Kutztown or Quitstown???

[NJFFSA16]

Taking it to the extreme.....over a light issue.

KUTZTOWN, Pa. (AP) - A volunteer fire squad that directs traffic
in emergencies quit en masse when its chief was prohibited from
using a red light and siren.
Kutztown Fire Police members said Fire Company Chief Robert
Hauck's refusal to grant Lt. Gregory Heid authority to use the
light and siren confirmed suspicions they weren't being taken
seriously.
"There have been instances when people felt slighted,
ridiculed," said Dick Diehm, fire police captain. "I just got to
the point where my head is softer than a brick wall."
Fire police, widely used in rural areas, are volunteers who
assist with traffic and crowd control at emergencies and special
events. They respond to fires, accidents and other calls.
Heid was allowed to flash a blue light, but Fire Police members
said that wasn't good enough because blue doesn't command the same
respect as red or let Heid run red traffic lights.

[Bones42]

I used to go to college there and was also a member for a short while and the FD was a very professional group. Bob Hauck is a very level headed guy and I doubt very much that he would do something like this just to spite a guy. The area they covered had a total of maybe 7 stop lights. Not that it matters, but I'll stand up for Bob on this one.

[J.B. Books]

Red lights command respect?
I think the Captain in question is taking the Fire'Police' title
a little too far,What are they gonna want next guns?:rolleyes:
If his complaint is Red lights let him run thru traffic signals
and have people pull over for him,Thats a pretty weak argument.

[FlyingKiwi]

At least they now have the chance to recruit realistic members.

7 stop lights is that important? no way.

[PAVolunteer]

Has it ever been absolutely essential, a life or death situation, anywhere in the world, where the situation was such a dire emergency, that it necessitated the fire police to be able to go through stop lights to get there? Has anyone ever died because the fire police did not get there in time?

Believe me, I'm all for fire police, they are a big help, but come on ...

Stay Safe

[Devilfyter]

What are "FirePolice" anyway? Don't they have a police force in Kutztown Pa. to direct traffic? And 7 stoplights in the whole town, sounds like there is a definite need for the firepolice to have red lights on their car's. GIMME A BREAK. Tell these guys to grow up, it is 2002, not 1952.

[res7cue]

And people wonder why we get a bad rap !!!

[Dalmatian90]

In several of the Northeastern states areas protected by volunteer fire departments typically have the FD in charge of traffic/scene control. These are PA, NY, NJ, DE, and CT*. (Did I miss any?)

I believe many parts of those states, especially PA/NY/CT, are similiar in having relatively light rural & small town police protection. Until a few years ago we only had one Trooper respond to accidents, unless some died or the Trooper was involved. One Trooper, showing up 5, 10, 20 minutes after the FD isn't going to do much for traffic. Troopers don't routinely handle fire calls at all, unless they're bored and in the area.

Those five states tended to copy each other (actually, I think "copy New York") in regards to their state statutes, so they all share quirks like Fire-Police and blue lights for vollie POVs.


* -- not a small block of states by any measure, that's 42,000,000 people or about 15% of the U.S. population

[dragonfyre]

The article posted didn't have the Chief's quote that he didn't give the red light out due to the Lt's driving habits, which are not the best.

The Reading Eagle had the article in Saturday's paper and was a lot more complete.

[hwoods]

Add Maryland to the list, at least the rural parts. My experience has been limited to encountering a few of these folks while traveling, since our part of the state doesn't use them. Those that I've met have mostly been gentlemen who, for whatever reason, no longer ride the apparatus, but have a continuing desire to help out in any way that they can. Most jurisdictions require training in the type of work that these folks will be doing, and the VFD management and the county sheriff's office provide oversight. Stay Safe....

[Devilfyter]

How much traffic can there be in a town that only has 7 traffic lights? A cab ride from one end of the town to the other can't cost much more than a dollar.

[Will24]

I have the privledge of sharing a county with these jokers :rolleyes:

Oh well, berks company 24 has ZERO stop lights and our fire police are DEFINITELY a helpful group, parts of PA Rt. 10 and 82 both run through our first due, and at the right times traffic is EXTREMELY heavy, especially when there is a national even at Maple Grove Raceway


-Will

[RES13CUE]

Someone Else Said it....Red Lights Command More Respect on the Road ? Are you kidding me ? Red/Blue/Green...Whats the fu**ing Diffrence ? Fire-Police Members Quit because they can't have a Red Light....Who Cares. Let 'em Quit who needs'em. What that town needs is Fire-Police that care more aboutdoing the actual job than worrying about what kind of lights they can use...What a bunch of childish behavior

[CollegeBuff]

Originally posted by Dalmatian90
In several of the Northeastern states areas protected by volunteer fire departments typically have the FD in charge of traffic/scene control. These are PA, NY, NJ, DE, and CT*. (Did I miss any?) [/i]

I don't know if its the law, but in RI the police (who even in our rural areas seem to be much populous than your side of the line Matt, for whatever reason) seem to have no qualms about shutting down roads, offramps, and even major interstates for as long as the incident and any investigation takes.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Gotta agree with 13...let them quit.

The only person with a REAL problem is the poor person who is the victim. I operate with a red light on my unmarked all the time. It gets no "respect" at all ever. Most times, it is easier and faster to drive to the job cold (no lights, no sirens).

