Would YOU go underneath this roof?

[CollegeBuff]

http://www.uticaod.com/news/photogallery/projects2003/sauquoit/pix/1.jpg

Firehouse.com story (includes link to photostory of incident) (http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=5745&sectionId=46)

[ff7134]

No way, I don't see, any type of shoring which is a big no no

[hwoods]

This is NOT the place for any human life form to be. Period. As someone already said, Where's the shoring?? Our County's Collapse Team (I'm a member) does not permit any person, No matter who they may be, to get in such a position. How do you guarantee that the collapse is stable and will not settle more? Easy answer - Shore it. If there is no one to be rescued from this structure, then there shouldn't be anyone in it. I fully understand concern for equipment, been there, But equipment is replaceable, life is not. Also, the firefighter appeared to be in full protective gear, good move, but what about the photographer?? I think this will be overshadowed by events this coming weekend in the mid Atlantic area, where up to 2 inches of rain is predicted to fall over top of a record snow that is not melting fast. Stay Tuned.... and Stay Safe....

[EastKyFF]

I wouldn't be caught dead under that roof--or in that ugly van.

(And before I get a speech about "maybe that's the best they can do," there was a time when that was the best my FD could do, and we thought ours was just as ugly.)

[Dalmatian90]

Random thoughts...

How do you shore if you don't go underneath it a bit? This isn't a car where you can build a crib stack and push it into place.

How do we know they haven't already made an reasonable evaluation and found the apparatus are acting as supports now? Let's remember, they took the time to bring in an elevated construction platform & and used life-lines for the crew clearing the snow from the roof. So there's evidence they weren't rushing foolishly.

It's a single photo, and I'm not convinced from it unreasonably unsafe activities where taking place.

[MalahatTwo7]

However, after reading the attched article, it would seem that although there is no visable shoring, (I agree this should be put in prior to any interior ops though) there had been a structural assessment done. The report says that they were able to extract the Rescue out, but that all others were still lodged inside.

However, I do strongly agree with Dal90 It's a single photo, and I'm not convinced from it unreasonably unsafe activities where taking place.

[e3med53]

for what it's worth, which isn't much...

At least the guy is standing kinda close to a wall.
Looks like they have plenty of space so why not shore it.

[cfdeng3]

From the angle of the photo, I would almost guess that the ugly van is supporting much of the weight of the roof. As stated previously, someone would have to be in there in order to shore it, granted you shore as you go along but that is just semantics.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

The key word in all of these posts is "guess". None of you have one single idea about what this photo shows. Do any of you have any interest in gathering all the facts before you shoot your mouths off? Do any of you have any concern about the well-being of this fire department? If you do, you all forgot to say it.

[bfd5229]

chill....we dont know everything your right but from this picture we all can tell that, that is not a good place to be, unless you want to die or get injured from the roof falling on you.

[CollegeBuff]

Also, in case anybody missed it, I did post the link to the written story and the gallery it has with more photos. I pretty much put the first one they have that shows the inside just to have a photo ready to go along with the debate.

Do any of you have any concern about the well-being of this fire department?

Well, for starters George, I'm fairly certain that everyone's concerned for the department's safety. The folks who said "No, they shouldn't be under that roof in it's position in that photo" are probably VERY concerned. Like Dal and cfdeng mentioned, there are certain realities involved that also deserve thought.

Personally, given the position of the roof and apparatus, the idea of them driving the van out from under it does bother me quite a bit. Yes, I can't see what's on the other side- Atlas himself could be holding the rest of it up, who knows. :rolleyes:

[sfdlt5]

First of all I would like to thank George for the good thaughts and common sense. Yes that is me in the photo and as for the condition of the roof. To my right is a tanker which almost did not fit in the barn , cause it is extremely close to the cieling. Hense supporting a large amount of wieght. Also if you look at the other photos you would see that we had a loader supporting the front of the building. The truck you can see is not our current rescue. We had just removed the rescue when the pic was taken . That truck in the background is an out of service truck and was also supporting wieght.
We are still trying to get some vehicles in service to run all calls, at this time we are only running EMS, MVA witha rescue, and fires with mutual aid and a donated salvage from Yorkville fire dept. Our nieghbors are being very helpful. We are going to be recieving a pumper from Whitesboro fully equiped and a tanker from Clinton. This will allow us to respond to all calls. I give personal thanks to New York Mills for hose and nozzles, New Hartford for hose, and all the above fire depts, also all those who have offered and may still offer assistance in our time of need.
OK now a last thaught. Seeing how some individuals in these forums can only critisize I can om=nly hope you never have to see an incident like this from this side. George and all others who have us in there prayers, We thank you .

[hwoods]

Some good points have been made (and Discussed, or was it Cussed?) here, and while I extend my sympathy and best wishes for a quick recovery to normal for this Fire dept., I am standing by my opinion that no one should be standing under a collapsed structure until such time that it is adequately shored. Can there be shoring out of the photo? Of Course. In regard to the comment about box cribs being pushed into place, Why not here?? One of our standard methods of shoring is to build a vertical Support of 4x4 posts, 4 ft. apart in a square, cross braced as appropriate, then push the assembled shoring into place, and secure it with wedges/pads. There are a lot of tricks out there as far as how to secure a damaged structure, and anyone working in this field should be coversant with them. Thanks, Stay Safe

[SPFDRum]

hwoods
I am standing by my opinion that no one should be standing under a collapsed structure until such time that it is adequately shored.
How do you adequately shore the building if you don't get under it? Your not doing it from the top...Most likely you will need to shore from parameter walls in.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

who knows

Exactly.

[CollegeBuff]

Boy, you really got me George, good for you. :rolleyes:

[Adze39]

"Uhhhh Jed...go on over yonder and put on a Scott Pack then stand in front of our front line van for the news folk"

[SFDAJL52]

::shakes the magic 8-ball:: "All signs point to no"

[backdraft663]

Originally posted by EastKyFF
I wouldn't be caught dead under that roof--or in that ugly van.

(And before I get a speech about "maybe that's the best they can do," there was a time when that was the best my FD could do, and we thought ours was just as ugly.)



yea if you were cought under that you probably would be dead, i know i sure in the heck wouldnt be there, that guy has some you know what