Stressed-out Probie needs some advice...

[Michelle Latham]

I'm in need of some advice because I need to make a difficult decision. I'm a volunteer at a very nice fire department that has offered an in-house EMT-II class that is free of charge to all members. (I'm currently an EMT-I which = EMT-B in the "lower 48. EMT-II is like EMT-Intermediate.) My department is in dire need of "Lead Medics" and EMT-II's and I feel that they are kinda counting on all of us B's to fill in the gaps. And we are more then willing! I've signed up for the course and the department has made plans to pay for (or already have paid for) my attendance. I totally want to be an EMT-II and I've been waiting for ages for this class to be made available. I love firefighting and EMS and I have big dreams of being a Paramedic some day. (Becoming a Paramedic when you live in Alaska is next to impossible!)
Here's the problem:

I've lost two deputy fire chiefs LOD - both of whom where not only great friends, but mentors as well. (One in March, the other in July) In May I was badly injured and I've been busting my hump at physical therapy which is nothing short of pure agony since everything hurts like crazy. (The injuries hurt and the treatments hurt!!!) I'm glad to say that I'm healing but it sure is slow as heck and I'm about as frustrated and stressed out as a person can get. Well...I guess my problems really aren't THAT bad but I'm suffering terribly inside and outside. I'm on non-response status so I dno't even have the joy of going on calls to soothe everything. I'm having a difficult time with college since I'm still stressed out and so far I've totally screwed up my classes. My emotional pain is improving every day but I'm still hurting and this is causing me to be ... lethargic in some areas like studying and sitting in class.

The EMT-II class takes place during Christmas Break and even though I want to attend I can't help but think that I want to go home and see my mom and dad. I keep thinking, "It would feel so good to go home and spend a month with my family and have them all around me...Mom, Dad, Step-Mom, Step-Dad, little sisters...their crazy cat..." I don't have a husband or a boyfriend to turn to right now and so I keep thinking that a month of relaxing with Mom and my family would be the perfect thing to help me de-stress and get back on track.

Would it be wrong of me to ditch my fire department, ditch the EMT-II class and just be like, "Sorry - I'm heading to Massachsuetts for the next month. See ya!" ?

Well...sorry for babbling on and on about this. I'll quit typing before I post a book.

[AVFR452]

Michelle,

I think you already know the answer to your question. You need to take care of yourself in order to be able to help your dept. and the public you serve.

Take a few weeks to get yourself straight.

Your dept. will be there when you return.

Good luck,

Jim

[Medic129]

Michelle,

I agree with AVF&R452. To function at the best of your ability in the EMS field, you need to learn all you can in these classes. If you're that stressed out, you won't have the time or mental stregnth to devote to learn that you need to. Then, you aren't as effective in the field. That doesn't do anybody any good. Take some time, chill out, get some rest, remove yourself (and judging by all the posts you have on this site, this is gonna be the hardest part) from this field entirely for a little while. You don't wanna get burned out before you even start. Good luck with everything. Remember, EMS and the fire service is always about "looking out for #1.
:) :) :)

[SIGNAL99COM]

Michelle,

Jim is right, take a break and worry about taking the course once your back in action.

Lt. Chris Shields
NFPA 1001 Firefighter
New York State EMT-D
Onondaga County
Syracuse, New York

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: SIGNAL99.COM ]

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: SIGNAL99.COM ]

[Michelle Latham]

yeah...I'm on injury leave anyway. I guess my department wouldn't exactly be short-handed if I went home for a month. I just feel so guilty for saying I'd take this EMT-II course and then just up and leaving.

I see what your saying about the class and how I wouldn't be doing well in it. I'm having difficulties with my college classes and EMT stuff is always more intense...

I'm not all weird and stuff because I'm stressing out over these small things am I? I mean...it's not like I was at Ground Zero or anything. I hope I'm not some kind of wussy.

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Michelle Ann ]

[Brian Dunlap]

Michelle,

Hang in there...You will make it. I had some problems a few years back with regards to my personal life {Just plain Stupidity} and it took me having to give up the Fire Department in NJ for over a year and moving to Nevada with my parents to get my life back on track. ~ Once I did what I needed to do I returned to NJ and I'm glad to report I got married, Have an adorable 21 Month Old Son and now and excellant Job as well as belonging to a great Volunteer Fire Dept. I say this to you because I kind of know how you feel....Although I wasn't injuried Physically I was an emotional mess. But I came through it as I know you will too. Like others have said....Take care of your-self first and than worry about the department.....Good Luck ;) ;) ;)

[ChiefReason]

Michelle:
What's your hurry? You have a lifetime ahead of you and it sounds like you are trying to cram it all at once.
I've seen the "brightest flames" burn out very quickly. We had a guy that only lasted six weeks one time.
You can't be effective, if your head isn't right. Spending time with your family is a great idea. I don't have either parent left and I cherish the time that I was able to spend with them. I have no regrets, because I was able to see alot of them while they were on this Earth. They always helped me find "center" again and especially after a "bad one". Like the time I lost a 9 month old. I was an EMT and we helped this little guy fight for his life and when we got to the hospital, we all felt so good because he was alive when we got there and thought he would pull through. I read the next day that he had died. I called my mom, bawling and told her about it and she talked me through it. I didn't need a CISD team; I had Mom and Dad.
There was a time when I was a firefighter, an EMT, a village board member, working 70 hours a week at my regular job, trying to be a father and a husband. I finally had to make some hard decisions because if I wasn't taking care of myself, it would be tough to take care of others. The fire department became my focus after my family. I am pleased to say that I have been at it for 21 years now and have been chief for 15 years. And my wife and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary this year. There is a song by Cat Stevens that goes: "take your time, think alot, think of everything you've got, for you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not." I believe that he was saying that life is harder if you try to ignore your problems.
In regards to your PT; it hurts to feel good!
I have had my knees reconstructed 11 times. I am looking forward to having them replaced. You have to have good mental health in order to get the most out of your therapy. We hurt every day, but the worst thing we can do is give up. Sometimes, we have to lighten our load. Then with new energy, we can come back and start working on our goals again. Take a leave of absence. There is nothing wrong with that. It's better than quitting and with a leave, everyone will know that you are coming back; better than ever. You have to do what's best for you. That may mean giving less to others.
Once you re-prioritize, your stress will become more manageable. And things will start to make sense again.
If Arizona can win the World Series, there's hope for the rest of us.
Peace.

