Class A Foam On Aerials

[nfdbob]

In the process of bidding a new aerial and the Chief feels we need to put CLASS A Foam on the aerial. Members of the Committee designgin the truck feel it is a wast of space and money to have it installed on the truck. the question to all is this........

Does anyone know of any aerial manufactures who ar einstalling Class A Foam on their trucks as standard equipment or is it as we feel a waste of money and space?

[pwc606]

Do you really need more than 2 1/2 gallons of water on a truck? Doing more with less is not always the answer. The more complex you make a vehicle the more training it takes to operate said vehicle and the greater the possibility that one of the systems could fail. I am not saying that the idea is wrong by any means. If your department feels that they should have an arial device with water that is great. But also consider what your mission with this vehicle is going to be. Is it going to be chasing an ambulance and racking up miles or will it be a speciality piece and not run out the door twenty times a day on the EMS calls.

Matt

[BC79er]

Considering PWC was probably the No vote, I'll say Yes, but with an * on it, which I think is what PWC was getting at also.

It depends on what the aerial is going to be used for. If it's going to have a pump, i.e. be a quint, put the foam on it. That's under the assumption that you're putting the pump on it because it potentially is going to be the first out piece and your primary attack truck. If so, put CAFS on it, it will make the water last longer and put out the fire faster. I've seen a ton of people putting foam on quints lately, and many more going to CAFS just for that reason. No, it's not standard equipment on any truck I've seen, but I think everyone has it as an option.

It does lead to more systems that could fail, but it also means that it gives you more tools to help succeed. All first out pieces need foam.

- Brian

[asst102]

We purchased a Pierce Quint with Cafs in 2001. The truck has worked great for us. This truck has a 2000 gpm pump 470 gal. water and 30 Gal. class A foam. As PWC said there is more training to be done on how to operate but you need to train with all new equiptment. The first call this truck was on was a 2 story old farm house with three rooms fully involved on the first floor and 1 on the second and we used lee than 500 gal. of water. We use our quint as the first out on all structure calls. I also agree with BC that if you go foam and can afford cafs do it.

[hwoods]

Putting Class A Foam on your Ladder will make the rungs slippery and hard to climb. :D :D :D OK, sorry, I couldn't pass that up. If you are spec'ing a LADDER TRUCK, then skip the Foam. Also skip the Pump, Hose, Tank, and all the other goodies that go with pumping water thru a hose to put out a Fire. Use your Engines for that purpose. Ladder Trucks, or whatever term you use, Should carry Ladders, as in a 100 Ft. Stick, 40/45 ft. Pole Ladder, Couple of 3 section 35 Footers, a Couple of 2 section 24 ft, and at least 2 14 to 20 ft. roof ladders. An earlier version of the NFPA standard referenced 209 feet of ground ladders. We carry close to that today, along with 4 Fans, Lotta Irons and Hooks, Salvage Gear, BIG Generator, Lights, (8 500/750w) Cord reels, Rope (at least 600 feet) SCBA for every seat, with spare bottles. And the list goes on. It's a Ladder Truck, it carries the tools and crew to do Truck Work.

[BC79er]

That would be great in the ideal world, but the problem is manpower. Most departments can't put two trucks on the street quickly enough to make it all happen the way the IFSTA manual says it should. When I was up north a drove a strict truck company. The 45' ladder only came off for parades because it was too big and heavy to use, plus that's what the main is for. We must have pulled up to at least two dozen fires over my 7 years there as the first unit with an engine 3-4 minutes behind us. It may not have been the smartest thing to do but we used our 3 PWs and 20lb dry chem to try and do something since waiting for an engine is tough to explain to the homeowner. It would have been much better to have had a quint and just put it out in a more safe manner. Plus with a pump on it you don't have to worry about having enough a 2nd engine to pump the master stream. It can catch it's own hydrant.

I can see where Harvey is coming from though. Just don't get stuck treating it like an engine when pulling up like to many people do. Park it like a truck company every time, on a corner, where the truck is supposed to go. Send the quint crew in as engine company, let the next due unit take the truck work. If the quint goes 2nd due, it's a truck company. You can still cram tons of tools on it even if it does have a pump.

[CaptainGonzo]

I believe the brother who initiated the thread is from the lovely island of Nantucket. "Mutual aid" to Nantucket is a 30 mile ferry ride from Hyannis or from Martha's Vineyard depending on weather conditions! :eek:

How is Chief Pierce doing?

