Not Sure If This Is A Good Idea... But Whatever Makes Ya Happy I Guess

[MalahatTwo7]

This was in the paper a few days ago, but its still there... and it makes me wonder about people sometimes..... Maybe somebody from New Yawke can shed some light.

New York Libertarians stage 'Guns for Tots' giveaway to protest toy gun ban.

Canadian Press Thursday, February 06, 2003

NEW YORK (AP) - The Manhattan Libertarian party conducted a "Guns for Tots" toy giveaway Thursday outside a New York City public school to protest against a city bill that would ban the imitation weapons.

"Water pistols, noisemakers and other plastic gun-shaped novelties are the stuff of any red-blooded American childhood," party member Jim Lesczynski said at a City Council committee hearing on the bill.

Afterward, he and at least one other party member handed out toy guns to children outside P.S. 72 in East Harlem.

City officials condemned the action.

"Our children should never be used as pawns in a political fight," Manhattan Borough President C. Virginia Fields said in a statement.

Some guns were passed out but it was unclear just how many. Education Department spokesman Kevin Ortiz said the school was closed by the time the Libertarians showed up. He added school officials were aware of the giveaway and notified parents.

Lesczynski said his party collected toy guns from citizens opposed to the legislation, which was introduced in October.

Current city law permits only the sale of brightly coloured toy guns constructed of transparent material.

Proponents of a total ban on selling or possessing toy guns argue it is easy to paint the toy guns black or cover them in black tape to make them look real. They add many criminals use toy guns because they know if they are caught the penalty is less severe.

© Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

It is a horrible idea.

True story. Very good friend of mine, seasoned police officer, dispatched to a fast food restaurant on a report of a male inside with a gun...2300 hours or so. Arrives on scene and takes up a position across the street and observes 2 male subjects with guns in the restaurant. Appears to be a robbery. Backups arrive and they secure the premises. Males come out, see the officers, point the weapons at the officers.

My friend and one or two of the other officers recognize that these idiots are playing laser tag. In the dark, it is very difficult to tell a toy from the real thing. These two morons are lucky they were not shot.

Toy guns used to be a staple of my childhood. But these are different times. We didn't have school shootings and gang wars and the like.

[PFire23]

I agree with you George. Way back when, it WAS ok to run up and down the street with toy guns, playing cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians. Today that isn't the case, so many things have changed, not just with toy guns, but with everything, and although a lot of things can get our children maimed or killed, I'd rather not push the envelope by purchasing a realistic looking gun for my kids to "play" with. It's sad to say, but a lot of "kid things" that I enjoyed in my younger years have had to be put to "bed" so to speak because of the way our world is today.

Below is a lil tidbit from another message board (again), yet I believe it says so much. There are so many things I did as a kid that there is no way I'd let my kids do. Sadly, our world changes and it's not always for the best, and somethings that change are for the better. We have to take the good with the bad and do the best we can with what we are given.


Do You Remember When....



How'd we do it?


Looking back, it's hard to believe that we have lived as long as we
have.................

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special
treat.

Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors, or cabinets, and when
we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention hitchhiking to town as
a young kid!)

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down
the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the
bushes a few times we learned to solve the problem.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back
when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. No cell
phones. Unthinkable.

We played dodge ball and sometimes the ball would really hurt. We got cut
and broke bones and broke teeth and there were no law suits from these
accidents. They were accidents. No one was to blame but us.
Remember accidents?

We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and learned to
get over it.

We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar soda but we were never
overweight....we were always outside playing. We shared one grape soda with
four friends, from one bottle and no one died from this?

We did not have Play stations, Nintendo 64, X Boxes, video games at all,
99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cellular
phones, Personal Computers, internet chat rooms, ... we had friends. We
went outside and found them.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rung
the bell or just walked in and talked to them. Imagine such a thing.
Without asking a parent!

By ourselves! Out there in the cold cruel world! Without a guardian. How
did we do it?

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and although we
were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the
worms live inside us forever.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't
had to learn to deal with disappointment..... Some students weren't as smart
as others so they failed a grade and were held back to repeat the same
grade.....Horrors. Tests were not adjusted for any reason.

Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. No one to hide
behind.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They
actually sided with the law, imagine that!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem
solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years has been an explosion of
innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and
responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. And you're one of
them.

Congratulations!

Please pass this on to others that have had the luck to grow up as kids,
before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good?



I believe that with progress, we've also had to learn "egress". We have had to learn how to "save" ourselves and our children from certain aspects of a progressive world; however much good progress brings it will also bring that much "bad" for there are always going to be those who will take advantage of the good and turn it to evil. Yesterday was ok, today is better and with the help of our children who have been guided by us tomorrow will be great, it will just never be the same.


(Forgive me if this was rambling and hard to follow, I had so much I wanted to say, however finding the words proved to be difficult)

[CaptainGonzo]

Libertarians believe in an "anything goes" philosophy. In their world, anything that infringes on their rights should be abolished..including fire and building codes, traffic laws, gun laws, criminal laws, child porn laws, child and domestic abuse laws, etc.

I can define them in a word... whackos!

PS: before someone slams me, I consider myself "middle of the road" in my political beliefs. I don't agree with all of the liberal philosphy, I don't agree wth all the conservative philosphy!

[martinm]

Althouth our sides of the Atlantic are very much different as far as firearms incidents is concerned and we are over here an essentially unarmed police service, we do have permanently armed officers in each police service area, who respond to firearms and weapons incidents. I work for the police service which covers my area, we would be likened to the State Police over your side, and have 8 armed officers, (out of about 300), on duty 24 hours a day.

