Telemarketers extinct? Oh the joy!!!!

[superchef]

From the New York Times, September 22, 2003, the one joy that a Monday can bring, (besides the t-shirt I got in the mail.:D )


PHOENIX, Sept. 16 - The largest telemarketers are
desperately searching for a Plan B, now that Plan A -
stopping the federal government from establishing a
national do-not-call registry - has failed.

As they gathered here for their annual convention, those
who sell mortgage services, credit cards and corrugated
roofing over the phone say that if they do not change the
way they do business immediately, they may follow
door-to-door salesmen into commercial extinction.

Unless the courts intervene, their crisis begins on Oct. 1,
the day the do-not-call registry takes effect. From that
day forward, telephone solicitors who call the 48 million
phone numbers that Americans have voluntarily placed on the
list so far will risk fines of up to $11,000 a violation.

[MalahatTwo7]

Other than that fact that I know some people are going to loose jobs because of this, I am jumping for Joy (or Mary or Jane depending on who is available ;)).

I can't stand telemarketers, even though I know that they are "only doing their job"; sorry folks I guess its time to find a new line of work.

[mcaldwell]

Oh Man I hope this gets done in Canada as well. The day it is introduced we'll declare a National holiday. Well call that day "Independance Day", the day we are finally freed from the tyranny of telemarketers! (You Yanks won't mind if we borrow your name eh? ;) )


I got one of those "change your long distance service" calls at MIDNIGHT one day last week. Where the hell were they calling from, Japan?? :confused:

[DaSharkie]

I signed up the first day it was available. I get sick of my phone starting to ring at 8:30 or 9:00 every morning.

I remember reading a story last week about how Dave Barry wrote an article in Florida about how much of a pain telemarketers were so he got ahold of the phone number of one company. He printed the number in the article and asked teh readers to call it to let the company know how they feel about them.

Apparently several thousand people called the company adn they had to shut down their phone lines or something. They are now considering legal action against Mr. Barry. So you want to sue someone for doing the same thing that you do as a business, have I got that right?

So they can get fined up to $11,000 per call huh? I think if they do call and are found guilty of violating the law, that they should pay that $11,000 fine to the person whom they called. I don't know about you but an extra $11,000 in my pocket would help out tremendously. I can do a lot more good with it than the federal government can. How about you guys?

[RspctFrmCalgary]

cool I hope they do that in Canada too! Can ya get rid of the dammmmmmm faxes too? :D :D :D :D

Cheffie you sure get lots of T-shirts, lucky duck! *pouts* :(

[ffdfireexplorer]

I heard on the news last night that their are already ways for telemarketers to get around the do not call list.

[Bones42]

It's very easy to get around. They simply buy a post office box in Canada and claim that as their headquarters. They then no longer have to use the US list. They would then be a Canadian company and don't have to change their business at all.

[cfdeng3]

I have an unlisted number and rarely get a telemarketing call. Make sure you never give your number to people in stores that ask for it and if they insist give them a false number or go to another store. The ironic part is I hate receiving telemarketing calls but yet I was a telemarketer in college and that is where I met my wife. She sat next to me, I didn't meet her on the phone.

[NJFFSA16]

Sorry to rain on the parade....

A federal court has blocked the national "do not call" list meant to allow consumers to stop unwanted telephone sales calls. In a ruling filed yesterday, the U.S. District Court in Oklahoma City said the Federal Trade Commission did not have the authority to create the list. The FTC has signed up some 50 million phone numbers for the list, which was due to take effect October 1.

The Full Story (http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/24/technology/ftc_donotcall/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Woe is me....:(

[superchef]

The FTC has signed up some 50 million phone numbers for the list,

Do the politicians realize that is 50 million voters?

Thanks for the update NJ. :(
Although I will still make that birthday dinner for you if you ever head out west. ;)

[MalahatTwo7]

I want to respond to this thread, but my dang phone won't stop ringing... Hold on.. "What's that you say? You want to come wax the stucco on the outside of my house? Sorry but your competition got me last week.... Oh gee that's too bad. You say you are the only company to offer this type of service? Ummm well I dunno. Someone was here just last week..." ...... bbbbzzzzzzzzzz 'click'......

[firemanpat29]

When they call my house I always tell them to hold on
for a sec, put the phone down next to my black lab
and let her sniff, moan,growl and bark at them
Childish?? yes but satisfying just the same

[E40FDNYL35]

They can call me anytime...1 212 479 7990

[Tooanfrom]

Like one of the previous post I am ex-directory, and have been for the last 20 yrs, and do not know of the joys of getting unwanted phone calls, especially if you have been on "nights" and trying to get the valuable kipping time in. My problem is Spam--I have a filter on but it still bugs me. How do you handle this? Or do you just accept it? I came into the computer world at 60 plus, so any advice -nice and simple please.

