When is is the right time to become a officer

[Haligan13]

Does anyone know when is it a right time to move up? My department has officers but some of them are not going to be around soon.
I've had diffrent members tell me I should go for it and be a Lt., shouldn't do it, and should wait a while. I'm 20 now I was 18 when I got in I've trained and worked hard to be a good firefighter. Our future Chief just passed away in Feb. along with one of our Captins. I'm wanting to but I don't want to rush it. Can anyone give advice?

Need help in Texas

[BVFD]

Haligan,
Take a little time, sit back and think. Compare yourself, objectively, to the others in your dept. How do you feel about it? Are you able to handle the responsibility? Then make your decision. If you are selected, then good for you! Time to start learning more! If not, guess what? Time to start learning more! I guess all I can say is think about it really hard for a while and try to make the best choice you can for the dept.

------------------
Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them

[BVFD]

Haligan,
Take a little time, sit back and think. Compare yourself, objectively, to the others in your dept. How do you feel about it? Are you able to handle the responsibility? Then make your decision. If you are selected, then good for you! Time to start learning more! If not, guess what? Time to start learning more! I guess all I can say is think about it really hard for a while and try to make the best choice you can for the dept.

------------------
Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them

[FSRIZZIO]

Good advice from BVFD. Get ready to handle more workload/responsibility, and remember, a good leader works for his subordinates.
Frank

[Dalmation90]

Hi Haligan13.

BVFD has good advice.

You also said you're wanting to, which is good. You also have to be willing to...Willing to lead, to follow, to learn, to realize you'll make mistakes, realize sometimes you'll get fair criticism, and sometimes unfair criticism, willing to help teach people...always, always be a teacher -- maybe not standing up in front of a class, maybe just pointing things out to your crew during the course of a fire...willing to tell someone sometimes when it is right that they are full of it. Willing to get up in the middle of the night to handle the stinky calls no one else wants to, to spend extra time in meetings, preparing for meetings, and going to classes.

But perhaps most importantly, willing to smile no matter what happens, figure out what went right and what went wrong, and work to do things better in the future.

Age does not matter as much as maturity, and a willingness to do what it takes to be a good officer to yourself, your crew, and your department.

Looking at your profile, you're from River Oaks...the same that lost FFs Collins & Dean? If so, just realize the department probably is still in turmoil as an organization from it, turmoil that won't settle for many, many years. The turmoil may not be obvious, it may just be members who go home and cry behind closed doors, and wonder. And it's not bad, just natural, just something to remember if you become an officer...that event will be casting long shadows for many years to come.

More important than any bronze momuments that can be cast, is to build stronger, better organizations to honor those that have come before. And that takes good, willing, strong officers to lead the department.

When is the time right? You'll know it in your heart...you'll have your doubts, but your gut will be saying, yeah, I can do good there.

Good luck,
Matt

[Phred]

Dal / Matt,

Wow! Strong post! We should ALL read and heed what you wrote. Many thanks for your thoughts! http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

[Aff]

A person who has the ability to be part of the solution, not the problem, even if that may sometimes clash with popular opinion has the makings of a good oficer. No matter how good you are in your position, there will be always a certian bunch that won't agree or think they can do better. How you deal with these will be very important. The fact that people are encoraging you to apply is a credit to your skill. If you "HONESTLY" can accept the increase responsibility not only for yourself, but an engine company go for it. I really liked what dalmation wrote "...always be a teacher". A great teacher was/is a good student. Be Safe and good luck1

[SCFD6]

Haligan,

I have been a Lt. for the last 4 years. The one thing I have found out is you are no longer just a "firefighter".(I'm not cutting down firefighters) YOU are the one who has to have the answer or come up with one fast. If you don't your whole department looks bad.

You need to be able to deal with different personalities. Some will be supportive, others will try to find faults in every order you give. Listen to what they all have to say and then ask them what you need to do better.

Not to mention all the extra headaches (Dept training,book work,etc....)

It is a big decision to make. Take your time and think it through. Talk to your officers and see what they think of the job. It has its good points but along with them is a lot of extra work.

