Smallpox.

[stm4710]

Anyone else watch this tonight?

What did you think?

[E40FDNYL35]

It seemed plausible. I think the U.S. is in better shape than they make it out to be. The U.S. has been stockpiling smallpox vaccinations for awhile now. I know FDNY has been working on contiguity plans now with drills. (Bio Pod 1 and 2). We continue to drill and make are members more aware. I think educating our members is important. Over all FX did a good job.

[nmfire]

I hope they re-run it. I was watching the usual non-stop Law & Order on TNT all evening and missed it.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Here is the scariest thing about a possible smallpox outbreak in this country....

Remember the panic when people could not get their flu vacine?

[NJFFSA16]

From the CDC website:
Currently, the United States has a big enough stockpile of smallpox vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the United States in the event of a smallpox emergency.

For some valuable information on smallpox, go to the CDC website:
Smallpox Fact Sheet (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccination/facts.asp)

Interesting facts about receiving the vaccine:
****************************** ******
The smallpox vaccine is not given with a hypodermic needle. It is not a shot as most people have experienced. The vaccine is given using a bifurcated (two-pronged) needle that is dipped into the vaccine solution. When removed, the needle retains a droplet of the vaccine. The needle is used to prick the skin a number of times in a few seconds. The pricking is not deep, but it will cause a sore spot and one or two droplets of blood to form. The vaccine usually is given in the upper arm.

If the vaccination is successful, a red and itchy bump develops at the vaccine site in three or four days. In the first week, the bump becomes a large blister, fills with pus, and begins to drain. During the second week, the blister begins to dry up and a scab forms. The scab falls off in the third week, leaving a small scar. People who are being vaccinated for the first time have a stronger reaction than those who are being revaccinated.
****************************** ********

Nice, huh? But when weighed against the alternative....get the vaccine!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Maybe I should have stated my point more clearly.

There is no question that there is enough vaccine, if it is properly administered, to contain an outbreak eventually. My point was that there are a whole lot of people who believe that they need the vaccine BEFORE ANYONE ELSE!

[CaptainGonzo]

I was under the impression that smallpox was eradicated, and only two live samples of the virus exist... one at the CDC in Atlanta, and it's equivalent in Russia... if this is the case, are we worrying for nothing?

[pete892]

Don't forget that if you have been vacinated in the past you may have some immunity. No tests have been done that have actually exposed people to smallpox to see the affect of previous vacinations.

Being an old guy, I have been vacinated twice. Once as an infant and again in the service. My kids were about the last to be vacinated as infants.

George has a valid point. We have discussed this in the county emergency management organization and have come to the conclusion that while we have access to ample amounts of vacine, the distribution and possible panic will be the big problems.

Stay safe,

Pete

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Gonzo, it is erradicated from an epidemiological standpoint. However, there are stray cases in undeveloped countries. In addition, my information from my meetings was that there are many more samples of the virus out there then what we might expect.

What the main worry is, is for the virus to fall into thewrong hands and for a purposely infected person to circulate among the population and infect as many people as possible. If a religious zealot would strap a bomb on his chest, it is reasnable to assume that he would willingly infect himself with a fatal disease.

Pete is right. We discussed the same thing. The ensuing rumor mongering and panic would make the distribution of the vaccine a security nightmare.

[Dalmatian90]

The risk of a small-pox attack is incredibly tiny.

But the risk is "non-zero" --

The need for the United States to retain real virus samples was made even clearer last year thanks to ominous testimony from Ken Alibek, the former deputy director of the largest and most dangerous illegal biological weapons program in the world -- that run by the Kremlin's Biopreparat organization. 1 Mr. Alibek, who defected to the United States in 1992, testified before Congress about the extent of the Soviet and Russian BW program in May 1998. On the occasion, he declared that the Soviet Union had produced "hundreds of tons of anthrax weapon...along with dozens of tons of smallpox and plague. The total production capacity of all of the facilities involved was many hundreds of tons of various agents annually."

Given the political & economic state of Russia, the question is was/are all the stockpiles of these types of weapons accounted for and secured?

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.or g/index.jsp?section=papers&code=99-D_36

(By the way...the link is an article written in 1999 on this subject)

(Also, France and Smallpox is like Israel and Nuclear Weapons...so the question becomes who else has maintained clandestined supplies sitting in a University fridge somewhere...)

