbalist said.

Even if the NHL emerges from what would be the first full-season shutdown of a major North American pro sports league with a more favorable owner-friendly labor agreement, the analysts warn hockey will need years to repair the damage.

Franchise values, already the lowest of the four major pro team sports, will be appreciably diminished, they warn, and revenues likely will be lower because ticket prices may have to be lowered to win fans back. Last fall, Forbes Magazine valued six franchises — the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Atlanta Thrashers, Edmonton Oilers, Buffalo Sabres, Pittsburgh Penguins and Carolina Hurricanes — at barely one-tenth as much as the NFL's Washington Redskins, which are worth an estimated $1.1 billion.

"When you have labor strife like this, certainly that impacts value," said Jackie Dal Santo, a Chicago-based executive who evaluates franchises for Willamette Management Associates. "It's difficult to say it's a certain percentage, but it does have an overall impact on the whole league. A lot of NHL teams already filed for or were close to filing for bankruptcy."

The Pittsburgh Penguins, Buffalo Sabres and Ottawa Senators have declared bankruptcy since 1999, although all were later acquired by new owners who kept the clubs operating.

Roger Noll, an economics professor at Stanford University who studies sports business issues, questions if some small-market and Sun Belt franchises will survive longterm. Within 10 years, he envisions a North American super league stripped of perhaps a dozen current franchises, which would fold or become minor-league clubs.

"The notion that the NHL can solve its problems with a salary cap is ludicrous," Noll said. "It will increase profits for the best teams, but it doesn't make the small-market teams viable. The disparity of revenues across the league is greater than in any other sport, and there's no salary solution to that problem. Some teams have 25 times (the local TV revenue) of other teams. The only solution is to get rid of the small-market teams or subsidize them.

"Even if salaries were zero dollars per year, I question if some small-market teams would have enough revenue to cover costs. Blowing up the league is the likely outcome because the big-market teams don't see revenue sharing as being in their best interest," Noll said.

Noll said the NHL's business model doesn't work because it was designed in the mid-1990s around increasing national TV rights and licensing fees. Instead, the league's latest network TV deal with NBC guarantees no money.

"They're basically giving away their games," Noll said. "The NHL hasn't built a sufficient market outside of the northeast quadrant of the United States and southeast Canada. They're stuck with expansion franchises that aren't viable and there is no solution to it. It's just crazy. You can't operate a league the way they're currently operating."

Neal Pilson, the former CBS Sports president who now runs a consulting firm, disagrees with Noll that the league must contract to survive but warns it will take time and considerable effort to win back fans.

"Eventually the league will play hockey again, and the spectators and the viewers will come back," Pilson said. "It (attendance) might not be as strong as before, and there will be a dropoff in viewership — it took baseball 5-6 years to get back the levels it had before the 1994-95 strike. To the NHL, whatever damage they're sustaining now is less than the longterm damage done if they don't restructure their labor agreement."

Pilson thinks NHL players are making "one of the most dramatic miscalculations in labor management history" by refusing to consider a cap.

"The sad thing is the players don't seem to understand that if the season is canceled, their deal is going to be diminished. They're not going to get a better deal a year from now," Pilson said. "The league is going to be in a weaker position, so it's a huge miscalculation on their part that they can increase their bargaining position by refusing any discussion on a hard salary cap."

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

They would be fools to try and dupe us into thinking any kind of season would matter this year.

[E40FDNYL35]

:( and this was the Islanders year for the CUP.....

[VinnieB]

Originally posted by E40FDNYL35
:( and this was the Islanders year for the CUP.....

ROTFLMAO!!! :D :D

Yeah..and the Rangers are in the re-build.....

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
They would be fools to try and dupe us into thinking any kind of season would matter this year.

I agree. As much as I miss it, why bother now:(

[fflynn17]

I'm putting a mourning band on my red wings necklace!

[manofire2]

LET THEM VOTE!!!!!!!

The buzz around here is that given the chance to vote, NHL players would overwhelmingly vote to play under a salary cap. The NHLPA realizes this and will not agree to let its members decide. The owner of the Ottawa Senators has called for the NHLPA to allow the players to vote on the proposal laid out by the owners.

Although I am not a big fan of many of the owners. (Particularly the Detroit Pizza Selling Scumbags, er I mean Red Wings, who are the worst offenders in the obscene salary game.) I have to agree that the players and owners should decide, not the suits.

Kick the Liars (oops Lawyers) out of the room and let them vote.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

I just heard on the radio that Butthead is going to announce it tomorrow .... last week I heard that the announcement wouldn't be made today because of Valentine's Day, or tomorrow because of Mr. Sutter's funeral. As a gesture of respect they should announce it today or Wednesday.

[Dave1983]

:( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad:

[Dave404]

What????They are going to stop flogging that poor horse! Bout time - all I can say - start a season in march - hmmm idiots!

