Juniors With Blue Lights

[OFD95]

What is your department's policy in terms of allowing junior members to have blue lights?

[e33]

There is no need for them to have warning lights. Juniors, much the same as probationary members should not be afforded the opportunity to possess and operate lights. They need to spend more time learning the jobs than worrying about lights. It also may be a liability issue for the dept.

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The opinions and views expressed herin are solely mine and not on the behalf of any department or organization I belong to.

[Bob Snyder]

We don't have a policy (we should), but I'm with e33 100% on this one.

[NRFR/explorer]

`

[This message has been edited by NRFR/explorer (edited January 13, 2000).]

[NRFR/explorer]

Our post does not allow red lights to be used by an explorer, unless you have a parent who is on the same fire dept., responding to the call with the parent in the passaenger seat. But e33 is right. Explorers do not need lights, because it is not necessary they be responding to the call. ALso, what FD has blue lights for their apperatous? I have thought it was always red, white and orange?
Joe, 16
NRFR, explorer

[This message has been edited by NRFR/explorer (edited January 13, 2000).]

[OFD95]

Well NRFR/explorer, I am not sure about other states, but in NJ volunteers respond in personal vehicles using blue lights, not red (only on apparatus). On another note, it is necessary that juniors (we are not BSA affliated) DO respond to calls. They make up a vital support team on the fireground as well as an extra pair of hands and eyes!

[Romania]

I have to agree with e33 100%. As for aparatus lighting, we have blue lights on our units, as well as red, white and amber.

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Alan Romania, CEP
romania@uswest.net
IAFF Local 3449

My Opinions do not reflect the opnions of the IAFF or Local 3449.

[BigBoss]

We use red lights on both our POV's and apparatus. Blue is exclusive to law enforcement only in Vermont.

Our explorers are not allowed to use red lights responding to the station when there is a call unless of course their parent who is a member is in the vehicle with them and is responding. If an explorer's parent is not a member of the dept, he or she is not allowed to have a red light in the car at any time period. To have a red light a permit is required that is issued by DMV and the application for the permit must be signed by a chief officer of the department, permits are NOT signed for explorers.

[APG1]

Explorers. Blue lights.

Ha. Ha.

No way.

Can we say "Lawsuit"? http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/wink.gif

[adamsville103]

Although I am not a jr fireman i feel that jr's should be able to have and use red lights in there vehicles because there are people out there who poke along. SO i feel that it is nessary in some cases that they have them. I agree with OFD95

[Animal]

Our Dept.'s policy says that juniors are allowed to operate warning lights in their vehicles. We don't have an "explorer" post, and I'm not really familiar with what explorers do and don't do, etc. The main reason juniors are allowed to run lights (other than we have a great bunch of juniors, who don't abuse the privlige) is that while they may not be structurally qualified, most of them have completed some amoutn of training. Most are EMTs, and some are certified in vehicle extrication, wildland firefighting, etc. Jr.s are a huge assest to the department (all 6 companies have at least 1 junior), and we think that as long as they don't abuse them, they should be afforded the same privliges as regular members.

Just a note, a junior here is a person 16 or 17, who has been on the department for less than one year. even after completeing FF I, EMT, etc., they're still considered juniors until they hit 1 year of membership, or 18 years of age, whichever comes first.

[NRFR/explorer]

Well said Animal!

Joe,
NRFR, explorer
MFD

[NMFD33]

Most people in this post are getting Explorer s and Juniors mixed up. around here they are 2 seperate things and explorers do not respond to calls. Where as Juniors respond, have gear, and ride the apparatus. No where in OFD's original post does it say anything about Explorers. He was refering to Junior F/F's. With my Fire dept im not allowed to blue light to calls, but i am for the ambulance corps.

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Chris Kerrigan
XMetalSxeX@aol.com
-Junior Fire Fighter
NMFD Co.2 Tower/Rescue-31 Engine-33
-EMT-B
NMVAC 318 & 319
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[NRFR/explorer]

Chris,
I have to disagree with you and say that Jr. Firefighters and Explorers are quite the same. Explorers do respond to calls and do have turnout gear. Both are programs for young adults/adults to prepare them or train the for being a real firefighter. The difference I see is that explorers is more of a learning experience and Jr's is just like an appentice on the FD. For lights, I kinda think it's your Deptpartments call. They should be the one's to decide whether or not your responsible to have and work emergency lighting.
Joe, 16
NRFR, explorer
MFD, Roger's Rangers-EMS

[NMFD33]

In NJ in order to be a Junior F/F you must be 16. Explorers which are not Juniors MAY NOT "Respond" to the fire house or anything in that fashion. If your 15 or under you cant by law get on the truck for a call. No where in OFD95's original post in this topic did he say anything about Explorers, granted his town dosent have a post. Nevertheless they have a similiar program called Cadets which has the soverignity from the BSA. Juniors and Explorers are not the same when Juniors can ride the truck, set up equipment, change SCBA's, etc...Explorers in NJ for the most part arent permited to do more than watch from a safe distance. Whereas in NJ the age to drive is 17 your a junior by than and that status overrides the explorer status for fire calls.

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
-Junior Fire Fighter
NMFD Co.2 Tower/Rescue-31 Engine-33
-EMT-B
NMVAC 318 & 319
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[Borlan34]

How do you expect juniors and probies to learn if they can't get to calls because they are stuck in traffic? And there is a BIG difference between Explorers and juniors in NJ. Some states might be different. The only problem is if someone abuses the priviliage of warning lights which can be done at any age. By the way, OFD95....if Oradell is anything like New Milford don't hold your breath for blue lights.

-Mike

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KEEP IT SAFE
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

[Fireguy2000]

Sorry but no. there isnt any way a Jr. should have lights. Granted you want him to get there fast but hear this. You have a 16 year old who just gets his lisence and is all pumped. Now throw lights and siren on his car and he is unstopable. This is where someone is gonna get hurt. Not at the fire. Sorry but nope no way should you have lights on your car. Not till your at least 18 and have some experience at not only fires but with cars!

[Fireguy2000]

Sorry but no. there isnt any way a Jr. should have lights. Granted you want him to get there fast but hear this. You have a 16 year old who just gets his lisence and is all pumped. Now throw lights and siren on his car and he is unstopable. This is where someone is gonna get hurt. Not at the fire. Sorry but nope no way should you have lights on your car. Not till your at least 18 and have some experience at not only fires but with cars!

[Fireguy2000]

Sorry but no. there isnt any way a Jr. should have lights. Granted you want him to get there fast but hear this. You have a 16 year old who just gets his lisence and is all pumped. Now throw lights and siren on his car and he is unstopable. This is where someone is gonna get hurt. Not at the fire. Sorry but nope no way should you have lights on your car. Not till your at least 18 and have some experience at not only fires but with cars!

[NFPD206]

I’m sorry and I don’t wish to offend anyone but Juniors and Explorer’s should not be allowed to drive a vehicle in an emergency capacity. First in our state you get your license at age 16. Now I know how I drove when I was 16 actually most of my teenage years. Now I was what we call a Cadet and at that time, I wanted to run lights and sirens on my car also. However, I did not get to. Do we really want someone who does not have any experience in driving running code. Our department does not allow it until you are of the age of 21. Police officers for the most part have to be trained in emergency driving. So, do our firefighters. Cadet’s run calls if they are at the station, they can come from home if we get a call but they must obey all traffic laws. I know how you feel, but in time, you will get too. I wish you the best of luck and stick with it.

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Captain Jeremy Whitehill
Nixa Fire Protection District
Nixa, MO

[FF41]

Ok- i see a lot of confusion here- In NJ, many members are allowed to use blue lights. Now these lights do not allow the user to speed, or go through traffic lights- although they usually do. A blue light is just basically a couteousy(sp) thing. For instance, at the main interesction in town, congestion occurs as the school lets out, and there is a crossing guard who controls the lights. If he doesnt recognize you as one who is responding, it could take 10-15 minutes to get through this intersection. Seeing the blue light, he will direct traffic so as to let you through. No member except cheifs are allowed to use sirens, and again, the blue lights may give a little leniency with the law, I believe that they do not entitle the driver to respond by breaking laws. In addition, I am an EMT as well as a Junior Fire Fighter. Ny postion with EMS is the same as any other EMT, except I cannot drive the ambulance. So in an area were during the day, it is tough to get the second or third EMT on an ambulance, are you willing to sacrifice that? I blieve that all members who respond WHATSOEVER should be required to take a defensive driving course. I agree with OFD95.

[OCFireEXP]

in CA you cant go code 3 in your POV. its the law. even if we could, i dont see a need for a junior or a probie to have the authority to run lights and sirens because he has a first aid kit, and set of turnouts. no point.

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Joe Nassetta

-"I run through the gates of hell so you don't have to."

[NMFD33]

in nj no one has the right to run lights with a blue light...but most people do anyway. granted i probrably drive safer with my lights on than i do when im normaly driving for the sole fact that im screwed if anything happens.

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
<>Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
<>EMT-B-NMVAC
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[Haligan125]

I know that when I was a Junior Firefighter, I was dying to have a red light, in maine we have red, however, I now look back and see how stupid that would have been. Junior firefighters are not experienced enough when it comes to driving. That why insurance company charge through the nose. I can see the arguments. Juniors provide a support function. But support can wait. Juniors are EMT's as well. But really, what good is that without a medic (I am an EMT as well so I am not bashing Bandaid mechanics) BLS is only as good as the ALS backing it up. These are my reasons. Beside it Junior are only juniors for 2-4 years than they can get a light. I am 20, and I barely run mine now.
That is my opinon

[FF41]

Halligan,
here in NJ, medics run out of the hospitals. One of the worst calls I have been on as an EMT was without medics because the were all tied up with other runs. A blue light is a curteousy, and shouldn't be used as red light and siren. If your the one in arrest, and its possibly 15 minutes until medics arrive, depending on their location, wouldn't you say thats a long time to wait seeing as the ambulanc is sitting on the apron waiting for another crew member to roll?

[dj_shaddy]

i think jr.firemen should be able to have a blue light because they are the same as a fireman...

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dj_shaddy

[JR95]

DJ SHADDY,

I would reconsider what you think a junior and a regular FF are. They are not the same.

[dj_shaddy]

they are in some ways i don't see any not the same. they are a little = at least.