[sassy1]

Well my main concern would be if the vacinations are still good? In me-and those who already recieved them, that is.:o I know for a fact that I recieved a small pox vacination the last year they were made available to small children here. I can't see the scar now, but I do remember having a slight one when I was younger. So my concern would be--is it any good?? :( I know that we recieve Hep-B shots and sometimes after exposure our titers test negative and we have to start the series over (:mad: not fun!!) However, no one has ever discussed if those who recieved small pox vacines can have their titers tested for that. I think it would bring some peace of mind to those who could facillitate a calmer reaction if something were to occur here. Okay--what do you think? Am I being a scaredy-cat?:p

[CaptainGonzo]

George and Matt...

Thank you for the clarification and information.

[NJFFSA16]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
My point was that there are a whole lot of people who believe that they need the vaccine BEFORE ANYONE ELSE!

Oh, you are SO right on target with that statement. You'll see the best...and the worst human qualities become evident at that point.

Good people going out of their way to provide assistance for those who need it.....and horrible people doing whatever they can to get their vaccine first. Money is no object, I'm an important person, I'm valuable to society...a whole variety of schemes, scams and scums.

Let's pray it never comes to that.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by sassy1
Well my main concern would be if the vacinations are still good? In me-and those who already recieved them, that is.:o I know for a fact that I recieved a small pox vacination the last year they were made available to small children here. I can't see the scar now, but I do remember having a slight one when I was younger. So my concern would be--is it any good?? :( I know that we recieve Hep-B shots and sometimes after exposure our titers test negative and we have to start the series over (:mad: not fun!!) However, no one has ever discussed if those who recieved small pox vacines can have their titers tested for that. I think it would bring some peace of mind to those who could facillitate a calmer reaction if something were to occur here. Okay--what do you think? Am I being a scaredy-cat?:p

That is an EXCELLENT question. I am not sure if there are any clinical studies that would definitively answer the question. But remember, any vaccine is probably better than no vaccine. When you think of the significant population that has recieved no vaccine, there will be a huge amount of people vulnerable of there is an outbreak.

[pete892]

If you have been vacinated, do you want to volunteer to be infected with smallpox to see if the vacine still works? Thought not.

That's why there have not been any clinical tests.

Having said that, many experts think the those who were vacinated in the past may have at least partial protection. That is probably only about half the population which leaves a lot of "young" people with no protection and the likelyhood that we could have panic in the event of an outbreak.

The secret is good planning. Don't wait till it hits the fan to develope comprehensive plans for dealing with this as well as other possibilities. Then test the plan by way of drills and revise as necessary. It is really no different than the "what if" you had a fire on the east wing of the nursing home, just a little more complex.

Stay safe,

Pete

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Originally posted by pete892
If you have been vacinated, do you want to volunteer to be infected with smallpox to see if the vacine still works? Thought not.

That's why there have not been any clinical tests.

Having said that, many experts think the those who were vacinated in the past may have at least partial protection. That is probably only about half the population which leaves a lot of "young" people with no protection and the likelyhood that we could have panic in the event of an outbreak.

The secret is good planning. Don't wait till it hits the fan to develope comprehensive plans for dealing with this as well as other possibilities. Then test the plan by way of drills and revise as necessary. It is really no different than the "what if" you had a fire on the east wing of the nursing home, just a little more complex.

Stay safe,

Pete

Of course I wasn't talking about clinical studies in the sense that people would be infected with smnallpox. There are methods to determine if a person has a titre to resist a certain illness without infecting them. It would be perfectly reasonable to wonder if that type of study had been conducted.

In fact, there is a concern that chldren who recieve a chickenpox vaccine may not retain a titre for their whole life. That means they would be vulnerable to getting the varicella virus as an adult, which can be fatal.

Back in the good old days, parents would expose their children to chicken pox as early as possible so they could get it and get it over with. Most people who are directly exposed to chicken pox do not get it again.

And no, I am not advocating exposing children to smallpox. I am demonstrating the usefulness of titre studies.

[pete892]

I agree George. I can remember as a school board member saying "Why don't we just expose everyone a once to chicken pox?" Probably not a good idea.

I think this whole idea needs much more research and it should be done now.