You are still new to the fire service so you have a lot of years ahead of you. There is a ton to learn and keep up with. So don't rush into anything someone else talks you into. If you're going to do it do it for yourself.

SCFD6

[hylo]

Haligan,
I am a 8 year full time firefighter, in Dublin Ireland, I am now at the same crossroads as you are.
I feel that first of all you must have the opperational expereience, you must have been in the big fires, worked on the big mvas, gained the knowledge that you cannot get from the books.
When you have worked long enough and hard enough to get that knowledge, you will find that you will also have gained the respect, along the way of your peers and the senior firefighters. You must have this or they will never take you serious, I have heard the comments about officers that never gained respect as firefighters, and I would rather be the type of officer, that the senior men will listen to because they now you have been around the block and not just a guy trying to get out of the dirty work as quickly as possible.Am I making sense?
In Dublin you must have 7 years front line experience before you can apply for promotion, you must have done the things that you are going to ask your firefighter buddys to do when you are an officer.
I think you should wait a little while longer, a good firefighter combines his training, with his real world experience, I do not think after two years your would have that wealth of experience.
If you do make the leap the best of luck and take a good luck at Dalmations post, it looks like the words of wisdom from a man with a wealth of experience.
Keep in touch and,stay safe,
Mark Hyland.

[Capt 2004]

Haligan,
Just a few words, if you do take the position of an officer, remember this: be honest, fair & respectful of all you peers. Do the best that you can all the time. Take the good along with the bad. Your only human and you will make mistakes. Keep this in mind and you'll do fine. Good Luck!!

[BURNSEMS]

Listen to the advise given, I on the other hand was practicly thrown into the Officer role, I had been a F/F for 14 years when the change was made and have all new challenges to deal with and the responsibility of 25 Fire Fighters is definatly not a task you can take for granted. Be patient and learn all you can about the job you do because when you wear the white hat things are seen in a different light.

------------------
Here today for a Safer Tomorrow

[RKenny BFDNY]

First off, you need to establish some goals for yourself. It seems you have already which is good. Ask this question to yourself. Where do I want to be in 5 years, and then 10 years?
If you feel prepared and mature enough to handle the added demand placed on you as an officer, then go for it. If you fail to get the position, at least you tried your hardest to fullfil your goal. Try again the next time. If you succeed, congrats, but you need to realize that this will be the beginning. When you became a firefighter, you took on the responisibility of serving not only your commmunity, but your department. In the LT. position your crew is dependent on you in times of need. For granted, the routine med call and room in contents fires pose no special considerations. Your crew is experience enough and can handle it. They require little direction from you. Then comes the 2 story residential fire with 4 occupants trapped, and low water pressure. As the incident develops, you MUST meet the demands of the situation. Prepare yourself before and after you make the rank. IF you don't get the officer position, then you haven't lost anything, you will be better prepared as a firefighter.
I'm also 20 years old, currently in summer employment at a Houston, Texas area fire dept. as an administrative emergency management intern. I know the pressure you feel. I began my ranks at the age of 13 in Barker, NY (30 miles east of Niagara Falls). Becoming a EMT and Firefighter during high school, I felt the stress of moving up the volunteer ranks at the age of 18. I set my goals and followed through, took numerous hours of training, and responed to every call I could to get experience. I was one of few that would get up at 3am to run a non emergency call. Why did I do this every night, so that I could learn more and more everyday. If you approach the position progressivly you will succeed. Just remember, experience is the key. If you read an article or training material, follow up with live training, even if it means you take the engine out back of the fire station with a few guys. For example, you may read about a new nozzle strategy. Instead of applying this training on the fire ground for the first time, go out back or to your local training grounds and "play".
Good luck, and keep your head up. Its good to see someone my age, developing into a good fire service officer. This is what our fire service needs today.

R.K.
Oklahoma State University
Fire Protection Engineering Student

[Capt. Ed]

Halligan, it seems that you may be ready for the jump. Listen and heed the advice of the others here. One of the decision making parameters you might consider is the amount of responsibility that you now carry. My situation aws somewhat similiar. I would constantly be approached by superior line officers for training topics, assistance in class prep. and operations. It seemed that the people who should know were asking the people who did know. If this is happening to you, the time might be right. As stated in earlier posts, maturity is a large factor in jumping up the ladder to mgmt. You will be looked upon as the man with the answers, and will be expected to take the lead and the heat. I everything works out for you. E-mail me if you need further advice or info.

