FL80 or 4400

[jboczek]

Since the boyzz from Illinoiss (real or honorary) have answers to everything, who's running a 4 door Freightliner FL80 or a 2003 model IH 4400? I'm looking for goods and bads for both, things like interior room, driving, ride, problems, etc.Gotta have some answers before Tuesday night.
Thanks in advance.

[trainer]

Jack, we have an FL80 4-door, and love it. the only downfall i can see,if you can call it that, is its short turning radius. Sounds funny but the ass end cuts short like a tractor trailer. once your use to it,it's great, turns shorter then my chevy P/U. Not bad for 36 ft.

[F18Wub]

I think our FL80 turns like the Titanic. Thats been the only problem I have seen with it. We had trouble recently with the AMPS generator, but I think that was an AMPS problem, not a vehicle problem.

[jaybird210]

I would do everything you can and fight like hell to stay away from a commercial cab. No matter what they do to them they're still built to the lowest common denominator: how can I design ths thing to sell the most chassis? This is the same cab Com Ed will use for their service trucks; it's the same cab IDOT will use for their snowplows; same design on a dump truck or a cement mixer. There is not enough room in them; I'm sorry but three guys across the back simply CANNOT get airpacks on at the same time. It is all a$$holes and elbows. Finally, do a search on FH to find all the pictures of wrecked apparatus. If it rolled over, EVERY SINGLE COMMERCIAL CAB IS SQUASHED LIKE A ROTTEN MELLON. Most of the customs not only survive intact, but the doors still open.

It may be too late to argue for a custom, but firefighter safety and survival in a crash must be a paramount consideration. In the April edition of Fire Apparatus there is a picture of a Pierce Contender pumper ordered by the Verterans Affairs FD in Caln Township, PA. It is a custom cab pumper; diesel, eight-man cab; auto trans; Waterous 1250 pump; 1000 gal tank; foam system. The reported price tag: $147,000. That's only $10,000 more than we spent on our International mechanical-a$$hole TEN YEARS AGO!!

Say what you want about Pierce, they sell a lot of apparatus. I can garantee there are some out there that love 'em, and some that hate 'em. Same as all the others.

Just some food fer thought.

[VCFPD3]

Jay has a good point, The Spartan Big Easy only about $10k more than commercial chasis and more room.

[BVFD1983]

Say what you want about Pierce, they sell a lot of apparatus. I can garantee there are some out there that love 'em, and some that hate 'em.

We have a 1997 dash top mount pumper, I just love the look of top mounts. Our heavy rescue is an 2001 FL70, it seems to perform pretty well in build quality, etc. But commercial fire engines just don't look right :rolleyes:

[lilyogi]

One of the neighboring depts has a frieghtliner and they say they will never buy another, the door panels are falling off, the windows don't roll up right and other little things like that.
I don't like the room in them, not much at all. My dept has an HME custom chasis and we love it! I would highly recommend checking into them.
I know of one paid dept that bought a Pierce and then their next truck was an HME. Seems like their Pierce is in the shop all the time.

[ADSNWFLD]

Have you ever sat in the jumpseat of a Pierce Arrow, or the officer's side of a Lance or E-One Cyclone II, don't give me the no room bull. Today with helth insurance costs rising and taxes going up and up we need to be financially responsible.
Commercial or Custom all the rigs I've worked on have had transmission, engine, rear end problems. I don't know about you but our rigs are worn out when we dump them. In recent history we junked 3 Seagrave/FWD engines and the only rig sold and still in service is a Ford C8000. Yes, today rigs are built a bit better but when we dump our next rig an E-One if it will be used again the electrical system and many of the mechanical components will need work if it is going to be front line. We will only get a fraction of the purchase price for it.

NFPA wants to change their standards to require you to dump rigs at a certain age so resale will suffer anyway.

Sure with the exception of the new Spartan Gladiator Evolution, and the Pierce Quantum I like the look of a custom rig, but we need to look at the big picture and we don't work a truck as much as a gravel hauler or local delivery truck or the other private haulers. Look at a Coke truck. In the AM it is loaded to the max driven a few miles shut off, 15 minutes later it is started driven a mile shut off, and again and agin and again. Every day of the year.


Back to the original question with local ambulances it seems that the Freightliner is built better then the International.

[efd824]

Just to throw out something else we have a 2002 Kenworth T-300 chassis and we love it, it was not expensive, turns on a dime. There are no real blind spots when driving. It is fairly roomy for a commercial chassis. Starting to spec. a new tanker in 2 weeks and a sister KW is going to be sitting beside it.