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dj_shaddy

[Quint1Medic]

Junior firefighters, or Explorers, or whatever you want to call them, are all doing the same thing-trying to get experience and exposure to firefighting. As far as I'm aware, they are, by definition, younger than 21. All the points that have been brought up-liability, inexperience with driving, lack of maturity (sorry, guys-there IS a big difference between 19 and 25) are valid, and it looks like most everyone agrees...Nobody under the age of 21 needs to be driving a POV with a squirrel light! It's too tempting to drive like a lunatic. Besides, is driving really that big a part of it? Naturally, it's no fun to hear that you can't drive-but it's a lot better to make it to the age where you can, than to die in an accident on the way to a call. If you're worried about missing fires, hang out at the station. Wash trucks. Help maintain the equipment. Read IFSTA manuals. That way, when the Big One comes in, you'll be a lot more ready than somebody that's just sitting at home with his car keys in his hand.

[NMFD33]

in new jersey explorers and juniors are two different things all together. explorers fall under BSA and juniors under the dept.

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Post Explorer 402
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[This message has been edited by NMFD33 (edited February 28, 2000).]

[BriTHFD]

In our town, Juniors (Cadets) do not have lights, nor should they. Our Cadet program is made up of high school kids that are looking for exposure to different aspects of the fire department.

When they turn 16, they are allowed to ride the apparatus to calls (not medical) if their is an empty seat. During CONFIRMED fires, they can be dropped off at the call by a parent/ guardian and report to the bottle changing area for assignment. Our cadets actively participate in our company drills, training, and functions.

Do they need a blue light? NO.

They don't need to make the first piece out (our department does NOT allow them on the first due engine out).

Just my thoughts.

[This message has been edited by BriTHFD (edited February 28, 2000).]

[Capt. Pope]

I have to agree with NRFR/Explorer. They are kind of the same and kind of different. they are different for each state and in some cases, different in each city. Our post is only allowed to go on calls if we are riding-a-long at the station. we can't even leave our homes to go on a call, even if it is a huge 6 alarm fire. I think the idea of having teenagers running around with lights acting like an emergency vehicle is a very bad idea. We aren't even trained to do it. if we were then i would think different, but if you think for one minute that you could not have any training and drive a vehicle with a light or siren, than i would have to strongly disagree.
Capt. Chris Pope
South Davis Fire

[FF SP E1]

Get Lives... Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Pink... Whatever kind of light you plug into your cigarette lighter to give yourselves a "WOODY", It doesn't matter! It's people like you, who feel the need to have a light to feel important, That KILL PEOPLE! Because you know JUST AS WELL AS I DO that not one of you run your "KOJACK" lights also drive the POSTED SPEED LIMITS! So please, when you read tragic stories of how a "FIREMAN", Junior or not, Was speeding to a call with their trusty "FIREBALL" on their dash and hit and killed an innocent person, put yourself in the victims family's shoes... And then Ask yourself.... Do i really need this light?

[NMFD33]

i want a pink light....

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Explorer Post 402
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[FF SP E1]

~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Explorer Post 402

This is what I'm talking about... Attitude... What do the fire lights prove?
If anyone has a GOOD reason why it is so important to have and run fire lights, please tell us what it is.
Hey... Drive safe "CHIEF"

[NRFR/explorer]

I agree with Chris;
Explorers for pink lights!!!!!!!

Joe
p.s. All hail to DJ Shaddy! He sure knows what he talking about! Go find your marbles bud!

[NRFR/explorer]

FF SP 1-
Would you say that same thing to the daughter of man whose is in cardiac arrest and needs drugs addmitted, only availabe from a medic, whose is presently at his house, eating a chesseburger, watching married with children? THat medic needs to have a quick, BUT SAFE route to that mans house. Lights and Sirens can provide this. I agree that explorers shouldn't have lights, but you need to restate you last post.

Joe, 16
NRFR, EMT-W trainee, 2nd Luet explorer
KFD, MFD, Roger's Rangers-EMS

p.s. Let's all not forget to tell DJ Shaddy to go find his marbles!!!!!!

[Haligan125]

FF SP isn't talking about medics with lights and sirens. He is talking about Jr firefighters. They don't need lights. Besides last time I checked, all the medics came with ambulances. Very seldom are there medics on a volunteer service. I can get to a scene a lot qucicker with out a light as well, becasue no one is looking at you. That's my opinion.

[FF SP E1]

You just plain do not understand. Putting on the "SCREAMERS AND BEAMERS" doesnt give ANYONE the right to speed like hell. And that is EXACTLY what everyone with lights do. Trust me! I used to be young like you, and i liked to have lights on my car, and you know why I wanted lights on my car... It's the same reason why you have them...Because i thought it was "cool". And that's the ONLY reason you want them. You don't need them, NOBODY DOES! They DON'T save time, They just scare the hell out of people what you "BLAZE" up behind them and you PISS PEOPLE OFF... The same people that pay taxes... The same taxes that FUND THE FIRE DEPT. Do you think people like funding Fire Departments To begin with! NO! Why do you think we get so little money! And now you want to piss them off all because you want to have a little "fireball" on your dash! Come on.... Please... Just think a little bit. I guess a word that you KIDS should look-up is PROFESSIONALISM. You don't have to be "full-time" to be a professional. And remember this one last thing. YOU CAN'T SAVE EVERYBODY OR EVERYTHING! People do die, houses will burn flat. Get used to it or get out of the service.

[FF SP E1]

NRFR/explorer... WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! I know a LOT of paramedics. And none of them carry a special SUPA DUPA MEDIC KIT around with them all the time like the ones that you seem to be talking about. Paramedics don't walk abound with drugs and needles in their back pocket. And i don't know of any Volunteer Ambulance companies licensed at the basic level who carry a drug kit! Where are you from! And lights and sirens do not equal safety... Do some studying...

[NRFR/explorer]

Chill out guys. I know medics usually aren't on Volunteer squads (although I do know 2 actually). I was just using that as an example. Don't get so uptight. I know explorers shouldn't have light and I agree with you, but your message sounded like you were talking about fire/ems personnel in general. This is an explorer/jr. post where we can voice OUR opinions. Give us a break.

Joe, 16
NRFR, EMT-W trainee, 2nd Luet. explorer
MFD, KFD, Roger's Rogers-EMS

p.s. When I said 'a quick, but SAFE' in my last post I meant by driving safely and not out of control.

[This message has been edited by NRFR/explorer (edited March 06, 2000).]

[NMFD33]

ok so i have a signature with my posts? does coping and pasting it prove anything? i drive safer with my lights on than off. i dont/cant use my lights for Fire calls. im allowed to use them for ambulance calls though. its not like i speed all too much granted i drive a minivan. when it comes to teh Corps im an EMT, not a junior fire fighter that fetches ladders, etc. the pink light comment was a joke...get a sense of humor, everyone on this message board is too uptight and cant calm down when it comes to things...in 3 months when im 18 and a reg member of the FD ill use my lights. but im not stupid and i know i can get myself and the organizations i belong to in a world of crap if i get into an accident or screw around with my lights for fun. its a responsibility and that how I look at at...not an attitude...

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Explorer Post 402
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[FF SP E1]

Ok... you're just not understanding. I really like the junior fire departments and explorer posts, I've been a member of each. I'm just trying to get you to understand that there are more important things that red lights and more important things than the fire dept. Trust me! And I'm not saying that just juniors shouldn't have red lights, I don't understand why anybody has them! They don't help. Most people won't pull over for a fire truck, and they won't pull over for you, because they don't have to! They cause more problems than they solve. You will learn what Ive been talking about very soon. And then you will see what i mean.

[NMFD33]

the funny thing is that people do pull over for me...magic is what i have with my setup. and actually i have offical documents (nj state drivers manual) that states that you must pull over for blue light(thats what vollies use in NJ) i know there are other things more important...thats why its volunteer. i have school and work and friends...

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Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Explorer Post 402
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[FireManL1]

Guys FFSPE1 is right. You can have all the lights you want. But they do not save time. I have a light in my vehicle, but I have also found that it is just as good to go without any lights. I have responded to calls without using a light, and make it in the same time if not faster without. If I am going to be driving faster than normal, I won't use my light. Using this method you will look just like another moron out there on the road speeding along his way. But if you have a light on you are attracting attention from everywhere, you might as well just paint "HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME" on the side of your car. The citizens of the town don't just turn their head and look the other way, even if you are driving a fire engine or a rescue, trust me. FFSPE1 and I started out on the fire department at the same time and we were the same way, always had lights on, but we have both come to realize that they don't make much difference. I don't think that lights help at all, but I especially don't think that juniors should run lights. Nothing against juniors, but I know how juniors react when driving to a call. To put it bluntly there is no reason in the world for a junior to rush to a fire call. When they get there what are they going to do?

[NRFR/explorer]

Whatever. You obviously aren't reading my post, because in every one I said I agreed with you, and said that I AGREE THAT LIGHTS AND EXPLORERS/JR'S DON'T MIX. Anyway who cares. I got better stuff to do than writing about lights. Anyway, take care guys, and be safe!
Joe
NRFR, EMT-W trainee, explorer
MFD, KFD, Roger's Rangers-EMS

[Adam]

i think that a jr fire fighter should be able to have a blue light with permision from his/her town, cornater and fire chief

[Fireman Ry]

It surprises me that junior firefighters think that they SHOULD have and be able to use blue warning lights. In Pennsylvania, junior firefighters are very limited to what they are able to do. The fire department that I run with does not allow junior members to have and/or use blue warning lights. Most of the members there do not even use the blue warning lights themselve because people where I am just ignore them. If the other drivers out ther want to really be a pain, they will get in front of you and drive very slowly. Probationary members are also NOT allowed to have and/or use blue warning lights. I am totally against juniors having blue lights. I know how the junior members feel, because I started out as a junior member, but I am dead set against it.

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Ryan B.

[SFDchief]

I personally feel that jrs. should not be allowed to operate with a warning light. You're not allowed to break the law with it anyway so how much time are you really gonna save?
In my dept. there are enough of regular firefighters that drive like idiots with their lights. I don't think jr need any help.
Please, for the responsible young adults, don't take this the wrong way BUT you are not experianced enough in basic driving to begin with. I see too many times 16-18 yr olds being killed in auto accidents because of inexperiance. I don't feel there should be anything to feed the adrenalin.
Running with a blue light will not save you a considerable amount of time since your not legally allow to break the law.
Is it worth breaking the law and either get a ticket or even worse, an accident? I didn't think so.