[gunnyv]

Hey manofire2, quit dissing my Wings! Thanks to the lockout, I get to see Chelios and Hatcher play for the UHL Motor City Mechanics and sit in the front row for $20! Can't even get nose bleed seats at the JLA for $40. The Mechanics also have Smolinski (Ottawa) and Sean Avery (LA King and former Wing). And the last game I won the "Chuck a Puck" game and got a diamond necklace for my wife, just in time for Valentines Day. :D Avery, who donates his $500/week to charity was in 3 fights and had 14 minutes of penalties in 1 game. A lot of fun at a reasonable price.

But, isn't it ironic that they love and miss the game so much that they will play in a salary capped minor league for $500/week and $12/day meal money? :rolleyes:

[manofire2]

Originally posted by gunnyv
Hey manofire2, quit dissing my Wings! Thanks to the lockout, I get to see Chelios and Hatcher play for the UHL Motor City Mechanics and sit in the front row for $20! Can't even get nose bleed seats at the JLA for $40. The Mechanics also have Smolinski (Ottawa) and Sean Avery (LA King and former Wing). And the last game I won the "Chuck a Puck" game and got a diamond necklace for my wife, just in time for Valentines Day. :D Avery, who donates his $500/week to charity was in 3 fights and had 14 minutes of penalties in 1 game. A lot of fun at a reasonable price.

But, isn't it ironic that they love and miss the game so much that they will play in a salary capped minor league for $500/week and $12/day meal money? :rolleyes:

What's worse is these heroes are taking jobs away from guys who are playing to put food on the table. That is a heck of an additude considering those guys are SUPPOSEDLY union members.

The fact that these guys are doing this makes hiring replacement players totally legitimate.

By them way, I don't diss your Wings what I "diss" is predatory owners like Mike Ilich who feel that they can simply outbid the competition for every player on the market. Although I am an Oilers fan, it was great to see the Flames eliminate you over-priced Wings last year.

LET THE PLAYERS VOTE!!!!!

[manofire2]

Oh and just in case you don't agree with me, then how about Corey Hirsch.

'Scabs' taking our jobs

Former NHL goalie Corey Hirsch has a pregnant wife and kids ... he's out of a job ... and he's angry at NHLers

By COREY HIRSCH, For the Sun



Goaltender Corey Hirsch, 32, was playing for the Langnau Tigers of the Swiss "A" League when the NHL lockout hit. The former NHLer's life has been affected by the influx of locked-out NHLers to Europe.

Over the last couple of weeks, Hirsch and Sun columnist Chris Stevenson have been exchanging e-mails about the situation facing players in Europe who have lost their jobs since the arrival of the locked-out NHLers. Hirsch is one of them. His is the story behind the headline every time you read another NHLer is Europe-bound. Here is his story, in his words.

The NHL lockout has affected many people on a variety of different levels, but every time an NHL player signs in Europe, another life is affected.

At the time of the writing of this article, we are now at 231 NHLers in Europe and counting.

One of these lives affected is my own.

I came to Europe two years ago to get away from the NHL.

For whatever reason, like many of my North American colleagues over here, I didn't make it in the NHL. Europe was the next-best option to keep my career going. Once again, though, the NHL has me in its grasp.

It's like a choke hold I can't get out of, but this time it's different, it's my fellow players who are doing the damage.

NHL players are coming to Europe in droves and are bumping off, one by one, players that actually need the money. While I can empathize that some players feel they have to play or they may become lockout casualties themselves, the lack of compassion and understanding of what they are doing to many of the players in Europe is extremely unnerving.

Every day, I read another arrogant quote from someone coming to play in Europe for no reason but to stay in shape.

Where is the logic in not negotiating a CBA that will still pay a player more than he will ever need, but instead he'll come to Europe to play just to stay in shape?

I think some of these players should have a talk with my pregnant wife and kids who moved their lives to Europe, only to watch me sit in the stands game after game, because I have been bumped by an NHL player. It is now realistic that I may not play a game this season.

At some point, the NHL lockout will end and a strong majority of these players will go back to the NHL. They will have careers making great salaries, but the damage they will have left in their wake will be irreparable.

While they are back playing, myself and many others will be fighting for jobs that pay minute salaries compared to the NHL. Without playing the previous season due to this mess, many players in Europe may have to retire.

I am left to wonder if any of the NHL players understand the repercussions of their actions. When the topic of NHL replacement players comes up, it is met with anger and resistance.

Do NHL players not realize that this is exactly what they are doing by taking jobs in Europe?

They are scabs over here, replacement players, basically rented to put fans in the seats.

All the players they are stepping on over here will now be the first to stand in line if and when the NHL needs replacement players.

I understand that my views will probably not change anything, nor will it save any jobs over here. They will, however, give NHL players an understanding that it is not okay to bring their lockout mess to Europe and believe that they are doing no harm.

We are now at 231 lives and counting, not to mention the families that have been affected. So before NHL players come to Europe, I suggest they take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are coming.

