lifesaving defibrillators in schools

[E40FDNYL35]

January 8, 2004 -- A year after the city was required to have lifesaving defibrillators in schools, more than 1,500 of the devices are collecting dust in a warehouse, waiting for officials to finish training staff to use them.
Currently, only high schools have the devices.
The Education Department hasn't begun training staff at middle and elementary schools. But officials hope to do it by the end of the school year. "I think it's a crime they have them sitting in a warehouse," said Rachel Moyer, whose son died of heart failure while participating in school sports in 2000. The devices are so simple that advocates say a child can use them.
If used improperly, they can't do any harm. A state law, passed two years ago, requires all public schools to have the devices. But the state regulations are tough, requiring seven hours of training to operate the simple device, along with a sheaf of paperwork, said Kathleen Grimm, deputy schools chancellor. As a result, the city can't recognize teachers who already have defibrillator training, which is now part of CPR courses. But the holdup isn't all about logistics. The city and teachers have been bickering about how much to pay school staff for attending the half-day training sessions.

[Stick533]

But the state regulations are tough, requiring seven hours of training to operate the simple device, along with a sheaf of paperwork, said Kathleen Grimm, deputy schools chancellor.
WOW! I couldn't possibly fathom the thought of training for seven whole hours!:rolleyes:
But the holdup isn't all about logistics. The city and teachers have been bickering about how much to pay school staff for attending the half-day training sessions.
Just how much should a person be paid for the "inconvience" of being trained to potentially save a child's life? It's kind of ironic in a way.... a student doesn't get paid to learn from a teacher, but a teacher refuses to learn if not getting paid.
One question, What city is it? If it was mine, you can bet my @ss would be at the next parent/teacher conference.

[cozmosis]

Originally posted by Stick533
WOW! I couldn't possibly fathom the thought of training for seven whole hours!

Seriously... why seven hours of training? I imagine some legislator somewhere came up with that figure. It's a friggin' AED. These teachers have degrees. They should be able to handle it... Turn it on & do what the voice tells you to do. Even if they are learning CPR, the classes (with AED training included) that my FD presents rarely last more than four hours.

Originally posted by Stick533
Just how much should a person be paid for the "inconvience" of being trained to potentially save a child's life? It's kind of ironic in a way.... a student doesn't get paid to learn from a teacher, but a teacher refuses to learn if not getting paid.

Well, teaching is what these folks do for a living. If the school is going to require them to come in and get extra training of any kind, they should have to compensate them for their time.

As for your irony, I don't see it. I know quite a few teachers. As it is, their hours and responsibilities are growing without any extra compensation. Many teachers are learning all the time -- with workshops and continuing education classes -- and aren't getting paid extra.

With all of this said, however, I think that every school should have an AED and that every teacher should be CPR certified.

[Stick533]

I wasn't refering to teachers not getting paid at all for their attendance, I was refering to the "...bickering about how much..." they should be paid. Pay them the same as any other function they attend outside of school hours.
Many teachers are learning all the time -- with workshops and continuing education classes -- and aren't getting paid extra.
I'm not denying this statement; I'm just saying that even if it comes down to volunteering a half-day of training for life saving interventions, it would be well worth the time if it ever had to be used.

[Stealth83]

I am a avid supporter of Public Access AED's. This is a good step in the right direction regardless of the red tape one must go through inorder to get there.

[neiowa]

Originally posted by cozmosis

Seriously... why seven hours of training? I imagine some legislator somewhere came up with that figure. It's a friggin' AED. These teachers have degrees. They should be able to handle it... Turn it on & do what the voice tells you to do. Even if they are learning CPR, the classes (with AED training included) that my FD presents rarely last more than four hours.


Yes; NY city teachers with their militant public employee union and work practices, hords of ambulance chasing lawyers, etc. likely how it was decided that 7 hours of instruction was needed. Takes about an hour out here in flyover country.

[Bones42]

It was actually a couple of teachers that pushed for my schools to get the AED's and provide the training for the teachers. Teachers received no extra pay for learning them, it was on a voluntary basis. About 60% of the staff has now been trained.

AED's in public places is a great idea.

