Firehouse Thefts

[OrbDog]

My department just recently voted to spend an initial $2500 on a video surveillance system for our firehouse. This was in response to a long rash of thefts of items ranging from screwdrivers to sabotaging SCBA packs to computer software. This is a frustrating position to be in, considering we are an all volunteer department and our members should WANT to be there.

Anyhow, I was wondering what security measures other departments may have taken to prevent thefts?

Thanx....

[MalteseMonster]

Naw, anyways are you sure its coming from within the dept. Maybe want to look into previous members, council members, Etc. Other than that if you have the money to shell out, the camera is you'r best bet..:cool:

[Jeff16]

I too think it could be someone from the outside, except for the screwdrivers. That's very common in firehouses. A fireman could have forgotten to return it or could have misplaced it after working on something. I'd say the punk sabotaging SCBA packs needs to be caught and punished.

[emtbff927]

Anyhow, I was wondering what security measures other departments may have taken to prevent thefts?

We haven't had theft issues, but we have had problems with people not in the dept. wandering into and about the station without anyone realizing they came in. We put coded locks on the doors (only members know the code) and doorbells for non-members/public to use. This idea might help if your dept is concerned about outsiders getting in.

[Weruj1]

Do a little searching as this was discuused somewhere here recently. Maybe Cellblock may recall what thread it was. We at one time were going to add something simillar a while ago when we had some narcotics come up missing from the squads. And instead the person who was doing it eventually got in trouble from their primary employer and after that we havent had an issue.

[firenresq77]

We did have some issues in the past with someone stealing a scanner, some pay checks, and a few other things, but he was caught pretty easily when he cashed the checks. Haven't had any problems since then.....

[Scratchy635]

We have had a major theft problem... But it wasnt necesarly from our department....
We have an apartment onto our station that one of batalian chiefs lives in and his truck tool box got broke into.. They stole a set of his personel gear a drill a tool box... Plus a few other odds and ins. We have been thinking about cameras for awhile but mostly on hte outside...
Also we just had a problem with some moron putting hte heat up to 90 degrees at our new station... So we added a security system... Every person on the department has there own code and that code is logged with every use... also with someone who was having sex in the cab of our telasquirt.. which in of itself is bad enough but they left there condoms there... which just yea infuriates me to even think about it (especialy since they were found while on a run)

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by Scratchy635
someone who was having sex in the cab of our telasquirt.. which in of itself is bad enough but they left there condoms there... which just yea infuriates me to even think about it (especialy since they were found while on a run)

NIIIIIIIICCE

[Scratchy635]

exactly
id love to hang whoever did it from the hose tower

[ffexpCP]

Just imagine a little kid finding them during a station tour! :eek:

[firenresq77]

Someone's been watching Backdraft too much!!!

[lmrchief2]

We used to have gas stolen out of the cans off the truck. What a pain when you go to fill the generator up with gas-oops the can is empty. We had someone quit the department and problem solved. Imagine that! We could not prove it though.

We just moved into our new station in January and I got a phone call sometime in June that the station had been broke into. Mind you we are a volunteer department so there is not someone there all the time.

They made a mess of the station anything that was locked they broke into, using OUR PRYBAR off the rescue. In fact that was the only thing we found that they stole. It must have worked good for them and they thought they could use it elsewhere.

I'm sure they were looking for all the money we had stashed in the station:D

All we have done is try to keep people around the station more. Those of us that work swing shift will stop in on our way home from work or on our way in. Everyone is starting to do it so you can not really make a pattern out of when someone will be there. Not that you could before, but now there are more frequent visitors at the station.

[firedawg803]

Have same problem, so we changed locks in case someone had a key that didn't need one. Didn't help. Not so much that things are missing, as they are re-arranged. Moving tools from pumper to tanker, etc. We can not stress enough to these guys that when you take tools off of a classA pumper, it is no longer a class A pumper. So we posted a log in sheet, to be signed by everyone upon entering the station, for any reason, and sign out when leaving. This rule does not apply to them as you can imagine. We are now to the point of also installing a camera system. Main example of equipment moving, that happens on a regular basis, is moving foam-eductor to tanker. We get to an oil fire, and have to wait a while for another engine, or wait for tanker. If response is slow that could be dangerous. But it is pretty darn sorry that someone would do something that low, to the dept. they are a member of. Chap's my rear to no end.

