FD Response to bomb threats @ schools

[cml2722]

The recent events at Columbine HS prompted us to review our S.O.P. - I am curious what your depts response to bomb threats in schools are ? and how involved you get (if any) with assisting PD in this type of incident?



Thanks !!

[Christian Ulrich]

Greetings, I have two responses. The first is our volunteer department. We respond non sig-9 to a bomb threat called to a specific location, and stage at a distance from the building. We place ourselves at the services of the local PD. We do not help search for bombs. I am also a full timer on the Lexington FD, Lexington, KY. We respond sig 9 until we are close to the vicinity. We then stage up away from the building. Our response is an engine company, EC unit, and a district major. The DM calls our shots, but we are there to basically help if evacuation is done, or God forbid, a bomb does go off. We do not help search for bombs. All cordoning off of the vicinity is accomplished via police. Note of interest, in the news clips of the Littleton tragedy I saw fire trucks being used as mobile shields for the police. We have no written policy on that, but I know our administration would greatly frown on espousing that idea. However, most of us Lex ff's would do the same thing in that situation "unofficially".

[st34ff]

My department's DOGs(SOGs or whatever you call them) is a bomb theat is call in, we DO NOT RESPOND! The local PDs know this and will not call us unless there is a found bomb. And we in our coverage area have 6 schools in our first due area.

[Dalmation90]

Hi
First, the truck in Littleton was driven by a SWAT member who had been given a quick lesson in how to operate it.
Second, I guess just some random thoughts:
1) Most bomb threats are false.
2) For whatever reason, there handled normally by the police, and I am just as happy with that!
3) If you do respond, consider apparatus placement carefully! I still thinking through all the things, but fire trucks make tempting targets for secondary bombs, whether placed near a hydrant, or near the entrance to the building! Maybe thoughts to ponder is to park clear of the building and cars and use a longer hose stretch in, or when hitting a hydrant, if there's a car/thing nearby skip the closest hydrant and continue laying you LDH to the next hydrant.
4) On the other hand, you may also want to use the trucks to make a bunker for yourself...park them to surround the command post area, triage, etc and hopefully they'll take the brunt of secondary bombs if any.
Ok, I'm rambling...
Matt

[fyrescue]

Our SOP states we respond to the area, stage at least 500' away, secure the area/help to evacuate the public, and standby. We assist the law enforcement agencies with controlling the scene but do not put our personnel in harms way by performing bomb searchs. This is something you want to review with your local law enforcement before the event takes place. Everyone should know what duties each are able to perform. This makes relations a whole lot smoother. If you wait until the call comes in and then refuse to participate with the police you will look like schmucks in their eyes as well as in the press. This very situation happened last week with a nearby career department. Media was all over them stating it was a political ploy because of recent staffing cuts. Made the fire department look like the bad guys. The chief had to give an interview stating this has been the department's SOP for some time, unfortunately they forgot to tell the police.

Be Safe.

Mike

[IRESQU2]

it seems a few years ago we responded to a bomb threat at a new rec. center.
Upon arrival we (the chief) took control of the scene, and along with the police preformed a search. Although nothing was found, the chief decided to shut the center down for the day (when the caller called he stated that we would never find the bomb, and he refused to give a time of explos). The city was all for shutting down the center untill they realized that they were going to lose money...to bad chief had made his mind up and the center was shut down for the day. Later we recieved a letter from the chief of police that our assistance was no longer needed at bomb threats...so if the city gets one, we know nothing about it untill it goes BOOM!!!! fine and dandy with me,...i am a big fan of the rule of thumb anyway!

[P Bishop]

We had a bomb threat at our high school the other day followed by a bank robbery, with explosive threat, in our town a day later. The bomb threat at the high school ended up being a cluster. I am interested in adopting a SOP or SOG for our fire department to cover the bomb threat-scare incident. I have read the the other posts and they help, if you have a policy please e-mail.

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P. Bishop

[Ickymow]

It wasn't untill we had a bomb scare that covered our whole county that we came up with a SOP for our department. As a day time capt. in our Vol. department I was on the first in engine that day. I was greated by the high school principal and a member of the local police department. They told me that there was a bomb threat covering the entire county and each school would have to be searched. I responded with the following statement. "We'll be standing by in the parking lot and if some thing happens we will help, but we don't do bombs." I felt that with no training in this area and not knowing what we were even looking for we had no reason to be there except to help in the event of a explosion. I was told by the police officer that I had to help him search the building and I politly explained this was not some thing we were trained for and we would not enter the any school to search for any thing. I was later backed up by the Chief and the Deputy Chief who made it clear to local officials that our FD will not search or become involved in situations involving bomb threats. We will be avalible in the event of an explosion or dettonation but that "WE DON'T DO BOMBS".
With the loniticks out there and the use of secondary devices to pourpously hurt first responders I want nothing to do with bomb threats. Don't get me wrong! I will help any one who needs it, but I don't want to rush in to get myself blown up. To many jerks and idiots out there that want to hurt people now a days. I have to think about me and my crew and I won't do any thing to jepordize them if I don't have to.

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[FF341]

All three schools in our coverage area are within a few blocks of the station, so we don't even leave quarters unless something were to actually happen.

Ickymow is right, we are not the bomb squad. We wouldn't want the police pulling handlines and running into a fire building, and they shouldn't expect us to search for bombs.

How would you search anyway? What about devices that may be triggered by opening a door?

Leave looking for bombs to those trained and equiped to do so.

[This message has been edited by FF341 (edited May 19, 1999).]

[721]

Ickymow

Excellent call, and just the way every fire dept should handle such a request.