Of last years incidents, which armed response were dispatched to, almost 90% involved young persons and teenaged youths seen with weapons, which invariably turn out to be either a BB gun or an air weapon.

As George has said, in the dark, how do you tell the difference?

As we are not confronted with face to face armed incidents on a daily basis, it is only a matter of time before one of our officers has to make a decison to open fire on a person in possession of a perceived firearm.

The idea of handing out more and more fake weapons, made up to look like the real thing, is only increasing the likleyhood of someone being injured or shot dead by a Police Officer, anywhere in the world, who has to make a difficult choice, kill or be killed, very, very quickly.

As was mentioned in the original post;
"Water pistols, noisemakers and other plastic gun-shaped novelties are the stuff of any red-blooded American childhood," party member Jim Lesczynski said at a City Council committee hearing on the bill.

Very true, blood is RED.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

We had CBC! I LOVED Hockey Night in Canada at as little girl! hmmmm I still love hockey as a big girl too :D I used to watch Get Smart at lunch time. Ok now I'm going to ramble on big time ......

Remember when:

Marbles, Mud pies, Simon Says, hoola hoops, skating / watching the boys and men play hockey on the outdoor rink, (we lived in a "circle" of houses, fence/hedge all around it - my dad worked for Trans Mountain Pipelines and they provided housing - on the "inside" of the circle there was a rink behind the garage where the big trucks were kept, horseshoes, sand and trees and natural dirt, swing set I think LOL) It was like a little community of our own. Bringing all the blankets and a bunch of clothes pegs outside to make "tents". Tether ball on the school grounds, pie in the snow on the school grounds at recess, hanging out at the outdoor pool during the summer - gone now replaced with fancy dancy arena and indoor pool :( trying to climb trees (hey I'm a chick! even with the nails in the trees I couldn't climb the dammm things) making tunnels and slides in the HUGE piles of snow after the plow had come through. Hide and seek, Krazy Karpets, K-way shells, the air raid fire siren outside my window (across the street). Fire was a BIG deal back then in my little town in the Rockies of 4000 people. Oh and skiing! We used to have to drive only a short ways up the mountain, park in parking lots and get on bus and go up this horrible winding road to go to Marmot Basin. Hanging on for dear life to mom's legs on the t-bar from hell because I was too small to ride it normally, or the REALLY old days when we skiied at Whistler Mountain, run by the Lions club, just a rope tow and poma lift. God I HATED that rope tow! Remember wooden skiis?? I don't think I EVER rode the poma lift. We go tabogganing there now. The Youth Hostel is the only building up there now. Summer days at the lake (3 or 4 different lakes to go to), spending the whole day there, big old cinnamon bears and black bears would come walking down the beach and we'd have to scoot out of the way 20 feet or so until they wandered away, many a time I'd be out in the back yard and a bear would come sauntering down the alley checking out all the garbages. Canoeing, hiking, picnics. Hot rods, trolls. I miss living in Jasper sigh ..... ah memories are sweet!

hmmmmmm PFire was right, we were always outside!

ok ramble over my old brain can't take no more thinking :D

ooooooops got so wrapped up in the memories I forgot about the gun part ....

I agree with PFire, we have to adjust our thinking and behaviour to the times. I remember realistic looking toy guns too, not the only the newer plastic ones, but ones that looked and sounded like a real guns. It is unfortunate but in this day and age things are much different than when we were children and you just can't do things the same way. In that same small town my sister now has to drive her 3 girls to school, it isn't safe to let them go on their own. That's sad. Society today dictates we have to change, to adopt and adapt. If that means outlawing toy guns then so be it. Personally I won't be buying any toy guns for my children (if and when I have some). Does a child's fascination with toy guns lead to curiousity when they happen to find that real gun you have stored in your den?

[PFire23]

Sheri, thanks for the trip down memory lane. I too found myself wandering back in time when I was making my post, but couldn't put it as eloquently as you did. But basically it was go out and play, come in by dark LOL. Hell, even after dark we were out in hordes playing "manhunt". Mom always knew we'd come when she blew the "horn" (a hollowed out texas longhorn) LOL. I miss those days for my kids. *sigh*

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I'm sitting here reading what you two wrote and you almost had me in tears. I wonder what we are really doing to our kids. The "risk-taker" comment really made me think.

Remember baseball, football, basketball, street hockey, whateverball games with no involvement from adults?

How about the jelly sandwiches and the fishing pole and leaving at dawn AND your mother telling you she didn't want to see you until dark?

Remember how your mother could find you in about three phone calls to other moms on the block?

Big one...does anybody remember "Buck-buck"?

Sigh, I think I'll go dig out my old HS yearbook and varsity sweater.

[PFire23]

I too remember pick up shinny hockey, either on the street or on the outdoor rink in the park...... ya just went and played with whoever happened to be there. You ate snacks that happened to be brought out by another kid, you wandered the neighborhood for hours and hours, played knicky nine doors, beat the hell outta kids for picking on your brother (and earned the respect for doing so LOL), didn't have to worry about getting charged for it cuz it was kid stuff, you weren't scared to walk after dark..... blah blah blah

As for what are we teaching our kids, unfortunately we are teaching our kids how to survive in today's world. It's sure not like it was, and it never will be again. Now we have to teach our children to fear and be suspicious, we have to teach them that it's NOT safe to trust other adults, that includes priests, teachers and coaches, for we have learned the hard way. We have to teach our kids about things at earlier and earlier ages, we have to expose them to the harsh realities of life that a lot of us didn't have to endure until we were at the very least in our mid teens.

