ALL POSTERS READ: New Rules

[webteam]

Due to a number of complaints and concerns from forum members and the WebTeam directly related primarily to individuals posting messages without providing any of their own credentials or location, as well as several banned members returning using new aliases, we are now instituting a policy where ALL forum posters MUST provide a valid e-mail address that is marked visible to ALL members, a department name and rank must also be provided. If you do not currently have this included in your profile, please go to "profile" and change the settings accordingly.

If you have not done this by Tuesday, February 8, your USERID will be banned from posting messages until you do.

We hope this step will solve some of the problems. The next step would have to be requiring validation of all forum members by the WebTeam, a lengthy process that we feel would impinge on the number of members, but would ensure the quality of members. We will re-evaluate the situation in two weeks or earlier.

Thanks again to the vast majority of forum members for making this a great place to be.

Thanks
The Firehouse WebTeam

[Nozzle]

Thank You Web Team!!!

We as Human Beings have become accustomed to verbal communications. One of the things that the web has forced us all to do is to be able to communicate thru the written word. That is NOT easy to do!! It is very easy to be thinking ahead of the typing and the result is that what gets typed is not what was intended. This is a place to express OPINIONS not condem others for their opinion. Everyones opinions are based on the facts that they posess. Hopefully through this forum we can share facts and increase the accuracy of all of our opinions.

Thanks again Web Team

------------------

[Driver Only]

Thanks Guys...
Hopefully that will eliminate some of the people who choose to do nothing more than criticize everyone else

[This message has been edited by WebTeam (edited 02-06-99).]

[Don]

Do your new rules also include deleting topics that are not popular with your sponsors or web team? Case in point: Why automatic nozzles were invented?

Is this sight run by sponsors who censor topics?

[Water Man]

Whoa Don,
Let's not be too quick on the judgement. I do not think that WebTeam removed the thread you are talking about because they disagreed with the original information sent by Nozzle as it was suggested in one of the posts that followed. I think they removed it because there were several responses that were very simply not professional and or were simply attacking and not a valid contribution. Perhaps they could reinstate the thread without the "questionable responses" that were tacked on the end as the dialogue is obviously a subject of importance to a lot of people. I would not accuse someone of this censoring thing, unless you have reason to belief so. And by the way, since WE (Nozzle and I) are also "sponsor" advertisers on the firehouse.com forum as well for banners, I do not think that they would delete it without good reason for another companies benefit (such as elkhart which was suggested) than they would for us.

I also will add my kudos to Webteam for the new rules and requirements for more responsible posting...

Those that post in these forums with nothing more in their profile than a lot of false information are no better than those that send scorching little "Letters to the Editors" of the local paper, anonymously. The papers don't give them any credibility if they are'nt willing to sign the letter, and don't print them. Firehouse.com should not accept rantings and "opinions" of those that are not willing put their name to it as well.

With this in mind Don, Can we assume that you are going to go and change YOUR profile right now, because I note that yours still has blanks and gibberish characters in it as well.

"Waterman"

signed.
Doug McMillan
(the "other" son that knows why the automatic nozzle was invented)

[Don]

Waterman,

I can only respond that my comment on censoring was prompted by an e-mail sent to me by another poster here in this forum. He warned me that the topic and any other topics found to be unflattering would be removed. He also warned me not to say certain things about specific fire departments or I would be banished or the topic would be deleted. Since he told me this before the topic was deleted what am I suppose to believe? (By the way, I never mentioned Elkhart in any of my postings other than to say my department used the Boston tip LP nozzle)

Also, I am done with the topic of automatic nozzles. I apologize to you, as I did to your brother, if I offended you in any way. It was never my intent.

I will post all the information before Tuesday, so that I can stay on the forum.

I wish you continued success in the nozzle and appliance business.

Don

Also, if anyone cares I do not work for any fire equipment company, either manufacturing or sales.