[BucksEng91]

Michelle -

Hey, you're young, you're enthusiastic, you're a go-getter. You have plenty of time to pursue your studies and training. I think someone else said it best - you won't be able to help anyone until and unless you help yourself first.

Take care of yourself, mentally and physically, and you can come back strong as ever, and be a real credit and asset to your department and a blessing to the people you'll help.

Take the time. You won't regret it.

Take care, and stay safe!

[trumpeter75]

From what I've read of your posts, Michelle, you're nothing if not enthusiastic about your chosen calling. Taking a couple of weeks off to be with your family will not cause you to rethink being a ff/emt. If anything, it'll make you all that more enthusiastic to get back into it once you've recuped. I remember what they taught us in t&i classes: take care of YOURSELF first. Otherwise you can't help anybody else. Your department will understand.

Take the time off and have an enjoyable holiday with you loved ones. There will be other classes, and ALWAYS more runs. Things will sort themselves out.

[CaptainGonzo]

Michelle...take the time off that you need and go home to visit your family. After all, Massachusetts in November has got to be warmer than Alaska :D (it was 58 degrees here today!)

[LadyCapn]

Michelle, You don't say how old you are but I get the impression you are fairly young, and you don't go into what happened to your friends, the circumstances of their passing. You also don't go into how you were injured. If you don't feel comfortable letting the board know why that is fine, but I wonder if maybe your feelings now have anything to do with some CIS or post traumatic stress? Many of the symptoms you are describing are very similar to those experienced with CIS or PTS. If this is indeed the case, then take the time you need, but if you need to find someone you feel comfortable with and deal with the other issues that may be rearing their ugly head right now. Don't ever be ashamed to ask for help, I'd hate to see a young promising career snuffed out because of it.

If you are just plumb worn out, which is also a possibility, the darn it girl, get some rest and relax. It will all be there when you feel yourself again.

Take care
:)

[bubblesboyd]

Michelle -

What is the first lesson one learns in emergency first response? To make sure the scene is safe BECAUSE you are no good to anyone if you are injuried yourself. I believe that also includes the person, not just the scene they are responding to.

I know you will be great at what you do. The lessons we learn and remember are the ones that helps us be the rescuers we are. It is also the dynamics that make us who we are as individuals. Please, listen to your heart and your gut - we all can give you advice...but the ultimate decision is yours to make. The fire department will still be there whatever you choose to do.

What I heard from you was you love firefighting and want to be a paramedic....a delay will not change that passion. I believe in you. I have been around firefighting ALL my life and all I am able to focus on is that you must be okay first to do your job well. Like I said - I believe in you!! There is a lot going on for you and taking care of yourself is VERY, VERY important. The rest doesn't matter if you are not in your best skin.

I send tons of hugs. I welcome an email at bubblesboyd@yahoo.com to let me know how you are and to stay in touch. We may be separated by distance but we share a common passion. I will support you in whatever you decide to do.

Keep Safe.

[mongofire_99]

Oops, looks like I might be on the other side of the fence here...

Did you commit to either?

(hint, your answer is "yes"- I've signed up for the course and the department has made plans to pay for (or already have paid for) my attendance.)

In the fire service, your word is your bond.

I understand that you are a volunteer, but you made a committment and now it is up to you to keep your word. Especially if they have already paid for it.

Skip out on this and here's how it goes next time you want to get some special training.

"Didn't she ask us to go to something and then back out after we both agreed she could go and we would pay for it?"

"Yes"

"What happened?"

"She changed her mind"

"OK, no."

But then again, you are doing this for free.

Just remember future credibility rides on todays decisions.

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]

[FyredUp]

Mongo,

While you do make a valid point...let me add this thought, if her heart and mind aren't in taking the class at this time what is the point? She will not be a good student in the class and will not effectively learn what is necessary.

Michelle Ann,

Stress is a killer, both physically and emotionally. Take the time off that you need and heal your body and your mind and your spirit. I believe that your enthusiasm has shown through many times on the forums. That leads me to believe you only want to give your best. And I think that you believe you are unable to do that now for that emt-II class.

I have been stressed and burned out myself...paying attention to yourself and doing what you need to do to be able to come back stronger than ever is the single most important thing right now.

Take care and let us know how you are,

FyredUp

[570eck]

Family, work, vol. That is the way it always been for me, grant it my family knows that sometimes I have to make sacrifices for the other two to flow smoothly. But family is always first. As for already making a commitment, you kinda got yourself in a hard place but no matter how good people can work under pressure and that is what a lot of public saftey personal do, I don't know a whole lot that learn all that well under pressure. Finaly not to sound like a pesimest or a person who worries too much there is always another class somewhere sometime but there may not always be another time to spend with your loved ones, I think that reality has set in to everyone. But despite my ramblings and the others you are the one who has to live with whatever you decide.

[Michelle Latham]

You all make so much sense and I feel a lot less "stupid" and "wussy" then I did when I first posted all of this. That's why I made the post - I figured you guys would be the most helpful since you are all emergency workers too!

I'm not burned out from EMS or firefighting - I'm burned out from friends dying and me being seriously injured. I love going on calls! I love being in that ambulance helping people or hopping in my bunkers and going to help people. I love it so much!!!!!Maybe the fact that I'm stuck on non-response status is a major part of my frustration. Sorry if I sound like I'm all whining and stuff. I'm just trying to be blunt so folks know why I'm stressed out. LadyCpn if this helps you (and anyone else curious to know why I'm stressed) One of my friends died when the engine flipped on an icey road. His head was crushed and the cab of the engine was coated in his blood. Those two facts still bother me. Right now I don't drive rigs because I am mad at them. I know that must sound soooo dorky but ... Fire engines aren't supposed to kill us, you know? I mean, they take us to emergencies so we can save people - not get our heads crushed on the way to the scene. I lost some of my trust in "fire trucks" for now so I'm taking a "leave" from driving them until I finish healing inside. I am healing too! Slowly but surely. I made a pact with "my" rigs - that once I feel better about them, I'll become the best driver I can possibly be.