Other than to stay in shape, they will be playing for little money and will be destroying others' job security.

I have to ask, is this not exactly what the NHL players are fighting against back in North America?

[Bones42]

For whatever reason, like many of my North American colleagues over here, I didn't make it in the NHL. Ummm, maybe your just not good enough?:o

[RspctFrmCalgary]

NHLPA offers $52-million US salary cap but NHL rejects stunning offer
15/02/2005 4:02:00 AM

NEW YORK (CP) - The No. 1 issue that has plagued the NHL lockout went out the window Monday night when the NHL Players' Association offered a deal that included a $52-million US salary cap, The Canadian Press has learned.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is shown after meetings with the NHLPA in Toronto last week. (CP/Adrian Wyld) But the deal was rejected by the NHL. The surprising move was made by NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin during his secret meeting with NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly in Niagara Falls, N.Y. Daly began the process Monday by offering a $40-million salary cap without "linkage" - a fixed link between player costs and league revenues, which has long been the centrepiece of the NHL's bid for cost certainty. The union counter-offered with the $52-million team-by-team salary cap.

The players' proposal also featured more aggressive payroll tax thresholds and tax rates on team payrolls.

"It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides today we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement," Saskin told The Canadian Press early Tuesday.

The union's offer also included the 24 per cent salary rollback on all existing contracts.

These latest developments came as the NHL announced a news conference for Wednesday at 1 p.m. EST in New York when commissioner Gary Bettman is expected to announce the cancellation of the 2004-2005 season.

While no talks were planned for Tuesday, the fact that both sides made dramatic moves from their longstanding positions Monday night could spur on more last-ditch efforts to save the season.

As it stands, the players have finally accepted a salary cap for the first time in their history while the league gave up on linkage. Now the two sides are separated by $12 million on their cap figures. And with the rollback, two-thirds of the league's teams would be under $40 million.

But is it too late?

Earlier on Monday night, the league sent out a statement saying talks between Daly and Saskin produced "no progress."

Bettman's news conference was originally slated for Tuesday, according to a source, but pushed back a day as Daly and Saskin met late into the night.

It all made for a roller-coaster day.

"I've said all along, until someone tells me it's over, it's not," Devils GM and CEO Lou Lamoriello said from his New Jersey office Monday. "It's too easy to be negative.

"There's no question we have something scheduled at this point for Wednesday. It's looking very bleak right now but it's not over."

The Devils boss also offered some advice.

"To me, let's get rid of all these buzz words (salary cap, luxury tax) and get something done that works for everybody," he said.

Should the worst happen Wednesday, the NHL will become the first major professional league in North America to cancel an entire season from start to finish. But Bettman says the damage the NHL will suffer as a result is worth it in order to get "cost certainty" for his owners.

The NHL and the union met for more than five hours with U.S. federal mediators in Washington on Sunday but still could not make any progress. Bettman and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow were not at the meeting. Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, and outside counsel Bob Batterman represented the league while Saskin, the NHLPA's senior director, and outside counsel John McCambridge were there for the union.

So much of the season has already been scrapped. Through Monday, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have gone by the wayside.

If an agreement can still be reached, the league has a shortened schedule ready to go that would see teams play 28 regular-season games, playing only within their conference. The playoffs would stay the same and consist of four rounds.

[manofire2]

Originally posted by Bones42
Ummm, maybe your just not good enough?:o

That could be but it does not excuse the NHL players going over to Europe and/or minor leagues and taking jobs.

Ability is not the sole reason for players to seek employment in other leagues. Mr. Hirsch in all likelihood could play back-up goalie on most NHL teams but choses to play in Europe where he is a starter. Many players chose to play in Europe because their NHL team has them on a minor league contract and they can get a one way deal in Europe. Still other players chose to play in Europe due to the shorter season and less travel, thereby affording them more time with their families.

Again the issue is not talent, it is the NHL millionaires playing for pin money and taking jobs away from guys who need the dough. Add to that, the hypocracy of the NHLPA refusing to accept a salary cap but its players are seemingly willing to play for far less in minor leagues.

[Bones42]

manofire2, couldn't agree with you more on the issue. I have one NHL'er living near me who went to Germany for a month. He needed the money to pay his taxes on his current 3rd home. :rolleyes:

As for Hirsch, his quote, "I didn't make it in the NHL" says it all. He did not choose Europe over NHL, it was his "next-best option to keep my career going".

[Bones42]

If NHL started up again with games in 2 weeks from now....would anyone go to see them?

[E40FDNYL35]

Originally posted by Bones42
If NHL started up again with games in 2 weeks from now....would anyone go to see them?

I would....

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by Bones42
If NHL started up again with games in 2 weeks from now....would anyone go to see them?

Can't speak for next year, but not this year. It would be a farce.

[manofire2]

I think you would be surprized at how quickly the fans will forgive and forget. Some markets won't rebound but your traditional ones will. I think some of the "soft" markets like the sunbelt ones, may be a difficult sell but the Canadian and Northern US will be more accepting.

