puttin on the blitz

[jpm]

i am very interested in learning how other departments blitz.

for this one lets say its an 200 year old building 60'x100' by 40' high, ballon frame
upon arrivial you have 50% involved and spreading rapidly. two large oak doors holding in place at the front.vestabule in the rear puffing smoke.fire coming out the windows on the B and D side. a good water supply about a mile away. a road goes around the stucture .


stay low stay safe

[This message has been edited by jpm (edited July 25, 1999).]

[Dalmation90]

Bummer, dude. Looks like it's going to be an all-nighter.

Need a little more info actually...60x100x40 and 200 years old, and I think Church or Barn. Either one won't have a partition or something more or less in the middle that you could use as a defensive standpoint and say "we will stop the fire here." That big, and that much fire, and that well vented, and it's not going to be a blitz attack...it's gonna be wait until the BTUs die down to match your GPMs.

Now, if you have a wall or something you can defend, use a blitz attack to knock down the fire in the immediate area of it -- the goal is if you can save that wall, you can save the half building on the other side of it.

[jpm]

matt a little to dramatic i guess i hear you

here is the problem our first due engine a vey nice truck. (3) preconnects, (1) deck gun. 1200 gallons of aqua, 1200' of 3" supply line. useually used for driveway lays ( in the country its not uncommon to lay 800' to get close to the door) i do not think that the 3" is enough to supply this nice truck.

second due 2000 gallons (a very nice truck) pumps to first . drops pool. you could pull second 1200' foot of 3" hose to supply first engine. but man thats a lot of work. in these days of limited man power wow.

third is the monster 3000 gallons( beautiful truck)

then mutual aide (have a fire and don't invite your neighbors they will be upset) ( they also have a ladder truck)

forth is the source truck lets call it a ford (not really a ford just needs to be fixed or repaired daily) 1200' 0f 3 '' supply line.

here is where i could use your help. this 3" is getting old enough to be replaced as well as the ford.

i can't see putting a 5" ldh on the first due .wont it take the first tanker just to fill the hose? i am looking for information on the 3 1/2 and the 4" (help me out big paulie) and what other departments do to get alot of gpm.( i have stood around with a nozzle in my hand with no water while houses got crispy welcome to the real world)

as for the source i am looking for those trucks with the large reels on the back that carry about a mile of ldh no departments around me have anything like them. i am sure that could supply water for a fire as described. as well as provide my family,friends and neighbors with better fire protection.

L X W DIVIDE BY 3 = GPM X FLOORS
man thats a lot water

[Dalmation90]

Hmmm JPM...I think you'd better rummage around my website for awhile at http://pages.cthome.net/mortlake

We have very similiar setups to you. We used 3.5" hose since the late 1940s until around 1995 when it was replaced by some 4" and 3"...the 4" for supply lines, and 3" for attack lines. Nothing against the 3.5", it was just getting to be about 30 years old, and the 4" and 3" were only about 15 years old http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

Our first due ET carries 1200' 4" used for driveway lays, and our second due ET carries 1500' 5", and yes, you do count on loosing the first tanker load to filling the hose -- a gallon/foot for 5", a little less for 4"

The 3" is OK if you're looking at moderate flows (say, 500gpm@1200')...but we commonly will lay from the end of the driveway to a water source, so no sense in laying 2000' of 5" only to be hamstrung by have 3" the last thousand feet. And we also can move 750gpm+ by tankers, so there it would really put a crimp on us.

Our Engine carries 4600' of 5" on it's reel, if you catch us on a good day, we may even be pushing a mile...

On the issue of rural blitz attacks, LDH and Aerial Master Streams can kick butt in gallons per man delivered...1 man at the drafting site, 1 on the Ladder turntable, and 1 at the tip of the ladder and we can deliver 1000gpm flows with three men, two trucks, and 2500' of 5" to the water hole -- and with the reach from the tip of the aerial to hit most if not all of the fire from one place.

Next Ladder will have a remote control nozzle...so no reason we couldn't get the same evolution down to two person minimum. The time you don't have the manpower is the early stages of the attack, so be setup to start with minimum staffing. Later on, everyone's arrived and can help pickup the hose http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

Matt

[Truckie from Missouri]

Well, if I've done my math correctly, (L x W)/3 x #floors=flow, hmmmm, 60 x 100 = 6000 x 4 floors = 24000 sq ft, now / 3 = 8000GPM, now it's 50% involved, drop that to 4000GMP NFF. Damn, that's a lot of water. This one's gonna be a parking lot. Consider 25%/exposure, that's still 1000GPM just to cover EACH exposure. My department's rural Regular Alarm (some may call it a First Alarm) has 2 pumpers (1500 gpm/750 tank) a truck (75 ft, 1500 gpm/400 tank) and 2 2600 gallon tankers (500 gpm) with drop tanks and 12" dumps. Confirmation of a working fire brings 2-4 more tankers from the neighbors. We would do our best to limit the spread to any adjacent exposures (Man, I hope this one's in the middle of a field somewhere.) and keep a safe distance, because this one's coming down.


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Proud Member of IAFF Local 3133!

Stay safe.
Ken