I was ranting a bit earlier on a different forum, and what I had to say is the same. We (firefighters) are not trained to recognize, or disarm a bomb, and we have no business searching for them.

The local news had some video of a potential bomb in a middle school in the next county. The footage showed 3 FF's without SCBA, but each with a 20lb dry chemical extinguisher going into the school. The only possible thing I can think they could do would be to become 3 victims if the bomb went off. (fortunately it was only a hoax created by a 12 year old that is probably thinking it wasn't too smart a thing to do, as he sits in juvinal detention tonight.)

Now with the trend for two bombs to be set (i.e. Atlanta) it gives one pause to going in to a scene after the bomb has gone off. But we all know if there are victims, that we will go in for rescue.

Stay low, stay safe

Miles

[gp13]

In our Dept. We are the bomb squad. We have
several EOD technicians trained by the military. Our SOP's call for a 3/2 response on all "threats". We maintain a MINIMUM of 500' except for the tech's. If a pkg. is found they x ray or retrieve via robot and render safe. We have had several bombings in the Atlanta area and we tryto place CP in a safe area. However today who knows what these people are thinking. I was told by one of our tech's who trained with some personnel from Israel, they do not write any SOP's and they change from time to time for their safety!
We could learn from this experience.

Notice how every time there is a "THREAT" at a school students always seem to be hearded toward the stadium or one commonly used area?
Tough choice on where to place the secondary HUH???

[DD]

In the late 70s we responded and assisted the PD in making bomb searches. After a couple of times doing this we decided that we don't do bombs. We respond and stage for the worst to happen. The PD can make the search, or the ATF, or the Army Demo people, or Superman. I don't care if they shut the school down for a week. We are not equipped or trained for the task. The PD is not either, but that is for them to decide.

[FRED]

My old dept. We were usually just notified by PD dispatch. So If we were dispatched to a particular area we would know about the situation.
My new Dept we are the Bomb Squad. We have EOD guys in the Fire marshals office who have the robot and (soon to have) a dog and all that good stuff.
We don't go for a few reasons.
#1 We become a target and clutter the scene.
#2 We are just what the Bomber or guy calling a hoax wants...Attention, exitement people doing things because of them and their actions. But every city is different. some with high densities and special hazzards. So what may work for us may not work for all. Thats my two cents.


[This message has been edited by FRED (edited August 19, 1999).]

[Steamer]

I was just wondering. If the FD and the PD go into the scene to "search" for a bomb, and one goes off, who's gonna drag our butts out??
Seriously, we stay out of the scene and the PD does any actual search. Should a suspicious package be located, our Arson Bureau takes charge. If it detonates, we perform traditional FD functions and conduct a joint investigation through our Arson Bureau and Police Department. By the way, we have an outstanding relationship with our PD. We couldn't ask for better cooperation, and this makes both of our jobs so much easier.

[This message has been edited by Steamer (edited September 15, 1999).]

[Sledgehammer57]

Just a few personal thoughts -
Unless you are in a building on an almost daily basis how do you know what belongs and what may be out of place - do bombs have a warning sign on them ?
If the people who are responsible for rescue get blown away - who you gonna call next ?
If you do search and don't find anything but it still goes off - what is the liability ?
Most departments have as much or more than they can handle anyway with fire,EMS,rescue, haz mat and God knows how much more. Even though we may think we are -- WE AREN"T SUPERMAN.
NO WE DON"T DO BOMB SEARCHES.
We do firefighting and rescue after the BOOM.

[NJFF]

In my town,the Fire Dept. and the Rescue Squad get dispatched to a signal 90 ( Bomb threat). Members respond to the station with a non emergency responce. An officer then calls the police to get the location and the Fire Dept and Rescue Squad standby at their buildings unless requested to the scene by the police. We dont search for bombs, thats left up to the police, other then that we will help the police with any other matter such as helping control the kids if needed. Stay Safe!

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[FF McDonald]

My two cents.....

While I was in the Marine Corps, I had opportunity to be taught much about explosives, and their characteristics.

Today terorists, whether they be high school age children, or international terrorists have a wide variety of chemical compounds at there disposal. They can even look on the Internet if they want instructions on how to make a bomb.

The bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was done with common everyday compounds. Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer, and diesel fuel. Mixed in the right ratios, and detonated they have disasterous consequences.

Some things to think about if you are dispatched to respond to a bomb threat...

1. Don't say that you aren't needed. What usually happens after a bomb explodes. Secondary fires, and rescue. THOSE are functions of the fire service.

2. Do not park the apparatus anywhere near the suspected explosion. Stage a considerable distance away. An earlier post said that they staged 500' away-- this is too close. Open the windows of the apparatus. If the bomb detonates, it will cause a shock wave, and overpressure. If the windows are closed, the overpressure will cause them to burst.

3. Do not use radio communications!!!!!! This includes Cellphones, they transmit in the 800Mhz bandwith-- (they are just expensive duplex radios that ring!!!)
Todays terrorist have some complex toys, and they might be using a remote controlled device to detonate the bomb. If you key a radio, on, near, or around the frequency being used to detonate the explosives-- you just might set them off yourselves.
If you have the press show up, make sure they turn off all of their communications gear. They have plenty of two way radios with them-- don't let them get you w/ the 1st Amendment. Ask them if they want to report that they possibly blew the building up with their equipment.

If you need to communicate, do it face-to-face, or use a messenger.

4. That's all I can think of right now!!!!! But you now have ny attention, and I will be looking for more information to post here.


Marc

[John DeLung Jr]

I have 5 schools in my area and we respond to all bomb threats with a full compliment of equipment. Pd does the search of the school we just stand by until they clear the scene.The only big change in our SOGS is that we do not stand-by in the same location for bomb threats.