[Weruj1]

I did not vote ..........get what YOUR DEPARMENT needs to work .......
I have very little experience with foam of any nature but I understand it works very well.

[ElChup175]

If it is a quint...CAFS, think of it as this, its another tool in your bag. You owe it to your "customers" to give them the best you can afford, so give them a truck with CAFS. If your buying a straight ladder truck, a foam induction system would be a nice additive, even if you don't use it all the time.

[mcaldwell]

I agree that you have got to consider your department and communities needs.

We have just ordered an ALF 65' Telesquirt, and it has been spec'd with foam. In addition to our large buildings where we require the ladder, we have a 4 pad aerodrome here for heli-skiing, and we wanted the ability to apply some ARFF foam from a distance or elevation. The truck's foam system has been spec'd for that purpose.

If you don't see yourself needing it, spend the money elsewhere.

[Dalmatian90]

Our Ladder has a foam system, and it certainly helps maximize the capabilities of the 300 gallon tank.

We generally don't use our Ladder as the primary piece for fire attack (although it has happened several times in my time). We will use it as a "manifold" sometimes when it ends up in the best place and let the attack pumper pump through it to feed several handlines.

At any rate, we have a "small" Class A foam system...honestly can't remember the specs (been working 14 hour days parking cars at the Fair in town...our big fundraiser...for the last three days...22 hours left to pizza & beer time... :D ).

Anyway, it's sized & calibrated to feed handline flows, not master stream. The Class A system we have can be sized to be accurate at handline flows or master stream, not both.

BUT <-- Big Big But...

We can flow Class A through the Ladder Pipe @ master stream rates (say for a final wet down to let it soak in before we pick up a couple thousand feet of 5"...and I'm not exagerating that) by doing the following:

Pull 1.75" Mattydale
Set Foam system to 3%
Connect Mattydale to auxiliary pump suction (via 1.5" to 2.5" adapter)
Gate the Mattydale back to about 100gpm.
100gpm @ 3% sent through the pump makes 1000gpm @ 0.3% out the ladder pipe.

Before we got this truck even we've done the same thing with our old Ladder and another department's Tower on a fire we were mutual aid too -- our ET would pump 100gpm @ 3% to their auxiliary to augment their supply line from another pumper.

It will not eliminate hydraulic overhaul, it will not eliminate using Excavators. But it can help that final wet down of the debris before going home.

When you're in a rural area were your ladder pipes are fed by tanker shuttles or long, long LDH lays that you want to get picked up to get the troops home and the road re-opened, stuff that can save time/reduce water becomes more important.

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by hwoods
Putting Class A Foam on your Ladder will make the rungs slippery and hard to climb. :D :D :D OK, sorry, I couldn't pass that up. If you are spec'ing a LADDER TRUCK, then skip the Foam. Also skip the Pump, Hose, Tank, and all the other goodies that go with pumping water thru a hose to put out a Fire. Use your Engines for that purpose. Ladder Trucks, or whatever term you use, Should carry Ladders, as in a 100 Ft. Stick, 40/45 ft. Pole Ladder, Couple of 3 section 35 Footers, a Couple of 2 section 24 ft, and at least 2 14 to 20 ft. roof ladders. An earlier version of the NFPA standard referenced 209 feet of ground ladders. We carry close to that today, along with 4 Fans, Lotta Irons and Hooks, Salvage Gear, BIG Generator, Lights, (8 500/750w) Cord reels, Rope (at least 600 feet) SCBA for every seat, with spare bottles. And the list goes on. It's a Ladder Truck, it carries the tools and crew to do Truck Work.

Here we go again. Excuse me sir but I think, err, never mind:D

Our 2002 aerial has 30 galoons of class "B" and 20 gallons of class "A". No CAFFS, just an inline 125gpm eductor piped to a preconnect.

It also has plenty of ground ladders and other "truck" equipment. AND 500 gallons of water;)

Dave

PS: 40-45' pole ladder? If we need to reach more than 35', we use the aerial. That's why we bought it:p

[Resq14]

Originally posted by Dave1983
PS: 40-45' pole ladder? If we need to reach more than 35', we use the aerial. That's why we bought it:p

If you can get the aerial where you need it... many departments still have a need for these.

[Dave1983]

Originally posted by Resq14


If you can get the aerial where you need it... many departments still have a need for these.

I know, but after the whole "trucks dont need water" thing I couldnt stop myself:D

Dave