January Fire Scenario: The Raised Ranch

[Dalmation90]

Beep Beep Beep
You’re responding to a reported structure fire, a house fire…dispatch clear 03:00 hours…02 January 1999…this is a fictional scenario to see what departments in different places do.

Upon arrival, you have a 1 story wood frame raised-ranch house with heavy fire from the living room area extending into the kitchen and hallway…flames dropping into the foyer at the front door where the stairs go down to the finished basement and up to the living room/hallway. The family has made it outside, and while they’re upset you’re happy to hear they have all the kids accounted for – including the ones visiting during school vacation. Nearest water supply is 1500’ away.

Ok folks…what is:
1) Your typical initial response to this?
Apparatus
Manpower

2) What are your strategies & tactics to control the fire?

3) What other concerns/issues will you have to deal with?

I will be following this with a post typical for my department…how about your department?
If this is goes over well, I’ll try to post a new scenario each month…next one will be tougher…
Matt

[Dalmation90]

1) Initial Response:
My department, two automatic mutual aid departments, all volunteers
4 Engine-Tankers, 3 Hose Tenders, 1 Mini-pumper (Hummer) 1 Ladder, 3 Medium and Heavy Rescues, 1 Ambulance
60 firefighters (a night time call…would be much smaller during a workday!)

2) Basic Strategy:
Water Supply: relatively small building…very cold night (was below zero here that night!) so will tank water rather than lay a line…with 4800 gallons due on the first round, that should be enough for extinguishment. First due Hose Tender to setup at the waterhole to refill the Engine-Tanks though.

Attack: First in unit is the mini-pumper on this side of town, so it begins an attack at the front door to knock down the fire on the ceiling and cut off extension down the hall using it’s 1.5” CAFS line. Firefighters on scene in POVs gear up, and begin to don packs from the mini-pumper as the first Engine-Tank arrives. An officer and 2 Firefighters in SCBA advance a 1.75” line up the front stairs…another officer + 2 ff in paks go around and take out the sliding patio door in the kitchen to establish horizontal ventilation. As firefighters continue to arrive, an officer + 3ff are assigned to search down the hallway, a three man crew with a second 1.75” is advanced to back up the 1st line, and the 1.5” CAFS line goes with a four man search crew to the basement level to search/check for extension. A couple of firefighters set up a PPV fan…not super effective since the patio door’s open, but it still helps clear out the smoke…

After knock down the walls and ceilings are opened up to check for extensions, and salvage covers spread on the basement level to minimize water damage. Pretty straight-forward fire…damn xmas trees! Used 14 men on the interior search/fire attack operations, plus 3 on outside vent + RIT duty…not sure if the fire went out because of the water, or you just stuffed enough Nomex into the room :-)

3) Other Considerations:
Damn cold night…call for Town Highway Department to respond with sand right away.
And get the visiting kids to a neighbor’s house with an officer to call their parents and let them know they’re OK right away before rumors reach the parents.

Not a complex fire at all…Chief allowed the first in officer (a senior Lieutenant) to remain as Officer-in-Charge, with a Deputy Chief reporting to him as Operations and a Mutual Aid Chief as Water Supply…the Chief himself kept mobile on the fireground to observe the operation, but didn’t make any changes without clearing it with the Lt. first – good experience for that Luft.

Matt
Brooklyn, Connecticut

[chuckman23]

We'd probably handle this much the same way as far as tactics. We'd be running a mutual aid Eng & Ladder and possible a tanker depending on location. First in crew at taht hour on our first out Engine would be 4 to 6 FF's plus officer and driver. 4 could be packed up from Jump seats. 1st in crew would exter the front door with an 1 3/4 hoseline while other two would proceed around to the rear with another 1 3/4. 2 FF's without masks would assist driver with setting up a water supply either catching the hydrant on the way in or preparing to hook up to the next in pice while a porta tank operation is set in place. Next in engine would have 2 FF's in Masks, their primary job would be to assit first in crew where needed, ex ladders to roof area etc. Depending on which tanker arrives (one is housed at township building)1 has 3000 Gals but only briver and officer the other has 2500 Gals and crew seating for 3 with packs plus driver and officer. That crew would more than likely be used to releive crews from 1st in Eng as their packs would be starting to get low. Plus the drivers would start a water shuttle if necessary.