[Adze39]

Originally posted by Devilfyter
How much traffic can there be in a town that only has 7 traffic lights? A cab ride from one end of the town to the other can't cost much more than a dollar.

You'd be surprised. I think you are assuming that all 7 are on one road, like a small town Main St. Don't forget these lights might be spread out miles over town. And some of them might be on a heavily travelled state highway.

[Gooch26]

I have to agree with the people that have said these guys must be taking the police part of fire police too seriously. Don't get me wrong, I'm a former fire police officer myself and have been glad to have them on numerous scenes, but come on guys let's get serious here. This is kids stuff, I have seen many times where a fire police officer has over stepped their authority. They are not cops, but you can't prove that by some of them. I seen some of them try to make arrest, or want to issue citations. I even seen them stop and attempt to turn away responding emergency vehicles. Not cool! Now as far as the chief not wanting the fire police Lt. to have a red light and siren, I see no problem with that. Untimately he is the resposible party and if he doesn't think the the LT can handle the resposibility, so be it! After all, if the FP LT. get's in a wreck, do you really think the chief's not going to be named in the suit for letting him use it? I have witnessed a similar situation with a FP Capt., he runs lights and sirens to almost all of the calls for his company and has nearly been involved in several accidents, do you really want a situation like this for your company? Not me, that's why I'm glad in my company at least, the chief has final say on whether you get to use any lights at all let alone red with a siren. Now as far as the whole squad quitting, come on guys!!!!! Talk about childish, nothing like taking your ball and going home when you don't get what you want. They said they wanted to be taken seriously and that they weren't getting the respect they thought they deserved. Well if they are such an essential part, then how can they shirk (yes, I said shirk) their resposibilities so easily??? If their response is so vital, then how could they endanger the public and the other members of their fire company by not responding? Seems to me these guys don't take themselves very serious either. Otherwise they wouldn't have taken the easy way out by quiting, it doesn't take any guts at all to quit, but it shows real courage to stay and face problems and work toward a solution. I guess to sum it up, shame on you guys!
Randall E. Guntrum FF/E.M.T.
If lights, sirens, and airhorns do not attract the attention of a driver, he or she is too drunk to be assisted by a paint scheme.

[NJFFSA16]

Resident population of approximately 5,300 persons and a transient student population of 7,000.

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Sounds like sour grapes. "We're taking our ball and going home."

To the Fire Police of Kutztown, PA...my thoughts:

Get a grip on reality. The fire service does not revolve around you. Grow up. Act like adults, not like kids playing in the sandbox.

You oughta be ashamed of yourselves!

[Bones42]

I think you are assuming that all 7 are on one road Actually, they are. They start at the eastern end of town and end at the western end (in the college area). It is less than 5 miles from one end to the other. The road is the main road through town, one lane each direction. The streets that cross them are also one lane each direction. Kutztown FD does cover a large are, but most of it is farmland. They do cover a section of Route 78 also but from the calls that I ran, traffic on that was handled by State Police. Things might have changed in the 10 years since I lived out there, but I have been back and driven through since then. Back then, the Fire Police were very helpful and they probably still are(were). Can't remember anyone thinking of them in any degrading or lesser ways.

[Adze39]

What I meant was one short road (about a mile or less). That's why I said "like a small town Main St".

Anywho...whether they have 7 lights or 700 lights, I don't see why a Fire Police officer, let alone regular member, needs to have a red light and siren.

Side Note: In CT, Fire Police can display red lights...but only when the vehicle is not in motion aka parked.

[PAVolunteer]

Originally posted by Devilfyter
How much traffic can there be in a town that only has 7 traffic lights? A cab ride from one end of the town to the other can't cost much more than a dollar.
It doesn't matter. How may firemen are killed every year by a passing car while on the scene. How many of these scenes had traffic being directed by fire police? Would any of these have been avoided if there were fire police directing traffic? It only takes one car. Law enforcement officers have more responsibilities than directing traffic. If the fire police can handle that responsibility for them, it helps everyone out - whether it's in Hugetown or Smalltown, USA.

Note that there is still no need for them to have a red light and/or sirem.

Stay Safe

[EastKyFF]

Managed properly, it beats the taters out of ME having to direct traffic. In previous darker days, there was no such thing as having the sheriff's office on the scene. Now we can count on at least one or two deputies showing up to help with traffic. (State police still do the reports on most, if there are injuries.)

The fire police situation sounds a little like the rescue squad situation we have in Kentucky. The squads are not as tightly regulated as FD's, so there are some out there that are knuckleheads. Those that are good have become so by their own initiative. Sounds just like the fire police.

[tshayes]

Fire Police near my department all use a blue light and are extremely quick in getting the road bloacked off. Why does the fire police need to get there as quick as the chief just to shut downa a road which can be acomplished with a blue light by the time the fire truck rolls out. No need to have a siren when they are going to go to a seen and do nothing. I like the fire police and think that they are great. They shut down the road for us and keep us safe. They dont need a red light because they are not going to go and size up the scene all they are doing is shutting down the road and blocking the right of way to only emergency personel. This is more rediculus than a junior firefighter saying he must have a blue light so he can get to the station quicker so he can sit and wait till they get more people to take the second due piece because he is not allowed to run the first due.