My other friend was talking to me on the phone and he said "I have to go! - I'll call you when I get back." but he never came back. He just keeled over and died. They were both deputy Chiefs and dear friends and having two fire chiefs died rocked my confidence for a while. I always thought that Chiefs didn't die because they knew everything and they were the guys in the white helmets that kept their firefighters from dying - and they didn't go and die on us! All of us firefighters were not supposed to be burrying our Deputy Chief. That was just toooooo freaky.

In between these two deaths I got into a bad accident during firefighter training and have been recovering from incredibly painful injuries via PT which, in my opinion, means Pain and Torture, not Physical Therapy. :D Give up? Heck no! "Quit" is not in my vocabulary. Even though I hate PT and loathe that long walk to the PT office in the mornings I set my mind to getting better and getting back on duty. Even though I miss my friends and I'm very sad I have no itentions of quitting or giving up on life. NO WAY! It's still very hard though and incredibly frustrating. Grrrrr! Living in constant physical pain gets taxing on the nerves after a while! That's another huge reason I'm stressed out. I can heal from my friends being dead more and more each day but these blasted injuries are right in my face 24/7. Please don't think I'm whining...I'm kind of explaining what's going on and venting all at the same time and it feels very nice to let this all out.
If I go home, I'll have my family, my childhood friends, my church group and my Priest - I can hang out with them, laugh with them, and if I'm needing to talk I can talk about what's bothering me without worring about them thinking, "Oh Michelle is nuts. She shouldn't be on the department anymore." I don't know why but I'm paranoid about my Chiefs thinking that - even though my Chiefs have been nothing but wonderful and supportive through all of this.
Yeah, you guys are right. I need to go home, relax, heal, and get myself "centered" again so that I can bounce back and be my usual happy enthusiastic self both in the fire service and in college! I'll talk to my really cool deputy Chief and explain what's up. (he's a very good listener and he always has good advice and we all trust him a lot because he's so down-to-earth. Whenever he's on duty I'm tagging along behind him asking a million questions and he's always ready and willing to answer them! The fact that he hasn't choked me by now because of all my bumbling probie screw-ups and endless probie questions is a mystery haha!)

Mongofire, if the department is going to lose out on a lot of $ I'll offer to pay for the course if it's non-refundable. Maybe that will make amends. I know I made a commitment but if I'm unable to concentrate in class at college I don't think I'll be worth a bean in EMT-II class! There is a chance that I'll be able to go home for a month and still make the EMT-II class due to me withdrawing from my college class for medical reasons. I'll be praying about that...

I'll fly home to WARM Massachusetts (while growing up in Mass I never said it was WARM in the winter!) and bask in some "real" sunshine and enjoy the fall leaves and stuff myself to the gills with both of my Moms' home cooking!
Thanks once again for helping this confused probie out. I never expected all of this bad stuff to happen and I hope I haven't made the impressing that I'm some drama-queen whine baby. I'm usually very very VERY cheerful and happy and full of laughter! (I've even been all of this during these hard times too - I just have "bad days" now and then.)
By the way - I'm 26 years old. The reason I don't quit or give up easily is because I know life can be REALLY bad and that it can get REALLY REALLY good again after time passes. I'm a Gulf War vet and a US Navy vet and I learned a lot about life and the realities of life while in the service. Now, no matter what, I believe that life is worth living and no matter what happens I know the bad times WILL get better if I apply myself to making them get better. I just get confused and frustrated and I turn to all of you and my firefighters here in AK to help me sort things out!
THANKS!!! I feel so much better!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Michelle Ann ]

[KyraE]

Michelle-
I'm with everyone: go home! Get yourself rested up and come back ready to go. If you stay and regret it, you might project those bad feelings onto EMS and firefighting and burn out before you're old enough to drink! I'm in a miniature version of your problem right now in that the UCLA EMS requires you to work for them year round, regardless of whether or not school is in. That takes me away from my family a lot more than I'd like. However, I think you'll find that your supervisors will be suprirsingly understanding about the situation. Everyone needs a little love from mom and dad every once in awhile to keep going, and your superiors are going to want you at your best. Good luck! And have a great holiday no matter where you are!

Ps. Where do you go to school?

[Michelle Latham]

Old enough to drink? hehehe I'm 26...

I go to the University of Alaska where I major in geology. I love rocks! :)

[TruroFAO]

Hi Michelle-

I think if you perhaps exaplined the situation to the department's heirarchy (who I'm sure are also reeling from losing two chief officers), they'd be more than understanding about granting the time off and allowing you to take the time off...

And another suggestion...It was mentioned before to take some time off. I'd say do that, totally. Leave the pager, uniform and everything else at the station. Turn the radio off. Do something else; try hobbies...Rocks, the ballet (it's just about Nutcracker time), photography....

I remember my senior year at Ohio State- that December was the fire in Worcester. I had an awful time of it cause a member of our department had also passed while off duty. I talked about it with people at my station, and some friends at OSU, but in the end I needed to take time completly away from the FD to get it together. Maybe the time in Mass might do good....But whatever you do, take care...We 20-somethings are the future of the service...Make sure you don't push so hard you burn out....


Take care.... ;)

[Michelle Latham]

I've been keeping nice and busy! It's not that I'm sitting at home on the couch brooding over my hurts. I'm staying very active and very happy and healthy but I'm suffering nonetheless. This kind of stuff happens.
Lucky for me my Fairbanks fire dept wasn't the dept that lost our deputy Chief. The other deputy Chief was in Maryland on another dept. Therefore I'm not surrounded by sad suffering firefighters. My firefighters in Delta are sad and so full of pain. I can see it in their poor sad eyes. I avoid Delta right now because I can't deal with it just yet. I only go there every few months.