[Cellblock776]

Do a little searching as this was discuused somewhere here recently. Maybe Cellblock may recall what thread it was.
You are correct. I started a simular thread over in the Volunteer Forum a few weeks back. The cams still haven't been installed but should come soon. To view the original thread follow the URL below.
http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/showthread.php?threadid=56081

Here's hoping it solves your theft problems.

[OrbDog]

Thanx for all the input!

Cellblock, I saw your earlier thread and there's some good information there too. When you get your cameras installed, please let us know how you like them, any pitfalls you found, if they worked....you know, a 50-page thesis should be sufficient! :D

Just to remark on some earlier replies regarding a perp from the outside...we didn't strongly consider that as we have a security patrol within our community that's pretty diligent on checking the doors and all, and there's somebody at the station off-and-on throughout the day. But if so, the cameras should get them too.

Hey Scratchy & emfbff...do you find that the individual key codes work? In theory, limiting access to the building to code-holders would work, but there's issues. Such as piggy-backing (when more than one person enters with someone else), do you have to enter code to EXIT the building too?

I think the bottom line with all of this is that we all need to frequently monitor and account for our equipment. All the security gadgets won't help unless we know when to use them......and we won't know when to use them unless we know something is missing.

It's sad, but let's still have fun out there....

[CaptOldTimer]

He is probably mad because he didn't think about having sex in da cab.

This may be the normal thing for the volunteer department to have something to do between calls. In a busy paid department, you would have time for that stuff. Your hide parts would be fired if you did.

Besides I like what I have a home far better than I could ever get in a firehouse!!!!!!


Stay Safe & Well Guys............

[pfd3501]

You might be able to be reimbursed for the camera through some of the Homeland Security money. It can be trick, I think they deal with the county level EMAs, but I know there is money for security for firehouses, water plants, etc. It would be worth checking into.

[ff7134]

We have cameras at the doors of the station, and several in the bays. All of this is recorded in the Chiefs office. We are a combination department so its no that big of a deal but the Chief usually uses it to see whose on station in case he needs to talk to you. Nothing like the Chief over the intercomm saying he want you in his office and noone seen him leave:eek: . We use ours mainly for if the crews are out of the house and something happens.

[nmfire]

We have code locks on the doors into the building and on the doors into the bay. Everyone has their own individual code. We can assign codes to the cops, boy scouts, cleaning people, contractors, etc so we can keep track of things. We don't have a theft problem, but it makes it real nice when you pull up at 3am, it is 5 bellow zero, and you forgot the key.

You will probably not be allowed to have code lock on exit. I would venture a guess that fire code disallows that. The system we have has the code punch and a handle outside and a crashbar on the inside.

[Scratchy635]

Originally posted by OrbDog

Hey Scratchy & emfbff...do you find that the individual key codes work? In theory, limiting access to the building to code-holders would work, but there's issues. Such as piggy-backing (when more than one person enters with someone else), do you have to enter code to EXIT the building too?

I think the bottom line with all of this is that we all need to frequently monitor and account for our equipment. All the security gadgets won't help unless we know when to use them......and we won't know when to use them unless we know something is missing.

It's sad, but let's still have fun out there....

Yea you have to enter your code when you enter and exit in order to set the alarm... or turn it off if you are the first one there... But, if someones there and ya go in and do something surely that other person well say something to ya if no other reason to keep out of trouble. So far it has worked considering we have been doing alot of construction on the new station and no tools have gotten "misplaced"


Good luck getting rid of ya problem

NMFIRE those code locks are the handiest thing in the world... MY aunt used to lock herself out of her house on a daily occasion, they were the only thing that we could use to remedy it..

[cheesy]

We have razor wire round a few of stations in London and auto bay doors, still dont keep the little tea leafs out of the station though, weve caught people in our station before!:mad:

[Cellblock776]

