Personnel Issues on Quint Apparatus

[Chops]

I'm looking for feedback on companies that have quints on how their crews are assigned. Possibly primary engine company, primary truck company, order of arrival, multi-duty, etc. How do you determine who does what and when?
Any feedback would be appriciated. We are looking at placing a quint in replacement if our current ladder truck and also might replace an engine along with it.

[ECBURT]

The assignment on seat plaques works well.

Driver: engage pump, floods, supply, aerial, assist
Officer: Imager, lock puller
#1: Nozzle
#2: Backup Irons, rabbit tool,
#3: Rescue, Imager
#4: Rescue, hook
#5: OVM
#6: Ladders/as needed
#7: Ladders/as needed
#8: Backup Rescue or 2nd line
#9: Backup Rescue or 2nd line
#10: Roof

note: auto hydrant valve no hydrant man.

[AMunday]

I would caution you against placing a single quint into a traditional system. By traditional I mean Engine, Ladder and Rescue Companies.

I work in an area that has one quint in a traditional system and all it has done is create confussion. In fact on several occassions a traditional ladder company has been called to the scene to perform the truck work that was not being done.

If you have any questions email me.

[SBrooks]

If you are going to staff with 10 people, remember that a good span of control for your officers & team leaders is about 5--You should have at least two separate teams. I can't speak for engine company assignments but here is what we do (minimum staffing is 4 four each, can respond undermanned with 3, usually have pretty good staffing, say 6 and we go with who we've got in the station when the call goes out):

Ladder truck (fires)
1. Driver - operates aerial, assists tilerman, controls utilities, throws ladders, sets up lights and fans.
2. Tillerman - makes outside rescues, throws ladders, OVM, roofwork

Interior Team:
3. Officer - directs search and interior operations until arrival of a chief officer. Carries portable radio & sometimes a small tool.
4. Ironsman - carries bar, axe, hyrdraram or rabbit tool, sometimes utility rope -- performs forcible entry, accompanies offier.
5. Hooksman - carries hook, sometimes can, sledgehammer, lifesaving rope -- accompanies officer

6.& 7. Laddermen - throws ladders until told to stop. assist driver & tillerman


Squad (fire calls)Minimum staffing is 4.

1. Driver - as truck driver, except no aerial.
2. Officer - as above
3. Ironsman - as above
4. Hooksman - as above
5-8. may form 'Squad 14 - Team 2', as directed by the senior firefigher in the rear of the squad.

Squad (Rescue calls)
1. Driver - operates lights, pumps, etc.
2. Officer - directs rescue operation
3-8. Assigned by senior man in rear, usually as follows:
3&4. Cribbing / Stabilization, second set of tools
5. Tool (Spreader)
6. Tool (Cutter)
7. Windshield Kit
8. Senior Firefigher - as needed

ECBURT - what is minimum staffing for your 10 man quint, do you wait for home response, do you allow people to respond to the scene, etc. I know each of your guys has a radio, but do they all report directly to command? Also, we looked at the scott face piece radios -- thought they looked a little flimsy for the price. Is this what ya'll use, & if not, what? How well have they held up?

[SBrooks]

Woops #1

[This message has been edited by SBrooks (edited 01-25-99).]

[SBrooks]

Woops #2

[This message has been edited by SBrooks (edited 01-25-99).]

[ECBURT]

<what is minimum staffing for your 10 man quint,>

8, but it has never gone on a structure response witout 10 or 11.

<do you wait for home response, do you allow people to respond to the scene,>

Yes to both but not part of the minimum, the Transponding PASS accounts for all.

<I know each of your guys has a radio, but do they all report directly to command? >

Company officer

<Also, we looked at the scott face piece radios -- thought they looked a little flimsy for the price. Is this what ya'll use, & if not, what? How well have they held up?>

Motorolla with David Clark headsets and Scotts linked to motorolla's with Talk arounds. Too soon for a Scott verdict. The combo ends the need to yell more hose. Perfect accountabiliy.

[squad1]

Your quint holds 11 personnel? What type of department, where...your department seems to have a considerable amount of money and staffing for all these innovative things...

[Don]

Chops,

I agree with AMunday. Thrusting a quint into a traditional engine/truck situation without much advance planning is a nightmare. I am on a career department that replaced an engine and truck with a quint. The hose bed arrangement is terrible, it is horrible to lay supply lines with. It is too big to manuever safely on the side streets in residential neighborhoods.

In reality, if you are honest with your self the only reason to buy a quint is to only have one vehicle instead of 2. What about staffing? My career department lost positions because of the quint. So not only did we lose the versatlity of 2 rigs, we also lost people.

But, HEY! If you are a bean counter, gotta love them don't ya??

[Chops]

I thank everyone for the thoughts on my inquiry.
Our Quint, we think, will act as primarily a Truck. If the Truck is first arriving, we would use the "engine" functions, but not past that.
We are still debating the concept at this time. I, personally, would like a traditional truck since will be our only aerial device. Since where we are, upstate NY, aerials are far away sometimes and a full complement of truck equip. is needed.
Again, thanks for everyone's thoughts. It seems there are not too many good things out there. Comments are still welcome.

[Hook and Ladder]

Quints DO work, you just have to have good SOP's and people willing to implement them...aka...firefighters with an open mind and a team concept. We have 34 quints and 4 that operate as trucks at all times (110' Ladders). Our determining factor is dispatch order....then realistically...who shows up in what order due to other circumstances. Any questions?

[Hook and Ladder]

One other thing. We have 4 men per apparatus.

[Don]

Hook and Ladder,

That's great...team players, open mind, sop's. We still lost people. We ran 3 man engines and 3 man trucks. Now the quint is assigned 5, with 2 of that 5 cross staffed to an ambulance. So, many times the quint in reality has only 3 people.

If you are from St. Louis, like I think you are, you also run a heavy rescue to each call. Doesn't that add 7 additional firefighters? If we did that here, and everything was a quint staffed with 4, and we didn't lose any more people, then I could see it. But in reality, aren't we talking apples vs. oranges? You are quint concept, this is save money and cut staffing.

Take care and stay safe.

[FFE3BFD]

HEY DON,YOU'RE ABSOLUELY RIGHT. REDUCING STAFF IS NOT THE ANSWER TO EFFICIENT FIREFIGHTING,BUT HAVING ALL FF'S ON THE SAME PAGE IS. I PERSONALLY KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE "QUINT CONCEPT"(I'AM FROM A TRADITIONAL DEPT.)BUT I DO THINK A MINIMUM MANNING OF SIX PERSONAL (1 OFFICER, 5 FF'S) IS A MUST. THIS WAY YOU COULD SPLIT YOUR CREW, YOU CAN PERFORM BOTH TRUCK AND ENGINE OPERATIONS ON A FIRST DUE ASSIGNMENT. WOULD'NT THIS MAKE SENSE?

[This message has been edited by FFE3BFD (edited 02-10-99).]