Chuck

[ECBURT]

1) 2-E's, 2-T's, 2-command rigs, and two tenders. Total water carried 17,000 gallons of water and 38 people on average. 10 each on the first two.

2) First in command unit establishes command, announces condition report, and status of occupants.

2nd in command takes up rear performs electronic accountability function.

First in truck company would make a forward lay from the hydrant. Attack fire with two imager equipped 2" CAF's lines. One crew would conduct a primary search.

E-1 would lay a second supply line and perform secondary search, vent, and CAF attic with piercing nozzle guided by imager. One crew throws salvage covers

T-3 performs RIC, replaces crews, blows, additional salvage, tasks as needed

E-4 standby

Tenders stage

3) Quick knockdown, if imager read shows fire in attic exterior attack and piercing nozzle into the attic would be used.

[Craig Leu]

Assingment: 2 engines, 2 tenders, 1 Squad,1
DC of safety,1 DC of operations.
Engines are 3 personnel with 600
gallons.Tenders are 2 personnel
with 1750 or 2500 gallons.Squad
is a 2 personnel machine.
Inital: First in engine would iniate att-
ack with a 1 3/4.First in tender
would hook up and pump a 3" to
the engine.
Thoughts: At this point command might be
One of the officers off either
unit.If a chief was close he
would be in command.As the second
engine and tender arrive a game
plan will start to form.This will
be dictated by the outcome of the
inital attack.If the inital did
some good, the second engine will
more than likely be assinged vent
and utilites. If the inital had
no effect a third tender would be
called and a tender shuttle would
be utilized.The second engine or
the squad would then pull a back-
up line and assist Fire attack.
The other unit not utilized would
then preform utilities and vent.

Other stuff: If the weather was bitter a
Rehab unit (1 squad and a
Ambulance) might be utilized.
A extra engine might be called
for crew rotation.With no search
and rescue issues I would expect
this operation not to last to
terribly long....Famous last
words.

[Capez]

Bred and Butter ops:
1) Initial assignment moved to a general alarm for a confirmed structure fire, 3 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue, 1 ambulance. Mutual aid assignment of 1 engine and 1 truck, to cover during operations. About 20 people.

2) 1st due truck in driveway, Lay in, 1st due engine lay away to hydrant. 2 1.75 inch lines to front door, 1 2.5 inch line for backup. truck company to vent over seat of fire, handlines to work from front door to seat of fire, 2 people per line. 2 on backup. 3 on roof. 2 people to do salvage as conditions permit. 2 people on sector watch. replacement crews set up as needed. After the fire gets knocked withdraw 1 handline from building leave other in place move backup crew to overhaul and send initial crew to backup line or rehab depending on status. have vent crew assist with salvage. Secure residence and post fire watch when cleared, usually the PD handles that.

3) Other considerations include
1. Utility disconnect
2. Place to put the family
3. FMO & building inspector
4. Crowd Controll & traffic controll
5. Cold temps= Freezing lines and trucks
6. rehab of fire fighters

Lt. Alexis J. capezza
Canton Fire & EMS
Engine Co. 4

[This message has been edited by Capez (edited 01-21-99).]

[Driver Only]

People, People, People...!
What is the primary goal of the Fire Department?? To save lives first!!!! Out of 5 possible scenerios, only 1 person initiated a primary search immediately. Yes, ECBURT and I may disagree on some things..But we do agree on the common goal.
SERIOUSLY...
REMEMBER Just because someone says that everyone is out of the building, doesn't always mean that everyone is out.
ALWAYS initiate a primary search ASAP. You never know. Then back it up with a secondary

[RSQ6MAN]