It may be coincidence but I received an E-Mail from the Calgary Flames today offering ticket packages. Could it be the team offices know something they are not telling us yet.

Although I've been wrong on most of my predictions with regard to the lock-out, my spidie senses are telling me we'll be watching some hockey this year. Whether or not it is all a positive remains to be seen.

[Dave404]

Last I heard it would be a 24 game schedule - prior to the playoff. 12 home 12 away. WHAT A JOKE. You are honestly going to give the Stanley cup to a team that got lucky! Make them play through the summer if they want to make a season out of it.

I for one havent actually paid to see a NHL game for 5 years. I go to games to watch hockey - not commercials. I watch the NHL classics and their is no advertising to be seen - now its plastered everywhere. Bring real hockey back!

Disgruntled
DAve

[RspctFrmCalgary]

If I was still in Calgary, I would go to a game in the summertime, damm rights I would!

Newest I heard was that the NHL offered $42mil cap and the NHLPA has until 11am EST tomorrow to respond.

[manofire2]

If the NHLPA agree with what's on the table which is a $42.5 million hard cap and a 24% roll back of salaries, that still leaves the Red Wing payroll at $82.9 million. I believe under the NHLPA offer that would mean that Detroit must pay a 150% penalty.

Mr. Ilich is going to have to sell a lot of pizzas.

CA CHING!

[manofire2]

GAME OFF!!!!

The fat lady sings and not just in Philadelphia. It is a shame that it had to end this way when in the end the sides were so close.

Both sides should be ashamed!

[Bones42]

It may be coincidence but I received an E-Mail from the Calgary Flames today offering ticket packages Were they for a really really really good price?

GAME OFF!!!! :(

[RspctFrmCalgary]

:( :( :( :(

Let's hope they don't f'it up. They have the time to see it done right now.

[FFTide]

Game not on... :( :( :(

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I want to be wrong about this, but here is a prediction or two...

1. There will never be a CBA signed between the current league and the current PA. Before next season, they will cut these guys loose and they will start the season with, for lack of a better term, replacement players.

2. An alternative league will start up and sign the top players for ridiculously huge contracts. They will stick all kinds of hokey gimmicks into the game, encourage fighting and turn it into a WWE on Ice.

3. The game that many of us know and love will be ruined forever due to greed, selfishness and short-sightedness on both sides.

[E40FDNYL35]

It is a sad day...:(

[Bones42]

and yet the Devils keep moving forward on building a new stadium in Newark that they STILL won't sellout.

[manofire2]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
I want to be wrong about this, but here is a prediction or two...

1. There will never be a CBA signed between the current league and the current PA. Before next season, they will cut these guys loose and they will start the season with, for lack of a better term, replacement players.



2. An alternative league will start up and sign the top players for ridiculously huge contracts. They will stick all kinds of hokey gimmicks into the game, encourage fighting and turn it into a WWE on Ice.

3. The game that many of us know and love will be ruined forever due to greed, selfishness and short-sightedness on both sides.

1. You may be right and I partially agree. My own take on what will happen is that the NHLPA as it exists right now will be turfed by the players. There already are signs that the players are not in total agreement with their PA. Some are saying out loud and many are indicating that they are not pleased that they weren't allowed to vote on the issues. If the league goes ahead with replacement players, I don't see it as all bad. Look at the NFL which has not been stronger and has put a better show on since their strike.

2. Although the "new" WHA is in the works, I don't think we will see wholesale changes in the game itself. There is a need to change the game but not the changes you suggest. There will be moves to open up the game but I can't see any gain to going the WWE route.

3. On this we are in total agreement, nobody wins in this and the hockey fan is the big loser. Both sides should be ashamed of what they've done.

[RyanEMVFD]

I guess this means Tampa Bay will hold the record for having the Cup the longest and only winning it once. :)

Actually behind the Stars I root for Tampa Bay.

Here's hoping there is a next season.

[ndvfdff33]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
An alternative league will start up and sign the top players for ridiculously huge contracts. They will stick all kinds of hokey gimmicks into the game, encourage fighting and turn it into a WWE on Ice.

You've obviously never seen the new league they got in quebec..This exact description is whats going on in this league...Ken Tasker,Donald Brashear and other greats make this league up..:rolleyes: ...I can recall seeing games with numerous line brawls..players even fighting with fans..Its unbeleiveable and a disgrace to hockey..


And the WHA will never go...It had its chance to go in the summer and it failed...

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by RyanEMVFD
I guess this means Tampa Bay will hold the record for having the Cup the longest and only winning it once. :)

Actually behind the Stars I root for Tampa Bay.

Here's hoping there is a next season.

:) :) :)

I just hope they arent the final cup holders.