One of our biggest problems is that the bay doors are almost always open. During the day we have one paid man on duty and the Chief requires that as long as he is at the station the doors remain up on both bays. Kind of a 'we're open for business' thing. So if you are inside someone can pull up and wander around the bays and you never know that they are in there. Anyone driving by that wants to stop and ask directions or conduct business is naturally drawn to those big open bay doors instead of the little red door with the welcome mat in front of it. By entering through the bays they get to weave through the trashcans, extra equiptment stacked along the wall, etc and then enter through the door that leads into the bunkroom/radio desk room. If they would enter through the front door they would come directly into our meeting and office area instead. So we have unescorted visitors walking through the truck bays on a regular basis.
Next is the problem of leaveing the station and not getting the doors rolled down. Common problem at all 3 of our stations. The pagers go off and the paid guy jumps in the first out truck and pulls out to the road and hits the buttton on the garage door remote. He pulls out and looks back at the bays and the doors haven come down. TOO LATE NOW. Volunteers enroute to the call swing into the parking lot and find the doors open for them already. LOL. Sometimes nobody stops by and closes the doors and they stay up until the calls ends and the truck returns to the station. This all happens on a major 2 lane highway just outside of Baton Rouge and LSU. Go Tigers. Anyway, since the doors are open and the station is unmanned you can imagine the possibilities of someone pulling up to the station, walking in, roaming around the Chiefs office and leaving with the computer, the TV, VCR, microwave and whatever else they want.
Well, maybe the cameras we are installing to catch people giving oral sex on the couch will also catch anyone who wanders in off the street to shop while we are gone.
Stay Safe,

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

You guys have to look at the bigger, 21st century picture.

What is the dollar value of the equipment sitting in your firehouse? For most of you, the replacement cost could easily exceed one million dollars. If you were a private corporation, they would normally put forth considerable effort to secure and protect those assets. Yet, some in the fire service, like to stick their heads in the sand and rely on the fact that FF are nice people and that no one would screw with a firehouse.

That nonsensical attitude reflects a major flaw in the approach to the protetion of fire department assets.

If some pimple headed, 18 year old crack addict can get into your building, how in the hell are you going to stop a professional terrorist from entering your building and completely disabling you or the equipment. And here's a newsflash...THE DAYS OF LEAVING THE BAY DOORS OPEN ARE OVER! Your firehouse is a critical infrastructure site. It deserves to be protected as such. Don't believe me, check out the document being put forth by USFA promoting exactrly the same thing.

On another note; renmember cameras are OK, but you cannot record or monitor the audio. That is a violation of federal wiretap statutues and you can get in some serious civil and criminal trouble.

[cheesy]

Can you not get auto closers? our doors are on a timer and close automatically after 2 mins!

[pfd3501]

Originally posted by cheesy
We have razor wire round a few of stations in London and auto bay doors, still dont keep the little tea leafs out of the station though, weve caught people in our station before!:mad:

I find that hard to believe. I thought that after they took all your guns away, that crime in England has been nil. :D

[pfd3501]

We keep our station locked up whenever it is not manned. Most of us check all the doors. If someone from the State Pharmacy Board drops by, finds an open door, and we're not home, there is hell to pay.

You'll always have some common hand tools walk off from the maintenance bay, but someone vandalizing Firefighters gear is cause for a hangin, I say!!! (as long as they don't steal our rope:D)

[protomkv]

[QUOTE]I find that hard to believe. I thought that after they took all your guns away, that crime in England has been nil.

But they only took them away from the honest people, the villains are still "shootered up"and armed robbery and shootings have increased drastically. I'm glad I am now in the USA, my .357 magnum makes me feel a little more secure

[Cellblock776]

That nonsensical attitude reflects a major flaw in the approach to the protetion of fire department assets. THE DAYS OF LEAVING THE BAY DOORS OPEN ARE OVER! Your firehouse is a critical infrastructure site. It deserves to be protected as such. Don't believe me, check out the document being put forth by USFA promoting exactrly the same thing.
George,
I beleive you and can not possibly agree with you more. But getting things changed around here are next to impossible. We aren't some backwoods VFD. We serve a community with over 7,000 residents with our combo FD. It's a mix of residential and industrial with most residents either working at the local chemical plants, prisons or in nearby Baton Rouge and LSU. We are very aware of the possible threats to our area yet the FDs around here all have the 'open door' policy because we want to appear to be the same old open service as it was in the past.
My two biggest gripes with leaving the bays open is that having unescorted citizens trapsing through the vehicle/equiptment bays CAN'T be a good idea with all of the injury lawsuits going around these days. And then since EVERYONE enters through the bay the first door they open is the one coming into the bunkroom where I may be crashed out after a long night of calls. Talk about first impressions. "Snore, snort...groan, who? Wha...? Hey, close the damn door, I'm trying to sleep." "Oh, sorry. I was looking for the Chief." "Groan, then try going through the front door. Now get out. (Fart)"

[protomkv]

Hey Cheesy, What station are you at?