Where can we lay the blame? It's hard to say, as years go by, and the world progresses we are becoming more and more lax with a lot of things. As technology improves and grows it becomes easier and easier for those with "hidden and not so hidden" agendas to succeed. Can we protect our children from all? Not likely, but we can instill in them OUR morals and values and hope they take, we can teach them right from wrong, and hope they remember; we can shield them from the bad, and try to explain and rationalize that which we can't shield them from, and most of all we can drill into them that THEY are the future, what our world becomes rests upon their shoulders. Long gone are the days of censorship and Mulberry PD and Leave it to Beaver....... it's hard to say good bye to the simpler, safer times; yet we must embrace and face what the future holds with the confidence that we have taught our children well; and that we have instilled enough of us in them that it will remain through their growing up years.

We can't stop progress, but we can help push it in the right direction, by believing in ourselves, our children, our countries, our "goodness"; and most of all by believing that no matter how bad it may get "good shall overcome"!!! We have to remember that it's not all bad, just some of it is, unfortunately with the advent of computers and multimedia we just hear more and see more than we did as children. Who knows, it was all out there before, just not as widespread and not made as readily available as it is now. Perhaps as a society we have just become too "accepting", too willing to "turn away" from that which we find repugnant, hard to swallow, or incomprehensible; maybe it's time to stand up and say NO to things we find disagreeable, be loud in our beliefs, make our wants and thoughts heard. One voice can be silenced, but thousands of voices will be heard!! Population booms, poverty, slow job markets .... all have an effect on how the human race reacts....... maybe a simple solution is this, instead of helping everyone else "first" perhaps it's time to "clean" our own backyards and help our "own". JMHO (not meant as a prejudicial statement by any means)

[DocLaw]

Back in the early and mid-1960's, as a Cub Scout and Boy Scout, I wore my uniform to school, and on that uniform was either a Cub Scout or Boy Scout knife. It was part of the uniform.

Nobody thought anything about it. All of us Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in uniform then wore the knives from the little belt hook, as well as our hats, neckerchiefs, and emblems and pins. We wore the uniform near Holiday times, for school photos, all sorts of events.

Today if a kid so much as draws a knife on a piece of paper, he is suspended or expelled and has to see a shrink or probation officer.

That's nuts, and that is how stupid we have become as a society.

In Crestwood, Illinois, a grade-school boy was suspended from school for bringing a toy telescope, "because it looked like a gun" according to school officials.

Give those kids the toy guns. Any cop who cannot tell a toy gun from a real one, or cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation without shooting first does not deserve to be a cop. (in the dark? Dang it, that's what flashlights and spotlights are for!)

I could go on and on about this one, but I will be nice to everybody and calm down now.

The Doc is out and in need of tranquilizers now. :rolleyes:

Doclaw: Holder of Commendation Of Merit for facing down and disarming a shotgun-wielding man. (I was scared silly - really, scared something else - but I got out of it with neither one of us getting ventilated that night. The judge told the man he was lucky he had the me and not one of the others or the guy might not have been there to be sentenced, telling the guy the shooting would have been justified)

[RspctFrmCalgary]

LOL no need for phone. My dad's was a whistle!!! You KNEW it was HIS whistle as soon as you heard it!!!

And when he whistled holy S**T you'd better get your A** home in about 30 seconds OR ELSE!!!! And that whistle could be heard at a house more than a 1/2 block away (outside the Circle!!!! boy did I get in S**T for that one!!! I was hanging out with Mike and Jeff Young (twins one year older) on their back porch one night probably around 7 or 8pm and WAS NOT supposed to be OUTSIDE the Circle!!!)

Oh and when we were REALLY REALLY BAD ....... pants down, bend over the footstool and boy did that leather belt HURT!!!!!!!! If we were only bad, then it was a spanking. Had to be pretty serious to get the leather belt!

Snowmobiling!!! We actually used to be able to snowmobile in Jasper National park. Skating on the lakes. Street hockey for sure. Trash day in elementary school where the whole school would be split into groups, given big garbage bags and we'd cruise the town picking up litter - there were competitions to see which group collected the most bags! SKI days in elementary school!!! There were about 4 of us ( I was the only girl) that had skiied since we were little wee ones so we always buggered off on Ski days, couldn't handle waiting for all the slowpokes who were snowplowing! Lesson .... we don't need no stinkin' lesson!!!! You could pick what sport you were going to do for the day - skiing, skating, I can't remember all the choices.

Walking the dog, taking the dog for a run on the bike, bathing the dog, cleaning up the dog poop, raking the leaves, washing and putting in the storm windows in the fall, weeding the garden, washing the car (station wagon of course ... what did you expect with 3 kids and a dog), my most hated job .... getting down on hands and knees and cleaning out the oh what are those things called, the "gutters" around your lawn, piano lessons, playing "Oh Canada" on the piano up on the stage in elementary school for Monday morning assembly. God how on earth did I have the guts to do that LOL! School trips. Where nobody died. Track and field days in elementary school! The best part was those ice cream thingys at the end of the day, and the ribbons of course! You sure didn't hear the "F" word walking past the school grounds in those days.

ohohoh I have a good one ..... writing thank you letters to the grandparents when you got that cute birthday card/Easter card. That US $1 or $5 was such a treat!

paddy cake paddy cake!!!

Ok enough .... P look what you started! :D :p

Your newest post is awesome by the way. To expand on one thing that you talked about ....