[kghemtp]

Living in the atmosphere of educators for most of my life, I can appreciate what I hear of workshop days that preach NEW concepts on how to reach kids when teachers have found what works in 30 years of doing this. I don't dispute the validity of new ideas, but veteran teachers often gripe about it and could certainly benefit from this relatively "new" concept of public access AED's. Heck, if a half day was dedicated to AED use & then free reign for any other time, I would expect educators across the board would go willingly. Something to look into!

[Moose2028]

before they were in the schools in our distric one of our explorers amindistered cpr on one of the teachers. durring class one teacher just fell down, nobody knew why. so they came on the pa system and said if any one knows cpr come to the room. our explorer was one of the first ones there and kept it up untill our fd could get there. the teacher ended up living.


but as far as i know we have two of tem in our school, we have about 1500 kids in our school. luckly we havent had to use them yet.

[FFTrainer]

I just don't get it??? My wife works a school under a teachers union contract and they get cpr/aed training at the start of each school year. It's usually the tuesday after labor day. Since a teachers contract runs Sept. 1 to June 30 they bring the staff in a day or 2 before the kids to go through admin stuff such as CPR, meet new staff members, set up your classroom, etc. In other words be ready for the kids when they walk through the door. They call them in-service days and since they are on a week that is already shortened by the labor day holiday, there is no risk of causing the staff to exceed their contract weekly work hours.

It absolutely amazes me (and my wife and I have this argument all the time) the bickering and "not without paying me" attitude of our children's educators. Now I know contracts vary from place to place, but my wife's contract is as follows. From 9/1-6/30 you will work X number of days for a total of X hours a week and in return you will receive X dollars divided into x number of equal paychecks during that period. Hello, that it what is known as a SALARY. Now if you are talking about hourly folks or putting these folks over the contracted work week number of hours than I might see it. But then again, I don't. The compensation SHOULD be that in the back of your mind you know that you have the ability to save someone's child in an emergency. The same thing you would want YOUR kids teacher to have.

[flathead]

I don't know what the "fuss" is about. The school's in our area all have "staff development days" where the teaching and non-teaching employees come in for the day to learn new concepts,innovations,ect. These are scheduled,paid days in their contract.I've done workshops in the past at these and when the PAD's were implimented, it was a session the personnel could sign up for and many of them did.I believe that there are 35-40 in our school district who took the training.

The problem we had was that the "public" part was overlooked. The units were locked in the nurses offices after school hours and in the coaches office by the gym. They were easily accessable only between 7:30am and 3:00pm, the hours least likely to be needed.The administration was worried that kids would screw around with them.

It has since been pointed out that when the schools are having gatherings with multi-aged crowds is a more likely scenario for their use. They are now looking into purchasing wall mounted cabinets to put them in more readily available locations.

[FFTrainer]

flathead... if you have any input or way to contact these folks, let them know that there is a wall mounted box with an alarm. It has the option to transmit to a security desk or let out this hideous whistle or both.

My former employer uses them. Their justification was two-fold

1. For the tampering/vandalism situation
2. It was one more way of notifying someone else of an emergency if say the person dropped in right in front of you in the break room and rather than take the extra time to find a phone, just open the case and security would be notified that the AED is being used, summon further help (i.e. call 911)

[flathead]

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about the boxes with alarms but I'll certainly look into those. I'm meeting with the athletic director at school this week and I'll will bring those up. You wouldn't happen to know what company makes them would you?

[backdraft663]

My school has them, I dont think they ever been used but there, for the time when they might be needed.

[Lewiston2Capt]

Flathead,
try this link.

www.emergencycaretraining.com/AEDS.htm

I know some businesses around here have the cabinets wired directly into the alarm system so that when the cabinet is opened without the key 911 is automatically dialed. It may be something you check into with a security system company.

[sklump]

In Chippewa Falls WI, high school girls basketball coach colapsed during a game and was brought back by AED. Why would you worry about being paid to learn to save a life.

[HM604OH]

Here is a great article on an AED save that appeared in the Wooster (Ohio) Daily Record this January 12,2004:

APPLE CREEK - It’s been more than a year since Amber Yoder’s heart gave out, leaving her unconscious on the ground in front of her school. The experience has taught her not to take life for granted and has motivated her to help others.

Around 11:30 a.m. Dec. 6, 2002, Amber, then a junior, and friends were walking back to Central Christian School after singing Christmas carols in downtown Kidron. While on that walk she suffered cardiac arrest and collapsed.