[firenresq77]

Get one of those hand held air horns with the disposable canisters. When you get a call from one of them, tell them to hang on, then get your horn and give them a nice little blast........


I have also heard that you can download the sound that gets played when you dial a number that is disconnected or has been changed.
After you download it, make it the first thing on your answering machine, then follow with your message. Supposedly all of these computers are programmed to delete the phone number from their list when they get these tones. I haven't tried it yet, but think I will. I have been getting way too many of these calls lately........

[superchef]

Looking for my profile to see where I am.... it keeps getting lost

27, Maybe you could ask the next telemarketer that calls since they always seem to be able to find you. ;)

[superchef]

From the New York Times, Wednesday September 24, 2003

California Is Set to Ban Spam
By SAUL HANSELL


California is trying a deceptively simple approach to the problem of junk e-mail: it is banning spam.

Gov. Gray Davis signed into law last night a bill that outlaws sending most commercial e-mail messages to anyone in the state who has not explicitly requested them. That makes it the most wide-reaching law of any of the 35 other state laws meant to regulate spam — or any of the proposed bills in Congress.

"We are saying that unsolicited e-mail cannot be sent and there are no loopholes," said Kevin Murray, the Democratic state senator from Los Angeles who sponsored the bill.

The law, which also prohibits companies inside the state from sending unsolicited e-mail to anyone outside the state, imposes fines of $1,000 for each message, up to $1 million for each campaign.

Moreover, the proponents of the measure say, it promises to carry greater weight than most such laws because it gives people the right to file private lawsuits, encouraging action by plaintiffs' lawyers even if state prosecutors have other priorities. A similar provision is credited with helping to ensure compliance with the federal law against unsolicited faxes.

Marketers vehemently argue that California's approach is misguided, saying it will do little to restrain the shadowy spammers responsible for most of the objectionable messages often relayed through foreign computers.

"The people sending the latest penis enlargement schemes are not going to pay attention to this," said H. Robert Wientzen, president of the Direct Marketing Association. "This is a group of politicians trying to cash in on a popular issue and will create more confusion and problems than solutions."

The law is similar to one recently enacted in Britain that bans the sending of marketing e-mail to people who do not request it. Most other state laws, and the proposed federal law, allow unsolicited e-mail until the recipient asks to receive no more.

The California law says users must explicitly agree to receive e-mail from each advertiser. That would appear to ban the preferred marketing strategy of many big advertisers: renting lists of people who have agreed to receive e-mail offers, often as part of a sweepstakes entry. "We don't differentiate between Disney and Viagra," Senator Murray said. "If you go out and rent a list of e-mail addresses, by definition you are not a legitimate business. You are the person we are trying to stop."

The law is scheduled to take effect on Jan. 1. But it faces several hurdles. Many of the bills pending in Congress would pre-empt tougher state laws. And it is bound to be challenged on constitutional grounds.

David E. Sorkin, a professor at the John Marshall Law School in Chicago, said that the law would probably survive a claim that it violated the First Amendment, as courts have held that commercial speech deserves lesser protection than private speech. But it could be struck down as an unconstitutional interference with interstate commerce.

"I don't think that states have much business regulating the Internet," he said. "If you can't tell where the recipient of an e-mail is, and still have to comply with different state regulations, it is a burden on interstate commerce."

But if the law survives challenge, it could well have a significant effect on spam. Coming from the nation's most populous state and the home to many large Internet companies, the new law puts a burden on the sender to determine if the recipient resides in California, a technically hard task.

"California represents up to 20 percent of the e-mail that is sent or received," said J. Trevor Hughes, the executive director of the Network Advertising Initiative, a group of technology companies that send e-mail for marketers. "Instead of trying to segregate the California e-mail addresses, many of our members are going to make the California standard the lowest common denominator."

Until now, state laws against spam have largely tried to ban deceptive practices in commercial e-mail, like fake return addresses. Many require that spam be identified with the phrase "ADV" in the subject line. Only Delaware has also banned sending unsolicited e-mail. But that law can be enforced only by the state attorney general, who has not taken any action under the statute.

[DaSharkie]

Can't resist this one:

Gov. Gray Davis signed into law last night a bill that outlaws sending most commercial e-mail messages to anyone in the state who has not explicitly requested them.