Perhaps as a society we have just become too "accepting", too willing to "turn away" from that which we find repugnant, hard to swallow, or incomprehensible; maybe it's time to stand up and say NO to things we find disagreeable, be loud in our beliefs, make our wants and thoughts heard. One voice can be silenced, but thousands of voices will be heard!!

Another slant on this, post September 11th, is that people will not be complacent anymore and will STAND UP and DO SOMETHING to make a difference. You just have to look at the way people have reacted in certain situations since, I'm specifically thinking about incidents on aircraft, where passenger will no longer sit back and let someone blow their shoe up or rush the cockpit for example.

We have to remember that it's not all bad, just some of it is, unfortunately with the advent of computers and multimedia we just hear more and see more than we did as children. Who knows, it was all out there before, just not as widespread and not made as readily available as it is now.

I think that is definitely true, to some extent. You didn't air your dirty laundry in public. Things were not spoken of. There was nobody to go to, no agencies, no counselling, no safe houses, etc. Were men sexually assualting boys in the middle ages .... of course. Did men beat their wives .... yes. If people knew things about their neighbors, acquaintances and peers did they talk about it? NOPE. Things were inferred but never brought out in the open. People have been taking advantage of people since the beginning of time. Centuries change, societies change, crimes change, but are some things really any different "now" than "then"??? Certain things just aren't tolerated anymore, which is good, but overall do we live in a better world now than in 1900, 1930, 1950, 1970?? (pick a date any date)

Sorry, I don't think I'm expressing myself very well I'll stop now .... PFire did a much better job!

[RspctFrmCalgary]

OMG Doc I forgot about Brownies!!! hehehe

You are right though, things that were once innocent are now looked upon with suspicion. Have we gone too far as a society trying to "protect people's / kids rights"? Trying to "do the right thing"?

[fflynn17]

I enjoyed what PFire and Sheri wrote: My parents had an airhorn that they called us in with! One blast was for my brother, two for my sister, three for me and one long one meant that whoever was out was in trouble!!!

However I do not agree with this:
Give those kids the toy guns. Any cop who cannot tell a toy gun from a real one, or cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation without shooting first does not deserve to be a cop. (in the dark? Dang it, that's what flashlights and spotlights are for!)

Remember Amadou Diallo?? IMHO, the cops had every right to shoot. I haven't been pulled over in a LONG time, but I say "Yes sir, no sir, may I go into my back pocket to get my wallet"

I have no intention of ever having kids, but I agree with the bright purple and pink toy gun laws.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Why did you have to turn such a nice sentimental stroll down memory lane into a battle?

Give those kids the toy guns. Any cop who cannot tell a toy gun from a real one, or cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation without shooting first does not deserve to be a cop. (in the dark? Dang it, that's what flashlights and spotlights are for!)

You're a lawyer? Let me guess what side of the room you practice on? Have you ever been a cop? Obviously not.

"Excuse me sir, but would you stand there for a minute and display that object in your hand so I can shine my flashlight on it (and expose my body as a target) in order for me to determine whether you have a dangerous weapon"?

I suppose you would like the officer to determine the person's intent before I shoot as well, huh?

Lawyers like you are responsible for the deaths of many police officers. It takes less than a split second for a bad guy to raise his weapon and shoot. A good officer anticipates that situation and prepares, mentally and physically, for the eventuality of the serious issue of using deadly force. But the lawyers, who swarm like vultures every time there is a police involved shooting, sometimes make that officer hesitate to use deadly force and BANG...he is dead. Yes it happens.

I have never used deadly force. But I can tell you that it is a sobering experience to point a weapon at another human being in anticipation of having to use it. I have done that many times in 18 years as a law enforcement officer. The overwhelming majority of officers take that responsibility just as seriously.

Spare me any of your legal BS, because I have heard it all before.
I would just like to know how you and your attitude sleep at night and look at yourself in the mirror in the morning.

Sorry, Sheri. He made me do it.

[PFire23]

Hey Sheri...... remember Chinese Skipping, with the elastics tied together and you needed 3 ppl or 2ppl and a solid object to loop one end around before you could play? I was sooooo addicted to that when I was 8ish LOL. I almost knocked my damn front teeth out "practicing" at home, had no one to hold the elastic so I looped it around 2 light weight lawn chairs, and when I jumped on the elastic the chair flew up and caught me in the mouth LOL :D

How 'bout the moment you said your first swear, remember the shock value of actually having said the almighty "F" word, and having used it in the correct context LOL. My first time *that I remember* was in Grade 4 when me and a bunch of boys were playing soccer and one of them pinned me to the fence. I asked him nicely several times to let me go and he wouldn't so I finally ever so sweetly *of course sweetly I was wearing a dress after all* told him to F' OFF!!!! Heheheh, he was so shocked he backed off, and then threatened to tell on me, then I was scared!!!!!! :rolleyes:

OHHHHH YEAH, how 'bout picking on younger siblings hehehee. I was absolutely evil to my lil brother. When I was 7 and he was 4 we lived on an acreage and I made him lie across the drive way and be my speed bump, then I proceeded to drive back and forth over him with my bike til I got soooooooo busted by my mom. I made him sit on cactus', told him he'd get "high" if he smoked red licorice and LMAO when he tried, even when we were older if I ran into him in the bar and some skank seemed to be getting too cozy to him, I'd sidle up to him and pretend to be his g/f so the icky thing would go away. LMAO Hehehehe, I'm having fun at this!!!