[ceno2749]

Michelle-
I am with everybody else- go home to visit your family- take some time off from the fire department. I took some time off from my department this summer to relax and destress. I am also 26 years old, been in the department since I was 14. I decided that I was not going to let the stress get to me and burn me out totally. So that's why I took a vacation from the department. I am now slowly starting to get back into it. I realize that your circumstances are alot different than mine, but stress is stress. It can be a killer if you don't stop it in time. It might not get ya now, but eventually it will. Like was said, you are your #1 priority. So go home & have fun! :)

-Chris

[bjhfd]

Michelle,

I agree with everyone else, go home and take a break. A little R and R is great for stress reduction, especially if you have people there with whom you can talk with about the stress. I have found times myself when the stress gets too much and you just need to walk away and take a break in order to remain sane. It makes it so much better when you come back to the action. I have had friends who just would not take a break, and then they ended up getting so burnt out that they finally quit and have never come back. We lost a lot of good guys that way. You don't want that to happen to you.
As for the class your department is sponsoring you for, I am sure they will understand about what is going on. Maybe they can even find someone to fill your spot. If you are not fully into taking the class, it means you will not get as much out of it as you should, and that can be detrimental to the department. Also, if your stress levels maintain high, you could end up like my friends, and then what good would that do the department if you ended up leaving.
So I know I sound like everyone else, but I just wanted to say take a break, and come back with a bang! ;)

Best of luck

ps the weather in New England has been awesome over the past few weeks.

[hctrouble25]

Michelle:

In order to do your best job you need to have a straight mind and be physically able to do the job. Right now you are neither of those things. You are possibly a danger to yourself and to those that work with you. I am not trying to upset you it is just that the best thing you can do is take some time off, relax, get your strength back, and then come back to the Firehouse and WOW em'. You are never going to make everyone happy, and that is something you just have to accept. Some of the guys will be jerks about you pulling out of the class, but the ones that really know you and care will understand that you did the right thing by getting yourself in shape before jumping back into anything too stressful. Believe me, I have been there. Both with losing a fellow ff and with being injured. You have to take care of you before you can take care of anyone else. :D Best of luck to you! And have a great holiday season.

[gah74]

You're a Gulf War vet? Were you in the Boy Scouts Navy Explorer Post?

Have you read your own posts on here? They are a rambling mess of word salad. Placing blame on fire engines and making a pact with your rigs....huh? Chiefs don't die, because they are all knowing?? He should have known about seat belts.

All of your posts make it sound like you have two brain cells and they are fighting with each other. You're in. You're out. You're in. You're out. You're in. You're out. Look at your posts. You're having a conversation with yourself.

Perhaps this isn't the popular opinion, but to answer one of your questions...Yes, I do think you sound like a whiny, babbling mess. :rolleyes:

[princessnbunkers]

Hey Michelle,
Add my vote to the go home and be with the folks.
It sounds like you have been in your own personal "Ground Zero" for the past few months, and you need to be 100% in the class mentally to make it work, otherwise you won't make it through. Go be with your family and take some deep breaths.
As far as your dept paying for the class already... I have never taken a class that didn't offer some sort of tuition refund.

ps
How long are ya comin' for? I'm in Little Rhodey if ya need a fellow fire-sister shoulder.... :)

[mtnfyre21]

Michelle ann
go home and take some time off.
dont even go to the fire house back home just relaxe and have some fun
2197 10-8 stay safe have fun and keep healthy
email me if you want to talk ok
;)

[hctrouble25]

Hey gah...maybe you haven't noticed but the firehouse forums have become a "kinder gentler" place since 09-11. Why don't you keep your negative comments to yourself. Didn't your mother ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say that you shouldn't say anything at all? At least Michelle is willing to ask for help with her problem..maybe that isn't what you consider macho, or firefighter like, but the rest of us on here have this emotion called compassion and a little thing called a heart. So in the future either try to be at least civil or stay the hell off the forum. Oh and if she wants to blame the firetrucks who the hell are you to tell her that is wrong?! YOU ARE NOT IN HER SHOES, so reserve your comments until you are. :eek:

[Grit76]

If someone admits they're a mess, you don't don't help by kicking them and telling them they're a mess. Is that what you do on calls GAH?

Happy Thanksgiving Michelle

[gah74]

Trouble....Actually, my mother taught me that if you don't want to hear more than one opinion, don't post on an internet forum. My father taught me that if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Common sense taught me that fire engines don't kill people. Mathematics taught me that she was either 15 or 16 years old during the Gulf War. History taught me that Michelle has been posting these long-winded "probie" questions for probably a year now...if you can actually uncover a question in any of them.

Grit...Actually, I believe that Michelle is constantly on here looking for sunshine to be blown up her rear-end. As far as calls go, it depends on the situation.

Michelle. While this is certainly not the popular answer in the days of CIS, I believe you need to either get back to making calls or quit.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: gah74 ]

[Michelle Latham]

Hey Gah I sure hope you feel really good after saying all that nice stuff. Did your buddies give you a big pat on the back? I sure hope to God you are not an officer in the fire service. Navy boy scouts huh? That's classic. I'm glad I went to war and served my country so people like you are free to express yourself.

Rambling word salad? At least I have the guts to ask questions, have fun, make jokes, and ask folks for advice when I need it. I guess you are just too good for that. I'm just awful aren't I? How dare I respond to the death of two friends and nasty injuries. I'm suuuuuch a baby! If this happened to you you'd be so macho and cool. I'm so disapointed that I'm not cool like you! I'll probably have to post another rambling word salad topic about you in order to cope.

"He should have known about seatbelts?" That's low. Really low. As a matter of fact, that's sick. People like are you are the rotten apples I don't allow to spoil the whole bunch. Oh wait...are my words a rambling fruit salad now?

To the rest of you: Thanks for always being willing to answer my questions and give me advice when I'm confused - or in this case stressed out. I dont know hardly anything at all when it comes to firefighting or EMT'ing but I'm trying to learn and you all help so much by answering my billions of Probie questions. And thanks for helping me identify burn-out and the reality that I need to go home for a month and take a break so I don't REALLY burn out.

Well I guess I'd better go out in the bay and finish that conversation with myself - and make a few more pacts with my rigs. They might be lonely!

:D

Oh and Gah - go back to school for math. I was 18 during the Gulf War. I have the medals to prove it and it's alllll over my service record. The VA doesn't call me a Gulf War vet for giggles.
I'll be praying for you Gah that you don't ever lose anyone and that you aren't ever hurt. I'll ask God to keep an eye on you, my fellow firefighter. Even though you tick me off I still love ya because you are one of my brothers. Stay safe and God bless you a thousand times each day.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Michelle Ann ]

[gah74]

Michelle...Give me a break. You stated more than once about whining and babbling. I simply agree that you are and you try to turn it on me.

