TNT Tools

[Firefighter430]

Any pros or cons on TNT tools? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thinking about a combo tool but may get 2 tools (spreader and cutter) and power unit. Looks like a good tool and good service from dealer.

[FFTrainer]

2 comments....

1. We have them... cutters, spreaders, mini-cutter, airbags, etc and love them.

2. check the Univ. of Extrication forum and do a search. This has been discussed b4

[BFD1581]

Stay with the simple tools, or as we say "Keep it simple stupid"

Our TNT Tool is in the storage room were it belongs. Way to short and heavy for any pratical use.

[FFTrainer]

BFD - keep it simple and read the post... although posted in the wrong area, the poster was referring to TNT extrication tools

Thinking about a combo tool but may get 2 tools (spreader and cutter) and power unit.

not the sledge, axe, hook, etc combination tool that beats the pi$$ out of your wrist when you hit something and get the hook portion jambed into you - that item can stay in the store room like you suggested.

[Weruj1]

the fun continues................. :(

[Resq14]

Originally posted by FFTrainer
that beats the pi$$ out of your wrist when you hit something and get the hook portion jambed into you - that item can stay in the store room like you suggested.

Definetly agree on that one. Those suck, I don't know why people like them. Same experience here.

[firenresq77]

I wondered who would be the first to post about the hand tool.........

[gunnyv]

I used the TNT tools during a demo and my crew tore 2 vans down to the frames. They were brand new tools, never used, we had no problems or breakage, despite abusing them a bit-at the request of the demonstator. I have always used Hurst through my career dept and the reserve ARFF unit, but I was impressed by the TNT tools. Had a chance to play with Amkus and Holmatro before, didn't care for them at all.

Agreed on the TNT hand tool-hated it!

[stretch13]

Well the topic DOES say TNT tools lol. Myself and LT use them on just about every fire we make. We have three different sizes, the medium one is just about right to do everything, from pulling ceiling to forcing entry. I love them.

[Rescue101]

Not thread related but I like the TNT tool,hand version.I can take one tool and breach my way out of almost anything.I also like the TNT rescue tools.But then again I'm pretty fond of anything that makes my life easier.T.C.

[sklump]

TNTs are excellant tools, buy a spreader, cutter with a simu pump. Then get a combi tool.

[CALFFBOU]

I used to think Hurst was the ticket, but grab a set of
Holomatro and youre sold. Very strong and light weight.

My FD has Hurst and they seem to leak most of the time.

[efd281]

We used the TNT Tools here and have been nothing short of impressed with their performance. They are alot lighter than the Hurst tools and run at a higher PSI. Lighter and stronger, hmmm, sounds like a no brainer.

[cowboymarine1]

At my former volunteer department, where I was Assistant Chief, I was tasked with finding the "best all-around" rescue tools. We had dealer demos from Hurst, TNT, Champion, Holmatro, and Phoenix. After a day in the local auto salvage yard with a couple of my firefighters, our top choice was Champion, with TNT coming in a close second place. Depending on the model, TNT tools are much lighter or about the same as far as weight is concerned. There smaller version of the spreader packs the same punch, with half the weight of your normal run of the mill Hurst spreader. It made for a much quicker door pop, just because of the manueverability of the lightweight tool. My opinion of combination tools is not one that you would want to hear if you are restricted to buying only a combi-tool. They are underpowered pieces of **** that will quit on you when you need them the most. You'll have to be very creative at times to accomplish your mission. We did test combi-tools on our "junkyard adventure," and if my budget restricted me to buying one, I would highly recommend that you look into Phoenix Rescue. Their combi-tool is a spreader with a scissor-like cutter in the middle that runs the entire length. Worked extremely well when cutting wide "C" posts during roof removals. If you are able to buy the seperate tools, I would highly recommend that you look into Champion Rescue tools. They have a lifetime free replacement warranty for as long as your department owns the tool. We ended up buying the Champion tools at my former department. I sheared a pin off that holds the cutting blade onto the tool at 4pm on a Friday afternoon. My new tool was personally delivered to me at 7pm... the same day, no questions asked. I believe in a company that stands behind their product that way.

[Yankee750]

My department has a TNT 28" spreader and a CC-20 Cutter with a simo pump. It works great and we have never had a problem. We tried out Hurst, Amkus and the TNT and the choice by the members was near unanimous for the TNT. If price is a concern, talk to your local dealer about possibly buying a used demo set. That's what we did. It came with a new set of blades on the cutter and the same warranty as a new unit. We got the cutter, spreader, simo pump and two 20' lengths of hose for under $10K. That was about 3 years ago.