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Well since the first time I loooked at this thread today and now, I was on a REAL shooting. It had nothing to do with toys or trips down memory lane. It had to do with lawlessness and stupidity. This is the second one of the year so far for me. Not bad for a town of 18,000 people. Toy guns are not the problem. Stupid people are. i played with toy guns and never once thought about actually shooting someone. My cousins kids all got toy guns with the little foam darts. They were running around like little nuts having fun. It is too bad that we have to feel uncomfortable about toy guns because we cannot control who has access to REAL guns...I am not sure if I am making any sense here, but that is not the point. Our "victim" today may never have played with a toy gun. The dude that shot him may not have either. But they sure as hell dont mind shooting each other with the real McCoy. I am not for gun control. I am for PEOPLE control.

[PFire23]

Point Well made Mikey!!!! But we all know that the only ppl we can truly control are ourselves, we can only "try" to control others. Oh, and I'm glad you are back safe and I'm sorry that you had a sh**ty call today.

I am not sure that this is about being pro gun control or not, what it is about is how some things have become so realistic looking even if they are toys, and how the world has changed so much that sometimes what is innocent may appear otherwise. JMHO

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

The funny thing is Jenn, the only thing I was concerned about was the fact when we rolled up to the "secure" scene. The police still had there guns drawn. The shooter wasnt there anymore, but we couldnt tell what in the heck was going on. I really dont get too sympathetic towards guys like our "victim"...He didnt see nutthin, dosent know who or why anyone would shoot him....It does bother me when there are truly innocent people hurt. This didnt bother me ONE BIT.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

We used to play "truth or dare" with the neighborhood girls...Nothin like almost fainting when you are in 4th grade and have to spend 5 minutes in the closet with the local 6th grade "girl with experience"...:eek: :o

[PFire23]

sooooooo hence the name MIKEYLIKESIT???? hehehehehe :D :D

[RspctFrmCalgary]

No problem George, after all, I was the one the took the thread in another direction. PFire made me do it!!!!

Hopscotch, skipping and double-dutch (I sucked at it, so I was usually one of the "turners") anybody remember the skipping rhymes??

Waiting for REAL popsicles to freeze on a hot summer day :D :D

***reading new posts

OMG Chinese skipping I LOVED THAT!!!! Didn't know it was called Chinese skipping but there ya go!!! hehehe

LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY AT EVERYTHING I'M READING!!! SPEED BUMP HAHAHAH!!!

awwwwwwwww S**T it keeps going and going ...... LMFAOOOOOOOOO sit on a cactus???!!!!! smoke red licorice!!!!! OMGGGGGG

This is soooo fun!!

Sigh .... ok back to the topic .... MIKEY sorry you had to go through that. Glad you got back safe. But I think what the point is, in my opinion, is that toy guns get used in real crimes, whether they are painted or taped to look real or not people believe they are real guns. I don't think anyone is saying that because we played with toy guns and bow and arrows and slingshots and BB guns as children that we are more likely to pick up a gun and shoot someone as an adult.

OK who's going to share next?? I'm waiting to hear from the guys what little monsters they were :D :D :D

[PFire23]

REAL POPSICLES yuuuuuummmmmm. Hey, remember when tv dinners were kinda a treat, not just a convenience food, not that I'd eat them now, but when you were a kid they were kinda kewl, eating the dessert first hehehehehehe :D

[PFire23]

I was looking for jokes for my 9 yr old daughter and I ran across this. It just seemed to fit with the "theme" of the thread ..... so again I share with you all ......

Childhood Of Yore

I want to be a kid again. I want to go back to the time when:

Decisions were made by going "eeny-meeny-miney-mo."

Mistakes were corrected by simply exclaiming, "do over!"

"Race issue" meant arguing about who ran the fastest.

Money issues were handled by whoever was the banker in Monopoly.

Catching the fireflies could happily occupy an entire evening.

It wasn't odd to have two or three "best" friends.

Being old referred to anyone over 20.

The net on a tennis court was the perfect height to play volleyball and rules didn't matter.

The worst thing you could catch from the opposite sex was cooties.

It was magic when dad would "remove" his thumb.

It was unbelievable that dodgeball wasn't an Olympic event.

Having a weapon in school meant being caught with a slingshot.

Nobody was prettier than Mom.

Scrapes and bruises were kissed and made better.

It was a big deal to finally be tall enough to ride the "big people" rides at the amusement park.

Getting a foot of snow was a dream come true.

Abilities were discovered because of a "double-dog-dare."

Saturday morning cartoons weren't 30-minute ads for action figures.

No shopping trip was complete unless a new toy was brought home.

"Oly-oly-oxen-free" made perfect sense.

Spinning around, getting dizzy and falling down was cause for giggles.

The worst embarrassment was being picked last for a team.

War was a card game.

Water balloons were the ultimate weapon.

Baseball cards in the spokes transformed any bike into a motorcycle.

Taking drugs meant orange-flavored chewable aspirin.

Ice cream was considered a basic food group.

:D

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Saturday Am cartoons!

The Jetsons were the best. Does anybody remember Davey and Goliath?

Baseball cards were sold in packs of 5 with a flat stick of stale bubble gum. We didn't give a rat's butt about anybody's rookie card. We traded them as a commodity and wouldn't have dreamed of selling your cards. Did you ever stop to think how much $ you ran through the spokes of that bike?

Do you remember the Good Humor man? How about almost having a heart attack begging your mother for that 15 cents to buy that stupid "rocket"? It was a real treat to get the real expensive one like a Chocolate Eclair.