Give me a break again about seat belts. I'm certainly not glad to hear that another firefighter has died because once again someone did not have a seat belt on...or at the very least a defective belt. It is extremely upsetting to see that firefighters continue to die for the same reasons...and anyone that states it is "sick"

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but how were you in the Gulf War??

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: gah74 ]

[gah74]

I apologize about my math.

I thought being 26 now and the war being 11 years ago January that it would make you 15 years old. I guess not.

[Michelle Latham]

Gah - excuse my heated words. You have the right to your opinion. Yes Chris should have been wearing his seat belt but he wasn't. That doesn't make him any less of a hero in my eyes. If one of your firefighters died from a fire engine roll-over and he wasn't wearing a seat belt I would have more compassion then to say, "He should have known about seat belts." Ok, you aren't sick - that was just my angry retort. But that still was a sucker punch.

I was in the Gulf War at age 18. It didn't end until 1994. The CNN coverage ended in 1991 and everyone thought that was it. War's over. Whenever I whip out my VA identification card I get asked if I'm a dependant. "Was your Dad in the Gulf War, dear?"

I am not proud and I am not afraid to ask all of those "stupid" questions that rookies usually have. I'm also not afraid to ask for advice when I'm confused or stressed out. I don't know everything. I want to be the best firefighter I can be and if that means I have to humble myself and ask other firefighters questions about stuff then that's what I'll do. The folks that use this forum must be really good at translating babble because they always seem to know what I'm talking about and they can locate my questions without a problem.

The past 8 months have been full of stress and just because I'm reacting to that stress doesn't mean I'm bad. All I can do is hope that you have more compassion with your patients then you have shown to me. People suffer. That's a fact of life - not an abnormality. If you are this cold in real life that leads me to wonder why you are in the fire service at all. As Chris always said to me when he was alive: "A firefighter without compassion is just in it for the glory and the honor." I sure hope that's not you.

[trumpeter75]

Michelle:

Believe me, you're on the way to recovery (if that's the best way to put it) just by posting on these forums. Just because one touch-hole out of the thousands of us who post has a different opinion--well, he's entitled to his opinion of course, but he oughtta have tact enough not to vent it here.

As for your "fruit salad" of words, that just shows that you're articulate enough to get your thoughts and feelings across a rather sterile communications medium. I ALSO am 26, and took part in 2 CISD's barely days before my 26th birthday for 2 fatal fires. That's what those sessions are FOR--to let people ramble on about their thoughts without recrimination. Has anyone thought that maybe this forum is a global CISD session in-progress? Help to get it out of your system by CONTINUE to talk to your bro's and sisters on this forum and you'll start to feel better. I promise. I don't much go for telling my colleagues what I'm thinking and feeling myself, but IT WORKS in these cases because you find out you ain't alone.

Go home, leave all your radios and gear in Alaska, and go rock-hunting or whatever geology majors do (I was a history major--all I did was read).

Stay safe.

[gah74]

Michelle....What happened in 1994 that ended the Gulf War?

[Michelle Latham]

Trumpeter you voice my thoughts exactly! I don't plan on going home just so I can whine and cry - I want to go surround myself with LOVE and HAPPINESS! And these forums are great because we can bare our souls and ask those "stupid" questions we are afraid to ask on a call - or vent our pain and ask for help dealing with the crap that comes our way in the fire service. Now if everyone would quit dying on me I could go back to being what folks term "disgustingly cheerful" alllll the time hehehe
When I go home to MA I plan on putting a photo-journal together of all the rock formations and geological stuff around where I grew up. It's all very different then Alaska1 I wanted to raid the library for geological history of the area too! I don't want to go home and brood - I want some real honest to goodness R&R !

[larrycook]

Michelle.
It really sounds like you want to handle your stress. We cannot make up your mind for you. The general consenus is for you to take time off for yourself. Now, you must listen to your inner feelings and decide for yourself on what you want to do. I think that you are really worried about what the rest of the department is going to think about you. What counts is what you think about yourself. Me, I would be on a plane and home tomorrow. You heal better physically and mentally at home. You have love in Alaska from your friends. I wonder if when you were growing up, you used to sit on your parents lap and tell them your troubles and their answer and hug would make you feel better. That is the kind of of love that you are seeking now.
Larry

[Michelle Latham]

Moms are so cool! They always have the answers to everything under the sun. Nah I wasn't ever allowed to sit on Mom's lap. She wasn't too keen on that kind of stuff. We have a really great relationship now that I'm an adult. She used to be The Higher Power, ya know? Now we are very close like best friends. We talk every Sunday and when I'm yacking with her at the firehouse the firefighters say, "What on earth do you have to talk about for three whole hours???" I say, "I was talking to my Mom!" She's such a riot! I spend 99% of the time laughing my head off whenever I talk to Mom. Step-Mom is just as great. She's a soft-spoken humble woman but incredibly wise! It'll be great to see both of my Moms and Dads!

[Michelle Latham]

Gah I have no idea how a war ends LOL! I guess the President declares the enemy to be "Beat" and he calls the war off. But that doesn't mean everything gets peaceful by any means! Someone forgot to tell the terrorists that the war was over...

[weir33]

Hey Michelle
How do you keep an idiot in suspense,.....
Accept gah,s opinions for what they are ,his opinions. Life has a way of working its self out.Do the right thing and everything else will be fine. The right thing for you is not the same as it is for any of us.Find someone you respect and trust that knows your situation and speak to them with the same honesty that you have shown here and gauge your decisions against your needs first. Also if Im not mistaken more LODD,s occur by MVA,s than anything else, CVA,s probably a close second. Your pain is measured by your loyalty and respect not to mention love. keep safe TTFN ;)

[mongofire_99]

First, let me say that in my humble opinion is the order of things should be God, family, real job or studies and then the VFD, and I agree with some of the things posted here about how she neds to take care of herself and so on...

BUT!

I strongly suspect the committment made by her to attend this class was made AFTER her accident (6 months ago) and after the deaths of her friends (8 months ago and 4 months ago) and if anything now she's a little homesick and wants out.

GAH, right on brother!!!