[ENGINE25]

I was a junior for two years. Our department doesn't allow junior members to use blue light, and for those two years i was number 2 in the amount of calls run for the year. In most cases a blue light will hurt you more than it helps you,, people see the light and get confused, and then they drive dangerously try to get out of the way. I know when i got my blue light, i used it for everything, no depending on the time of day and traffic, it isn't even worth turning it on, unless you like standing at the firehouse by yourself, because most of the time people won't move for it. and one more thing, the blue light could hurt you when you aren't going to a call. you could be driving down the road and accidentily cut someone off, and if they see the blue light, it means nothing but trouble for both you and your department


my opinions don't reflect the opinions of my department

[FF SP E1]

ENGINE25
SFDchief
Fireman Ry

Gentlemen...
I thank you...

Because you are some of the few who understand the subject of fire lights, How worthless they are, etc...

Now if only we could embed this fact in the head of our Junior and Explorer firefighters the quality of service would SKYROCKET! Because you know as well as i do what an great tool they are to their fire departments. But only if they can SURVIVE the trip to the firehouse...

[FF SP E1]

ENGINE25
SFDchief
Fireman Ry
Haligan125
LadermanL1

Gentlemen...
I thank you...

Because you are some of the few who understand the subject of fire lights, How worthless they are, etc...

Now if only we could embed this fact in the head of our Junior and Explorer firefighters the quality of service would SKYROCKET! Because you know as well as i do what an great tool they are to their fire departments. But only if they can SURVIVE the trip to the firehouse...

[Brian Dunlap]

THERE IS NO REASON FOR JR. FIREFIGHTERS TO HAVE/AND OR USE BLUE LIGHTS. ALTHOUGH YOU ARE ALL VITAL TO THE FIREGROUND OPERATION YOU "GET THERE WHEN YOU GET THERE" IN MY
DEPARTMENT YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO USE BLUE
LIGHTS UNTIL YOU ARE FIREFIGHTER I CERTIFIED
AND OFF SENIOR PROBATION. GET EXPERIENCE BEFORE WORRYING ABOUT BLUE LIGHTS ON YOUR CAR

[evfdjf]

I'm a junior firefighter in my dept. and i agree that we should not have them till at least 18. Unless you have a family member 18 yrs or older in the dept. with you. That is the only time i would think it would be ok!

[SFDchief]

I agree with you evfdjf however ONLY if the adult is driving. Even with a junior firefighter driving with an adult doesn't give you, what I feel is, the necessary experiance driving with a light.
This whole thing is basically the same reason why those who hold a jr drivers license aren't allowed to drive at night.(in NY and other states I'm sure).
In NY you are not PRIVLAGED to have a full drivers license untill you become 18 with a few exceptions. The reason for this is because a lack of experiance.
Having a blue light in a POV (or the applicable color light in your state) is a PRIVLAGE also.
In NY state ANY volunteer firefighter MUST have a blue light card issued by the chief of the dept to use one. The chief can also revoke that card if the privlage is abused.

[Styles]

I'll put in my two cents worth. Explorers should not have any warning lights at all. In my district the only vehicles that have warning lights are the actual emergency vehicles. None of paid crew and few volunteers have them. It is just an accident and a law suit waiting to happen

[FF.FOREVER]

TO HALIGAN 125 THAT IS THE STUPIDEST REMARK I'VE EVER SEEN ON FIREHOUSE. IF YOU ARE A EMT REPRESNT OURSELF AND THE OTHER EMTS ALITTLE BETTER NEXT TIME. I ALSO LIVE IN MAINE AND BECAME A EMT WHEN I WAS 16. I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM ABOUT THE JR.FF BEING YOUNG AND BEHIND THE WHEEL. IN MAINE IF THE COPS PULL HIM/HER OVER EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE RESPONDING TO A INCIDENT IT IS THEIR LINCENSE ON THE LINE AND IF THEY CAUSE A ACCIDENT IT'S THEIR INSURANCE. WHEN I WAS JR.FF IF YOU HAD YOUR OWN CAR YOU COULD RUN A RED LIGHT WITH THE FIRE CHIEFS PERMISSION. YOU ALL YOUR JR.FF OUT KEEP OUR HEADS UP. AND FOR HALIGAN EMT ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS MEDICS

[FF.FOREVER]

TO HALIGAN 125 THAT IS THE STUPIDEST REMARK I'VE EVER SEEN ON FIREHOUSE. IF YOU ARE A EMT REPRESNT OURSELF AND THE OTHER EMTS ALITTLE BETTER NEXT TIME. I ALSO LIVE IN MAINE AND BECAME A EMT WHEN I WAS 16. I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM ABOUT THE JR.FF BEING YOUNG AND BEHIND THE WHEEL. IN MAINE IF THE COPS PULL HIM/HER OVER EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE RESPONDING TO A INCIDENT IT IS THEIR LINCENSE ON THE LINE AND IF THEY CAUSE A ACCIDENT IT'S THEIR INSURANCE. WHEN I WAS JR.FF IF YOU HAD YOUR OWN CAR YOU COULD RUN A RED LIGHT WITH THE FIRE CHIEFS PERMISSION. YOU ALL YOUR JR.FF OUT KEEP OUR HEADS UP. AND FOR HALIGAN EMT ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS MEDICS

[mur875]

i dont see a problem with it, unless one junior does something wrong, then they should take them away, but give them a chance

[Greg Stone]

Who ever heard of blue lights? In N.C. it is red or clear lights.State law says that only law enforcememt is to use blue light. I do not think that jrs. should have blue or lights of anykind at all.

------------------

[NMFD33]

Different states use different colors for different. there should be a national standard but that would make sense. In NJ blue is for volunteer fire, EMS, and rescue POVs. Red is for apparatus and police and green is incident command. For instance in New york which is 10 minutes from where i live its all the same BUT green is a responding color for vol. ems, blue is fire. NUTS...

------------------
Chris Kerrigan
ILiveInACage@aol.com
~Junior Fire Fighter-NMFD Co.2
~EMT-B-NMVAC
~Ex-Chief Fire/EMS Explorer Post 402
New Milford,NJ


"Species come and go, but the earth stands forever fast. All river runs towards the sea, but the sea is never full"-In Flames

[Bob Snyder]

I'd split the difference...

Courtesy lights (the "blue lights" in PA) of all kinds should be outlawed. They confuse civilians and invite abuse.

Emergency vehicle status (reds & sirens in PA) should be extended to senior people in POVs IF AND ONLY IF they are certified emergency vehicle operators and/or officers. If I can safely handle a 32-ton, 40'2" ladder truck at emergency speed or command an incident scene, I can certainly handle my Taurus at emergency speed. Until I could show the former capabilities, however, there was never any reason to assume that I could handle the POV, either.

[JrFF-EMT45]

Here in south central PA, Juniors are allowed to have blue lights. We still must follow all traffic signals, etc. The blue light is only to warn people that we are responding to a call and if they're curteous, they will let us pass or let us turn first, whatever the need may be, so that we can get there faster. Our guidelines state firmly that we may not violate any traffic laws and we are not exempt from them. Like I said, they're only meant to tell people where we're going and why. It's up to the other drivers to let us pass, turn, etc or make us wait.

[CV639]

In my department, Juniors are not allowed to run red lights, we font use blue in WV. But When we are 18, we can get a state permit to run them if we have a siren also. I am also well aware that most of the juniors do run lights of some kind in order to get to the calls. Alos even with those lights and sirens you only get 15mph over the speed limit. so there is really no point. I dont run lights or anything and I can get by faster vcause noone is looking @ me when I dont haveba red light screaming "look me look @ me"..Anyway thats my 2 cents

[This message has been edited by CV639 (edited June 03, 2000).]

[Animal]

Haligan 125:

I think you've got it backwards with the ALS/BLS issue buddy. ALS is only as good as the BLS backing up. Never forget this: 'medics may save people, but EMTs save 'medics :-) (Another medic told me that once, and it's all too true! You get wrapped up doing ALS procedures, and it's easy to forget the basics!)

Just another 2 cents in the bucket.

[Animal]

FF SP E1:

more and more ALS providers are entering the volunteer service. In my county, there are close to 30 or 35 -volunteer- medics between the 5 -volunteer- fire & rescue stations. Every ambulance in the county is equipped with ALS supplies, regardless of the crew level. Every medic is issued a radio, and If a BLS crew catches a call where they need ALS, a county-wide page is sent out, and at least one, (if not more) medic will adknowledge and meet the unit while enroute to the receiving facility. 99% of the time, they are responding POV. Perhaps that is a situation where warning devices would be an advantage, considering fairly heavy traffic in the area.

[Haligan125]

Animal,
If that is the case with Medics, then maybe they should have Paramedic intercept vehicles, or change the law to make Medics personal vehicles emergency vehicles.

[Greg Stone]

In North Carolina the state law says only that Chief officers can run red lights and sirens. Also they can not exceed the posted speed limit. Just rember this the fire you going to is going to do two things. First it is going either get bigger or second it going to put it self out. Just something to think about.

------------------

[Animal]

Haligan 125;

You're right, maybe we should. But there are a lot of things we probably "should" have. Until more money begins to flow into the fire service, however, the "must haves" take precedence over the "should haves".

I realise this has gone off-topic, as this was a Firefighter explorer forum post on warning devices. I don't mean to turn it into a medic-versus-the-EMT debate, but I think you need to appreciate the role of the EMT when it comes to patient care, even in an ALS situation.

[NRFR/explorer]

What??????
Medic-versus-the-EMT?
What's wrong with you. Bro, we're all in it for one reason and that is to help those in need. This isn't a wrestling match. Wake up bud! And yeah, I think everybody has forgotten that this is a Explorer/Jr. post!!

Joe,
1st Responder, EMT-W trainee, explorer
KFD, Roger's Rangers-EMS

[Adze]

My FD's policy is that Juniors are allowed to display blue lights in their personal vehicles. BTW, in the State of CT, blue lights are used by FF's.

