Lancaster Ma. LODD- We Must Educate In Fireground Survival

[fdny99]

As I sit and write this, we have lost another brother firefighter from injuries sustained in the line of duty. I was sent an article written by Peter Lamb, Director of the Mass Fire Academy, which made a lot of sense. I left a paid NE CT fire dept. 4.5 years ago for the FDNY. As I grew up in this area, I have many times gone back to share what I have learned in my short time in the city (I have had the opportunity to learn from some seasoned FDNY vets). In his article Peter lamb talks about the need to train our members in fireground survival, not just RIT. This can not be more true, for if you don't know how to survive getting jammbed up, then RIT becomes a very risky recovery effort, not a rescue effort. I recently had the chance to give a lecture on this subject at a NE CT volunteer department. The response and feedback was interesting, although I didn't really understand it until I read Peter's article. He is so right when he says that more focus needs to be paid to ff survival. I would appreciate any and all comment on this subject.

[Dalmatian90]

Pete Lamb's article was spot-on.

It's the basics we need to know down pat. Things like teaching self-bails and RIT should only come after you have the basics drilled in and re-drilled in. That's where practice is important.

Sizing up fires is something you largely gain from experience IMHO. I've had the opportunity on rare occassion to just "sit" for a moment in a burning building. I say rare 'cause you're usually got a job to do or are with a partner. But sometimes just listening to the fire and feeling the heat, it's hard to describe but you learn a lot about it's behavior. Then you come down from the stairs and let the Chief know he best get vent the 2nd floor and get a line up there...

Some basic size-up has to come from training -- and my best in a training building was from an FDNY Captain -- our crew kneeling in the basement of Hartford's burn house as he explained roll-over and we worked it back.

During those evolutions, we saw roll-over (in a basement no less). And when we had to go to the attic, my crew was last to rotate up there after an entire day of evolutions building up more and more heat in the burn building, that was the hottest I've ever felt -- the air in the mask was getting not warm but *hot* to breath. Gave me a new appreciation for the amount of heat you can take.

Funny thing is -- we didn't destroy any gear doing it.

I really have a big problem with the State's flashover simulator, fires hot enough to destroy gear isn't realistic training IMHO. Eastern Connecticut has had several close calls over the years, one of which was several new guys from one department were put a couple floors above the fire room "to get used to heat" -- fire was so damn hot it destroyed new PBI turnouts they had been issued -- they guys where OK thanks to the bunker gear, but being new they didn't know it was "too" hot until an instructor went back upstairs and realized they were baking. What are we teaching people with training fires a lot hotter than you should normally encounter? Seems to me we're teaching them not to recognize when things are getting abnormally hot.

Same time we teach people in too-hot-to-be-realistic (unless you're in deep ****) conditions, I worry "new" stuff like self-baling and RIT are taught at the expense of time to practice the basics. How to advance a hoseline, use a nozzle, and vent a building.

Many already complain other stuff, like EMS and Haz-Mat and Tech Rescue already take time away from fire training. Further divide up your fire training to take on new skills leaves even less time for the basic skills.

I'm not against the idea of RIT. But it's an addition. It's an addition to normal "reserve" forces you should be getting on the scene of a structure fire -- the crew to advance the next hoseline you need, the crew to raise the next ladder. It's also an addition to your training, you don't reduce nozzle & venting practice to learn RIT.

I guess it's similiar to how I feel about "IMS" -- IMS is an addition to regular command & leadership training. If you don't have competent fireground leaders, you can have all the pretty vests and fancy titles and the scene will still be a chinese fire drill. You need to develop officers who can size-up, issue orders, and maintain discipline. If you do that first, fires will go well on their own and IMS will help intergrate you up with anyone else who becomes involved.

Matt

[Adze39]

Perhaps you should move this to the Firefighters Forum. This could be an excellent discussion and shouldn't limit it to the few who read inside the CT forums.