Aussie FF's battle tire fire

[Engine76]

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=34543&sectionId=45

Look at the bottom picture. Notice there are no hose loads up on top. I've heard that many departments have each person pull a section with storz connections once they arrive on scene. Can anyone back that up?

[DrParasite]

if the hose isn't stored up top, then where is all the host stored?

[oldman21220]

Rolled, in the compartments.

[DrParasite]

they have several hundred feet of 3 inch, several hundred feet of 4/5 inch, a couple hundred feet of 2 1/2 inch, several hundred feet of 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 inch, all stored inside compartments? the small hose i can see, but the LDH too? :eek:

[EFD840]

Rolled, in the compartments.

Close, but not quite. Here's a pumper from down under...

You can see all the types of appliances they use by checking out the CFA Brigades on the net page. (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~cfabrig/page2.html) Some of the links are bad, but it is still well worth a look.

[SteveDude]

Notice there are no hose loads up on top.

LOL welcome to the rest of the World.:D

Most of the Commonwealth Countries follow the British method of Firefighting & Equipment...Europe and Russia are also pretty much the same. The middle East & Asia is dependent on whether the major influence is UK/European or American.

It's only really the USA & Canada that fight fires & equip vehicles differently.

UK Lockers (http://www.poplarfirestation.com/lockers.html)

As you can see London Machines have 10 70ft lengths of 2.5in and 4 70ft lengths of 1.75in divided either side as well as 200ft each side of 1 inch High pressure hose flowing about 38 GPM @500psi from a 300 gal tank. Typical of an inner city Pumper.

An County Pumper (or Water tender) will have more 2.75 inch hose and a 500gal tank.

The connections are what are known as 'Instantaneous' they literally just push together and lock with spring loaded lugs. Vey quick, very effective...another valuable lesson of the Blitz in WW2 when almost evey city in the UK was blazing and Fire Engines with different connections were being sent everywhere.

With this hose you can connect every single length in the UK together and probably lay a line around the World. ;)

[SteveDude]

As for the LDH... we use Hose Laying Lorries. The UK is a little like the North East of the US...mainly urban with tons of big cities. We are normally only a short distance from a Hydrant.

Hose Laying Lorries carry about a mile of 3 to 5 inch that they lay in singe (5") or twin (3") lines. They can lay hose at about 15mph.

They are mainly used on large incidents (multi alarm jobs) where water is pumped from a larger water main. London has a large job (8 pumps/50+Firefighters) about once every week on average. Trouble is our water mains in this very old city are not what they should be...so the local main outside a blazing warehouse/school/church may not have the power to supply 6 handlines and a couple of aerials, so we lay up to a major road where they tend to have big mains.

Hope this helps with the hose debate that I seem to have turned into a 'water' debate!!!:rolleyes:

[lutan1]

The picture that EFD840 put up is just one example of our Pumpers. (In fact it appears quite small! Not sure what make/model it is)

The hose carry trays in the back is typical where hose is flaked. (The biggest diameter I've flaked is 90mm- what a bitch!!:mad: )

Here's a few other links-
CFA Vehicles (http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/equip/trucks.htm)

MFB Vehicles (http://www.mfb.org.au/default.asp?casid=31)

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by SteveDude
we use Hose Laying Lorries.

He He He......... That just sounds naughty........:D ;)

[SteveDude]

:D

[SteveDude]

Jeez Lutan...Those Combination ladders on the MFB Vehicles...They look like our old Escape ladders???

London last used Escapes in 1984, I think the last Operational Wheeled Escape was taken out of service in the UK in 1992.

What a fantastic ladder...the 'hero' of twentieth Century Fire rescues, along with the hook ladder.

Here are some pictures of our old Pump Escapes (http://www.poplarfirestation.com/oldpumps.html)

My Brother-In-Law is flying as wee speak to Melbourne where he is going to live for a year. I'll have to gethin to get a better picture of one of those.