Trying to save his job is he? I told you I couldn't resist.

[pwc606]

The only tele-anything that calls me are the ones that want money. How do you get a tee shirt out of the deal?:) I could use the free clothing.:-)


Matt

[Robertsc]

i think you have misunderstood the Do Not Call List has been declared inproper bye a republican court, so we get them back, unless FCC does something.

[superchef]

think you have misunderstood the Do Not Call List has been declared inproper bye a republican court

Yes, I saw that. All those voters the republicans want to make happy so they vote for them again. :D
The excuse that the Direct Marketing Assoication used is that the "do not call list" blocked its members right to free speech. What about my right to be free of those annoying calls?
As for the zoo currently running amok in CA, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

pwc-and here I thought you wanted my cooking. I'll see what I can do about a t-shirt.
;)

[DaSharkie]

My solution was to have caller ID placed on teh line, and then get caller ID block so no anonymous calls come in. I haven't had a telemarketer call in the month since I did it. No complaints out of me.

i think you have misunderstood the Do Not Call List has been declared inproper bye a republican court

So exactly what is a Republican court? I thought we had federal courts, not Democrat or Republican courts.

[MalahatTwo7]

Seems to me like this might be a strong case of "Political suicide" but then who ever heard of a politician doing anything "smart" for the voters?

Cheffie, funny you should suggest that. I have asked a few times of where the office "from which you are calling" was located. Almost everytime its from some "eastern" location and they were not very helpful in telling me where "I was" LOL. Another time I was kinda day dreaming and not paying attention to what the young lady at the other end was trying to sell me and out of the blue I asked her how old she was. I am still not sure who was more shocked, me, my Mom, or the telemarketer, but I will say it ended the conversation real fast. I don't think that particular operator ever called our home again :D.

[NJFFSA16]

YIPPEE!!

It's back!

The Senate approved legislation that would grant authority to the Federal Trade Commission to maintain a do not call registry for telemarketers. The House approved similar action earlier today. A federal judge ruled Wednesday the FTC lacked authority to create the list. The bill now goes to the president and a spokesman said he is expected to sign it, probably on Friday. About 50 million Americans had signed up for the registry, which was to be implemented on October 1.

WOW...did that happen fast:eek: :eek:

[superchef]

YIPPEE!! It's back

:D 50 million happy voters is enough to get those politicians moving pretty fast I see. :D

Thanks for the update NJ. For that good news you get extra dessert!

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Guess again.http://www.msnbc.com/news/971734.asp

[MalahatTwo7]

Mmmm Baird.... Federal Court Judge... Baird..Federal Court Judge... can you see the difference? I can't see the difference. But I can see the similarity: both seem to know how to stall for time.

I will grant a thought here though. The telemarekters are claiming 1st Amendment violations, right? Well that's all great and fine, for one side of the story. Now what about the rest of us? Where do our rights to privacy come into affect concerning unsolicited phone calls. Let me re-phrase this:

If, lets say Jon B was calling to Ed C and generally just being a nuisance, calling at odd hours, maybe not really saying much or being a threat exactly, but just overall a big pain the backside. One of two things will happen, initated by Ed C. 1) he changes his phone number and makes it unlisted. That's great except now he has to tell all his family/friends of the change. 2) he gets a restraining order placed against Jon B. Right?

So in the end no matter what, Jon B is forced to stop calling. I don't know about anyone else, but I generally consider telemarketers as a pain in the backside, and if the government is willing to assist in placing a 'restraining' order against them by enforcing a No Call Registry, then that makes me very happy "Sign Me Up Scotty" LOL. I guess the question I have here is at what point does it become an infringement against the general public to allow a telemarketer to call at strange (read any time) times of the day or night?

On a slightly skewed view point, I also am pleased in a round about way that while I don't agree with the Federal Court Judge and his decision, I can appreciate that he is doing his job. I just wish he could have put his efforts into something a little more worthy, like making sure people like Allen Baird III get what they really deserve.

(For the guys who are or have recently done the FF1 - IFSTA Fire Essentials study books, please read Jon B and Ed C to be Firefighter A and Firefighter B.)

[Bones42]

I'd rather have telemarketers call and hang up on them then to have political parties calling any day. Of course, magically, the political parties are exempt from having to use these lists...so now they have free reign. Imagine that.