How about when they didn't have rules that a kid had to give everybody in the class a Valentine Card? You picked out your best friends and the prettiest girls and gave them a card and to hell with the rest. Popular kids got tons and some others got next to nothing.

Is everybody stumped on buck-buck?

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Cats-cradle

Red Rover .... how the hell does that go????

Pin the tail on the donkey!

"Its raining, its pouring the old man is snoring"!!!!!!!

Mom putting a dime or quarter in your piece of birthday cake on your birthday!

Double Bubble

Pixie Sticks

Slinkies

Eating a whole package of SweetTarts at the movie!

How come nobody else wants to come out and play???? Jenn hurry and wake up LOL!

[E40FDNYL35]

To continue what GeorgeWendtCFI started.
I remember going to the movies all day long for five bucks with my friends. In the summer playing stickball. Being out with my friends till the street lights came on. Walking to school (over a mile away). Hitchhiking to Jones Beach. American Flags being put up in the morning and taken down at dusk. Parents understood you keep an eye out for mine and I will do the same, (no questions asked). And you know something, I'm not that old....:cool:

[fflynn17]

My favorite game........Of course I was the biggest kid on the block, I always got picked first for that one!!

How you played: You chose up sides, paced off 10 or 15 paces, faced off as if at the OK corral locked arms together. .....Whichever team was first (I don't know how we picked) would yell "Red Rover, Red Rover, let "Jimmy" come over!! "Jimmy" then would run, full speed at the other team and CRASH into the arms of whoever he felt to be the weakest!! If he got through, I think he chose one of that team to come to his team, if he didn't get through he had to join the opposition......

No one broke any bones, or got hurt more that the occasional bruise (except the "sissies") no one sued.........

I remember playing goalie for my older brother on the pond down the street!! There was this big convent with a couple of great hills, we used to sled down REALLY fast.....I miss winter as a kid!!!

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Ray are you calling Jenn and me OLD???? :eek:

OMG thanks Lynn ..... too funny! :D :D

[RspctFrmCalgary]

I JUST got this email again a minute ago! How fitting!

Its amazing what a difference 30 Years makes

1972: Long hair
2002: Longing for hair

1972: The perfect high
2002: The perfect high yield mutual fund

1972: KEG
2002: EKG

1972: Acid rock
2002: Acid reflux

1972: Moving to California because it's cool
2002: Moving to California because it's warm

1972: Growing pot
2002: Growing pot belly

1972: Trying to look like Marlon Brando or Liz Taylor
2002: Trying NOT to look like Marlon Brando or Liz Taylor

1972: Seeds and stems
2002: Roughage

1972: Killer weed
2002: Weed killer

1972: Hoping for a BMW
2002: Hoping for a BM

1972: The Grateful Dead
2002: Dr. Kevorkian

1972: Going to a new, hip joint
2002: Receiving a new hip joint

1972: Rolling Stones
2002: Kidney Stones

1972: Being called into the principal's office
2002: Calling the principal's office

1972: Screw the system
2002: Upgrade the system

1972: Disco
2002: Costco

1972: Parents begging you to get your hair cut
2002: Children begging you to get their heads shaved

1972: Passing the drivers' test
2002: Passing the vision test

1972: Whatever
2002: Depends

Just in case you weren't feeling too old with that, this will certainly change things. Each year the staff at Beloit College in
Wisconsin puts together a list to try to give the faculty a sense of the mindset of this year's incoming freshmen. Here's this
year's list:

The people who are starting college in 2002 across the nation were
born in 1983.

They are too young to remember the space shuttle blowing up.

Their lifetime has always included AIDS.

Bottle caps have always been screw off and plastic.

The CD was introduced the year they were born.

They have always had an answering machine.

They have always had cable.

They cannot fathom not having a remote control.

Jay Leno has always been on the Tonight Show.

Popcorn has always been cooked in the microwave.

They never took a swim and thought about Jaws.

They can't imagine what hard contact lenses are.

They don't know who Mork was or where he was from.

They never heard: "Where's the Beef?", "I'd walk a mile for a Camel", or "de plane Boss, de plane".

They do not care who shot J.R. and have no idea who J.R. even is.

McDonald's never came in Styrofoam containers.

They don't have a clue how to use a typewriter.

Do you feel old yet? Pass this on to the other old fogies in your
life.

****

OK here's another one .... ROTARY PHONES, big heavy hard to dial!

[PFire23]

The CD was introduced the year they were born.

LMAO, my son was just asking me about "records" and record players. He is fascinated with the "vinyl disks" and wants a record player for his birthday.

I also find it funny how kids today are "discovering" bands, such as KISS, and are so totally flabbergasted that Mom and Dad also grew up listening to their tunes. He almost falls over in shock when I know the words to "his" songs!

I giggle when he asks me questions like ..... "Mom were you alive when ....." I am not that old, I'm only 34, yet so many of the things we've discussed seem like they were a lifetime ago.

George: I loooooooooove the Jetson's *singing*meet George Jetson....... Jane ..... his wife.... LOL ..... Remember Fat Albert!!!!! I always HAD to watch that on Saturday mornings, LOL, my son asked me if I "had" Fat Albert when I was little so I looked at him and did the "Hey, Hey Hey .... it's Faaaaaaaaaat Albert", he just looked at me like I'd grown 3 heads. Hehehehe.

Next.....

