SKULL SESSIONS

[smokebustr]

Can anyone post fire scenarios for each of us to solve. I enjoy a
challenge.
Here is the 1st.

You are in-charge of the 1st in engine on a high rise fire. Fire is
showing from the north side of a high rise on the 21st floor. It is
10PM, the guard greets you at the front door & says he is the only
person in the bldg. & that the alarm is sounding & it indicates what you
saw from the exterior that fire is on the 21st floor. The bldg measures
approx. 200' X 200' with about 25% of the 21st floor involved in fire.
The bldg has a fire tower on the west side, with wet standpipe with PRV
valves set at 65 PSI, but the exterior FDC connection has been
vandalized.

What would you do?
What help would you call for?
What tips would you use?
What size HL?
How many GPMs do you need?
How many GPM will you put on the fire?
What would your discharge pressures be set at?

[Dalmation90]

Hey Smokebustr...
I love skull sessions, and I've posted several under Fire Tactics here...

Hopefully someone will respond to you, but this scenario may just be a little too complex/unusual for people to post a reply to here...21 stories just is a lot bigger building than most of us ever have to deal with or train for...my town tops out at 3 stories, and a correctional center that's kinda a high-rise turned on it's side...600' from where we enter with hose to reach the furthest areas.

Play hard...stay safe...have fun!
Matt

[firefighter60]

This sounds like fun but.... you just went beyond any experiance I have when you went over three stories. I'm with a rural department and our biggest building is the local high school and we can reach the roof of that with a 45 foot ladder.

Dave

[FSRIZZIO]

Same with me, I remember the First Interstate building fire in Los Angeles several years back, I read about the tactics and strategies used. From what was printed everybody there learned alot. That fire was on the tenth and eleventh floor. I can theorize on the situation but I don't have the experience to really say much outside of some common ops but at a higher elevation. I wonder if anybody here can relate some real command experiences in this type situation?
Always open to learn, Frank

[Ledbelly]

Oh boy this is a tough one...and a good one. I've started to answer twice and quit!? (scheduled a last minute vacation http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif...)We have 2 bldgs that go to 22 floors...a new highrise response that hasn't been tried (by fire) and surely hasn't been practiced enough...so I'll give it a shot.

1st alarm gets 2 engines(3 men ea), Quint(4-5 men), BC, Rsq(2), Snorkel(1), 3 ambulances(2ea)(one ambulance brings snorkel so only has 1 man at scene). Quint takes men up to investigate/locate/check extension, then return 2 below fire and set up operation division and 1st backup team; Snorkel/ambulance crew takes lobby control; other ambulance crews join engine crews t become 2 attack teams, take hoses,etc to floor below fire; Rsq starts shagging air/supplies to 2 below; here's where we start cobbing together another backup attack team.... 2nd alarm gets 4 more engines and all the Chiefs in town. (!?) At this point, Midland doesn't have any more engines left in the city! (Mutual aid would be coming from 20 miles to cover town) The way it's supposed to go, the drivers of the 1st 2 engines lay to sprinklers and standpipe. Attack teams carry spare bottle each, lights, hi-rise packs with connections, tools and 200' of 2.5" with either 1.25" or 1.125" tips...we have numerous bldgs with the same 65psi PRV and figure this is going to get us the best water.
Here's where my lack of experience in high rise starts to tell...without the standpipe, we are up a dirty creek. We could either run the snorkel up 5-6 floors and take 3" or 5" in (and up) from there or start up from the ground...a tough haul either way and we'd probably be blowing up pumpers out on the street trying to get and keep the water up 21 floors...

At this point, that baked lettuce the rookie fed us at lunch has made me so ill I have to excuse myself and go home sick... http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

As you can see, this is probably going to start looking like the Meridian you had in Philly...and we only have 160 men in the whole department, we're looking at 42 guys minimum manning on each shift. Aside from the critical shortage of personnel, I'll be anxiously checking to see what better ideas anyone has for our setup...and how to get around that FDC.

Am I right about the gpm needed? 200x200/3 x 25% plus exposures? 3333gpm + exposures? Just now saw that...obviously, we don't need to be up there!

[Halligan84]

I can't add much in terms of high rise firefighting, but the standpipe is going to be the only way to control this thing if you don't have sprinklers. Try stretching your lines inside and removing the PRV and supplying the standpipe from the 1st and/or 2nd floor hose connections. If the building has a fire pump, is it operating? Are handline flows sufficient with just the pump operating? If the pump is not operating, can it be started? Take a look at the test header, sometimes that can be used as a supply into the system by manipulating some valves as long as a check valve doesn't exist. Nozzles have to be able to produce a good stream at 50 psi or so, I would use 2 1/2 to attack.