[MalahatTwo7]

Bones, you have a point there. Although on this side of the border, I don't seem to recall any politician attempting to reach me at home for "a vote", probably just as well. :D Although the regional MLA and MP seem to think that it's ok to send newsletters out every few months. Trouble with those is they don't even make for good fire starter. :( :rolleyes:

[mcaldwell]

I just saw a story on the CBC evening news that said there was a bill introduced in parliament that would allow the creation of a "Do Not SPAM" list for folks here in Canada. The fine for an unsolicited e-mail would be $500, and sending Porn SPAM to minors would cost the sender $5000.

I have not found a print link yet, but it sounds good so far. :)

[Tooanfrom]

Mcaldwell--maybe you have just hit on a solution! If I were to take a bunch of "Porno" photo's to a school and show them to the youngsters there, surely I am guilty of corrupting minors? Presenting unasked for Porn on the internet is the same thing. Looking forward to more info. So far I seem to be inundated in Spam that extolls the virtues of growing a certain part of my anatomy-if I were to consume all of these pills and assuming they worked as well as the Spammers say, a wheelbarrow would have to be the next purchase to carry it around. My final worry is do the Spammers also sell a pill equally as good to female customers to accomodate the wheelbarrows contents?
Signed-"Concerned"

[RspctFrmCalgary]

I love those ones .... "Sheri, INCREASE YOUR PENIS SIZE NOW!!!!" :D

and ummmmmmmmm tooandfrom?? You seem to have an awful lot of information about the content of emails offering such a service .... hehehe you read all about it instead of just deleting!!! Did you order some pills too? HAHAHA tee hee

:D :D :D :p

[FireLt1951]

As millions of years have proven. When one species becomes extinct. You can bet another will be created.;)

[superchef]

As millions of years have proven. When one species becomes extinct. You can bet another will be created

:D So true!

Tooanfrom-
Dear Concerned,
:D

On a side note, it is interesting to see how hard the politicians are trying to get this passed. The courts rule against the law, the politicans come back with an amended version.It is an interesting study in the political process to see how the courts and Congress are playing this out. This probably has to be the fastest moving piece of legislation currently running it's way through the political process.

If enough people speak, those in power listen. What could 50 million voices do for the Fire Service?

Demand more Fire Grant money? Demand that we place a higher priority on training standards? Demand that there will never be another Bradley Golden, another Anndee Huber? Demand that our Fire Services are given the tools they need to meet the ever increasing demands that are being made on them?

Ok. enough rant for one day. I am off to work on my homework.

[MalahatTwo7]

Originally posted by superchef


What could 50 million voices do for the Fire Service?

Demand more Fire Grant money? Demand that we place a higher priority on training standards? Demand that there will never be another Bradley Golden, another Anndee Huber? Demand that our Fire Services are given the tools they need to meet the ever increasing demands that are being made on them?

If only those 50 million people would take the time to talk to the Guys in the Station, then maybe those voices would be "heard". Unfortunatley those same 50 million voices only cry out when, as an individual, they fall to a calamity. And then it's up to the emergency services to help them out. Of course when something terrible happens, and someone gets hurt or killed because of outdated equipment, improper useage, or something important breaks down, then it's the fault of the individuals or the Station that responded. Most times all that gets "us" is bad press.

Just a thought here, but I wonder what would happen if the White House was lost due to fire, because the responding units were not able to conduct operations due to poor/outdated or failed equipment.

In an odd way it is comforting to know that when that many voices speak out at once, "Stuff Happens" quickly. :D

**That is a retorical question, because I am not trying to "stir the pot" to argue or pick a fight with the Stations that service the DC area. They do a great job. This was purely a hypothetical concept to make food for thought.**

[E40FDNYL35]