EB

[docjwt]

Halligan, first of all congrats on having others who consider you worthy of the jump to an officer postition. However in makeing that move remember that the demands made of you will increase both mentally and time wise. I cannot tell you when is the "right" time as that depends on your personal feelings, however I can suggest some go "soul searching" to determine if YOU feel ready.

In my personal situation, I did not move to the officer ranks until I had well over 10 years of line experience in fire/EMS/rescue with over 8 different Vol fire departments. This was a personal choice that I made to have a LOT of experience and training under my belt before making the move.

Hope this helps, and good luck to you!!



------------------
James "Doc" Tarpley
Lieutenant/FF/EMT
North Tooele County FD

[Lt.Houck]

Halligan,

I know exactly where you are coming from. I joined as a junior ff at the age of 14. I worked hard as junior member to learn all that I could so that I could be the best Firefighter I could be. My dad is currently Chief of the my company and has been for 7 of the last 10 years. I look up to him and I wanted to be as good as him. So I to worked hard and trained hard to gain experience. This year is my first year as a LT. at the age of 21. The best advice I can give you as a young officer is to be confident with the decisions you make. Don't show doubt in the orders you give, your men will see right thru it. Use your older members as a library of experience. Learn from your mistakes, you will make plenty of them, and be able to laugh at yourself. If you think you are ready then go for it. Just remember that being an officer is not always easy and not always fun. Good Luck.

[AJM108]

Like you Haligan I am in the same situation
do I try to become an officer or don't I?
I'm 32 years old I have a wife and three kids. The dept. I'm with is all vol. and I have a full time job I ask myself do I have time to be an officer with all the other things I do and trying to make sure one is not sacrificed to do the other.
What is really helping me is the support my wife is giving me while I answer my question do I or don't I.
There is alot of valuable information in the replies to your question just take your time and think and then ask yourself is it time to become an officer?

------------------
AJM108

[HvyFire13]

I am in a situation similar to AJM108, 31 years old, married, work 2 jobs, own a house with alot of yard work to do, then comes the Firehouse..I am a Lieutenant / Training Officer in the volunteer company 2 blocks down from my house...luckly my wife is really supportive of the firehouse. If i'm not at work, I'm at the station or my business or working on my house.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that if you are young and you have alot of time...take the time to learn everything you can about Firefighting and being a Fire Officer.
Time is the biggest constrant on the volunteer fire service, not many people have that time now-a-days, luckly before I became a Officer I got all of my training before getting married or buying a house. But training never stops, we will always be learning so take the time to learn everythin you can.

Keep your mind open to what people say, new ideas, fears, likes or dislikes take everything in that you can. Read....alot!
find literature on firefighting topics and study them. one of our best tools in the fire service is experience, experience of the people that can before us, what worked for them and what didn't work. Never think you know more then the next guy because you wear the collar brass and shiny gold badge, be willing to listen to ALL ideas.
Most of all......always, always remember safety of your people is most important! You can replace property and possesions but you can't replace people!!!

Be safe in you Quest and God Bless!!

[benson911]

Halligan - You're 20 years old with 2 years experience. I became a Lt on my vol. dept. when I was 24 and had 4 years experience, I was an Lt for one year. I'm now full time with 6+ more years experience and now realize how little I knew and I thank God I didn't get anyone hurt. With 11 years of experience I now feel ready to assume a full time Lt job.

To be responsible for only one person's life in addition to yourself is incredible. Children will prove that to you and they aren't going in to hell with you. Think long and hard about being "ready." It's not your life you need to save, it's everyone elses. Good luck, and do the right thing.

[AJM108]

Hello Haligan13
Just wondering what choice you made and what helped you make it and was it the right one? http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

------------------
AJM108




[This message has been edited by AJM108 (edited November 18, 1999).]

