July Fire Scenario: 2nd Due

[Dalmation90]

It's 3a.m. and the you've been using the Q siren all the way. The call was for house fire, and the 1st due engine went on scene a couple minutes ahead of your arrival reporting a working fire in a one and half story wood frame cape, fire showing from basement windows and the rest of the house being smoke charged.

Arriving, you find no police on scene yet, the Chief a minute or so still behind you, and the pump operator standing, or rather holding back, the distraught homeowner. There's a 1.75" line stretched in the front door through smoke that's banked down to a foot off the floor. You assume that line is being used to secure the stairs...

"Lieutenant!" the Pump Op shouts "We got a toddler up on the second floor. My Luft is up there with one doing a search. We have one on the line holding the stairs."

You give an update to dispatch:
"Engine 2 to dispatch, we're on scene, Engine 2 Lieutenant in command. Engine 1 is engaged in an active search & rescue attempt. Please start an ALS unit to the scene for possible assignment."

You run up the side driveway of the house, and take a quick look around back to finish your exterior survey...basement access is through a bulkhead, and it's obvious the fire is seated in the basement.

Well LT, what are next actions/assignments for your crew?

Have fun, play hard, stay safe
Matt

[FFtazUFC3]

Im not an Officer and would not begin to concider myself experienced but Ill take a stab at this. Nice scenario by the way.

ASSUMPTIONS:
1)that there are 4 Eng's. 1 TRK 1 BandAid Wagon (ambulance) on the inital alarm, as this is a standard response in my area.
2)ALS that was called is a chase car.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
At this point I would call for an Additional Ambulance and 2 addition Eng's for manpower and a Cascade Unit.

Assignments
Remaining Eng2 crew to establish water supply for Eng1. Pull 2nd line to the front door serve as a Stand by Crew for Eng 1.

Trk1 Crew: to secure utilities and begin ventilation.

Eng3 crew: report to Side 4 pull 3rd line enter the basement and attack the fire.

Eng4 crew: Establish water supply for Eng3 pull 4th line to cellar door as Standby crew for Eng3.


Eng5:Report to Side 1 on arrival Eng2 crew is to replace Eng1 crew interior w/2ndary search/hold stairwell. Eng5 Crew replaces Eng 2 crew on Standby.

Eng6: Report to side 4 on arrival then Eng4 Crew to Replace Eng3 Crew interior on main fire attack. While Eng6 then replaces Eng4 on Standby.

STRATEGY
Once the rescue has been made the now ALS Ambulance may treat and trasport. And the Additional ambulance Can standby for any FF injuries. Cascade Unit can refill bottles as necessary. After primary/2ndary search the line holding the stairs could be advanced into the basement to assist w/knock down or final extinguishment. Crews continue to rotate in order of their arrival until fire is out and overhaul is complete. Additional manpower for overhaul may be necessary depending on size/duration of fire. The decision can be made at that time.

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OK what did I miss or what would you do different???

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FF/EMT-B Paul Cullen
Frederick MD.

http://ufc3.wworks.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/md/resqu/index.html

[BVFD]

I'm not going to go into this too deep, as the Chief is enroute, and will assume command on his arrival. My initial action is for my Pump Operator to set up a supply to Engine 1. Send 1 man into structure to keep 2 men on the line holding the stairs. My last man and myself pull a 1.75" or, more preferably if available, a 2" attack line, and go to basement to try to confine the fire to the area involved.

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Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them

[mfgentili]

In my area we have much balloon frame construction so any basement fire immediately dictates sending a crew to the attic to check for extension regardless of number of stories. The rest of the duties for our 2nd due engine is to establish water supply and assist in hose advancement.

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mfg
www.ci.new-bedford.ma.us/PSAFETY/FIRE/firemain.htm (http://www.ci.new-bedford.ma.us/PSAFETY/FIRE/firemain.htm)

[e33]

First of all, at 3am if the driver is using the Q siren im going to smack him...there will be none of that! http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/frown.gif.

But anyway, if there was an indication of fire, 1st due should have layed in if there was a hydrant, or layed up the driveway. E-2 will Charge the line if it hasnt been done yet. E-2 crew could do a number of things, its hard to say. If the smoke is banked down that far and there is water flowing, I'd be concerned with venting. Assisting with a search may also be a consideration, but if there is a search team operating there needs to be some support functions preformed. Determining extent of fire spread or possible origin would be a concern to me as well. This may make or break it. If the fire hasnt extended up into first floor, we are in good shape, but if its new style truss floor or those wood I beams, we could have a problem, so i may have E-2 start setting up for a fire attack from the interior stairs down into the basement. To aid this, opening the bulkhead doors, and any windows and get my lines in position. Hoping a truck co is coming to handle vent and extension checks. Here it is hit or miss as far as what is coming, as there are no box alarms or response protocals really. If this fire is hit fast, it may not be a big deal. It would just require careful timing of tactics. Also, as long as the smoke isnt pumping out, oily and black or really hot, i wont be as worried, if it is..its time to open up to reduce flashover risks.

For this single family dwelling, I would call the following units.

Hydranted...3 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue, FAST unit, BLS/ALS unit, and whatever else the troops bring.

Non-Hydranted...add at least 3 tankers and an additional engine for water supply.

Balloon frame, add an additional engine and truck

[This message has been edited by e33 (edited July 02, 1999).]