[Engine76]

Thanks for explaining that to me. It's always interesting to learn how folks do things elsewhere! ;)

[stillPSFB]

Originally posted by DrParasite
they have several hundred feet of 3 inch, several hundred feet of 4/5 inch, a couple hundred feet of 2 1/2 inch, several hundred feet of 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 inch, all stored inside compartments? the small hose i can see, but the LDH too? :eek:
Not quite - down here most pumpers don't carry hose bigger than 2 1/2 inch - if we need more water then we add more lines into the pumper. I've had 4 lines of 2.5 supplying the pump a few times - usually when relaying water pumper to pumper over long distances or supplying aerial master streams.

[stillPSFB]

Originally posted by lutan1
The picture that EFD840 put up is just one example of our Pumpers. (In fact it appears quite small! Not sure what make/model it is)

That's a CFA pumper from the late 70's early 80's - it has a rear-mounted 750 US GPM Thompson pump on it. Will carry six firefighters but it's a squeeze.

[stillPSFB]

Originally posted by SteveDude
Jeez Lutan...Those Combination ladders on the MFB Vehicles...They look like our old Escape ladders???

London last used Escapes in 1984, I think the last Operational Wheeled Escape was taken out of service in the UK in 1992.

What a fantastic ladder...the 'hero' of twentieth Century Fire rescues, along with the hook ladder.
Yep still in service down here in the inner city. Will probably be for quite some time to come.

[stillPSFB]

Down Under most hose is in 100ft lengths (too long in my opinion), and is usually carried flaked into trays like in the picture earlier in the thread, or rolled on the bight. The rolls are starting to be replaced in some areas though by flat-packed hose (similar to the way FDNY pack their high rise hose). Seems a few people have discovered that bowling out a 100' roll of hose requires 50 feet of clear space in a straight line somewhere:) I once saw a firefighter bowl a length out under a burning tractor/trailer rig in a crowded loading dock because he couldn't see anywhere else to bowl it. A few others discovered that trying to bowl a 100ft roll up a stairwell to commence standpipe operations at a highrise fire doesn't work either:D

[mcaldwell]

Wow, the 5" die hards are probably wondering how you ever put a fire out.;)

Some nice looking rigs on those links. I do like the little Land Rover Quick Attack. Those in the land of Hummers and F-550's might call it cute.:D

[Dave1105]

That's a CFA pumper from the late 70's early 80's - it has a rear-mounted 750 US GPM Thompson pump on it. Will carry six firefighters but it's a squeeze.Being specific, it's a CFA Type 3 Medium Pumper on Hino Cab-Chasis.... and some were actually still manufactured into the late 80's. These guys are still in service (There is one sitting at my station right now.... :P)... but are slowly being phased out.


The rolls are starting to be replaced in some areas though by flat-packed hose (similar to the way FDNY pack their high rise hose).
stillPSFB, I take it your not talking CFA vehicles here, because in fact they are going the total opposite... Have you had a look at the new 3 and 4 medium pumpers currently rolling out of skilled? They have hardly any hose-lay space at all.... instead the large rear lay lockers are reduced by 3/4, in favour of an extra, decent sized locker, on each side of the vehicle. I'll see if I can get some pictures.....

Seems a few people have discovered that bowling out a 100' roll of hose requires 50 feet of clear space in a straight line somewhereYeah, but the argument also goes the other way.... you don't end up with a spaghetti mess at the feet of the pump operator, because you only need 15 meters of hose, yet you've had to pull out an entre lay of 30..... If the hose was on the bight, at least its out and neatly placed well away from where it's going to get into trouble. I've rarely found that you don't have enough space to bowl a length of hose.... Just bowl your lengths along the side of your appliance, from the pump towards the cabin.... your truck has had to get there somewhere, there will be enough room.

Jeez Lutan...Those Combination ladders on the MFB Vehicles...They look like our old Escape ladders??? As Still pointed out, these babys are still in service.... used to have 3, one at FS1, 35 and 38, but Com 38 has since been decommissioned... They are mainly kept for older areas of melbourne and south yarra with narrow laneways... that an MFB platform or ladder platform couldn't setup in. They will actually get quite a few operational uses a year too..... And like anything, yes there is probably a 2004 alternative that could do the job, but as everyone knows, the fire service is about tradition... and if it aint broke, don't fix it!