[FF SP E1]

Ok... It seems we've gotten off the subject... But just as a parting remark to "Animal" Unless the rescue squad is licenced at the PARAMEDIC LEVEL i don't believe you will find ANY DRUGS on your little rescue rig! So therefore... It is not really stocked to the paramedic level... Remember... ALS = DRUGS... no drugs... no ALS!

SO LIGHT UP YOUR "KOJACK" FIREBALL AND RIDE ON COWBOY!

And just to feel special like my "good friends" NRFR/explorer and NMFD33......

Jason Joler
AAS Fire Science
NREMT-B
Hazmat Awareness
-------------------
Belgrade Fire Dept 646
Rome Fire Dept 1630
South Portland Fire Dept 130
---------------------
Former...
Explorer FFD P. 400
Junior BFD

You guys are funny... LOL
Thanks for the Laughs!
you are all great FireMen!

[This message has been edited by FF SP E1 (edited April 12, 2000).]

[Haligan125]

" You and me Baby ain't nothing but mammals...

I could care less abot what people think abot my posts and my opinions so I am going to
... do it like they do on the Discovery channel"!

Oh and to back up my friend FF SP E1

Matthew Quinn
AAS Fire Science
NREMT-B
Hazmat Awarness Level
FF1 Modules 1-5
-------------------
South Portland Fire Department
Cornville Fire Department
RF EMS
--------------------
Former...
Junior FF CFD
--------------------
Current

S***bum walking down the street

[Animal]

Well FF SP 1, every ambulance in the county is licensed at an ALS level, and stocked accordingly. And may I suggest practicing better interpersonal skills? Maybe it's just me, but you come off as quite the prick. Seeya later, Tonto.

animal

[fire freak]

In our department Jrs are only aloud to use a blue light after they have completed an Essentials course after they pass the course then the Jrs may use the lights!!!

[Ed Mathis]

no...i find that there is no need for a (blue)light. In Michigan, we have red lights/sirens on our personal vehicles, but never the less...i have no need for them. I don't want to put my life in danger when i can get to the station and make the second truck out the door. I am never in a hurry...it is not our emergency. In my opinion, I would rather be on the apparatus because what good are you at the scene without equiptment?NO GOOD. I will never have lights on my vehicle...i dont find a big need for them.

[NRFR/explorer]

It isn't worth argueing over guys. Forget the stupid topic. Take it easy guys!
Joe
1stResp./explore

p.s. FF SP E1- check your e-mail

[acvfd15]

Well guys i feel it all depends on how far away you are from you station and what yoru departments policies are on jr's. I mean if you are like me and live 5-7 minutes away from the station then yes you need them. Plus you guys ought to know that if something does happen then not only is it yoru ass it is the departments too. So really it is yoru call to see if you think you can be mature enough to run lights and sirens.

[Jgassert]

Our department allows any member to carry a blue light. (Blue lights are considered simply as a courtesy in PA and any cars in front are not required to yeild.) Red lights are for apparatus and chiefs only, most of the FF's use rotating lamps, but a few use strobes...although there are laws in PA limiting the power of strobe lights (blue lights).

------------------

[Nick SBFD 6]

Ok, so let's go like abat out of hell code 3 to the station to roll hose! Let's be real get down to the basics of firefighting before you worry about getting there. What good is it to have an un trained member causing a liability for everyone so they can go and perform the same tasks that the guy strolling on in is gonna do just as well

[SCAFDEXP]

In my post, any explorer caught having any type of warning lights or siren on their vehicle is subject to termination. There is no need for an explorer to have warning lights. While explorers are a vital part of the fireground, it is not worth the kids getting killed while en-route to the station. Explorers are within the ages of 14-18, and that is just too young to be running around like a fool with lights on your car. Kids that age are just not mature enough to have lights and are more apt to abuse them.

[HotProbieJunior]

Most of our Juniors are not allowed to use the lights because they will abuse the privilage. Those who are dedicated, and there are only two of us, are allowed to use them. Unfourtunately, neither of us have our own vehicles yet.

------------------
You start 'em, we fight 'em.

Smile, It will improve your looks

[Justin Gershon]

TALK TALK TALK...... Sure run every thing if you are goin to a call u should have the right to run Blue lights. I have over 4 pairs of strobes on my car and not mentioning the light bar and dash light. And boy does it clear traffic! Im for it all the way!

[Fireguy2000]

I am sorry but any one that cares so much about lights on there car just isn't ready for firefighting. I mean I am joining the firedepartment so I can fight fires and save lifes not to run some dam light. Lets be realistic here. I mean Justin is there a need for all those lights. How often do you go to calls. I am graduation high school and know how you feel about lights and stuff but that is just crazy. Half the time when I am driveing I don't even use the lights on the truck if it isn't serious.Really though I am not gonna say pay more attention to school or anything like that because I know you dont wanna hear it I didn't either. I am jsut saying pay more attention to the actual theory of firefighting. Just stay safe

------------------
**Thirst is a late sign of dehydration**

[unit25-53]

Well, in Indiana, or more exactly, in my department we, the junior F/Fs CANNOT have a light, blue, or green until age 21. In the state it is 18...(I'm 16 mind you)I understand why we have it set that way. One reason, insurance(need I say more?) Two, it probably would have an effect on how we drive. Now if it would be a positive or negative effect is not for me to say. Also, I understand the other side of the discussion. It is true that many Jr. F/Fs are EMTs etc. Thus they have a reasonable complaint to use a light. I would also like to point out at my station, we are volunteer, and more than 15 have some type of medical response/treatment training.
Of course I love playing Devil's Advocate, so my opinions are my own.

------------------
Odis King
unit 25-53

[bob1350]

I guess I really don't belong on this forum as a fifty year old volunteer division chief. But, no junior or explorer should have lights on his/her POV.
In Colorado, Volunteers can have red or red/clear only. Our department does not have explorers/juniors/cadets because of liabiliies, but you have to be on our dept. for a year before you can put lights on your vehicle. Responding code3 is a huge responsibility. At that young of age and experience, I hope those of you that are allowed to do this take it very seriously.

[tanker1-5]

I am a Jnior Firefighter in PA. Our department does not let us use blue lights unless we are with a parent of another firefighter that is responding. I think that it shoudl be allowed for some cases. If there is a fire near your house, you should be able to. But if you have to go to the station, you shouldn't be able to. Also, if there is a house fire and a truck reports that they are standing by and need another person, you should be able to. If it is a mutual aid, then no. I think it depends on the case, or what is going on.

[SAFD10]

As far as I know our Dept policy is that I can't have a blue light. We aren't supposed to have them period. As for red lights, my chief said that I can't use them while responding. But I can use them while running traffic... road blocks etc. We live in a rural area so it really isn't a problem. So I have them... don't use them while responding though. I still manage to be first or second on scene. And I am a good driver... members of my dept tell me so.

[EDFD14423]

They dont need lights.

[firegirl91]

Well I am from Hanover, Pa. My station we have juniors, you must be 14 to be a junior and the juniors ages are 14-17. When you turn 18 you are a senior member. You are not alowed to have a blue light here until you are 18. The only people here who run red lights are the chiefs. I think it is different every where you go.

[Brian Dunlap]

Justin Gershon,
4 Sets of Strobes....Light Bar....Dash Light...Is all of that nessessary ? People are moving for you probably because they are afraid of you or maybe they are thinking a U.F.O. Has landed...I personnaly have 2 cars..on my car I have a Mini Light Bar that seems to do the trick and in my wife's car I use a blue/clear strobe light mounted to the passenger side sun visor...seems to work well to...living 4 miles from my station has traffic dis-advantages but I do it with one light as oppossed to your 6 lights I've been a firefighter for 10 years now and have seen the "blue lighters" such as your-self come and go...They are a Courtesy asking for the right of way not a demand or a law...If you are still on the Jr. End of firefighting please please please get the training and skills needed to be a good firefighter I have yet to see a chapter in the IFSTA Manual entitled "Blue Lights 101"

[Jeffrey Casson]

There is no reason whatsoever for Juniors/Explorers/Cadets or whatever to respond to the fire house with lights on their vehicles. Their age and inexperience with driving is one reason that is totally valid. As stated they have a support role in a fire situation but also remember support is in the rear with the gear and those people can be afforded a few extra minutes to get to the firehouse. Let the experienced and CERTIFIED firefighters get there and do their jobs. I know they are all pumped up for the call but they can do more harm than good going to the firehouse.

[westmead2]

I think that there is some confusion here. Juniors and Explorers ARE different in policy, SOP, and priviledges (at least around here). In my state, juniors cannot run blue lights, only adult firefighters. The stereotype of the 'super-junior' is a terrible misrepresentation several of the juniors in my dept. are more mature than most of the adults, and all of them are damn good drivers. In PA ALL firefighters must obey traffic laws, no excessive speeding, no charging through a red light (only if the coast is clear). A light is stictly to move traffic out of your way (half the time it doesn't work anyway). I think that a junior should be alowed to run a light because it is a safety feature, people see you coming or sitting on the side of the road and move. No private vehicle in PA can have a siren unless its an officer (C-4 or higher). I think that to many restrictions are in place already on juniors, and this is one of the less neccesary ones.

"Junior" Marshall
West Mead 2 VFD
Meadville PA

[OFD16]

Why do jr's need lights?? If the emergency is big enough its not going to go anywhere. In Michigan explorers are not allowed to enter burning buildings or assist in extrication so why would they need lights?? My department doesnt give the privilage to have lights to very many. I can make it to scenes with no problem without them.

[FiReFiGhTeR88]

around here in pa jrs can run blue lights.
eventhought u guys say jrs arnt inportant they r around here. jrs are treated and respected same as vetren fire fighters
no guys about the blue lights i think they should alow u to be able to do 5-10 mphs over the speed limit i mean guys if u were having a heart attack or your house was on fire would u wanna die or stand there and watch your house burn because fire fighters cant get to there stations quick enought
. no , and another thing in pa they call blue lights curtousy but did u no that if u dont pull over for a blue light and the person with the blue light is not breaking the law and there is a cop around they will pull u over i have seen it been done
this is just my opion to this

[APG1]

Oh lord. Where to begin?

For the last month or so, I've sat here, watching this topic go back and forth. From 'Waah! I want my blue/red/yellow/green/white/pink light! i'm kool like th@t!' to 'You $tupI3 $|-|IT' to 'NO LIGHTS FOR YOU'. It has been humourous, to say the least.