September 27, 2003 -- Not even the rich, famous and politically powerful are immune to telemarketers, Mayor Bloomberg(Jerk) revealed yesterday, advising New Yorkers not to be rude to them.
"It is annoying when you're at home and you get in the middle of dinner, somebody calling up and trying to sell something to you," the mayor(Jerk) said when asked on his weekly WABC radio show if he's ever been bothered by telemarketers. Bloomberg's(The Jerks) strategy for handling the unwanted intrusions? "I say, 'I'm just not interested. Thank you very much. Good day.' " He suggested a polite hang-up was in order. "You don't have to be rude, but you don't have to waste your time talking to them." Bloomberg(Jerk) likened the annoyance to e-mail spam.
"You go through your e-mail and there's an awful lot of spam and you can't find the messages that you care about," Bloomberg(Jerk) said.
"Clearly the public does not want - and I don't either - calls during dinner or lots of spam on my e-mail." Aides said the mayor(Jerk) supports the national "do not call" list, which has been stalled by court rulings this week. But yesterday, the largest telemarketing industry group said it wants its members to abide by the "do not call" list in spite of the court decisions. "We are telling our members, yes indeed, we don't want you calling people who have told anyone they don't want any calls," Direct Marketing Association president H. Robert Wientzen said. He said he hasn't had time to arrange agreements making that request binding, but "up to the moment I have had nobody disagree."Nearly 51 million people have signed up on the do not call list. The FTC is still allowing people to sign up for the list at the Web site www.donotcall.gov or by calling (888) 382-1222. However, the latest court ruling means the agency can't penalize telemarketers for violating the registry, said Walter Janowski, a director with research firm Gartner Inc. "This likely precludes a quick fix such as Congress's attempt yesterday," he said. "We can expect multiple appeals potentially as high as the Supreme Court." The House voted 412-8 and the Senate 95-0 for the bill to enact the do-not-call list. President Bush said he looked forward to signing it Monday. "Unwanted telemarketing calls are intrusive, annoying and all too common," he said in a statement. Even after Bush signs the legislation, the FTC must win in court for the list to move forward. The national registry is intended to block an estimated 80 percent of telemarketing calls. The FTC's rules require telemarketers to check the list every three months to see who does not want to be called. Those who call listed people could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation. Consumers would file complaints to an automated phone or online system.
:cool:

[jedson81]

Originally posted by firenresq77
Get one of those hand held air horns with the disposable canisters. When you get a call from one of them, tell them to hang on, then get your horn and give them a nice little blast........


I have also heard that you can download the sound that gets played when you dial a number that is disconnected or has been changed.
After you download it, make it the first thing on your answering machine, then follow with your message. Supposedly all of these computers are programmed to delete the phone number from their list when they get these tones. I haven't tried it yet, but think I will. I have been getting way too many of these calls lately........


don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever do the airhorms please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've had that done to me before!! I couldn't hear for days! I cut the call and lost the name, otherwise we would have sued for assult! Telemarketers have sued and won many times because many have lost their hearing permanently because of that! I know it was probably a joke, but that, whistles, and screaming happens a lot.

The BEST thing you can do is say "remove me from every list your company has, please." And say it polite but firm. At that point they cannot refuse or try to continue the sale, but they have to read off a quick legal thing and leave their phone number. If they try otherwise, stay polite and firm, but say that they're violating the law and they need to add you to the company do not call list right away. If they persist, you're dealing with the very small (but very vocal and memorable) group that's never going to follow the law, and all you can do is get the company name and a contact number, hang up, and report them. Nothing will get an illegitamate telemarketer off the phone faster than asking for their personal/company name and company phone number.

while on my soapbox, just remember that any joke or weird or funny like you can think of, we've heard. yes, even that one. If we've (past tense in my case) been working for more than 15 minutes that day, we've probably heard it a couple times today. yes, even that one. and yes, we will pick on you after you hang up. we even have contests about how many times we can hear a certain joke. Yes, even that one.

[Jay911]

Today on the 911 board I had no less than seven calls from a local call center that was going through area code 944, or something to that effect. Odd, aren't the phone numbers automatically dialed?

One nut even decided that since he couldn't make it to his original caller, he'd try to spiel to me. Me: "Sir, are you serious? You're aware this is the 911 operator you're talking to?"

:rolleyes:

--j.

[NJFFSA16]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The national do-not-call list, hampered by a weeklong legal struggle, went into effect Wednesday, with government officials still predicting a large decline in telemarketing calls to millions of registered phone numbers.

The Story (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/no.call.ap/index.html)

Don't call me, I'll call you.:p

[superchef]

Don't call me, I'll call you :D

Anytime my friend (and you'll even get dinner) Thanks for the update. ;)

[MalahatTwo7]

From NJ's link
Some telemarketers say the legal confusion has their industry in turmoil, with many unsure about which numbers can and can't be called and what actions will result in penalties.

If you aren't sure, then DON'T DO IT - How simple is that?

[NJFFSA16]

Ya know....I'm going to start another thread, with a POLL. A simple one. I'd like to get an idea how many of our members have ever bought something after receiving a telemarketing phone call.

Should be interesting........:rolleyes: Because I just can not believe people actually purchase stuff from these callers!

[superchef]

Because I just can not believe people actually purchase stuff from these callers

Credit Cards for one. One published report on a bank states that they originate 250,000 accounts per year through telemarketing (although they of course, declined to comment on this). Some trivia, if each account has a $2000 balance, then telemarketing brings in roughly $500 million a year in new receivables for a bank. The banks are lining up their lobbyists I am sure. :D