This mess couldnt have come at a worse time for the Lightning. A young, very talented team that plays an exciting brand of hockey and will continue to improve over the next couple years. This could have been the first of several cups:(

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by ndvfdff33


You've obviously never seen the new league they got in quebec..This exact description is whats going on in this league...Ken Tasker,Donald Brashear and other greats make this league up..:rolleyes: ...I can recall seeing games with numerous line brawls..players even fighting with fans..Its unbeleiveable and a disgrace to hockey..


And the WHA will never go...It had its chance to go in the summer and it failed...

I have no idea whether you agree with me or not. Yuo tell me I've obviously never seen something, then tell me I described it accurately. I don't remember saying anything about the WHA, but there is enough money there to get that league off the ground. There will be a huge number of fans who go to those games to protest the NHL.

[fflynn17]

I've got it so bad, I'm following high school hockey:rolleyes:

[ndvfdff33]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


I have no idea whether you agree with me or not. Yuo tell me I've obviously never seen something, then tell me I described it accurately. I don't remember saying anything about the WHA, but there is enough money there to get that league off the ground. There will be a huge number of fans who go to those games to protest the NHL.


What I was saying was, The league which you depicted already exists..Its called the LNAH or some stupid thing like that and basically, like I said, It promotes fighting and thats about all the league is about...

And no you did not mention anything about the WHA someone else did...I should have made it more clear whom I was talking to in that part of the post

[Dave404]

I mentioned WHA a while back! It had its day - maybe FOX could make it better:D

Jeremy Roenick is going to start his own league any how - I wonder if they will have games with the replacement players in the NHL.

Politics have ruined the best sport in the world:mad: Not Happy!

[NJFFSA16]

TORONTO (AP) - The NHL and the players' association held
small-group discussions for more than 10 hours Wednesday, again
working on a review of revenue measurement and financial reporting
issues.
The meetings lasted from about 11 a.m. until approximately 9:30
p.m., and will continue with a larger group Thursday as the sides
try to find common ground on team revenues and how to associate
them to a salary cap in a new collective bargaining agreement.
Both sides have agreed that a salary cap model with an upper and
lower limit will be the centerpiece of a new agreement, but have
labored through the financial review in order to tie revenues to
the moving cap figure.
Bill Daly, the league's chief legal officer, declined to comment
about the meeting, saying in a statement that he wouldn't talk
about any of the matters discussed until after Thursday's session.
He also said rumors of an imminent agreement were "untrue."
Wednesday's session was the 17th meeting since the season was
canceled Feb. 16.
Ted Saskin, senior director of the NHLPA, was joined in
Wednesday's meetings by outside counsel John McCambridge, associate
counsel Ian Pulver, players' executive committee president Trevor
Linden and vice president Vincent Damphousse.
Daly represented the NHL along with Boston Bruins owner Jeremy
Jacobs, outside counsel Bob Batterman, NHL general counsel David
Zimmerman and lawyer Shep Goldfein.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, director of hockey operations
Colin Campbell, New Jersey Devils CEO and general manager Lou
Lamoriello, board of governors chairman Harley Hotchkiss of the
Calgary Flames and Nashville Predators owner Craig Leipold are
expected to join the discussions Thursday.
NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow will also participate
Thursday, along with Brendan Shanahan of the Detroit Red Wings.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I tried, I really tried. Saw my first Ranger game in the old Garden (4-0 loss to the Canadians) in 1965. I have bled red, white and blue since then. (Potvin sucks).

But try as I might, I simply don't care anymore.

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
But try as I might, I simply don't care anymore.

Thought It would never come to this but, I think I'm with you here George:( :( :(

[firenresq77]

For those that care........

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/3758718

NHL, NHLPA reach agreement in principle
Story Tools: Print Email
Associated Press
Posted: 24 minutes ago



The NHL and the players' association reached an agreement in principle Wednesday on a six-year labor deal, ending a lockout that wiped out last season.

The sides met for 24 hours starting Tuesday afternoon to hammer out the collective bargaining agreement that will return the NHL to the ice on time in the fall. In February, commissioner Gary Bettman canceled the season, making the NHL the first North American sports league to lose a year because of a labor dispute.
NHL lockout over...


Fischler: A deal at last!

Spector: Details leaking out

Plan to win back fans

NHL, NHLPA reach agreement

NHL lockout chronology

Which players will be bought out?

NHL draft: Who will pick No. 1?



"It's a new day," Philadelphia Flyers coach Ken Hitchcock told The Associated Press. "It's pretty exciting."

Both sides still need to ratify the deal, a pact that is expected to contain a salary cap - something players' union executive director Bob Goodenow never wanted. That process is expected to be completed next week, the league and the union said in a joint news release.

"To be totally honest, I really don't care what the deal is anymore. All I care about is getting the game back on the ice," Flyers star Jeremy Roenick said in a telephone interview during a celebrity golf event in Nevada.

"I think the deal is not great for the players. It is definitely an owner-friendly deal. For the last 10 years, the players have made a lot of money and now we are in a position where everybody is going to make money," he said. "Unfortunately, it had to take a whole year to get to a point where we could have been last year."