To the individuals who have more lights, then a circus truck... You have my congradulations. You, quite possibly, may never be involved in an accident, due to everyone fleeing in your path. Just -how- much -money- did you _spend_ on that thing? G'lord...

To those in PA, who are restricted to a light under 100CP... my condolances. I wouldn't bother. The light gives a false sense of security. 100CP is... eh.

I am not a fire fighter. I am not even a EMT (Yet! Test in the fall. Woohoo.). What I am, is a member of a volenteer Emergency Services and Disaster Agency. We do a bit of everything. During mass incidents, we coordinate mutal aide between police/fire/ems. During severe weather (Which we get a lot of here in IL), we storm spot/sweep the town for downed trees and damaged houses.

Some of our members, myself included, have a light in our cars. Because we are emergency units, we run blue (The volenteer emergency color in IL). I have a simple Firebeam Ultraflash dashlaser thing, and it's never failed me. I rarely use it, save for when I am in big town (about 10 mins from my town) and need to get back, ASAP. Even then, I will often turn it off when I get into town, since it can cause so many problems with traffic and confussion.

Whenever I respond with my blue light, I am terrified. If I ever hit someone while driving with it, my ass is toast. A light is something to be used in moderation, and very carefully. Remember, not only is -YOUR- life in danger when you are using it, everyone else's on the road is.

There will always be fires to fight and people to save.

"Gumby"

[vollieff]

A couple of quick notes for you guys

firefighter88. YOU ARE WRONG buddy. A blue light in the state of Pa is ONLY a courtesy light. Any cop that pulls over a driver and went to court is going to be WRONG, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.It DOES NOT give you any more rights than anyother driver, it actually gives you LESS rights on the road.

Westmead2, YOU ARE ALSO TOTALY wrong buddy. YOU ARE NOT allowed to run a red light "if the coast is clear" Please, for the sake of lifes(not only mine, but yours), do not EVERY do this.

No offense JR's just trying to save you some big time greef in the future.

And for you guys saying that a dash or visor light does the job good. Check your Pa laws. YOU MUST have 1 light, no more that is visible for 360 degrees NO LESS. Any officer in Pa CAN pull you over and give you a ticket for that light. If someone pules out in front of you, while you are running a dash visor etc. and is disobeying the normal laws (ie running a light or stop sign) and you are running a dash light, YOU are totally at fault. Sorry if some of you dissagree with this, but look into the Pa laws, it is clearly stated. Just one more stupid fact for ya here in Pa. If you are responding to a call in your firetruck, lights and siren, changing your audible 200ft before the intersection as required, you have the green and you have a guy that "runs" the redlight. Who is at fault?

YOU ARE. LEGALLY you are responsable to think ahead that that guy may run the light and use due caution when entering the intersection. Therefore you are legally at fault. If you did the exact samething without lights and sirens, HE would be at fault. Make sense out of that one. I think it is stupid, but that is the way it is in Pa. So, JRs don't think running a blue is so great, here in Pa it opens you and your Dept. up for MAJOR liabilities.

These are my views and not those of my Dept.

[This message has been edited by vollieff (edited June 27, 2000).]

[Jr_ AssistChief]

It all depends on where you live. I'm with two stations in a densely populated area of NJ and they're a good twenty minutes from each other along a major highway. They don't allow juniors to run blue lights on their personal vehicles but things need to change. Without a light I'm going to get nowhere down the highway, or at three o'clock trying to get out of the traffic jam at the two lane exit at school. If you're right down the street from the station there is no need, but when you're responding mostly from out of town and are responsible with the priveliges given, you should be allowed to operate a blue light on your personal vehicle.

[NRFR/explorer]

I think SFDchief is right. Although for firefighters/emts, I think a dashlight for a pov is fine, but I see the need for a 360 degree light. Do departments have some type of waiver/release, something like that for responding to calls with lights/sirens? Just curious, cause if not there should be-
Joe

[fireman1]

NRFR/explorer the light color depends on state laws in SD we must have blue unless you are the cheif then your pov is considered an emergency vehicle. We are also not allowed lights, the only acceptions are the hazards that are part of the car, or an OK from the fire marshal.

OFD95 you have a good point about eyes and hands on the fire ground our depatment has found us (the cadets/Jr') an indespensible part of the crew.in fact if we do not make it to 6 calls in 4 months it is grounds for dismisal.

On the issue of lights I think all fire personel including cadets/jr's/exploers, etc.
should be issued one light all other warning devices must be purchased on your own.
Cody 16

[holton_explorer]

I can see both sides of this argument(I hope i spelled that right). Explors/JFF should not be able to drive emergency, esspecailly when there under 18 and I am. I'm an explorer who is under 18, and I fell we shouden't have them except under certain situations.
1. we get the proper tranning
2. guidelines are set. instead of having an explorer "flooring it to the station" set a speed limit they have to follow, if they break it suspend their emergency status.
3. they also have to have a siren

the other side is that explorer help out a lot on the scene. Give them a red light so they can act as a warning for when the 80 year old grandma is going 12 MPH and oncoming traffic is as far as the eye can see, the grandma will move so we can at least travel the speed limit.

------------------
Adam Pletcher
Explorer
Holton Fire Department

[Whip]

Adam,
I'll be brief as I have already stated my postion on this in the numerous topics on this subject, but I will hope to try to answer what appears to be a logical question. First of all I don't know where Holton is so that hurts me a little, and I know that "different states have different rules", this is just what I can tell you. A courtesy light is just that, it does not give you the right to violate ANY motor vehicle laws. The chief has no power over this statute. So the only speed limit rule that needs to be imposed is the one on the street sign. I am just trying to give you an idea of the law in CT, where I live. I hope this gives you an idea of how these laws work.



------------------
Stay Safe.

Lt. Whip FSI/EMT
Ledyard CT FD

[doug]

I dont think jr need blue lights i knew a kid once who joind the fire comany just for the blue light idont even you a blue light

[FireDeptAFD]

Our Junior's are allowed to run a blue light on their car and respond on the first out engine to serve as a hydrant team and overhaul and rehab or breakdown of lines after the fire is out.

[20-40]

I agree & disagree with lots of posts for the topic, so I'll throw in my two cents. First forgive me for saying red light, but that's the color for all fire fepartments in WV. I'm a junior in a volly dept. in which currently no one is allowed to run lights (The chief won't approve the permits). I think junior's should be allowed to run red lights, but with some regulations and restrictions. First, before the permit is ever issued, I think EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Class) should be taken and passed by anybody who wants to run lights. I think this could make it a little safer for anybody responding with lights, as well as lessen the libilitiy of the department. Second, it should be understood that the light isn't a license to break any law at all, even going 5 MPH over the speed limit, but like it's been said, should only be considered as a COURTESOY to alert orther drivers you are responding in an emergency capacity. And third, I think the running of lights shouldn't be a general decision, but each and every situation should be evaluated for the usefulness and need for lights. If you live 10 miles away from the station but don't make work details/bingo/meetings/etc. and only respond to structure fire calls or whatever your favorite call is, you shouldn't get them. If you respond to practicaly every call you can and have an effective role in the department, you should be able to have them. Just my opinion.

[NRFR/explorer]

In my state, FF/emts may use red, white and amber, as well as a siren. Anyway, what about allowing explorers to use just ambor light or jus white lights, that way it could designate that it is an explorer/jr. Something as simple as a amber-colored hotshot, or dual amber dashmiser strobe. I'm just thinking of ideas. Around here, amber light are used for plows, tow trucks, phone company and on the rear of emergency apparatus. People obviosly don't pull over for them, it is just to catch you attention and say "caution" It would work well for explorers/jrs when they respond direct to the scene and park their cars, or for some 'bikes'! Green is not used in my area so maybe we could have green? WHo knows- Food for thought!
Joe

[Firefighter2197]

having already put in my two cents worth I will make this short
a jr should not be able to run a light unless a parent who is in the dept. in riding with them, unless you live in a area where most of the seniorsFF work out of town and can not respond during the day and the jrs anre the fire dept. during the day and he has passed his evoc driving test.
2197 Bradley
the views posted here are not endorsed by my dept

[AVF&R452]

Two Words.....

NO WAY!!!!!!

and... They get off the engine if a senior member arrives before it leaves.

[Wally57fire]

I have sat on the fence long enough, im a junior firemen, my departments by-laws stat that no junior or probie can use 4-ways or a warning light in nj its blue. I agree with this. Juniors can respond to the call in a personal vehicle, i live right across the street from my station and i make the first due out engine to all the small stuff, but if i needed to respond in my parents car i would not let myself drive for i only have my permit and i know that even if jrs in my dept. could run a light i would break laws run reds and cause alot of problems. Thats my opinon, that jrs should wait get experince driving and controlling the rush.
y opinons not my departments

[SCAFDEXP]

Explorer/Juniors should never, under NO Circumstances be allowed to have any type of light or siren on their vehicle. They are not old enough for the responsibility and are more likely to abuse them. All the explorers out there: You just need to wait until you get hired on your dept. You will be able to use them someday.

------------------
Nick Funk
Explorer
Swartz Creek Area Fire Dept.
Post 41

"I FIGHT what you FEAR."

[Neil Murphy]

Simply.."No"... Junior Fire Fighters have no need to respond Hot to any call. Their presence and assistance is greatly needed as juniors and later as seniors. I do not wish to quell the enthusiasm of junior fire fighters but there will be plenty of fire to fight. First you need to get there and get there safely.

Flashing lights and sirens make your heart beat faster and your foot a brick. Only with maturity will the brick be smaller in proportion to the heartbeat.

Juniors in my department are not allowed to respond hot to calls. They are not allowed to have lights,it is in our SOG. NC State laws prohibit the use of sirens other than on apparatus of chief's vehicles.

I have found over the years that lights on personal vehicles tend to cause more problems in responding than not using them at all.

just my thoughts

[FiReFiGhTeR88]

guys u can disagree with me all u want.
i am a jr and jrs are important too .
so i have a dash laser light that is blue and reflects white and use it everytime my pager goes off. i am responsible and careful and always rember what a a close buddy of mine told me "u cant help some one if u kill ur self getting there ." so those of u that do use blue lights becareful

[RDWFIRE]

NO!!!!!! Juniors are just that. Juniors. I do NOT want to take anything from juniors, cadets or whatever you want to call them, but they are NOT fully trained responders, and should not have blue (or any other color) lights. Please don't get me wrong, our department has cadets, but they are just that.....cadets. Not fully trained responders. You WILL get there. Don't grow up before your time.