[Dave1105]

Found some links.... here is a side-view of a new-style, type 3 medium.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nwfb/pages/new_pumper.html

As you can see, there is a full length locker at the rear of the appliance, above the two outlets. This locker means there is no space in the rear for hose-lay lockers.

It's more evident when you compare it to a late 90's style Type 3,
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nwfb/pages/pumper.html

Obviously these two pictures are taken from opposite sides, but it remains the same on either side of the vehicle.

Also of note on the new vehicle, checkout the narrow locker, located between the cab and the body of the vehicle... a new addition that contains a pull out frame with webbing... And also the narrow white conduit that runs along the top of the vehicle is in fact flurecsant lighting tubes that run accross both sides of the vehicle and the rear to light up the workspace around the vehicle at night.... nifty eh?

[Dave1105]

Found a picture of the type 4.... and you can see the rear, kind of...

http://www.skilledequipment.com.au/pump_res.php?pumperid=2110

The only hose lay available on these appliances (And it's the same on the 3), is that small, fold up locker right at the bottom on each side.

[lutan1]

And also the narrow white conduit that runs along the top of the vehicle is in fact flurecsant lighting tubes that run accross both sides of the vehicle and the rear to light up the workspace around the vehicle at night.... nifty eh?

From an outsider, it's always amazed me how you guys like to work in the dark...:( Light 'em up like daylight I say!

[stillPSFB]

Originally posted by Dave1105
stillPSFB, I take it your not talking CFA vehicles here, because in fact they are going the total opposite... Have you had a look at the new 3 and 4 medium pumpers currently rolling out of skilled? They have hardly any hose-lay space at all.... instead the large rear lay lockers are reduced by 3/4, in favour of an extra, decent sized locker, on each side of the vehicle. I'll see if I can get some pictures.....
Oops - should have explained myself better - instead of putting loose/spare lengths of hose in a side locker in rolls, they are flaking it into packs of one length each.

Yeah, but the argument also goes the other way.... you don't end up with a spaghetti mess at the feet of the pump operator, because you only need 15 meters of hose, yet you've had to pull out an entre lay of 30..... [/B]
If you hook one end to a discharge and then walk towards the fire with the hose coming off your shoulder as you walk then you end up with the extra hose where you need it - close to the fire flaked out ready to be advanced as necessary.

[stillPSFB]

Originally posted by Dave1105
stillPSFB, I take it your not talking CFA vehicles here, because in fact they are going the total opposite... Have you had a look at the new 3 and 4 medium pumpers currently rolling out of skilled? They have hardly any hose-lay space at all.... instead the large rear lay lockers are reduced by 3/4, in favour of an extra, decent sized locker, on each side of the vehicle. I'll see if I can get some pictures.....
...and just when we thought they were finally making pumpers that were designed for firefighters to actually use:( :rolleyes:

[lutan1]

...and just when we thought they were finally making pumpers that were designed for firefighters to actually use

From an OHS perspective on the new trucks from Skilled, it's good to see that the lockers are more accessible without having to over reach and climb to get stuff out of the top shelf.

Can they hold as much as the older styles?

[Dave1105]

If you hook one end to a discharge and then walk towards the fire with the hose coming off your shoulder as you walk then you end up with the extra hose where you need it - close to the fire flaked out ready to be advanced as necessary.Maybe i'm just stuck in my ways..... but I totally disagree with using flaked hose for attack lines... as every time I've seen it done, it creates a mess for the pumpy to sort out..... If you've got a decent lengthed reel, i'd rather use that.... if not, bowled hose is the way to go. I can setup a 3 - 4 length attack line off the bight quicker then I can pull 3 - 4 lengths off a lay.... and it's a lot neater to boot.

From an OHS perspective on the new trucks from Skilled, it's good to see that the lockers are more accessible without having to over reach and climb to get stuff out of the top shelf.

Can they hold as much as the older styles?They definately can.... A neighbouring brigade just recieved a brand new Type 3(And yes, we are VERY dirty about it :P.... Oh well, our brand new F-250 spanker mobile will have to soothe our egos i guess... :P) and I'll see if I can snap some pictures of their lockers....