Civilians are fun

[psychospitfire]

In our small town, we use radios as well as a town siren to indicate calls. One night, a call came in at 1:00am, and the sirens were sounded. Well, we went to the call and everything was fine and good until the next morning when a call came in on our emergency line. An old woman phoned to complain about the late night noise, asking why on earth we would set off the sirens in the middle of the night and disturb people. She believed that we only did this to annoy the town's people. It took nearly five minutes to calm her down and get her to call our land line instead of tying up emerg.

It's funny, people expect us to be there within seconds if something bad is happening to them, but if it's anyone else, then heaven forbid we make any noise. I'm pretty sure that if it was them that needed help, they'd want the whole town notified and coming to their aid. How ironic.:rolleyes:

[Bones42]

Not ironic at all. In this day and age, the use of an audible siren is very outdated. Pagers, scanners, radios, etc. have made the use of the audible siren at 1:00am a thing of the past. We can talk to guys in a space ship circling the earth, and yet we need to wake up the whole area with an "air raid" siren?

How many of your members are alerted to calls by the siren alone? If the siren were turned off, how many members would not know to respond? These are tough questions. If you can justify the siren's use, then you need to get out and educate your public. You may have a hard time explaining to your whole town why they need to hear a siren at 1:00am when your FD is responding to garbage can fires, clean up's at accidents, false alarm calls, etc.

We have an audible siren in my town also. It only goes off for certain types of fires at certain hours of the day. This was due to public complaints, and sitting down listening to their complaints, and really thinking about the need for the siren. Remember, you're there to serve the public, not just the ones that call you for help. You have to consider the bigger picture.

Stay Safe. Good Luck.

[raven911]

Pagers work best, save the siren for severe storms and air raids.

[jaybird210]

There is a town not far from me that blows their siren for everything, including mamboolance calls. Their chief's theory: "If my people have to get up at 1:30am for the guy that's had abdominal pain since 10:00am the day before, I want everybody to know it. They can go right back to sleep. My folks are up for at least the next two hours...."

[psychospitfire]

For us, sirens are a bit of a necessity. We tend to have forgetful people that do not have their radios on all of the time. Alot of people turn off their pagers at night, so the siren is the only way that they would be able to be informed of a call. We are only a volunteer department, so response is not manditory. Also, some junior members don't have radios at all, so without the siren, they would never make a call. I can see the people's point, but it would be nice for them to realize that we do what we do for a reason: to serve the community as best we can.

[MalahatTwo7]

We don't have the problem of people not having pagers or radios, so much as that a lot of us work outside/inside with noisy hand tools, and occasionally a button gets bumped "off" too. Also I for one will often place my pager in the living room or kitchen and then go out to grab wood for the fire or some other such detail.

I live only 4 houses down from the station, so having the siren trip on is a good thing. Also, more than any of the above, it alerts the kids in the neighbourhood to get off the road. Another thing too, sometimes for reasons unknown, the pagers do not "trip"; I've had that happen a couple of times. Its something to do with the repeater and the console at the Dispatch office not "talking" to each other properly.

[Bones42]

Alot of people turn off their pagers at night Why? Don't they want to know there is a call?:rolleyes:

Malahat, we used a lot of your arguements when talking with the public and others similar. Cutting the grass, in the shower, just running out to store for a minute, etc. They are all very good arguements. However, how often are any of these activites being done at 2:00am? Hence, why have the siren on all night? During the daylight, fine, no problem, but when the sun goes down...

They can go right back to sleep. My folks are up for at least the next two hours...." Your folks volunteered to be part of that organization, we did not volunteer to hear their siren all night. Yup, you are saving me money (as volunteers) and I appreciate the daylights out of you for doing it (volunteering), but why do I need to have my kids traumatized by the siren at 2:30am when pagers are available?

Am I coming across as being against sirens? Yup.
Am I against sirens? Nope.

These are the discussions we had and continue to have. We still run our siren for all calls (and EMS has their own siren that runs for all calls) from 7am to 11pm. From 11-7, it only sounds for certain types of calls. We still get a few minor complaints, these have been the stories they give us. I wish I could give you the answers that solve the problem...maybe when it's solved?

[CaptainGonzo]

Originally posted by psychospitfire
For us, sirens are a bit of a necessity. We tend to have forgetful people that do not have their radios on all of the time. Alot of people turn off their pagers at night, so the siren is the only way that they would be able to be informed of a call. We are only a volunteer department, so response is not manditory. Also, some junior members don't have radios at all, so without the siren, they would never make a call. I can see the people's point, but it would be nice for them to realize that we do what we do for a reason: to serve the community as best we can.