The longer this thread goes on the more I can only think of four things:

1. She should get out of the fire service before she has a nervous breakdown.

OR,

2. She's just looking for attention and sympathy from us for whatever reason.

OR,

3. She needs pro help more than ours.

OR,

4. She's playing some of us for fools (my personal favorite).

Personally, while I can sympathize, I think a lot of us are enabling her in our posts.

Does she need time off?

HELL YES!!!!

My opinion is she needs to get out now and for good.

WE see people like this come and go everyday and whether each of us will admit it here or not, they best thing about them is when they are no longer here. And don't go flying off the handle about it being a chick thing, it has nothing to do with that.

All I can say is it's good that the rest of us have never been in an accident and hurt and had two friends die in the LOD. God what a mess the fire service would be. How will FDNY ever recover?

"I can talk about what's bothering me without worring about them thinking, "Oh Michelle is nuts. She shouldn't be on the department anymore." No you can't...

As someone who has lost two friends in the same incident and numerous aquaintences in the WTC incident and others, I can sympathize with anyone that has lost friends LOD.

She says "I've lost two deputy fire chiefs LOD - both of whom where not only great friends, but mentors as well. (One in March, the other in July)." while Kobierowski can be found in the July LODDs killed while responding on a slick road in an apparatus he was driving, Spencer is not listed as an LODD on any list I can find, even the PG County list.

Did he die LOD Michelle?

First you say this "Maybe the fact that I'm stuck on non-response status is a major part of my frustration."

Then you say this "Those two facts still bother me. Right now I don't drive rigs because I am mad at them."

Which is it, are you non-responsive because of your accident or because your mad at an inanimate object that your friend died in?

Then she says "There is a chance that I'll be able to go home for a month and still make the EMT-II class due to me withdrawing from my college class for medical reasons."

So in EMT-II class, there won't be any physical tasks that medical reasons will limit you for?

Then again you claim to be a probie. Last time I checked, rookie training was pretty physical stuff...

What college class are you dropping, gymnastics, weightlifting, football?

And this Gulf War vet thing she claims reminds me of the clowns claiming Vietnam vet status. What she might be is a Gulf War Era vet, but she is in no way a Gulf War vet.

Hey, if my bluntess bothers any of you, too bad. If you go back and read her posts again from a different perspective than "awe that poor girl" you will see that 1+1 is not equaling 2 here.

That's probably why the Texas boys GAH and and ol' Mongo are starting to see a turd in the punch bowl...

[Michelle Latham]

Good grief! I'm not having some kind of nervous breakdown. And I'm not praying on unsuspecting firefighters for sympathy. I was confused about what I should do, that's all. Should I stay here and attend the EMT-II class or should I take some time off and just "Get away from it all" for a little while - you know, a vacation? You think I'm homesick and trying to weasle my way out of EMT-II class so I make up all sorts of lies and pretend to be stressed out? Why on earth would I do that on these Forums where EVERYONE reads the posts? I asked for advice..."What should I do guys? What will help me de-stress most?" and I got a lot of good advice that made me realize that sometimes when we are stressed out and frustrated then we should take a break and relax. Why is that so bad??? The only reason I explained what was going on in page 2 of the topic was because folks thought I was burned out by firefighting and EMS - and I wanted them to know that NO I'm not burned out from that at all!

Yeah you got it right Mongofire - I sure did sign up for that EMT-II class after all this happened. I'm so glad you took the time ot make it sound like I was trying to hide that fact. You know me! Big Bad Michelle!

Why are you trying to find some hidden dark reason for me asking for advice????? Sure I've been sad for the past couple of months but that doesn't mean I'm some kind of trash!

Come on guys - can you send some more nasty posts my way? I'm sure they make you feel really great! I have to wonder...If this thread bothers you sooooo much why do you keep reading it? No one is forcing you. If I'm so horrible and stupid and dorky and all of my two whole brain cells are fighting each other then hey here's a grand idea! When you see "Michelle Ann" at the top of a post or topic IGNORE IT. After all, you can't make sense out of what I write anyway and I'm just talking to myself and trying to milk everyone for sympathy.

Mongofire you know a heck of a lot more about everything then I do. You sure can reply to this and cut me down even more and try to make me out to be some pitty-sucking piece of trash. All I can do is stare at the screen and wonder what your problem is - and post some cheesy reply like this. I don't know what kind of freaky people you've been dealing with but not EVERYONE is bad! Excuse me Mongo for reaching out and saying "Hey guys I'm confused about something and I'd like some advice since most of you AREN'T rookies and you know way more then I do!"

Just to clear a few things up since some of you think I'm a total retard: I don't really 100% believe a Fire Engine killed Chris ok? I just feel that I have to blame something and I say "Stupid fire engine!" instead of "Stupid Chris I hate you because you didn't wear your seat belt and you got killed!" And I didn't stand in front of my rigs and say "Ok guys let's make a pact..." I made that pact with MYSELF that I would NOT give up on driving fire rigs. But since it's fire rigs that I'm afraid to drive, then I made a play on words saying I made a pact with my rigs. If everyone else that replied to this topic understood that and you two didn't, well whatever. It makes me wonder if maybe you guys like to say hurtful things to people because it makes you feel so tough and cool. Well congrats! You have suceeded in making me feel like crap. You are so big and cool in my eyes now!

Well, I'm sure I gave you enough to quote in this post. Have fun picking it apart and making me out to be bad! Meanwhile I'm going back to Massachusetts for a little while where I'll relax and ... guess what? You're going to love this Mongofire - after I spending Christmas at home I'm coming back to Alaska and taking the EMT-II class!!!! So much for being homesick and trying to find some way to "get out of going" to that class. Even though you are very angry I acctually listened to YOUR advice - after all, I asked for it. I thought about your opinions on commitment and how if I drop out of this class then my fire department may think twice about paying for any classes for me in the future. I said, gee he's right. Maybe I should find a way to take this class and still take a vacation. So my vacation has been cut short by a few weeks so I can come back in time. The other people that replied to my topic pointed out to me that I just need to take a break and that's what I'm going to do. I never expected a zillion folks to reply to this topic - I figured three or four would put their two cents in and give me some advice. Personally I think it's great that so many people are ready to share thier opinion when someone asks for it!

You see? I don't get my cake and ice cream too - I had to shave off vacation time so I could keep my commitments. Both Mongofire and the other folks that responded to this topic helped me to figure out the right thing to do. Thank you! And Mongofire, I'm sorry you think I'm a bad person.