Be safe. The dragon lurks!!!

[nfd20]

FF SP E1;

You need a reality check! Where I grew up (in CT) almost 90% of all medical and fire emergencies are run by VOLUNTEERS! People who aren't paid to stay at the station for a 24 hour shift! They are volunteering to portect the life and property of the tax payers (which you refered to). True people die and peoples homes burn, but, do they stand a better chance when a volunteer firefighter or EMT can maintain a faster response time!? Think about it! While Jr.s DONT need lights the non-jr fire fighters DO need lights! Not because its "cool" not because they want to exceede posted state and local speed limints, but because someone could be in trouble, they could be dying! Now why dont you ask yourself, if you were trapped in a 3 story building and about to burn to death, or if you were just about to take a bite of a home cooked meal by your wife and go into cardiac arrest, or have a seziure, do you want help to arrive in 15 minutes! NO you dont! Lights for volunteers and those who operate admin. type positions are given the PRIVILAGE to have lights to assist the public and the tax payers, the ones they are sworn to protect. If they decide to excede the speed limit with out good cause, then the privilage should be revoked, but no other reason would warrent it! And as for your comment about loosing life and property is a part of the service we are in, thats true, but why should any of us allow it to be lost beacuse we cant get there fast enough!????? Answer that or change you opinon! I dont know where your bias for volunteer fire firefighters, with lights, who would lay down their lives for anyone in the community, including you, came from, and i care not to know, but just give everyone a who has a light respect until they break a law and then jump down their throats, not before they do, and they are trying to save lives, being late isn't i repeat IS NOT an option. In this service minutes and even seconds make a big difference if you dont understand that then find a new job.

[Jason Pickering]

We do not in any way have a junior program. Anyone over 18 can apply, if they are still in school they must maintain a "C" ave. to remain employeed. As for probies to use warning lights on thier personal vehicals---NO--- they need to spend time on the BASICS of even being a firefighter. Not sticking as many blue,red,green or what ever color you use on thier vehicles to look cool for thier friends. Most 16-18 year olds are not mature enough.

[Brian Dunlap]

nfd 20....You Go !!! Time in the Volunteer Business is not an option but those who abuse the privilige need to be smacked...Great Reply...Couldn't have said it better myself....Jr's Don't need lights nor does any volunteer need anymore than one light on a vehicle { Some of these guys have Strobes and Rotators out the Wa-zoo } I use one on each of the vehicles in my house-hold...One does the trick day and night...

[Haligan125]

Who cares anymore I know I don;t

[Brian Dunlap]

Yes...Like Haligan125 says who cares !!! for 8 1/2 Months this topic has been argued and beaten like nobodys business....Who cares who has a Blue-Light...I have one and I use it ...I'm also not a Jr....Jr. Firefighters need to know what they are doing before going out and buying that light....Meaning learn the business first...become a sr. firefighter and if you still want to...by a light....But remember as a Jr. if you use a light and have an accident because you were hauling ass IT IS ON YOU, YOUR PARENTS AND THEIR INSURANCE {if you don't have your own } A Blue-Light response is not something to take advantage of just because it "Looks Cool" on or in your car is not a reason to have one.....This topic is making my stomach churn...I'm outta here

[Station7Cadet]

Our department states that NO cadets are allowed to have blue lights! But I do run red lights, becasue I respond to the firehouse on a bike and I have lots and lots of lights.

[junior63]

I Live In NJ And Operate A Blue Light. When Older People Interract People WIth Blue Lights They Think They Are Not Responsible. There Is A Difference Between Explorers & Juniors...I'm An EMT And Just As Important On Location As A FFI Qualified Pesonnel. To All Of You Older Firefighters That Think Operating A Blue Light Is Wrong You Should Think Again...

[Bakdrft1314]

Originally posted by OFD95
Well NRFR/explorer, I am not sure about other states, but in nj volunteers respond in personal vehicles using blue lights, not red (only on apparatus). On another note, it is necessary that juniors (we are not BSA affliated) DO respond to calls. They make up a vital support team on the fireground as well as an extra pair of hands and eyes!

i agree 100% every once adn a while we have call and i get to the station adn no one was there i was able to get geared up get the doors up and the truck started and i turned oput to be a worker

[MFDExplorer51]

in ny, red lights are for cheifs emergency vehicles and the higher up people in the fire world, as for blue lights, juniors at my dept are not allowed to run any kind of light no matter what its color. the only time i get to br running blues is when my dad or any of the other family members that are firefighters are responding

[FireExplorer13]

Juniors and Explorers do not need to have warning lights or sirens for two reasons.
#1- They are not essential for an intial attack, so as long as they make it to they station safely they can ride the 2nd or 3rd truck out and still be of use on the fire ground.
#2- Juniors and Explorers have less than 2 years of driving experince which is not enough experience to be driving at a high rate of speed with lights and sirens. You do your department no good if you wrap your POV around a tree responding to a call.

[38R1-theprobe]

I think that lights and siren can be very vital especially in the rural setting that vermont is. All of our medical and fire depts are primarily volunteer and if you have ever been to vermont there is a lot of space between towns and a quick and safe responce is an absolute necessatity. Now as far as explorers go, i do not feel they should have lights, most are not even old enough to drive. The juniors in my dept. are very active members riding our rescue and engines. I am currently a probie and responding to the station is agganizing when grandma decides that she wants to cruise the streets just in time to allow you to miss all trucks leaving the station. There are only like 10 paid fire depts in vermont and they are not allowed to have lights and siren but volunteers can as soon as they are 18 and have approvel by the chief.

[Strobes4less]

Can we beat this into the ground anymore. I only choose to comment on
this cause I once had a rolling cristmas tree. There is not need for jrs to have any lights what so ever. Reason being that you are not the most critical part of the fd. They functioned before you became a part and will continue to function if your not there. I know its cool to run around with the lights in your vehicle, and the feeling of authority of people pulling out of your way, but it will only get you in trouble. On my 91 Ford CRown Vic. I had more lights than the local cruisers had, and I got **** for it all the time. Evan when I had gotten my Ford Ranger and just put wig wags and corner strobes in I would get **** when I got to the firehouse after a call. Cause people would call up saying there is some kid running around with lights and siren pretending to be a cop or ff, and I was only respondin to the pager. So its a lot more hassle than it is any good, Plus you will be temted to used them in traffic, hwy, redlight and so on. So I dont belive ANY jrs Should have lights. These are my own thoughts from expeirence.

[Dr Parasite]

well, since this thread has been going on for 2+ years, I figured I might give my opinion. And yes, I know 80% of the people who read this will disagree with me. I've been the junior FF, junior EMT, senior EMT and Senior FF. my dept doesn't allow cadets/juniors/explorers/people under 18 who ride the emergency vehicles/whatever to have blue lights. I disagree with this policy. I also know some juniors that violated this policy.

for those of you who say, "if the junior misses the first vehicle, he can always hop on the second", i got news for you: some fire houses (not departments) only have one piece of apparatus!!! My house only had an engine stationed there. if I missed it, i was stuck sitting around waiting for the call to be over. trust me, it sucks.

I believe that juniors should be allowed to have blue lights, provided they are issued pagers and permitted to respond for calls. I also think the junior should be an EMT, before he/she is permitted to have a blue light to respond for EMS calls. as for fire calls, give him the light, and let him respond. if the dept/chief gets complaints, then the blue light is taken away. the same goes for senior members.

for those that say it is a liability, I say your right. however, having a senior member use a blue light is no more a liability. also, the junior (and senior) member needs to be informed that the light doesn't give him the right to break laws, or violate and traffic regulations.

but if the junior isn't allowed to respond to calls, then there is no point in him having a blue light (or red depending on what state you are in).

but they should have pink :D

[CW7704]

Here is a good solution, If a member is not old enough to drive the smallest Piece of apparatus in the station, ie; ambulance, brush unit or salvage truck, than they need not have a light in their POV. You kids are still wet behind the ears when it comes to the Fire Service, so worry about the more important things before you worry about "Squirrel" lights in your Dads old Dodge "K" car. Take it from a 10-year vet, the lights make you look like a real Hick. just sleep at the firehouse, the firetruck will get out faster and your customers will be happier.

[captstanm1]

I agree with those that say Juniors should not have them...sorry guys...wont go to bat for you on this. As a Junior once myself, i can safely say that for some reason the light give you a sense of security and power. When allowed they are a courtesy light that informs people you are going to a fire or something. Most people dont even see them...or dont even know what they are for. So...you blow your horn, ride their bumper, force them into intersections against traffic and become an accident waiting to happen. They are a magnet for trouble.

In my old department, you were allowed to have one if the car was in your name or the name of a person in the department,.....ie your parents.

Where I volunteer now, the County does not allow any type of warning device in personal vehicles. I would assume it is for the very items mentioned above.

[WFDjr1]

CW, are u tryin' to say there's somethin' wrong with being a quote-unquote "hick"? Hey now, that was a low blow. I don't say that u shouldn't run blue lights cuz it makes you look like a YANKEE, now do I? LOL, I'm just pickin' on ya, but watch what u call people, others may take offense.:p :p :D :D

[explorer1815]

i think that maybe that explorers should only have them for on scene use but this is my opinion, there is no use in running them while going to a call in a pov, the only reason is to be identfied on the scene an some one who is allowed to be there. but this is my opinion.

[junior63]

Every Man Or Women, Explorer, Junior Or Firefighter Is Important In Any Situation, Worry Bout Fighting The Fires & Keepin' It Safe Rather Than Crying About A Blue Light

[CFD2 Explr Josh]

This topic always seems to amuse me.
The policy at my departments is simple. the only person aloud to run any sort of lights on thier POV is the cheif. Granted the guys are paid and work shifts so they dont need to have the lights. As for us explorers, if we are at the station and the tones go off then we get to hop on a truck. In fact, if we just show up on the scene we are teated like all the other people who are there to watch. To me it sounds like a good idea because knowing some of my explorer, the thought of them just driving scares me.
Thanks again for the laughs this post always tends to create.
Stay Safe

[EPHQ]

Seeing that this form has been dragged out of the closet and beaten some more. I will now say that it is unforunatly to see our little brother to go down at only 15. Chris was probaly posting among us. Our Thats all that should be mentioned to put this topic in the Archives. My thoughts and prayers are with him, his family, his fire dept. and the rest of our family.