Amber’s teacher, Tim Shue, directed students Andrew Dutcher and Jon Moore to call for help and bring back the school’s newly acquired automatic external defibrillator, which was made possible by the Beaverson Foundation.

Central Christian staffer Bruce Kooker, along with Kathy Schmid, a nurse who stopped to help, used the AED to shock Amber’s heart and administered CPR.

The Kidron Fire Department EMS crew arrived shortly thereafter and transported Amber to Dunlap Memorial Hospital before she was transferred to Aultman Hospital in Canton.

Rob Yoder, Amber’s father, remembers her daughter being given a shot at the hospital that kept her unconscious. When her eyes opened around 2 p.m. the following day - more than 27 hours later, Rob Yoder broke out into tears.

“It was a tremendous emotional experience,” Rob Yoder said. “You go through it not knowing if your daughter is going to survive or not.”

Amber Yoder and her brother, Chad, suffer from a genetic heart condition known as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which means their hearts are abnormally thick. Chad explained professional and Olympic athletes develop thicker hearts because of extensive workouts, but his heart and his sister’s are even thicker than athletes.

HCM is a relatively uncommon heart disease, according to the Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy Association’s Web site. While the exact numbers are unknown, it is estimated as many as 300,000 people in the United States have HCM.

Amber’s condition was detected by accident. She suffered a concussion while playing on the eighth-grade girls basketball team at Central Christian. After the concussion, Amber began experiencing headaches. While being treated for the headaches, doctors performed an EKG test and discovered Amber had an irregular heart.

Doctors told Amber she had the heart of a 60-year-old, she said.

“I didn’t really believe it,” she said.

Her heart is 50 percent thicker than the average heart. She and her brother received internal cardio defibrillators, and Amber also had a pacemaker implanted. With the devices, the two are expected to live normal lives.

The athletic Amber was forced to quit playing basketball, softball and volleyball, and it angered her.

“Why would God give me these talents, and then take them away?” she asked.

Today, that anger is gone. While athletics are no longer a part of her life, she has developed new talents in singing and music.

Rob Yoder said he has been able to see God’s purpose being worked out through the ordeal. Because of the tragedy, he and his family have drawn closer.

“I have learned to appreciate my children, and I know they are a gift from God,” he said. “Whatever time I have with them, I appreciate.”

Cindy Yoder said that she is grateful that her daughter is still alive. Like her husband, she believes God had his hand in how the whole thing turned out.

When people ask Chad how he deals with his condition, he reminds them of a Bible verse. In Jeremiah 29:11 it says, “‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord, ‘plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.’”

“Amber is alive for a reason,” Chad said.

The experiences from a year ago have given Amber a new outlook. She is more cautious in her approach to life and is more grateful for life.

“Most teens don’t worry about the next day because they think it is guaranteed, but it is not,” she said.

No longer does she keep her thoughts to herself. Amber said she is quick to tell others how she feels.

“Who knows if today is the last day or if you’ll ever see that person again,” Amber said.

Because of her experience from a year ago, Amber said she wants to help others. She and her family are working to raise the awareness about the importance of having AEDs in public places, like schools, churches, businesses, airports and sporting events.

In October, Rob Yoder and Amber traveled to Washington, D.C., for the National Center for Early Defibrillation Survivor Summit. They met 41 other people whose lives were saved using AEDs, and Amber became one of the founding members of the NCED Survivor Network.

Amber said it was nice to connect with others who went through a similar experience. Like her, the other survivors told stories based on what others told them.

Amber has no recollection of what happened to her on Dec. 6, 2002. There is a two-week gap in her life, which runs about a week prior to and a week after her collapse, that she cannot remember.

As she prepares to graduate this year from Central Christian, she said she is leaning toward becoming a cardiac technician.

Because of her cardiac arrest, Amber said she will be in a good position to talk to others and help them out.

Reporter Bobby Warren can be reached at (330) 287-1638 or e-mail bwarren@the-daily-record.com.

[CrossBro1]

While this is a little off topic, I think it is a positive step. The school system in my city requires that all high school students take and pass a basic CPR course inorder to graduate. We had a high school student go into cardiac arrest and die a few years back, and since then AED have been provided in the city high schools.

[kghemtp]

Cross, that's a great policy to implement, as it's part of social preparedness. Yes, I know you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink, and this is no different. It's one more tool that kids leave school with the choice to use.