[Riv3404]

My department has Spreader, Cutter, and two sizes of rams made by TNT. These tools are over 10 years old, but still pack a punch. Like most have said they are heavy and that is my only concern (well we are still using the non-mineral based oil as well and that concerns me). We also have two Banam pumps and one Simo pump. The system works well but the weight is my only complaint.

[chief20rvfc]

we purchased a complete set of TNT tools about a year before hurst tools came out with high pressure tools. We decided from the beginning that we were going to buy high pressure tools. once you use high pressure after using low pressure you will never go back to low pressure again. we looked at every brand that you can imagine. Our dept. has the luxury of having the insurance institute for highway safety in our 1st due so getting new model year cars that are wrecked to cut on is no problem. tnt is not the lightest but is not the heaviest either. they use mineral oil and operate at 10,500 psi. they will come annually to service the tools and inspect them ( no charge ) any problems with the tools and they will be there usually the same day with a replacement until yours is repaired. We use our tools alot and love them. the only problem we have ever had is with the motor on the pump and that was our problem, they were there the same day with a replacement. Simply put a great tool with great service.

[MG3610]

I was a die hard Hurst guy..now I wouldnt go back. We have them where I came from and where I work now. One big piece of advice is don't buy a combi tool unless you absoloutely have no space for a cutter and spreader (or dont have the budget). The two tools will give you much greater capabilities. A combi-tool is nothing more than an average of a cutter and spreader combined, it doesnt do either task well. Also, go with the bigger cutter, the thing is unstoppable!

[Daniel4880]

Any pros or cons on TNT tools? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thinking about a combo tool but may get 2 tools (spreader and cutter) and power unit. Looks like a good tool and good service from dealer.


Since you're from Virginia, I assume you are going to get your tools from Blue Ridge Rescue Suppliers. We bought a bunch of TNT hydraulic equipment (4 rams, 2 spreaders, an O-cutter and a combi tool) for our new heavy rescue, choosing them mostly because we were told BRRS would provide very quick service. We did not find this to be the case. When the system started leaking fluid, we got bounced between Singer (our Pierce dealer) and BRRS, each saying it was the others's problem. It all worked out eventually, but I didn't think we were quite served as well as we could have been.

[MurphysFireKC]

One advantage TNT has is their 2nd stage pump doesn't kick in until around 4500 psi. The 1st stage is where most of your cutting power and speed comes from. Most everyone else's pumps go to 2nd stage around 2000 psi.

For 25 years I used Hurst then Amkus...............I wouldn't have anything other than TNT now.

[MurphysFireKC]

Oh and TNT is one of only two tools that is compliant with the new NFPA standards for hydraulic rescue tools.

[Rescue101]

Really? Color me dubious. T.C.

[JHR1985]

Mostly, we use Hurst. We recently bought Hulmatro and its light. I used TNT in fire academy. I really dont care what brand. Hurst is heavy. Hulmatro is lighter. We also carry... Centuri... I believe that is the right name, a brand bought out by Hurst. Lot lighter and smaller.....but so much faster. As long as it works... I'm happy. But.... TNT does make a good tool.

[chief20rvfc]

Since you're from Virginia, I assume you are going to get your tools from Blue Ridge Rescue Suppliers. We bought a bunch of TNT hydraulic equipment (4 rams, 2 spreaders, an O-cutter and a combi tool) for our new heavy rescue, choosing them mostly because we were told BRRS would provide very quick service. We did not find this to be the case. When the system started leaking fluid, we got bounced between Singer (our Pierce dealer) and BRRS, each saying it was the others's problem. It all worked out eventually, but I didn't think we were quite served as well as we could have been.
Totally disagree about blue resque! any time we have had a problem, Jamey the owner himself almost always is at our station the same day. Sorry you had a bad experience but thats not how blue ridge treats us at all.

[GFD615]

We used the TNT Tools here and have been nothing short of impressed with their performance. They are alot lighter than the Hurst tools and run at a higher PSI. Lighter and stronger, hmmm, sounds like a no brainer.

No Brainer indeed! Everyone knows...it's not all PSI that generates strength at the end of the tool. Consider, piston size, length of blades, or length of arms, linkage location, blade design, etc. I found that higher PSI also means higher failure rate, due to over-stress. Shorter life span, due to over-stress. Pump wear and tear, due to over-stress. Irregardles of pressures, high or low pressure, always make your purchase as an investment, not an expense. Buy quality, not price.

[SPFDRum]

I found that higher PSI also means higher failure rate, due to over-stress. Shorter life span, due to over-stress. Pump wear and tear, due to over-stress.

OK I'll bite, where did you obtain that information and where can I look it up to verify?
I've been using high pressure extrication tools for the better part of 12 years and haven't seen any such thing. Though I have seen the increased ease of use, especially in confined spaces with the smaller, light hp tools. Not to mention a decrease in firefighter fatigue.