A "gentle reminder" of why they joined the VFD in the first place should be issued. If that does not work, give the radios and pagers to those who are willing respond, since the "others" apparently don't want to be "disturbed".

[Engine5FF]

Our local dept. uses a train whistle but it gets turned off after 10 PM. It is used during the day and weekends for the times you might be outside in your yard or working on something and don't have your pager with you. If it is late you are probably at home or in bed and have the pager in it's charger or by your bed stand, right?

[Dalmatian90]

Leave the siren as a backup, not primary notification. Blow it during the day occassionally if you want to make sure it's kept exercised. If people still complain, then it's a great oppurtonity to explain to them what you need for tax dollars to invest in a more fail-proof notification system.

Sirens do not excuse laziness of "forgetting" a pager, nor do they excuse turning a pager off at night (I'm still trying to figure out that one, let's see I'll turn my pager off at night so we have to run the siren and wake up all the neighbors while I sleep...)

Nor do sirens excuse reckless driving. If you have to warn the neighborhood kids to get off the street when you're responding to a call, somethings seriously wrong and it's not the siren not sounding.

Yeah, somethings just not the same running out of the house at oh-dark-thirty and not hearing the siren sounding in the distance. I miss it. I also miss open-cab fire engines. Times change and we need to be wise in which traditions we keep and which ones we hang up on the wall.

===========
btw, my department's policy since 1991 or so has been Sirens for Fires & MVAs between 8am and 10pm only. Cut us down at the time from 250+ siren activations a year to maybe 50 or so.

Siren remains available as a backup, and yes, we have used it as a true backup during major failures at the dispatch center resorting back to the old siren & phone tree while they repaired their main tower.

[firenresq77]

The problem of people turning thir pagers off needs to be addressed. As far as the "I was cutting the grass" or "working in the yard" falls right in line with turning the pager off. I have always heard mine while cutting the grass. They also make earpieces that plug right into most pagers. I used one with my Minitor I and also with my Minitor II, and they work great.......... We've had the argument before also over the sirens and it is always going to be one. One station wants it, the other doesn't have one. Bottom line is, that in MOST cases, there is no need for one with today's technology.....

[RyanEMVFD]

gee, our dept was petitioned to start using the siren again 24/7. we only set it off for fires in our district not for medical calls or mutual aid.

[Duffman]

ATTENTION: THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY. THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO CONSIDER THE SIREN A NECESSITY.

With all due respect psycho, you have failed to demonstrate even one good reason for sounding the siren at that hour (or any other) for any call.

I could go on and on but Bones and Capt. G have made my points already.

[LadyCapn]

Let's not forget that she is a young junior Firefighter. Chances are she has little or no imput into whether her Dept uses a siren or a cow bell.

[Duffman]

Let's not forget that she is a young junior Firefighter. Chances are she has little or no imput into whether her Dept uses a siren or a cow bell.

True she has no input, but she is entitled to her opinion. She has chosen to express that opinon, and we to disagree. Her opinion may one day be very influential in her department. I am just trying to get her to think beyond what the dinosaurs in her department are telling her.

[Bones42]

That be true LadyCapn, but now is the time to mold the young ones minds, before they get mired down in "traditions". Keep her with an open mind and looking at things from all sides, and she will run that department one day. ;)

[blaze79]

I'm on psychospitfire's FD, and our chief believes that it is a necessity. I think that it helps let the civilians know that there is an emergency, and fire trucks will soon be blasting down the road. Sometimes the call doesn't come through for whatever reason, so we need the sirens.

[LadyCapn]

I have no problem with molding etc, was just reminding not to come down too hard on her as it wasn't her decision to make and were she attempt to make change at this point, I can guarantee you would be fruitless.

I had to come back and edit my posts for spelling and grammar....wouldn't want to have to point myself out or anything...:D

[Bones42]

and fire trucks will soon be blasting down the road. and at 2:30am, how much traffic are they "blasting" through?

it helps let the civilians know that there is an emergency At 3:00am, unless it's their house, they probably don't care.


Get creative, get better arguments, get better reasoning. You're not winning my vote, and I'm in favor of siren use.


Blaze and psycho, not picking on you two. Just provoking discussion.

[SmokeyNY]

Because I am home for a limited time (I worked as a lifeguard over the summer 2 1/2 hrs from home and go to college out of state), I have not been issued a pager. So unless I am sitting next to my scanner the siren is the only other way I know that I am needed. I also approve of the idea of informing the citizens that there will be activity in the area. However, I live far enough away from the station that the siren does not wake me up and at this time it serves no purpose. Instead I rely on my scanner in my room. At this point the siren is unnecessary and should be shut off.