[Cellblock776]

THE DAYS OF LEAVING THE BAY DOORS OPEN ARE OVER!
How about this one. I'm working a shift at the station and I grab the pager and portable radio and close all the bay doors. I need to walk acroos the parking lot to the Hardware store to get some line for the weedeater or something or I have to walk over to the Sheriffs substation, which shares our parking lot, to pick up some mail that was accidently delivered to them. Whatever. I'm gone anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes but never more than 50 yards away. When I walk back to the station I find the bays doors wide open. Now I know I left them closed. HHHuuuummmm....
I have an errand to run at the City Hall and I take the department service truck (aka Rescue) so that I can roll to any calls that come in while I'm away from the station. I leave the station locked up and return sometime later to find the bay doors open again. HHHuuummmm....
I see the Chief later that day and mention the bay doors beeing open each time I return to the station. "Oh, I did that." See, the Chief has a door remote on the sun viser of his pick up truck. He is driving by the station at about 55MPH when he sees the doors rolled down when I'm supposed to be at work. He know that I like to keep the doors closed when I'm working but that's not what he wants so as he drives past he hits the button and opens the doors without even slowing down. Now, once he did admit to seeing the service truck missing from the bay but he had already passed and wasn't going to make a Uturn to close the doors even though the station was unmanned.
HHHuuummmmm.....
So even if I try to keep the place locked up the Chief doesn't have a problem with it being left wide open. Hey, you know what? It's his department. More power to him.
Peace.

[Scratchy635]

Thats just crazy..
Didnt wanna pull a U TURN.... I guess he would of rather had all the equipment stole or some lunatic jump into the trucks and just go driving? 20 bucks if something had of happend you would of got blamed for it... I would of been EXTREMLY ticked... But i guess ya chief is ya chief...

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From the USFA Website:
A new document that provides a comprehensive guide for all fire and emergency services is now available. Prepared by the Emergency Management and Response-Information Sharing and Analysis Center (EMR-ISAC) to promote critical infrastructure protection, the Fire and Emergency Services Preparedness Guide for the Homeland Security Advisory System offers suggestions for activities that may be appropriate for the five Homeland Security Advisory System (HSAS) Levels.

Within this guide, the emergency response leadership will find recommended preparedness measures for each HSAS Threat Condition. Therefore, the contents of the document should assist the heads of the fire and emergency medical services with the development and implementation of appropriate department or agency-specific preparedness measures.

¡§The preparedness actions recommended are not all inclusive, nor do they reflect all the variations in local conditions, agencies, and operations,¡? according to the U.S. Fire Administrator R. David Paulison. ¡§These guidelines do, however, provide a good place to start the development or enhancement of organizational plans. Agencies need to balance the cost versus benefit of various proposed measures to determine the most cost effective ones.¡?

A complete copy of the guide can be seen and downloaded from the following link: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/fire-service/cipc/cipc-jobaid.shtm.

[cheesy]

Yep pfd5301 your only allowed to carry guns if your gonna do crime in england! :D protomkv, im stationed at foresthill, a 3 aplliance station.

[pfd3501]

Originally posted by protomkv
[QUOTE]I find that hard to believe. I thought that after they took all your guns away, that crime in England has been nil.

But they only took them away from the honest people, the villains are still "shootered up"and armed robbery and shootings have increased drastically. I'm glad I am now in the USA, my .357 magnum makes me feel a little more secure

Sometimes over the web, one does not pick up the tongue in cheek aspect. I'm well aware that crime, especially violent crime has skyrocketed in the land of the scones.

[pfd3501]

Originally posted by cheesy
Yep pfd5301 your only allowed to carry guns if your gonna do crime in england! :D protomkv, im stationed at foresthill, a 3 aplliance station.

3 Appliances? Washer, Drier, Microwave? :D

[protomkv]

Hi Cheesy, My Cousin was Sub O at Forest Hill before he retired in 1981. I served mainly in the C Div, and also at B26 Old Kent Road. Now Im Living in the USA.
Hey PFD, I knew you were tongue in cheek, but there are lots of guys that dont know the difference between the US and UK terminology. for the unenlightened, Apparatus here, is an aplliance over there. it took me a while to get to know the differences, if anyone is interested I would be happy to detail some of the major differences.

[cheesy]

Yes gun crime is more civilised here in the land of the scones, we challenge each other to a duel by slapping the other fellow round the face with your glove, and then its pistols at 10 paces!

Tea anyone? :D

[lmrchief2]

George they moved the link that you had posted. I would be interested in seeing the document. What5 name is it under or did I miss that in your post.

Thanks for the info ahead of time

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Fire and Emergency Services Preparedness Guide for the Homeland Security Advisory System