I don't care if you don't believe I'm a Gulf War vet or not - I know what's in my service record and what the VA calls me. I'm on non-response status because of my injuries and that's why I'm frustrated - they are taking forever to heal and I wish they'd hurry up. The medical reasons involve a 3-week visit from the flu that left me so far behind in class that I'm going to withdraw and do it all over next semester so I can learn everything properly. Otherwise I'm going to slide by with a D or F and have only part of the class in my brain. What class am I dropping? Pre-Algebra. Sounds easy doesn't it? Like I should be able to teach myself? I already tried that and it's not working so I'm doing it over again so I grasp everything and don't flunk out of higher math classes later on down the road. But I guess you'll find something bad about that too. Maybe I'm homesick and I'm trying to "get out" of pre-algebra! Yeah, that's it!

Rookie training is fine - I attend and do what I can but mostly I sit on the side lines and watch. I don't mind - at least I'm able to attend and learn and ask questions!

Turd in a punch bowl??? Gee thanks. I'm still laughing about that. Yeah that's me alright! Better watch out! LOL Big Bad Michelle is out to make up stories and play everyone for sympathy!

I'm sorry you lost folks you know LOD or at the WTC. That sucks. But I don't understand why you are so mad at ME.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Michelle Ann ]

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Michelle Ann ]

[mongofire_99]

One more question - Michelle, are you a probie with the Fairbanks FD or the University of Alaska FD?

Or are they one and the same?

[Michelle Latham]

Fairbanks fire dept and University fire dept are two different departments.

[hazmat112]

Speaking from personal experience,(it almost cost me my wife and daughter) FAMILY COMES FIRST, Then the fire service.
Take care of yourself and your family first and foremost, everything will fall into place after that.
Listen to your heart, you'll do the right thing.

[mongofire_99]

So which one are you a probie for?

[Michelle Latham]

I'm a volunteer with Chena-Goldstream Fire and Rescue of Fairbanks (www.cgfr.com) and a volunteer with Delta Junction Volunteer Fire Department of Delta Junction (no web site yet. They are both rural fire departments. Chena is outside of Fairbanks up on "Chena Ridge" and Delta is 100 miles away in the boonies.

Those other two fire departments are paid departments. I don't want to be paid since I plan on being a geologist. I'll just stay vollie!

[mongofire_99]

You think I'm homesick and trying to weasle my way out of EMT-II class so I make up all sorts of lies and pretend to be stressed out?

I didn't say you weren't stressed.

Why on earth would I do that on these Forums where EVERYONE reads the posts?

I don't know and I don't care, but you wouldn't be the first one to do it.

Why are you trying to find some hidden dark reason for me asking for advice?????

I'm not. I could care less what your reasons are. I don't get into a lot of psychobable BS.

Your post does not make sense in light of all you have told us since April.

can you send some more nasty posts my way?

Yes.

When you see "Michelle Ann" at the top of a post or topic IGNORE IT.

But your posts are so entertaining.

After all, you can't make sense out of what I write anyway...

GAH and I can't make sense out of it?

I hope you wrote better for English Comp or is that the class you're going to drop?

Michelle, what you have been writing here makes absolutely no sense at all. For example, first you say you can't play firefighter because you're hurt; and then you say you won't drive because it's easier to be mad at the rig than they guy driving it. (This is one reason I think you should move on to another hobby. You're not mature enough to address the real problem and instead place the blame on an inanimate object that has absolutely no control over which way it goes down the road.)

You've been posting on how tough and physical probie school for some time now. Yet you were hurt in May and now you have to drop a college class for medical reasons but you continue the probie talk.

Which is it?

you know a heck of a lot more about everything then I do.

No I don't, I can promise you that.

I don't know what kind of freaky people you've been dealing with but not EVERYONE is bad!

And I said that everyone was bad where?

If everyone else that replied to this topic understood that and you two didn't,

I understood perfectly what you said, the rest of your post before that is what doesn't make sense. You said you can't respond because of X and then in the very same paragraph you said you won't drive because of Y.

Now, I don't feel I need to explain this to everybody, but obviously you might need it:

If you are on non-response status because you are hurt from your accident in May, why in the hell would you (being on non-response status) be talking about not driving because you are mad at the apparatus? You can't drive them anyway.

If you can't understand that from my post, maybe you should drop the EMT-II and take remedial english comprehension.

Unless of course non-response status means you can respond. If it does then you have my apology.

And if you're a probie, why are you even thinking about driving?

It makes me wonder if maybe you guys like to say hurtful things to people because it makes you feel so tough and cool.

Well, don't wonder because that ain't it, I just call 'em as I see 'em.

I ain't that cool either.

You have suceeded in making me feel like crap.

If you truly have the problems you describe, then you have no reason to feel like crap.

It's no secret that I don't think you do have these problems, except the deaths of a two friends, simply by reading your own words that make very little sense.

I said, gee he's right.

Thanks all the same, but there is no way in hell I can take credit for something that is as plain as the nose on someones face.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

ENOUGH ALREADY...

[Michelle Latham]

As a Probie I can take part in driver training. But your right! I can't drive while I'm on injury leave. Why do I talk about not wanting to drive because I'm scared of flipping a fire engine and getting killed? Because I'm scared of driving a fire truck into a ditch and getting killed. It has nothing to do with me driving rigs right now in the present.

Probie training is hard - mentally more then physically. I'm a slow learner so I have to study and practice twice as hard as most people. I love learning though so I don't give up.

I may not be involved physically in training but I'm still there at training answering questions and being challenged. Probie training is tougher on my brain then on my body (when I'm able to participate physically) and that's why I continue to ask questions here on these forums. I also spend a several days every month up at the firehouse reviewing stuff and asking questions so that everything stays fresh in my brain. I don't want to get TOO rusty by the time I heal and get back on response status. In order to do that I have to pass the physical agility test and pass firefighter skills practicals that every active firefighter is expected to be able to pass. So even though I'm not on response status I'm sill a member of my fire department, I'm still a Probie, and I'm still involved in training - even if I can't participate physically 100%. So that's why I continue to talk about being a Probie. I still AM a Probie. We seem to do things differently up here in my fire department then you guys do in your fire department.