Sounds like bread and butter opps to me also. First alarm would be 3E,1T,1R,1BC,1S.
I'll put the rescue on scene first cuz you know,were always out looking for trouble.
First is a size up and advise on water supply(might have to relay pump due to the fact we dont have tankers or tenders).Looks like a small fire without extention. Reports on scene are that all people are out and unharmed.First due E6 will come in without supply and go to fire attack the Capt will take command. T6 will be close behind and handle (1) ventilation (2) utilities.BC4 will come on scene and take command calling for red cross for shelter and PIO for news release. E2 will Join R6 on a primary search with R6 on the fire floor working away from the fire E2 will start down stairs .E5 who never beats us in will lay the supply(may just use the water on the engines depending on the results of the fire attack per the BC).The truck will most always handle salvage and overhall.As far as pulling ceilings and walls only if the lath/drywall has been breached(some depts pull them reguardless).In our department most units arrive within minutes of each other and as far as manpower E=4/5,T=4,R=2.
Here we deal with mild winters and hot summers so the weather issues are just the opposite. Thats my 2 cents,sounds like a fun im looking forward to the next one !

[This message has been edited by RSQ6MAN (edited 01-29-99).]

[Dalmation90]

Thanks everyone for your replys! I'm closing this thread, and have posted the February Fire Scenario.

Hopefully a little more challenging...

Stay Safe,
Matt

[Dalmation90]

Whoops...disregard that last one! I thought I could close a topic I started, but couldn't :-(
Oh well...it remains open!
Matt

[Craig Leu]

Driver: I really dont agree with you on this one...I've been on a lot of calls and have never had or heard of a single family dwelling fire where the occupants stated everyone was accounted for and they were not.
OBVIOUSLY if there is any doubt we would do a search.In this scenario, I see no reason to put a Search team in before hoselines.....
We May just disagree on this...

[Driver Only]

Craig,
Yep we do disagree. Not so much in homes, but there are homeless that find their way into places...Relatives that come to visit, and sometimes so many people living in a house, that the family "so shock stricken" can't remember who was in the house, or just forgot that someone was home. With the way lawsuits are going these days. I would not want to risk that. It's alot easier to sit in court and say, "yes Your Honor, we conducted a primary search, but didn't find Aun't Sally immediately, due to the conditions we were faced with"...than it is to say "We didn't even try to search because we were told that noon was inside"... Sounds like a good case for negligence to me... And for the record... I didn't say send in a search team before the hose line... I said immediately.. There is a difference. It could be as simple as the first arriving truck company starting the search, or two people from a 4 person hoseline breaking off, and conducting a quick search. Be safe...

[This message has been edited by Driver Only (edited 01-31-99).]

[Craig Leu]

Driver-
I see where your coming from on this one, But I still disagree with you. I'll take the odds on all the situations you gave and still not preform an unprotected search.
I give you this for thought...Civil Litigation in the Fire Service is fast becoming a two way street.Let us say for this scenario we did do a search, and the two Firefighters who preformed this were killed in a floor colapse.
Now the Captain is sitting in the Courtroom
looking at two Wives and there Lawyers.I don't know the outcome of this trial, But
the Captain or whoever was in Command is going to have to give A factual reason why
we look for people when we have been told there was nobody left in the structure. The Wives Lawyers are going to have the actual Numbers on this subject. Just Food for thought.

[Lt621]

1st alarm would be 2 engines, 2 tankers, 1 rescue, 1 air/light truck, 1 med unit. possibly 12-20 firefighters. first unit on scene establish command and give size up. Initial attack would be made using 2 - 1 3/4 preconnect hoselines . Even though advised all occupants are out , another search would be conducted as the fire is contained. Air/light and 1 engine company set up ventilation. If required a drop tank is set up and a water shuttle established , (even though 2 engines and 2 tankers should be more than enough water, and depending on exposures). Utilities and shelter officer to be notified during incident. Rehab established by EMS and any other available personnel

[eng4]

What's the fire service coming to, "we don't search because we could get sued and we search because we could get sued.

Who is getting sued? Any examples? What happened to FS imunity? Or is thesued thing a cop out? Comments?