[JRCHIEF22EXPORT]

I also am a Jr. Chief and I must agree that Juniors should be allowed to use Blue Lights. I've had the exact same thing happen to me as Backdrft was talking about. I got to the station first because cars got out of my way when I had my blue light on.. When I got to the station, I got geared up, put the bay doors up, and even had the truck started with the warning lights on so that it was ready for when a driver showed up. The drivers said they "appreciate" when I do this along with the other Juniors in my firehall. It helps us get out of our station a little bit quicker. My chief told me as long as the trucks aren't full, that us Juniors can goto any call. He said we are a true "asset" during times where there are smaller crews because we can hit hydrants and lay line as well as do outside attacks allowing the other guys to mask up and it lets the driver concentrate on the pump. By the way... I got a dash light for sale. $70 + shipping and it was only used once. Want info on it? E-mail me. I'm selling it for almost half the price that I got it for just because I don't need it anymore and all it is going to do is collect dust if I don't sell it. Our chief just bought us all new dash lights and we're only allowed to use the ones he bought us. So e-mail me at PASSBK@ALLTEL.NET if your interested in info and I got a pic of the dashlight I'm selling. It's blue colored. 30 Watts, pretty bright, it lights up my whole windshield and even some of the hood of my car when it's dark. It's pretty cool. Thanks!
Export Volunteer Fire Department Online (http://exportvfd.tripod.com)

[ESDA-20]

So you're a Jr. Chief. You, getting to the station, to start the truck, makes almost -no- difference. As a driver, it takes me just seconds to open the door to my rig, close the door, stick the key in, and turn it. And sometimes, it takes me an extra half second to reach over and push the big button marked 'lightbar'.

You, as a Jr., screaming through traffic with blue lights blazing, opens your department, and your chief (Not the junior one, your real white hat) up to major liability. Imagine if you hit someone while running with that blue light. Do you like being a firefighter? Can you imagine never being able to do it ever again because no department will hire you because of your recklessness? I know. I've sat on hiring boards before and faced the choices.

Juniors have no use for blue lights.

As a EMT, I rarely use mine.

[JRCHIEF22EXPORT]

Well, you know I find that someone funny. I never said that I drive "recklessly" to the station. The purpose of my blue light is to make people aware that I am responding to a call and if they are "courteous" they will let me by them or pull off the road to let me through. Our stations has a lot of use for us juniors, especially during the daytime where we are lucky if we have a crew of 4. I could mask up on any call other than a structure, house, or any fire they required entering a structure. That's obvious. I've already made it to the firehall during the day to make the first truck out when we've been short handed and I was told me and the other Juniors are a great help during those times. We're a great help anytime, but especially during times like in the middle of the day where most of our firemen are at work. You can have whatever OPINIONS you want. You can go start your truck in your 2 seconds or whatever it takes you. If your that quick, I'd have to give you a cookie or something if I lived in the area. You never know when those couple of seconds can mean life or death to a victim. Later.
Justin
Jr. Chief - 22
Export V.F.D. (http://exportvfd.tripod.com)

[ESDA-20]

There are thousands upon thousands of firefighters who are 18 years or older in this country who drive with blue/red/green lights responsibily to the firehouse for calls.

And likewise, there are hundreds of accidents every year, from minor fenderbenders, to full wrecks requiring extrication. They don't drive recklessly? The other morons on the road do. I'm reminded of a joke when a 5 year old daughter asks her mother in the car as they're driving, "Mom, are YOU ever the idiot?"

If you're under the age of 18, you have no responsibilty driving with blue, yellow, or pink bunny lights on.

What if you hit someone? Or someone hit you? Can you imagine how much crap your department would be in?

Is it -really- worth it?

[JRCHIEF22EXPORT]

It's worth it when it can help save lives by me being able to be on a truck and do an outside attack or hit a hydrant instead of a maskman having to do it. It's worth it when I'm AED/CPR certified and I can save a life on an AED call during the daytime where we only have 1 other member AED certified during the daytime. It's worth it when I get there first and save those few seconds in which can mean life or death in some situations to a victim. And if it was you dying, or your house on fire I GUARENTEE no matter how much you deny it that you wouldn't give a $*$# about if a Junior fireman had a blue light. You would want help there as quick as possible. That's something you know you and everyone else could never deny. Later.
Justin
Jr. Chief - 22

[ems121KVFC]

In my dept, jr ff are not allowed, for any reason, to use blue lights. I also think it may be PA state law, I'm not sure. Jr's are also restricted on the time of day when they can respond, they peice of apparatus they may ride, and what types of calls they may take.

They are not allowed to ride the first out engine, or respond to any emergencys along major road ways. As for EMS calls, they may not resond to any type of OD, suidice, homiscide, or domestic related incident.

FYI, in PA, vol ff/emt's use blue lights only, with the exception of cheif's and EMS capts, who use red. Only red, amber and white are used on apparatus. No one at all can mix red/blue, except PD.

Be safe!

[JRCHIEF22EXPORT]

Wow.. with all those restrictions do your Juniors learn anything?
-Justin
Jr. Chief - 22

[ems121KVFC]

Just following PA state law. Look it up. Jr's have 4 years to learn as much as they can, but there are some scenes they are not allowed on. That's what their time as a proby is for. It's a safety issue, not that we don't want them to learn anything. Some scenes require a little more maturity that others.

Be safe.

EMS capt 12-1

[ESDA-20]

I wonder how the explorer post in the next town over lets their kids learn anything too! I mean, geez, for group of 35+ kids, who're very active, how -can- they learn anything if they don't get to ride fire trucks on real calls?

Their department doesn't let you ride tankers. Their department doesn't let you have blue lights, until you're a minimum of 20. (You need 2 years on the department, and since minimum age is 18...). Their department doesn't let their explorers/juniors go on MVC's, suicides, and so forth. So how DO they learn something?

They go to drills. They go to training. They go to the fire academy, watch, learn, participate. They make contacts. They expand their horizons. They learn where the left-handed hydrant wrench is. They learn what it means to be a firefighter, and if this is what they truly want to do, not because 'LOOK! I GOTZA BLUE LIGHT ANIT I COOL MA?!'.

The post has a 65 percent 'hired after 2 years from high school' for major departments, like Chicago. In the past 15 years, they have spit out two explorers who went on to become chiefs of the department for small towns. How do I know? My boss is one of them. The department pays for their EMT training, so after they turn 18, they become EMTs, free of charge (How's that incentive :)).

But damn, how do they learn anything is beyond me...

And frankly, if my house is burning, I'd rather you not blue light it. My house is replacable. Your life is not.

[Nick SBFD 6]

in case all of you pre-pubescent (sp) weenies don't know, the world and all of mankind aren't going to crumble tomorrow if you aren't at the station first for a run to get the truck started for the driver, who I assume having been given the responsobility of driving the truck is perfectly capable of starting the truck on his own!!!


Gove me a freakin' break here people, this is the first time I've been on the boards in over 8 months and I was shocked (though I'm not sure why) that this post is still kicking around!!!


So give it up already!!! Get a life and go to school.



Good night.


-Nick

[Engine1615]

Our dept does not allow lights on any POV while in motion, I have them on my POV for when I am at scene and they are clear strobes. Since Washington state law says only the police are to have blue and fire are to only have red and clear. but I don't think that a jr. fire fighter should have lights of any color since most of them don't drive cars yet, some do.....but the ones that don't are they gonna mount the light on there fire helmet and run to the scene. I think its just a liability myself my dept does not have jr's but the neighboring mutual aid district in another county does and they don't allow it. you can drive all the faster ya want with or with out a light but if you crash and kill a person..."were you showing due reguard for the safety of other drivers" ya might think about that cause they will ask ya that ? in court.

Resident Fire Fighter
Pierce County, Washington

[Piggy69d]

my company states that any junior can run a blue light as long as they have exterior

[NJFFSA16]

Wheenie Low Profile DashMisery Plus II Strobe--$240.00
150 Watt 8 Outlet Wheenie Power Supply------$350.00
8 Wheenie 200 degree coverage strobes-------$400.00
Full size Wheeniemaster lightbar---------------$500.00

Developing some maturity and realizing that
there's more to life than blue lights ------PRICELE$$!

[cvfdcadet03]

Originally posted by NRFR/explorer
Our post does not allow red lights to be used by an explorer, unless you have a parent who is on the same fire dept., responding to the call with the parent in the passaenger seat. But e33 is right. Explorers do not need lights, because it is not necessary they be responding to the call. ALso, what FD has blue lights for their apperatous? I have thought it was always red, white and orange?
Joe, 16
NRFR, explorer

[This message has been edited by NRFR/explorer (edited January 13, 2000).] i am an explorer, and our fd doesnt allow us to run with blue emergency lights. i, like e33, think we should worry about other things, not just the lights that we can respond with.

[vfd1jo]

OK, here is my opinion on this whole matter. Juniors, though helpful, should not run with blue lights. Yes, you are helpful and yes, during the day its nice to have a well staffed truck, but most calls are within structures so you won't be entering anyways. As a junior, your main role is support and the trucks should be filling up with those who are going to help out more than you.

I run with a blue light (our department has no policy on this besides drive like an ass, expect a suspension). I find the blue light relatively helpful as we have a large commercial area within our town and traffic is quite dense. I don't get on peoples bumpers to make them move out of my way and for the most part, I haven't seen people panic. A blue light is essential and will cut down on response time in my town. However, for a junior, yes, you will be disappointed, but give it time and someday you too will earn the right to have one.

[MVFD81]

Juniors in my department cannot run blue lights. However I do have one and plan on getting a better one for when I am 18. My department also allows juniors to respond on the engine IF they have taken a specific course.

[Scoop422]

If you drove through my province with a blue light you'd better be plowing snow because that is who uses them here. Vollies use green.