While the NHL seems to have gotten what it wanted, there is no way to measure the damage done to a sport that already was the least popular of the four major leagues in the United States.

"That's going to be our next big step - winning back the fans," said Nashville Predators forward Jim McKenzie, a 15-year NHL veteran. "We'll have our work cut out for us."

If all goes according to plan, a scaled-down draft is expected to be held later this month and training camps will open from Vancouver to Miami in September. Real NHL games will be back on the schedule come October.

"It'll be a great thing to get the game back up," Columbus Blue Jackets coach Gerard Gallant said.

Selling the sport might take a while longer.

During the lockout, disgruntled Buffalo fan Doug Sitler sold more than 15,000 magnetic car ribbons that read: "I need my hockey fix(ed)."

"I think it's going to take a little bit of time for people to get back in the swing of things," he said. "But sports fans are pretty fickle. They have short memories. They really do."

It took all night and then some for the final round of negotiations to produce an agreement.

The sides met for 10 straight days in New York, and it became clear Wednesday morning - the 301st day of the lockout - that they weren't going to leave the room without an agreement in hand.

The expected salary cap will likely have a ceiling approaching $40 million and a minimum somewhere between $20 million and $25 million.

Player salaries will not exceed 54 percent of league-wide revenues.

Bettman warned in February that the offers the union passed up were better than any it would see once a year of hockey was lost.

Just days before the season was wiped out, the players' association said for the first time it would accept a salary cap if the league dropped its desire to link player costs to revenues.

That started a wild week that included the cancellation of the season on Feb. 16 and a false hope three days later that it would be saved. Even Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux - superstars turned executives - couldn't resurrect it during an emergency bargaining session in New York.

Negotiations resumed in mid-March.

Bettman promised "cost certainty" in the form of a hard salary cap to the owners and he has gotten it.

The landscape of the NHL will be quite different than it was back in June 2004 when the Tampa Bay Lightning skated off with the Stanley Cup in the league's last game before the lockout. For the first time since a flu epidemic in 1919, there was no Stanley Cup champion in 2005.

Now when the league relaunches in the fall, it will do so with a brand new salary structure that keeps high-spending teams such as Toronto, Philadelphia and the New York Rangers in line.

The first order of business after the deal is ratified will be to get a majority of the players signed. The belief is that last season's contracts will be wiped from the books, leaving many players without deals.

Those who are still under contract will have their salaries reduced by 24 percent, a concept first proposed by the union last December. Some expensive players will also be on the market as teams pare payrolls to get down to the cap.

There will also be several rules changes that could run the gamut from the size of goaltender equipment to the installation of a shootout to eliminate tie games.

"Our focus right now, from the coaches standpoint, is we're waiting to see what our roster is going to look like and what the playing rules are going to look like," Hitchcock said in a phone interview.

The draft was supposed to be held last month in Ottawa, but the Canadian capital might get to host the event soon.

Canadian phenom Sidney Crosby is the consensus choice to be the No. 1 pick. Where he goes will be determined by a draft lottery that will give each team an opportunity to snag him.

He will certainly be part of the NHL's campaign to win back fans that were disenchanted by the lockout.

The deal finally came down during sport's biggest lull of the year - the baseball All-Star break.

The NHL probably won't hold such an event until 2007 as next year's All-Star game is expected to be replaced by an Olympic break, allowing for players to represent their countries in Turin, Italy.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

It is slightly ironic that the Chicago Blackhawks new coach is Trent YAWNey . :cool:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

For those that care........

I used to care. I hope I can care again, but I'm not sure.

[E40FDNYL35]

July 13, 2005 --The NHL lockout is finally close to ending and clubs will need to lure back fans. Here's a look at what all 30 teams plan to do in terms of ticket prices:

Anaheim: Season ticket prices have been rolled back an average of 5.28 per cent.

The biggest cuts are on about 1,500 seats that drop to $9.50 US from $25 a game. Prices have been frozen through 2006-2007.

Subscribers will get free parking, food and non-alcoholic beverages for the first three home games.

A new 2-for-1 scheme allows a family of four to buy four seats (buy two, get two) for a total of $47 a game.

"We believe our new pricing structure combined with our price rollback will keep NHL hockey affordable in southern California," said Bob Wagner, senior vice-president and chief marketing officer.

Atlanta: No change.

The Thrashers did not raise ticket prices at any time during their first four years, and many price categories were lowered. Price increases were introduced prior to what would have been the start of the 2004-2005 season and "our plan is to carry those same prices over to the new season once the CBA gets resolved," said a club spokesman.

Boston: "Boston has committed to at least maintaining the 2003-2004 price levels, but a decision on decreasing any prices for next season has not yet been made." - club spokesman.

Buffalo: The Sabres have yet to release details of 2005-2006 prices but they're already the lowest in the league. In April 2003, the team cut season ticket prices six to eight per cent to combat falling attendance. Seats were $29 US a game at the 100 level, and $10 a game at the 300 level.