[Chuck]

I think we forgot something. Single Family dwelling in the country. First on scene. PERIOD,does the scene survey, Turns off power, turns off propane, talks to family himself and reports to the IC that family is safe and secure but house has O2 inside etc etc. Dog is unaccounted for and its name is, so some FF doesn,t rush in after Molly, under a bad roof and find out who ever was calling wanted the dog, whos name was Molly

------------------
Chuck

[jpm]

chief , 1st ass chief, two captains to scene first due 2000 gal attack pumper mpo, lt, 3ff, o.v.m (outside vent man) jumps off with scba and radio pulls 3 1/2 supply line nozzle man pulls 1-3/4 to front door forsentry man grabs irons,lt with radio straitens line and orders line charged,o.v.m grabs ladder and pike poll vents area of fire and or high and downwind,forcentry man pops door and is allowed to search area in sight and sound of lt,and or teams up with captain for search
second due 2000 gal attack pumper m.p.o. lt. 3 ff nozzle man and lt. go to first due truck and pulls second attack line for backup. o.v.m. and force drops pool and goes to partner up with thier counterpart mpo hooks up 3-1/2 supply line.source pumper drops of extra personel and goes to closest sorce. mutal aide tankers 10 minutes out.ambulance to the scene sets up rehab second captain takes accoutability tags and supervises water tenders,extra persons wait for orders be it rit, roof team, relief.two chiefs sit in suv drinking coffe

[Ledbelly]

Since I'm new to the forum and I see there has been another 'late' reply....thought I'd start with an easy one. Also I am impressed with the response everyone else has, i.e. the number of trucks and personnel; our response will probably be interesting to some....
1)We would have the primary station- 1 engine w/capt, eng, ff and its' ambulance w/2 ffs- and the nearest backup station- 1 engine w/3 men; Rsq w/ 2 ffs; and Bat Chief. 1500' from water supply would be edge of town for us and would probably get Tanker 1 w/3 men. (Tnk1 has 2500g and engines have 500/750g, however Tnk replaces the other engine) First due is responsible for establishing ICS (usually passed to 2nd unit 'cause we need the manpower!) until BC arrives and initiating attack; Rsq will get the utilities and then assist attack, primary search or ventilation depending on what is needed then; 2nd engine gets water supply and contributes to attack, search, etc. (Remember IAFF has small presence here and City doesn't know what NFPA stands for and doesn't want to know) Bat Chief would assume command and could call for another engine or designate 2nd alarm giving 2 more engines and immediate hireback of 10 off-duty. 11 men is typical for (non-hi rise) structure fire and one of them is the BC.
2)I couldn't improve on any of the tactics already listed. By necessity, we are usually forced to postpone primary search until the attack/knockdown is well on its' way. We seldom do vertical venting but instead use PPV and windows/doors, also due to manpower considerations. Everyone but eng'eers pack out and go to work; get one 1.75 in the front door for cut-off and maybe pull other for next crew to use as backup; get Rsq to set up PPV at front door and bust a window on backside of fire; check/watch for extension....
3) We sometimes call for another ambulance for rehab (first one is just a taxi for ffs)Another consideration we often have is getting PD to go back to their cars and move 'em out of the way and possibly stop some traffic for us.
BY the way, haven't run into (fallen in?!) any basements down here!

[PTFD21]

Urban area response - initially an 85'Tower - w/ LT or Sgt. and an Engine w/ LT or Sgt. and on average about 15-20 paid on calls(upto 39 POC's and 5-6 officer's)
and upto 2 more engines, tanker(3000 gal), rescue, and a brush
Rural area response - initially an Engine and a Tanker. personnel the same. Confirmed working fire gets mutual aid tankers ( two to three on 2nd alarm with mutual aid depts. for station coverage.

With reported occupants out,initial fire attack with 1 3/4", after knockdown begin checking for extension.Second crew in with backup 1 3/4" and begin a primary search, by that time should have plenty on scene for secondary search group, salvage and overhaul.

ED C.
<a href="http://members.aol.com/PT10FD/info.htm">Unofficial Pittsfield Twp. F.D.</a>

[nbfd131]

1st alarm: 2 engines one truck.
After giving a 1st in report, call for an ambulance , salt/sand truck, and command truck for firefighter and citizen protection due to cold.
1st in engine pull a 1.75 inch preconnect off the engine and pull to front door. Since family is home, shouldn't need o force the door. Split crew into 2 two person team. Team one is attack. Take line in through front door and aggresively attack fire as team two begins a primary search and recon of 1st floor. Truck company should be arriving by this time. Raise lighting for scene safety and provide horizontal ventalation of the 1st floor where needed. Next, they would be assisting with salvage and overhaul.