[psychospitfire]

It's true, I am but a lowly junior member. I really have no say on what methods of notification are to be used. I was simply trying to make the point that in my community, a siren is important. Now, I'm getting blasted for not having a good enough argument for that, well, I wasn't trying to argue. I can't help but feel a little picked on.:(

[blaze79]

All right. Psycho is a very reliable "junior" firefighter. She's committed to her duties, and she has the same training as all of the other FF's. She knows what's going on in her department. I think it's rude that some of you are questioning her intelligence. :(

Let's get this straight. Different FDs use different methods. Our FD chooses to sound the siren when there is an emergency. We have very minimal complaints, and we explain to everyone that we feel the sirens are necessary. I understand that you may not agree with our methods, but that's your opinion. But please don't refer to my department as "dinosaurs". We know what we are doing. By the way, we have never actually had people just turn off their pagers so they won't be bothered by an incoming call. We feel that sirens are an important notice for people.

Another thing. Don't people wake up when an three trucks go screaming past their houses late at night? Or do you not turn on your trucks' sirens? Our method works, and we are not about to change it because some other firefighters think it's old-fashioned. That's MY opinion.

[Dalmatian90]

Don't people wake up when an three trucks go screaming past their houses late at night?

Well, it probably doesn't bother as much as the much louder station sirens, which in my area go on a three-minute cycle which is much more than 10, 20 seconds of a fire truck going by.

More thoughtful question, why use lights & sirens when there is little or no traffic on the road?

Certainly for reported structure fires, difficulty breathing, chest pain calls L&S is appropriate when you have traffic you need to get through. The heavier the traffic, the more & more situations use of siren is needed.

[jaybird210]

I propose an end to this thread. It is going the way of the smooth-bore vs. fog or career vs. vollie, or red vs. lime fire engines threads. It seems to have boiled down to a case of "this is what we do" and now they are having to defend it against people from completely different areas of the CONTINENT who have different experiences and different needs. Let's let it go. Blaze and Spitfire's department has and uses the siren; some others use the siren during the day; some don't use it all.

The useful dialoge seems to have ended. This is a local decision by the chief and his/her bosses. I don't intend to defend our position to you people because you are not here. I do not intend to attack (or demand a "satifactory argument") for their position because I am not there.

[Bones42]

Well, I think people need to lighten up and realize they are not being attacked. Discussions happen. People have different ideas. People have different reasons for what they do. Can't we discuss something and not agree without people feeling like they are being attacked?

A statement was made, people said what they have been through in their areas with similar situations. Not many people are saying their way is the only way or even the right way. Maybe, just maybe, some of us are having these problems now and are looking for what others have done for their solutions?

blaze and psycho, your not "lowly" juniors, you are juniors. There is nothing lowly about that. You are getting an early start on a profession, it does not make you any lower than anyone else and please, don't feel that way.

Don't be afraid to question things.

[Weruj1]

I was thinkning that these poeple were being picked on at first ........then I saw that someone complained ..... and we have the thumbsdown sign at the top of the post. I also agree that certain things can be discussed. I would say that if one of the residents complained that maybe there are more and /or maybe the Chief should IN MY OPINION stop this archaic noise generating machine. We have had pagers since 1978 and have never used our siren except for severe weather. I just think there are better ways to alert your firefighters than an outdoor warning device.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Why does EVERY thread turn into a he said/she said "whizzing" match? I dont think our new young friend was intent on starting a raging flameout with her post. There are many places that still blow the ol' si-reeeen to alert their people.(not in my hood thank Jah almighty)... Here we have a fresh new firefighter, yet to be jaded like the rest of us and BLAMMO it has to turn "spirited". Now I have been known to fly off the handle at times in these very forums but I am trying to be a kinder, gentler Mike. So lets all take a deep breath and have a glorious day.

[Weruj1]

Mikey,
perhaps you are right .............

[jaybird210]

originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT

but I am trying to be a kinder, gentler Mike.


I love you, Mike.




I'm Kidding!!! I'M KIDDING!!
:eek: :D :D :p :cool:

[blaze79]

It's about time. I thought I'd have to get mean to stop all of the arguing (cough cough). To clear some things up, I'm not a junior, and psycho is a "first year" which means she's not considered a junior anymore. So, yeah.....

[psychospitfire]

Thank you for all of the people who realize that I was not trying to be the cause of controversy. In the famous words of someone famous> "Can't we all just get along?":D