Also, the Sabres will introduce packages pegging seat prices to lure of opponent.

Calgary: Flames president Ken King says the club isn't expecting to reduce prices.

"We have indicated we will certainly not be increasing prices on seats," King told the Calgary Sun. "The likely scenario, because our ticket prices are among the lowest in the league, is that they'll remain the same."

Carolina: Season-ticket holders, who got a reduction of 20 per cent if they paid in full by last April, are getting another 10 per cent reduction. A further decrease of 15 per cent will be applied for 2006-2007 renewals, and another 20 per cent will be lopped off for 2007-2008 renewals.

"Returning season-ticket holders will see significant reductions in price as a result of their loyalty to the team," said a club statement.

General game-day prices in specific seating areas will be lowered but "with some of the lowest gate prices in the NHL already, there probably will not be across-the-board reductions in general gate prices," said a club spokesman.

Chicago: The Blackhawks were 28th out of 30 teams in average ticket price in 2003-04, their average ticket price 22.8 per cent lower than the average NHL ticket price.

"I know we will give our season ticket holders a 10 per cent discount and we are talking about doing some other things as well but have not yet decided. We will still be offering a student discount which will allow students showing their ID's to be able to purchase a ticket for as little as $8. There are not too many professional sporting events where you can get a ticket for $8," said a club spokesman.

Colorado "We're waiting to see what the exact terms of the CBA are before we make a decision on that. But we will definitely do what's fair for our fans." - club spokesman.

Columbus: The Blue Jackets confirm that they will be reducing prices. Details will be announced once a new CBA is in place.

Dallas: Price reductions confirmed. No details as yet.

Detroit: To be determined once new CBA in place.

Edmonton: The Oilers decline comment "until we have been presented with a new CBA which will then allow us to determine the business environment (costs versus revenues) in which we will operate." - club spokesman.

Florida: The Panthers lowered season seat prices in six of 10 pricing categories prior to what would have been a 2004-2005 season. In addition, a limited number of upper level seats previously priced at $430 will be reduced to $365 ($8.50 US a game).

"We have not raised ticket prices in several years. We have also increased the value of privileges such as exclusive meet and greets with the team, autograph sessions, concert purchasing priority, etc. The Panthers season ticket prices are in the bottom half of the league." - club spokesman.

Los Angeles: "We've decided what we're going to do but we're not going to announce it until after (the lockout ends)." - club spokesman.

Minnesota: "We will not be announcing ticket prices until a new CBA is reached." - team spokesman.

Montreal: To be determined.

Nashville: "The Predators are not going to make a final decision on 2005-2006 ticket prices until after the new CBA is introduced." - team spokesman.

New Jersey: To be determined.

New York Islanders: Maintaining their season prices. "Our season subscribers already receive the deepest discounts off box office prices in the NHL. Our season subscribers receive discounts ranging from 32-49 per cent off over-the-counter prices." - club spokesman.

New York Rangers: Across-the-board reduction of 10 per cent from 2003-2004 prices.

Ottawa: The Senators froze ticket prices for two years in a row before the lockout and are providing a rebate of five per cent for the 2005-2006 season. Ticket holders who left the whole amount of their 2004-05 monies on account will receive 7.5 per cent interest on their money.

"As well, the Senators will also be announcing additional initiatives for fans, but that information will only be released at a news conference post-NHL/NHLPA CBA announcement." - team spokesman.

Philadelphia: "Our ticket prices depend on the CBA resolution so they are still to be determined." - club spokesman.

Phoenix: No across-the-board reductions are planned but season-ticket holders who renew can get free tickets: renew two tickets and get an additional two tickets free for the entire season.

"It's a very aggressive and generous offer," said a club spokesman.

Pittsburgh: The Penguins announced late in the 2003-2004 season that they would be cutting prices of every seat and every season-ticket plan. Details will be released prior to the start of a new season.

St. Louis: As announced June 11, Club season tickets drop to $79 US a game from $83, and Plaza seats fall to $72 from $77. Less expensive seats, such as Plaza End and Mezzanine High End, are unchanged.

This will be the fourth consecutive year the Blues have frozen or lowered ticket prices.

San Jose: An average reduction of 10 per cent throughout the arena will be applied.

Last increase was 2002. Interest rate of seven per cent being paid subscribers who have paid-up accounts.

Tampa Bay: "Our situation is still undecided and we likely will not announce anything until after a (CBA) is reached." - club spokesman.

Toronto: "The Leafs do not know what the price structure is going to be yet." - club spokesman.

Vancouver: "Until the agreement is finalized and we have the opportunity to completely understand how the CBA impacts our team as a whole, we will not be making a final decision on ticket prices. In addition, our season-ticket holders will receive a two-year prices freeze, and the overall feedback from our clients has been that our current pricing is fair. But we will review this again in the near future." - club spokesman.