[Polarbear]

Mondo kudos to dalmation.
I unfortunatly come from a dept that the Chief appoints Capt's and LT's at his pleasure. Our last Chief appointed and individual as a LT to the rescue who had only 6 months experience as a FF period!! A probationary FF to boot! His reasoning was that the gentleman worked in the health care field and that the Chief had confidence he could take care of the medical equipment! This by no means gives any inkling that he could be a good leader or could take command should there be no senior officer around! I had asked the Capt at the time to talk with the Chief in regards to me being appt to the slot. I have 10 years total experience with only (at the time) 3 years in this dept. On top of that I was an EMT. When I took the issue up with the Chief (and granted I wasnt too tactful at the time) his reply was that he wanted to nuture his men that are members from the township first (over any of us city people) and that if I didn't like it, to run for Chief! Folks, that is a p*** poor excuse for an answer...if you dont like it run for Chief. I am sorry to have heard this from an individual who is in command and on top of that a paid professional FF from the city I live in in which he is an officer too!!!
My advice to anyone looking for an officership in a department would be have some time under your belt so you can experience a multitude of different situations, ask alot of questions, take some command or officer schools, (be tactful when talking with superiors). I have been a FF for 10 years and still havent seen or done "everything" there is to do. But lately under the new admin., I have been given some responsibilities administrativly in regards to OSHA programs and paperwork that the Asst Chiefs should be doing. Hey, it's a lot of work but its experience to be used down the road. Sorry for babbling on.

[craig7404]

I joined the Harmony V.F.D. in 1977 at the age of 16 as a junior firefighter. I made all the training programs and most of the fires and went to college majoring in fire sciences. I became a captain in 1984 my first position. I bypassed being a Lt. because of my education.The question is are you ready to command the fire ground and does the other firefights have confidence in you. If the answer is yes then got for it.
Good Luck you will do fine.
Captain Craig Lambert
Harmony V.F.D

[AJM108]

Hello Haligan13,
So what did you do did you run?

------------------
AJM108
Firefighter\Emt
Ridge Fire Dept.

[Lt.Todd]

This is a tough decision for you, The roles and responsibilites are endless. I read the other post's and all them are great and accurate. I think your desire, work ethic, and heart are in the right place, but Iam concerned with the experince factor.It really takes years to gain enough experience to handle some of the roles as an officer. The book work stuff any one can learn ,but it's the fire you pull up to at 3am with limited man power, severe exposures, and some trapped that will truely test you. The one thing about experience is it can be taught, studied, or trained on. I probally run into 30 different things a month that books and sop's dont cover, thats when I can call on the past 12 years for the best answer.No matter your choice never stop learning about your job, crew and self.Its the best and worst job in the fire service.
good luck!!!
If you need help or advice just e-mail me.
Lt.Todd Edwards
AFD Co.10/B

------------------

[HIangleLT]

Well Haligan, the comments given by Dalmation are true and accurate. This is a VERY BIG step. Just as Lt.Todd said "responsibility", you will have people looking at you from all angles and you must be responsible enough to carry out obligated duties. Experience is must ( I have 14 yrs in the biz ) and like Lt.Todd has written only time can give you that. I started at a vol. dept. and ran about 3600 calls a year from one station. The average time someone would get promoted in both a vol. and career dept.was about 2 1/2 to 3 yrs.. Education is a large part as well. Take every class you can and then PASS IT ON !!!! You will find that the "buddies" you worked along side of, you are now giving orders to. Don't forget where you came from! Remember, be nice. There may very well be some conflicts from people who wanted the position or wanted there friend to get it. Always ask questions. Then apply the knowledge. Follow your chain of command. Be a positive role model. And most of all...HAVE FUN!
Good luck, whatever your decision

Lt. Rick Brown
E.C.F.R.


------------------
FLORIDA STATE SEMINOLES
'99 National Champs #1

[ffemt1034]

In my dept, the right time to become an officer is the time when you are added to the chiefs friend list. He appoints his officers and if he dont like ya he dont pick ya..qualified or not. Pretty ****ty huh? So since i dont like the chief i can bank on never being an officer for his term. I love the volunteer fire service...