[webteam]

Well, as the leader of the WebTeam, I will answer "Don's" charges swiftly. We do not answer to advertisers or product sponsors any anyone when it comes to content. While the site is 100% advertiser supported, we are all professionals and I directly am a journalist as well as firefighter and am strongly opposed to any advertiser having input on editorial or other content not directly related to the advertisement itself. That being said, we received comments from users on the board about the attitude of a handful of participants. There were several threads where the comments were going nowhere and it only became firefighters attacking each other for their ideas. It was unprofessional and not needed. When we removed the posts, those same individuals tried to bring our Department affiliation and other issues into it. Again, totally unwarranted. There are many other forums where these things have gotten completely out of hand with people threatening each other or attacking each other verbally. We will not allow that to happen. We reserve the right to remove any thread, topic or message that may offend others or create a disruptive attitude for the forums as a whole. These forums are designed for the 99% of emergency workers who want to share ideas and exchange information in a positive way, not for the 1% wh only choose to attack others' ideas and cause a stir. We've worked very, very hard on this project and it's a shame people don't simply enjoy it instead of attacking it. If you are concerned about how these forums are moderated or controlled, there is one simple way to solve the problem: don't participate. We hope these new rules will enhance the overall quality of the message forums.

[fire]

It is just plain censorship, all the rest is an excuse.

Automatic nozzles are gone, pump controls gets locked up as does High Flow handlines, smooth bore nozzles, friction loss, the original pump controls and quints deleted completely and who knows what else. If you don't copy to file the entire thread odds are it won't be there next time you are on. What you notice just in Tactics is 114 out of 166 total posts on the board, the most popular topics are not accessible.

If it is popular, if it is about nozzles, it gets deleted or locked up. The proof is in the pudding. You don't see AOL or other Professional forums deleting posts, threads, etc. Obviously, the readers are not intelligent enough to decide for themselves, we need big brother to do our thinking for us. We can't just delete bad words, or a poster we have to throw it all away and leave the slander against McMilian or whever else unadressed. There is more tothe world than FDNY, leather helmets and smooth bore tips!

[Don]

fire,

Amen Brother. Paint it purple, put flowers on it, spray it with perfume, censorship is still censorship. No matter what the Web Team calls it.

PLEASE LET ME PUT TO REST THE TFT AUTOMATIC NOZZLE THING. I have apologized to both of the McMillan Brothers. I intended no offense to them. I guess at this point all I can do is beg for everybodies forgiveness and move on.

Also, for anyone else who I may have offended I apologize also. Just now can we move on, PLEASE.

Don

[trk1]

Don

Did you notice the web team doesn't post a profile, department, name, etc. The censorship is highly impersonnal. Good for the goose good for the gander.

[Don]

trk1,

No, until you mentioned it I did not notice that. Big Brother hides in the shadows he won't allow me to hide in.

If I decide to continue to frequent this forum I will be in compliance on Tuesday with their rules. Will they?

This has become quite an adventure. I came here to exchange ideas and became emroiled in controversy and a censorship issue. I haven't had this much fun in a long time.

Don

[webteam]

A Final Word...after which you can discuss this issue as much as you want off the forums, but this thread will now be closed.

Everyone who enters these forums clicked the "agree" button in the membership registration area. When those rules, to any degree, are not followed, such as when people identify themselves as being from one type of department one day and another the next, we reserve the right to remove them and the post.

Here is the exact text:
"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use the Firehouse.Com Interactive Message Forums to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you."

And additionally, "we reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever"

Therefore, what you call censorship we call the rules. You are entitled to whatever your opinion is regarding this issue, but if you don't like it or don't agree with its terms, you are more than welcome to leave or if you violate any of these rules you will be removed.

If you did not agree with these conditions of this somewhat private but open message forum system, then you should not have joined them..its that simple.

As we see in all of these instances, the users continuing to speak negatively about us, other users and the forums do not have profiles, only further revealing the need to have all users identify themselves.

It is truly a shame that essentially 3-5 people are creating a disruption to our time, which is extremely sparse in running this site, and bothering others with this. In every instance that a thread has been closed, there was a complaint by another user or it was obvious that people were being attacked or harrassed without need.

I would like to personally thank all those who have e-mailed us separately and supported the site as a whole. We are truly working for the best interest, we believe, of the fire service and these forums will continue to grow and expand every day thanks to many many people posting everyday.

Frankly, we would much rather lose even 100 people because they don't agree with the general rules and like to "create a controversey" or "have fun" as one person put it than lose 1,000 because others are creating an envioronment that no one wants to participate in.

Any further discussion of this issue will be removed and its posters closed from future postings. Its not censorship, its the rules you agreed to when you joined this area.

Thanks to the 960+ people who are discussing ideas and sharing information in more than 800 unique threads. Its for those people we are truly working for.

Dave
Firehouse WebTeam Leader