[WFDjr1]

FOR THE LAST TIME!!! Does your POV carry 500 gallons of water on it? Does it have crosslays on it? Does it have a 1200 gpm pump on it? Does it have about $100,000 worth of tools and other firefighting equipment on it? If you answered no to any of these questions, then you probably don't need a red/blue/purple/polka-dotted light on your vehicle. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Engine101]

People here sure to like to beat those poor dead horses

Explain to me as to why an explorer would need a blue light?
I must be missing something because last time I checked there was never any reason as to why an explorer needs one

[lynnportjustin]

I know this is a controversial topic so ill just keep to facts, not opinions.

1) Our department allows juniors to have BLUE LIGHTS ONLY
2) If you are caught abusin the privlidge, you lose your lights
3) Juniors are an important part in our department, so making it to calls is encouraged but school comes first...

I am a junior at a fire company and i think that we are a big part of our department. My QRS Captian and my Chief keep saying that "its good that we joined. Kids today are not usually like us, that most kids dont care about the community."

[Jun18ior]

Juniors should NOT be using lights of any kind on their POV's. I'm from NJ so volunteers use blue, and my Chief won't even look at a permit application for a junior. There's no reason a junior needs one, the truck will roll with or without them, they're not pack people, and they can't do interior work. I AM a junior by the way and no argument anyone puts up will change my opinion.

[brubaker]

HEY GUYS,

COME ON GET REAL AND GET SERIOUS. JRS/EXPLORERS NEED NOT HAVE LIGHTS. ONLY THE FULL TIME (CAREER) FIREFIGHTERS/EMT/PARAMEDICS OR THOSE VOLLENTERS WHO ARE OVER 18 SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE RED/BLUE/AMBER LIGHTS AND ONLY IF RESPONDING TO "TRUE EMERGENCIES."

TO ALL YOU JRS/EXPLORERS... IT'S TIME TO BEGIN TO GROW UP AND MATURE. IF YOU WANT TO SUCCEED IN THE EMS/FIRE/RESCUE FEILDS YOU GUYS NEED TO STOP OBSESSING OVER WHO SHOULD/SHOULD NOT HAVE LIGHTS, CONTINUE YOUR EDUCATION, LEARN ALL YOU CAN ABOUT THE FIRE/EMS AND RESCUE FEILDS. AND COME ON GUYS, START ACTING LIKE PROFESSIONALS! ANYWAY...GOOD LUCK IN LIFE AND IN THE FIRE/EMS/RESCUE FEILDS. THE MORE EDUCATION YOU HAVE, THE BETTER FF/EMT/PARAMEDIC YOU'LL BE. STAY IN SCHOOL, AND GET A DEGREE. YOU'LL HAVE PLEANTY OF TIME TO WORK AND GO CODE 3 ONCE YOU BECOME AN FF/EMT/PARAMEDIC.

GOD BLESS, TAKE CARE, AND STAY SAFE.
----------------------------------------
THIS IN NO WAY IS A HARMFUL OR PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANY OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM. IT IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPONION.
----------------------------------------

[Weruj1]

wow ..............where did this get resuscitated from ? NO LIGHTS FOR EXPLORERS/JR's/CADETS/ whatever you are called ..........now get back to class and study !

[brubaker]

No Lights For Explorers/Jr's/Cadets/ whatever you are called...No, get back to class and study!

Weruj1, Too Funny... LOL!:D

[snups900]

i am in a jr firedepartment and we are not allowed to use blue lights but we are able to resopond to calls even though we are threw the boy scouts

[explr985]

NC law states that anyone 18 and under MAY NOT use any means of warning device in a POV. I am a explorer for a career dept. and we schedule ourselves to ride the units, so my post does'nt have this problem. Do I think a jr needs a warning light, no I don't think so. I know vollie depts. around here let jrs ride 1st due rigs, which I think is a good and bad thing. Its good because you have the jr to go do the piddly stuff and gives the attack crew another person and gives the enginner a helper. Its a bad thing if you have only 2 or 3 seats in the truck, again I never have this problem, smallest cab seats 5, and the engine I ride has 6 and usually runs with 3. I agree with Engine101, the poor dead horses, this has been gone over and over way too many times. Just my 2 cents, take of it what you wish.

[brubaker]

Will this post ever die? Come on guys, enough already!:rolleyes:

[MVFD81]

So why do you go over it again? If you want the poor dead horse to stop being beat why dont you just let it go? lol.

*This is not intended as an atack against any person*

[brubaker]

MVFD81,

That's exactly what I'm trying to say!

[DVFDExplorer]

I am also a explorer and i dont think that we should have blue light becuz we had an incident were they were using the blue light for other purposes and having it around town and not im emergency problems. My opionin is that we should not granted we are teenagers we like to have fun and screw around but things like that should not be screwed around with cuz that could get us all in trouble so i think that only firefighters unless the chief of the department says otherwise.

[nmfire]

I wish the WT would just delete these threads. I don't know why some people feel compelled to bring back a topic that died 5 MONTHS AGO especially after reading the contraversy and moronicism it brings out. PEOPLE... You are the future of the fire service and threads like this make it look VERY bleek. You do realize that most if not all of the actual adults here read this and LAUGH AT YOU?? I know I am. Would you want that at your firehouse? I think not. If I forward this thread to each of your Cheif's what do you think he would have to say the next time you pull in the parking lot?

[brubaker]

I wish the WT would just delete these threads. I don't know why some people feel compelled to bring back a topic that died 5 MONTHS AGO especially after reading the contraversy and moronicism it brings out. PEOPLE... You are the future of the fire service and threads like this make it look VERY bleek. You do realize that most if not all of the actual adults here read this and LAUGH AT YOU?? I know I am. Would you want that at your firehouse? I think not. If I forward this thread to each of your Cheif's what do you think he would have to say the next time you pull in the parking lot?

nmfire,

Why don't these kids ever listen?...:rolleyes:

[Bakdrft1314]

[i]Originally posted by lynnportjustin

I know this is a controversial topic so ill just keep to facts, not opinions.

1) Our department allows juniors to have BLUE LIGHTS ONLY
2) If you are caught abusin the privlidge, you lose your lights
3) Juniors are an important part in our department, so making it to calls is encouraged but school comes first...

I am a junior at a fire company and i think that we are a big part of our department. My QRS Captian and my Chief keep saying that "its good that we joined. Kids today are not usually like us, that most kids dont care about the community."

We have the same rules in my dept. We are a small department in rual Pa and jrs. make a verry high percentage of our calls.

[ffdfireexplorer]

seriously, lets just drop the subject and move on.

[Engine101]

This is why so many of the veteran firefighter's here at Firehouse don't respect the explorers because all they seem to care about is blue lights and why they should be allowed to have them

[nmfire]

And whats almost worse is when the thread has been dead for a week and someone feels it is neccessary BRING IT UP AGAIN only to say "don't keep bringing it up because it makes us look bad." If you don't want people to keep bringing it up, DON'T BRING IT UP AGAIN YOURSELF.

I'm going to throw something out here. Lets just let this embarassing and pathetic thread die right here, right now. No more replies, whether you agree or disagree with the topic. If you agree that it should just be laid to rest which I think most people here do, DO NOT REPLY!! Not even an "i agree" reply. Press back or close. Just let it die, here and now. I say again, if you agree that this topic is going no where and should be allowed to go away DO NOT REPLY!!

[Engine58]

SIZE=3]I AGREE!!![/SIZE] :D :D :D :D

[firefightermatt]

ATTENTION ALL JUNIORS/EXPLORERS THAT THINK YOU NEED TO RUNN LIGHTS AND SIREN!!!

I've said it before and I will say it again, we are too young to be running lights. Its better to get to the call safely at a safe rate of speed than to die trying to get there. If youo die or get into a wreck trying to get there you actually make the problem worse because you have to stretch your dept's manpower. TRUST ME I KNOW THIS FROM EXPERIENCEING IT. I was going to a call for a car accident. I wasnt running lights(nor do I own lights) a lady pulled out in front of me. I hit my brakes and swerved to miss her, I clipped the tale end of her(she was traveling in a direction opposit me and pulled across my lane into a driveway) and hit another car head on. Luckily I walked away from it with only a brush burn on my forehead from the air bag. The four people in the other 2 cars were transported by ambulance to the hopital. From what I understand they were all okay and weren't admited to the hopsital. However it was my dept that responded to my wreck also, infact my wreck was probably less than a mile away from the one I was responding to. They told me that the wreck I was in was worse than the one I was going to. It also left the station with only 1 person to dipatch and 1 person to run calls, everyone else was out at my wreck. Its been provin that when people see flashing lights they panic, just think how bad my wreck could have been if I had been running lights, she may have seen me then just stopped there in the middle of my lane and I could have killed the passenger. The moral is that we're too inexperiencec to be running red lights, kids get killed speeding when we're not supposed all the time, if you let us run lights its just giving us a lisence to kill ourselves and others. Also if you get a wreck and you are running lights its your fault no matter what. The other person could come into your lane and its still your fault. We dont need to runs lights until your atleast 18 maybe even older than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:


sorry if there are any misspellings or incorrect grammar just pm me if you have any problem understanding what I wrote.

[Explorer129]

Explorers do not need blue lights. I am not a key guy at a scene, we are not needed at all. We are just extras helping out. The firefighters do not need to hear that an explorer gets hurt or killed responding to a call.

[ffdfireexplorer]

i dont see why the wt has deleted this thread yet. it is almost dead and someone brings it back and everybody starts fighting again. everybody, just let this thread die out.

[nmfire]

I think I know why. Because the mature adults are all LAUGHING TOO HARD AT YOU PEOPLE TO DELETE IT! Hint Hint. :rolleyes:

[ThNozzleman]

FLAMES FEAR ME.
ATTENTION ALL JUNIORS/EXPLORERS THAT THINK FLAMES FEAR THEM!!!

They don't. :rolleyes:

[Explorer129]

Ah, I love the few that give the rest of us a bad rap.

[FDNY101TRUCK]

Wow 12 pages of all Bullsh*t about Jrs with Blue lights. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well i'll just answer the question by saying Juniors here are not allowed to have blue lights. I'm not even going to say whether they should or they shouldnt be allowed.



ffdfireexplorer, if you want it to die out THEN QUIT POSTING TO THIS THREAD.