[ChiefReason]

I'm for purchasing whatever will meet the needs of the fire department and the community. Some prefer cabover. Some prefer conventional. A neighboring department just bucked the trend of the 5 person cab by getting a Chevy with a Cat diesel and a 5 speed manual tranny and a 2 speed rear axle. How is your personnel getting to the scene if you don't have a cab that can accommodate more than 2-3 people?
We like the Freightliner for that reason. Ford and Chevy don't make a twin cab yet. IH-Navistar wrote the book on twin cabs, but they need to fix the poor turning radius, which isn't a problem for many, unless you have those tight corners/alleys.
Many rural departments think that a twin cab is a luxury that they can't afford or isn't necessary. I disagree.
Getting your people to the scene safely and minimizing the personal vehicles is important. Value should always be a consideration. Just don't cut yourself too short.
Most of the time, you only get one shot at building the truck. Make sure it's the one you want. Re-work can get very expensive.
And post a picture when it's done.;)
CR

[Weruj1]

lets see............... I can comment on almost everything posted here
1) If it comes down between the FL and an IH go FL ......... we run a 1998 and it is made by E-one and had some E-one problems it drives nice and has room for 4 ........
2) Have seen a dept in GA that ran the IH's and you talk about what Jay said.............it WAS a$$holes and elbows............ mighty cramped from what I saw compared to the FL
3) Toledo Ohio recently went to KW cahssis on their newer engines .......here is a mighty short link..http://www.toledofiretrucks.com/ unknown how THEY like them........ they are E-ones also

[Weruj1]

and ..................oh yeah ..........thanks for letting us Ohioians post here !

[jaybird210]

and ..................oh yeah ..........thanks for letting us Ohioians post here !

F***ing tourists!:rolleyes:















:p :D :D :cool:

[jboczek]

I still haven't gotten much idea about the 2003 4400 IH. I've only seen one and it's got a heck of a lot more room in it than the FL80s we've looked at. IH puts Bostrom SCBA seats in and they have more butt room than the 911 seats in the FL80. I've been in a 2000 4400 and a 2003 4400. There's no comparison in inside room. IH made a big improvement.
I'm just about to make a recommendation after going over the bids all weekend at my in-laws. Nothing else to do but look at fire truck stuff.
For the guys that like the KWs, we have IH and Freightliner dealers only 15 minutes away so we'll go with one of them. I've heard that the new KWs are nice, but service location means a lot to us.
CR, I've got the votes for the 4 door,no problem. Don't worry, you'll see a picture in about 3 or 4 months.
Thanks for all the replies. Even the ones from all the "foreigners".

[Weruj1]

man this is a rough crowd............LOL

[jboczek]

Thanks for all the replies, but I don't need any more advice. It's too late for that. Trustees took the plunge last night and approved a IH 4400, 4 door, Crimson pumper from Towers Fire Apparatus. First new engine in 30 years. 1250 pump, 1000 tank, stainless steel body, top mount controls, roll up doors and only a few other bells and whistles. I really appreciate them for doing this, even if it means doing without some other things for a few years. I realize it's a big step to take to have to borrow that much money, but we've got the tax base to pay it back - might as well spend it. Oh, it is going to be red.

[80FIRE]

Congratulations on the new truck Jack. We discussed purchase of a new pumper at our trustees meeting last night. That’s about as far as it got. They don’t want to borrow any money and our truck replacement account is a long way from funding one.

[ChiefReason]

Jack:
Boy, do I know a certain company president from a small town near me who's going to be disappointed that he didn't get your new truck order.
Where is the company located that you're buying from?
How did that IH turn? Did it have plenty of power?
IH looks better white. For some reason, they look strange red.
Maybe it's just me. I wonder how they would look "fluorescent red"?
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Congratulations on your new piece. You can stop the bragging now.:p
CR

[DjInferno]

White?? We've got that green truck, isn't that enough?! :)
I think I'm more excited about the new truck than he is, although with any luck I won't be around to use to TOO long.
CR, if the pres. of the other company is upset, dad will be more upset about actually picking one company. Now he's gonna have to find other ppl to buy him lunch all the time! I'm thinkin maybe building contractors since we're workin on new station plans. Anyway, the company our truck is coming from is Towers Fire Apparatus in Freeburg. should be a good truck for us, now all we gotta do is wait a few months.......

Doug

[jboczek]

I won't go hungry. We still have the pre construction meeting in their office, probably scheduled about lunch time, and we get to go to South Dakota to inspect and pick up the truck so that'll be several meals. Got lunch when we signed the contract yesterday. That's why I'm chief. I know how to mooch a meal.