[EMTfarmer]

Great thread! Sure brings back some memories. For a country kid a few are: wading in the creek and then pulling off leeches:mad: , riding my horse at a full gallop and never thinking that there could be some obstacle like a tree branch or fence post coming up to knock me silly:eek: , rubberband windup wooden toy airplanes:D .

Thanks guys for the memories!

[PFire23]

I remember pulling icky leeches off too, and riding bareback, doubled up on a horse *sigh* My treehouse that I had as a kid, that overlooked the creek in our back yard. Teeheehee, my poor lil brother, I made him stand at the treehouse window once and pee to see if he could "make the creek". I remember spending lazy days catching tadpoles. I remember those toy airplanes too!!!! Remember penny candies at the corner store, and if you were a regular, the lady would give you a lil bag of candies for nothing when you came in with your mom?

Remember when playing "doctor" was a rite of passage and not a cause for alarm and a trip to the therapist :rolleyes:

[fflynn17]

......I still have the first "records" I ever bought, they were "BTO" and "Bad Company". When I discovered cassettes I bought these same ones in cassettes......when I discovered CD's, I bought the same ones, just as a "memorial" to when I was a kid. The records are probably worth some $ now!!!

My first stereo had an 8-track on it, I wish I had some of those around, I know they would be worth money!!

Another thing I wish I had around were all the 45's I used to have!!!

I remember bringing home tadpoles!!!! Mom wondered why I was so much different than her other daughter, who would play with dolls and not come home all dirty and with "disgusting" things for her to find a jar for!!!!

I don't think I was ever successful in keeping a tadpole until it turned into a frog........

[RxFire]

Ahh yes, saturday morning... getting up at like 6am to start the marathon. Wiley E. Coyote getting blown to bits, or ventilated like cheese cloth by a machine gun, all in vain efforts to get the roadrunner. Anvils falling from the sky, rockets blowning him up... ahh the good ol days. Now it's all edited out for fear of being too violent?? Yet kids have all their high graphic video games. What ever happened to 25¢ pinball?

On the guns....

I grew up with stories of an uncle I never met being accidently killed by a friend playing with a gun at age 13... my parents never glossed that over. Real guns were not toys and not to be played with, ever, unless an adult was there - period!

Is handing out toy guns outside a school to make a statement right? NO!

But yet it isn't right that you draw a picture of a gun and you are expelled... where's that kid going now? On the streets?? oh, But he's out of the school, and therefore now school is safe. What ever happened to teachers telling the kids "nice picture, but that guns are not toys, and if you find one, tell a grown-up?" or along those lines? You can't have a pocket knife or you'll be expelled also, but what about the girls and fingernail files?? Now if you bring a nail file into the airport, you'll be asked to check it into your luggage.

Where is this country headed???? :confused:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Buck-buck and Fat Albert go together. It's very similar to Red Rover. One team lines up with one guy holding on to a flagpole, parking meter, basketball hoop ost, whatever. The rest of the team lines up behind him, each one bent over holding the waist of the kid in front of him.

The other team lines up and runs at the line and vaults himself onto the bent over guys. The object was to see how many guys you could hold up until the chain broke. That's wht Fat Albert was so valuable in Buck-buck. I think this bit was on Bill Cosby's first album back in like 1968. Oh yeah, I got two days in-school suspension for playing that game...after a kid broke his arm.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I also find it funny how kids today are "discovering" bands, such as KISS, and are so totally flabbergasted that Mom and Dad also grew up listening to their tunes. He almost falls over in shock when I know the words to "his" songs!

How about Aerosmith? I saw them in concert at a high school gym in 1975 when I was in MA on an exchange trip. Or Santana? When was "Evil Ways" out, like 1974? These kids!

[DocLaw]

Stroll down memory lane? Not quite how this thread started.

Lawyer, sure enough. Which side of the track? Both sides. Currently one of the best criminal defense attorneys in this area, but I am not allowed by our state law to advertise that.

As to was I ever an officer? You could have read my whole post there and maybe, just maybe, guess that I was. Not too many defense lawyers I know out there who pick up commendations for disarming people. They just don't seem to get themselves put in those situations.

Buddy, in the past, you have jumped all over people for not reading the whole post or getting the gist of what you are saying. Me thinks the kettle has just called the pot black.

What I was railing against was the total lack of personal responsibility that our country is gravitating to. We uneducate the kids and expect them to be smart? We allow the blame to be shifted to inanimate objects instead of the person using the inanimate object. We overlook that a person is responsible for their own conduct. It does not matter who you are. Shift the blame and you become part of the problem. A cop that shoots first and asks questions later is a problem. A suspect that runs is a problem. A guy that gets filled full of holes by cops who is not shooting back is inexcusable murder. (I saw a reference to Diallo in another post - sorry, if I did not spell the fellow's name correctly, in the midwest this was a non-story, proving that news is currently only important if it comes from where you live. (Can anybody tell me the name of the Leader of Afghanistan?))

However, at the moment, I am not mad, just sort of sad. Sad that the meaning of my slightly-raving post was lost by one of the best forum posters here. I know if he missed it, many did.

Now, I saw mention in this thread about real popsicles. I think I have one here. Sounds like just the thing right about now.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[iceman4442]

Thank you, George, for posting a reply in much subtler terms than I was considering regarding the post about cops should be able to recognize whether a gun is real or a toy; I will now not rant on that! I've been one for almost 20 years, and am a firearms and use of force instructor, and have been involved in many cases involving real guns and toy guns. (For reference: they are very hard to tell apart in less than ideal light and slightly high stress levels.)