[batcapt]

First of all I encourage you to look at several brands of tools. Set up a demo using your own criteria not a dealers smoke and mirrors.

My department uses Genesis tools. We started out with Hurst, changed to Holmatro and now use Genesis. We have been very pleased. Currently we run 12 full sets (cutter, spreader, rams, and simo) and about 8 combi sets. Absolutely no problems. Additionally Genesis tools have been the tool of the International extrication champions 4 of the last 5 years.

All Genesis rescue hydraulics are NFPA compliant....very strong, very lightweight.

Batcapt

[Lieutenant387]

BATCAPT, would you kindly divulge what TESTING AGENCY Genesis used? No where on their website do they use the UL logo that everyone else uses to CONFIRM that it is third party tested. It is ALL a play of words like their "BORON CAPABLE" tool. No where in the Video does it show them cutting a side impact bar that is Boron, and to use the wording "CAPABLE" that would make anyone question things.

[ecfr1978]

We have both the 10,500 PSI and the 5,500 PSI systems at the station I work at, hands down the best tools. Talking with the local TNT dealer they are getting ready to produce a new lightweight set of tools, everything is under 36 lbs (bantam pump, spreaders, cutter, rams etc.) We tried out the new SLC-27 cutters, very impressed. Since we've tried them out the factory rep says that they are redoing something to the cutters to improve them. Of course he couldn't/wouldn't tell us what it is.

[kramelop]

:) Thanks to the Afg grant we are looking at extrication tools here in Clinton Maine as well. Being in the back corner of the states...name brands have always reigned supreme... everyone around us has Hurst and many of our multi department volunteers are biased toward hurst.

The chief is only allotting time/expense for 3 demos and I arranged TNT for the 3rd. Holmatro and Amkus are the other two. You would have thought I shot someones dog. I figure that being so familiar with hurst, would make three others an easy comparison.

By the way, all the "knowledgable, but biased" readers should check out this link. Your extrication system might not fair as well as you think. Homeland security commisioned Texas A&M to conduct a study of Hydraulic rescue tool systems. The evaluation part of the study was done by career firefighters from various parts of the US. The big name wasnt the big winner.

http://saver.tamu.edu/documents.php?c=3&s=2&fl=321&pn=4

Anyway, I'm not biased, I just stumbled on this link and this forum while doing research of my own. I'll let you know how it goes up here after our demos.

Mark

[kramelop]

Had demos of hurst, amkus, holmatro, and tnt. Lets just say that neither the amkus equipment nor the local rep were impressive... rank them dead last. I was impressed by hurst (particularly the demo) and tnt and would only rank one (hurst) over the other by virtue of availability, versatility, and durability. As far as performance, they both seemed equivalent. However, the holmatro gear with the new core technology was the hands down winner for us.

Started with a great demo. The tools were so balanced and easy to handle that they felt lighter then the others, even though they were all on par weight-wise. Add to this that the core hoses straighten very easily and can be hot swapped while in use. And because of the core technology, the equipment can be deployed and used, utilising less manpower and effort. Add in some bells and whistles. Finish this off with a great rep and the right price for the package we requested, and you can see why we settled on the Holmatro gear.:)

[DonSmithnotTMD]

They are alot lighter than the Hurst tools and run at a higher PSI. Lighter and stronger, hmmm, sounds like a no brainer.

I got a dumb question. Does more PSI necessarily mean more usable strength? The example I'm thinking of would be an engine - 50,000 horsepower with no way to effectively transfer it to the street would be useless.

[oaattx934]

Higher psi allows them to run a smaller piston. For example, if you tool say ran at 5 psi and had a 5 sq. inch piston you would get 25 lbs of force theoretically, whereas if you were running a tool at 10 psi and wanted the same force you could get away with a 2.5 sq. inch piston. Smaller piston equals less metal and weight. Higher pressure on smaller components can lead to wear and tear. We have had problems with the seals going out on our TNT tools, but they do work well. I have personnally rolled a dash with a TNT combi tool using some cribbing, not an ideal situation but it did work and that was on a full size pickup.

[MEAN15]

One advantage TNT has is their 2nd stage pump doesn't kick in until around 4500 psi. The 1st stage is where most of your cutting power and speed comes from. Most everyone else's pumps go to 2nd stage around 2000 psi.

For 25 years I used Hurst then Amkus...............I wouldn't have anything other than TNT now.

Actually, the first stage is where you get your speed - when the 2nd stage kicks in you get your power. First stage = lower pressures and higher flows, 2nd stage = pressure climbs while flow drops.