Washington: Capitals reduced prices by an average of 11 per cent in April 2004 and will continue with that discount for 2005-06. Individual game prices for 2005-2006 yet to be set.

[Weruj1]

well hockey is back but ..................DO WE CARE ?

[downtownlt]

didnt care till the pens logo was in the
#1 pick envelope !!!!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by downtownlt
didnt care till the pens logo was in the
#1 pick envelope !!!!

Big deal. They can't afford him. Even if they sign him, the first time he is eligible for free agency, he is gone.

[manofire2]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


Big deal. They can't afford him. Even if they sign him, the first time he is eligible for free agency, he is gone.

Don't go holding your breath expecting him to show up in Broadway Blues anytime soon George. From what I've heard that won't happen (free agency) for 7 years under the new agreement, however details are still coming out. The whole draft thing being done behind closed doors leaves a cloud of suspicion as to whether or not it was on the up and up.

I wonder now what the MLB players association is thinking. As I had discussed previously, they had been reported to have supported the NHLPA financially with the expectation being they would not agree to a salary cap. Now that the NHL does have a 'cap' it leaves MLB as the only major professional sport without one and you can bet there will be pressure to have one in baseball as well.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by manofire2


Don't go holding your breath expecting him to show up in Broadway Blues anytime soon George. From what I've heard that won't happen (free agency) for 7 years under the new agreement, however details are still coming out. The whole draft thing being done behind closed doors leaves a cloud of suspicion as to whether or not it was on the up and up.

I wonder now what the MLB players association is thinking. As I had discussed previously, they had been reported to have supported the NHLPA financially with the expectation being they would not agree to a salary cap. Now that the NHL does have a 'cap' it leaves MLB as the only major professional sport without one and you can bet there will be pressure to have one in baseball as well.

That wasn't the point of my post (Rangers). It is years away. We don't even know if the NHL will survive that long. I also agree with you about the integrity of the draft.

MLB must be hitting the OS button. Plain and simple, this lockout/strike/hissy fit proved one thing: The players can't do anything w/o the owners and the owners can't do squat w/o the players. This ended just the way many people predicted that it would. MLBPA has even more to worry about. They do not have the international outlets where they can earn a living while they wait out a strike. Japan doesn't want them, the Latin American leagues can't pay them.

I think you have seen the last pro sports strike/lockout.
That is, if they have learned anything.

BTW, did anyone hear the Mike and the Mad Dog show when the draft was going on? Mike was unmerciful on the Pens.

[FFTrainer]

I think you have seen the last pro sports strike/lockout.

Anybody notice how quick and quiet the NBA Collective Bargaining agreement was renewed??? It appears as if they learned from the misfortunes of the NHL and didn't want to suffer the same fate.

[manofire2]

I too would hope this is the last time we have to go through this, but somehow I doubt it will be.

I would love to see the fans organize and sit out the first game in every NHL city. Not that it would accomplish anything it but would be a great (if not futile) gesture.

[fflynn17]

I grew up with the Red Wings. My mom jokes that "Delvecchio" was my first word. I had a piece of puck-shaped cake for Howe's 500th goal at the old Olympia.

I will be online Wednesday looking for when the Wings play the Rangers, Devils and Islanders in the NY area, and buying the best tickets I can get.

I will also be purchasing tickets for "The Joe" for the few days I am in Michigan during Christmas.

I have lived in NY for 14 years now. I can wear a Yankees or Mets shirt, a Jets or Giants shirt, I CANNOT wear a hockey team other than the Wings.

Die hard is a good description I guess......

[manofire2]

Originally posted by fflynn17
I grew up with the Red Wings. My mom jokes that "Delvecchio" was my first word. I had a piece of puck-shaped cake for Howe's 500th goal at the old Olympia.

I will be online Wednesday looking for when the Wings play the Rangers, Devils and Islanders in the NY area, and buying the best tickets I can get.

I will also be purchasing tickets for "The Joe" for the few days I am in Michigan during Christmas.

I have lived in NY for 14 years now. I can wear a Yankees or Mets shirt, a Jets or Giants shirt, I CANNOT wear a hockey team other than the Wings.

Die hard is a good description I guess......

Nice to see loyalty and I too grew up a large Howe, Delvechio etc. fan. Being a sometime goalie, Roger Crozier was always one of my heroes. I think I became a Leaf fan (not anymore since the Oilers came to Edmonton) the day Norm Ulman arrived from Detroit.

That however was then and this is now. I am sure that George will cringe at my old rant but the Little Caesars Red Wings are the ones most to blaim for the troubles that the NHL has gone through over this past year and a half. Although there are other culprets, the Red Wings and their "Cheque Book Recruiting" have seriously damaged the game I love.

Mike Ilich is the worst thing that ever happened to hockey and he and Marion should do the entire hockey world a favor and leave forever.

[fflynn17]

Originally posted by fflynn17

I will be online Wednesday looking for w