One more twist, some of the people who shouldn't have guns (AKA Bad Guys) have occasionally been spray painting real guns bright colors. Would that be enough to make a cop hesitate and wonder if it's a toy? Hasn't gotten anyone shot yet that I'm aware of, but could easily.

The rest of this thread is absolutely great! :D (Or really, really sad, depending on how you look at it! :( )

[CaptainGonzo]

Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


How about Aerosmith? I saw them in concert at a high school gym in 1975 when I was in MA on an exchange trip. Or Santana? When was "Evil Ways" out, like 1974? These kids!

Aerosmith played at Marlborough High in 1975... my wife was a senior at MHS and was at that show. I saw them in 1974 when they played at the Frolics Ballroom at Salisbury Beach.

"Evil Ways" was from Santana's 1st album, released in 1968.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Aerosmith played at Marlborough High in 1975... my wife was a senior at MHS and was at that show. I saw them in 1974 when they played at the Frolics Ballroom at Salisbury Beach.

Gonzo, I was in North Adams at the time.

1968? You know, I thought it was that far back, but then I second-guessed myself. Thanks.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Criminal defense lawyer. I'm stunned.

What I was railing against was the total lack of personal responsibility that our country is gravitating to. We uneducate the kids and expect them to be smart? We allow the blame to be shifted to inanimate objects instead of the person using the inanimate object. We overlook that a person is responsible for their own conduct. It does not matter who you are. Shift the blame and you become part of the problem. A cop that shoots first and asks questions later is a problem. A suspect that runs is a problem. A guy that gets filled full of holes by cops who is not shooting back is inexcusable murder. (I saw a reference to Diallo in another post - sorry, if I did not spell the fellow's name correctly, in the midwest this was a non-story, proving that news is currently only important if it comes from where you live.

Sorry Doc, I read your whole post. And I was right with you up until you made this irresponsible statement:

Give those kids the toy guns. Any cop who cannot tell a toy gun from a real one, or cannot figure out a way to deal with a situation without shooting first does not deserve to be a cop. (in the dark? Dang it, that's what flashlights and spotlights are for!)

It is then followed up by this gem:
A guy that gets filled full of holes by cops who is not shooting back is inexcusable murder.

So if I get you right, I would have to wait for the bad guy to actually begin shooting before I can use deadly force?

Well, buddy, there isn't one police academy in the world that teaches that. There isn't one use of force expert in the world (even the whores) who wold advocate that. A police officers objective is the same as a fire fighters...go home in the same condition you came to work in. If someone points a weapon at me, I have less than a second to analyze whether or not that object in the individual's hand is a weapon. I then have a fraction of that time to react. I am not going to wait until the bad guy starts shooting at me to make my decision to use deadly force. If he points a toy gun at me, he wants me to think he has a real one, so the objective is the same.

BTW, I have never fired my weapon in the line of duty and pray daily that I never have to. I have only a short amount of time until I retire and I really hope to go out with a perfect record.

We are, however, in total agreement that a police officer who uses deadly force against an unarmed person, who shoots someone in the back (in NJ, we are no longer allowed to fire on an escaped felon unless they present an imminent threat) or who is otherwise defenseless could be guilty of murder. There are bad cops out there and there are cops who exercise poor judgement.

Your disarming a man with a shotgun is only mildly relevant to this discussion. However, I am glad that you were not injured.

[CollegeBuff]

A suspect in Norton, MA was shot 4 times by an officer as he and the suspect wrestled on the ground for control of the officer's weapon.

Somehow that is "excessive force" according to the suspect's family.

My personal favorite is the ongoing lawsuit against the City of Providence due to the shooting death of Sgt. (posthumous) Cornell Young Jr, while off-duty by two fellow officers who mistook him for a suspect when he ran towards them with his personal weapon drawn as the uniformed officers were breaking up a fight that already involved a knife. Sgt. Young's mother seems to think his death was a race-motivated murder- Young was black, the two officers were white. Naturally, the gun in his hand and his reported failure to heed their orders to stop had nothing to do with it, black white or purple with green pokadots. :rolleyes:

[Dalmatian90]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A guy that gets filled full of holes by cops who is not shooting back is inexcusable murder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So if I get you right, I would have to wait for the bad guy to actually begin shooting before I can use deadly force?


I'm not sure that was the point of that George...

If you're down and not moving and still getting shot full of holes because of a combination of cops with adrenaline flowing & training to rapidly fire their weapons, something may be wrong with this picture.

[protomkv]

with bits of wood, cries of "bang Bang" your dead, no im not you missed etc would reverberate through the street. very few cars to worry about (only three families in my street owned a car in 1946). We actually tied one "victim" to the stake and were threatening to light the fire, result one snivelling kid who was scared Sh**less. During the summer school holidays which seemed to go on forever but were in reality only six weeks, we were in the street from about 9 am until the sun went down around 9 pm. just one break when the streets were empty of kids was at 6.45 pm, each evening when the strains of the theme tune for "Dick Barton, special agent" wafted on the evening breeze. Fifteen minutes later the evening news came on the radio, and once more the streets were filled with kids. In 1946, we only had a radio, (and that worked with lead acid batteries that had to be taken to the Radio shop to be recharged. No TV and records were played on a wind up gramophone, and the disks were 78rpm, and shattered if dropped. They sure were some happy times. One of the tricks we got up to was knocking on doors and running away before the occupier could get to the door, Reading DkBLRAMS post on the name of the leader of Afghanistan really brought tears (of Laughter) to my eyes, in the UK the slang term for a toilet is The KHAZI.