[LtKup4]

I will use our standard first alarm response, 4 engines (3 men), 1 ladder(3 men), 1 heavy rescue (4 men), 1 ALS ambulance and 2 chief officers. Being the second truck in, my initial job is water supply and we would have laid in a 5" supply. My engineer will help first in engineer with water supply. Rescue is next, and in this case, will be best accomplished with agressive ventilation and attack of the basement fire from the stairs. Open up the basement and push fire back down stairs. The truck company should immediately begin ventilation operations to release the heavy smoke. The rescue crew will use their thermal imager to assist in the search. The last in engine company will set up RIT operations near the command post. As is always the case, these are generalizations. The construction of the house (we have no balloon construction, but plenty of those new 'silent floor' wood I beam systems), the intensity of the fire and its burn time, etc will determine your method of attack.

[Dalmation90]

I kinda like this scenario, and we got a lot of good replys...many variations, but all sound tactics.

Here's my game plan, and I'm making an assumption a third company is almost there to help with venting & search.

Pump op takes care of getting water supply set up for 1st in engine. In our area, that would be dumping a load of water into his tank, then setting up for a tanker shuttle or laid line evolution.

Sr. Firefighter is sent around back with a set of irons. His job is open up the bulkhead -- relieve the smoke pressure in the basement. He can also do some quick horizontal ventilation on the first floor rear before coming back to the front. We want to try and get the smoke & heat out of this building! Taking out the sliding glass doors to the rear porch, if there are some, will help a lot in this scenario.

Other FF pulls a handline and flakes it out to the front door of the house.

While the line is being positioned, the Lt. goes pulls a second story applicator and drops it by the front door, and goes in to size up the interior attack.

If the interior stairway door to the basement can be closed, close it. Then go outside, hook up the second story applicator, and push it through the basement windows like a 95gpm sprinkler head. Hopefully the steam will knock down most of the cellar fire, and the open bulkhead gives it somewhere to vent other than the house.

If you can't close the interior door, then the Lt, the nozzle man from the first engine, and the 2 FFs from the second engine all work to advance the two handlines downstairs and knock out the fire.

I'm focusing on getting the basement fire out for one reason -- in my area, most basements are unfinished with the floor joists exposed. Coupled with all the junk stored in there, it's quite a fuel load, and at this hour of the morning probably was burning for a while before being discovered. You need to knock the fire down before the fire knocks the building down. At least with fires on other floors, sheetrock will buy you a few extra minutes before the structure itself is under attack, but in a basement fire, the structure is burning from the word go. On these fires, the key is to "Save the Cellar http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif"

Any more replies? Keep 'em coming!
Matt

[Ledbelly]

Since we don't have basements in this part of the world, I'll take yalls word for it that they exist?! http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/wink.gif I sure couldn't improve on any of the tactics and so I'd follow everyone else's lead...water supply, vent, another line. Only thing I might consider, since fire is threatening the structure, would be to commit 2 more to the search to speed that process up...realizing that it is a Catch-22...hold the fire while you search or get the search over with? I believe all the problems you could have with hidden or running fires coming from the basement and accept that it may take some aggressive opening to cut the fire off.

[T.D / 1122]

Well said "Ledbelly" I for one am gonna have to second that motion!...Basement??.. what's that??

[T.D / 1122]

Well said "Ledbelly" I for one am gonna have to second that motion!...maybe I missed it, what about setting up rehad?? Let's not leave those blinders on too long!! Basement??.. what's that??

[firefighter4u]

first of all, what the heck is a Q siren? Anyway, second engine in, sends one crew with positive pressure fans and the other crew with another line to put out the fire. Simple as that.

[Dalmation90]

A Q Siren is the Federal Q...a mechanical siren that when activates:
1. Causes all the lights on the apparatus to dim from the power draw
2. Cuts through any closed car windows, air conditioning, and Metallica on the radio so other drivers hear you
3. If you wait until you're on their bumper before hitting the siren, you cause the driver of the car in front to p*ss in his pants http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/wink.gif
4. You have to remember to hit the siren brake, otherwise, you'll here the siren coasting in the background for the next 20 minutes
5. And is just the absolute coolest sound a firetruck can make

As for PPV...why didn't I think of that? Good idea, even if you keep the cellar stairs closed at the moment, use it to help clear out the smoke from the 1st floor/2nd floor which is being searched.

Where we could have a problem with PPV, the crew which is searching the building is also venting windows as they find them to improve conditions where they are...yep, it's a conflict in tactics. With moderate smoke, or just a straight fire attack PPV can be used well...but if an all out search attack, very aggressive horizontal ventilation is probably gonna make PPV non neccessary or uneffective...

Take care,
Matt

[Truckie from Missouri]

In my 11+ yrs in this sport, I've been in circumstances similar to the (tabletop) drill here. The tactics mentioned are all sound, and all follow firefighting basics. (Basics...you remember them...) I would question PPV usage...if it's a balloon house, and the fire is well seated, especially in the basement, PPV can make it worse, fast. I'd just about promise you that (in a balloon &/or basement fire) you'll make a vacant lot with PPV.

As for sirens, hey, so what! America has a fire problem. We are one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world, and over 5000 people die in fires every year! People should be disturbed!

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Be safe.

Ken