[TruroFAO]

*looks around for lurking WebTeam* :(

[suzie]

GAH74 & Mongofire -
Hey I work with Michelle and she's not some kind of raving nut-case. She just hurts from losing two friends that she adored. I'm her partner during training and practice and so far I haven't caught her talking to any of the rigs like you guys seem to imply LOL Yeah...she's that stupid. She REALLY believes the Evil Fire Engine woke up one day and decided to kill Chris on the way to a call. Give me a break.
I have seen her medals from the Gulf War (and other military things she was involved in) hanging proudly on her wall. If you guys don't believe me well you can kiss my little Eskimo butt. Yeah, Michelle is going to run around pretending to be a Gulf War vet thinking, "Ohhh I'm so sneaky - no one will ever challenge my claim!" No one ever believes her because she so nice that folks call her "The Nun" and can't believe she was in the military let alone a war!
Michelle is very sweet and innocent. All she wanted was some advice. Is that so bad? Everyone on here can read and understand her "word salad" - why can't you? All those other people responded to her topic with praise and advice - you two are the only ones with some kind of issue. Your own posts don't make any sense LOL We read them to several people and all they could do was laugh and laugh! You tell Michelle she's contradicting herself but you are totally doing the same exact thing. "I don't get into psycobabble BS.." Well if you didn't, then why are you sitting around psyco-analizing Michelle's motives?
Michelle just writes posts so she can have people blow sunshine up her butt? What the hecks is THAT? LOL!! She asks questions or posts silly things like her "Probie List" - I don't see where she's saying, "Please blow sunshine up my butt!" What the heck were you thinking when you wrote that? You really do have serious issues LOL
Here I'll stoop to your level: You're from Texas right? Well than I know your what your problem is with Michelle - she lives in the largest state in the United States and if you cut Alaska in half Texas would become the third largest state. It's just your BIG BAD Texas egoes showing through. Yer sooooo tough trashing on a sweet person like Michelle.

Michelle I have told you: go home girl take a break.

Your sister in the fire service,
suzie :rolleyes: :p :) :D

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: suzie ]

[Grit76]

I was about to doze off until we started talking about eskimo rear ends. :D

[hctrouble25]

Mongo and Gah..I know you are both more mature and more compassionate then this...let it go. Michelle does not need to be shredded by either of you right now. And no she shouldn't QUIT the Fire Service. We have all been stressed out to the point of wanting to quit and needing a break..that doesn't mean we can't take a break and then come back to the job when we are better. Mongo you said you lost some friends in the WTC....you of all people should then realize how hard it is to go through all the pain and confusion. The difference is the whole nation is sympathizing with you right now...Michelle didn't have that when her two friends died..and how dare you go looking for the LOD lists on the two guys...like she lied about her friend dying? What is wrong with you? Michelle, the best thing you can do right now is ignore their comments. Mongo will go on FOREVER - LITERALLY - tearing apart your posts and asking you ridiculous questions..it is what he does for fun. Apparently he has found someone else who enjoys the same hobbies - Gah. Sorry guys, but just like you I am entitled to my opinion and I have been on the receiving end of your posts many times Mongo. Michelle you know what you need to do for yourself, and you know how to do it and get yourself better. I personally want to thank you for serving your country...as a military brat I know how hard the military life can be...especially for an 18 year old who is still trying to find themselves. Good luck to you. :D :D

[firefighter_632]

I can relate to your situation as I am one of those who is young(i am told at least) and trying to do everything as fast as possible and then not want to decide when to take a break. From the experiences of 20+ credit hours per quarter (for 2 yrs) and doing 240 school, hazmat tech and emt-b within one year and got adv fire and s&r as well as para in the next, i will tell you that if you feel you need a break, take one! It is better to have a break and rest then to continue as you will be more focused and ready for the task at hand. I have come to realize that the world goes on even if you stop for rest (it was a new one to me). If you wish to hear more wisdom of an idiot i am at firefighter_632@hotmail.com. Best of luck to you!

[Michelle Latham]

Grit...hahahaha...I thought you had lost your mind for a minute there! I had no clue why you were talking about eskimo rear ends until I saw Suzie's post.

hctrouble - OK hehehe :D And as for the Military life: I must be weird because I loved it! But then again I was young and not ready to settle down so I didn't mind being deployed all over the place. You know the drill about that!

I'm going to go home and relax and let allllll this pent up old yucky stress out of me. It's time for it to go! :)
Then, I'm coming back and hopping into that EMT-II class nice and refreshed and ready to take on the world!

Thanks for all the advice! :D :D :D

[SFDE12]

Michelle,
First, I would like to offer my condolences for your loses. I think most of us know that losing loved ones is never easy.

Second, reading your post I see your a little torn as what to do. I recommend the following. Stay close with family, maybe consider heading back to Mass, if they will give you the support you need. Also put school first, prepare for life as a whole. Education is important, as well as offers other options in the future, where ever it takes you. You mention wanting to go to medic school, many of my friends have made this step and it is a big one. If medic training is hard to come by in Alaska this may also make you consider where you want to go to get it. If you need some one to talk to feel free to email me, I'll be glad to help you as best I can.

Third don't get worked up over Children who have nothing better to do then mock others, your giving them what they want, Attention in any form!

Take care and best of luck.

[LadyCapn]

Glad to hear that you are following everyones advice and taking a rest. As for your committment to the EMT-B class, I concur, go to your training officer and see if either someone else from the department is interested in filling in your spot, or if you can apply the credit to the next course they put on. I'm sure this won't be too big an issue, and if it is, then maybe this department isn't the one for you.
Please remember what I said about PTS, and CISD. It is very important that if you feel things getting too overwhelming that you reach out for help. Too often we become the casualties after the initial event. Take care and enjoy yourself! :p

[mongofire_99]

suzie

I'm her partner during training and practice

Practice?

I thought she was injured, how can she practice? Her own posts say she isn't involved in the physical parts of training.

All she wanted was some advice.

And I gave her mine. Not everyone agreed with it and that's fine.

Everyone on here can read and understand her "word salad" - why can't you?

I am reading and quoting exactly what she wrote.

All those other people responded to her topic with praise and advice - you two are the only ones with some kind of issue.

I gave her advice, I didn't know I was supposed to praise her too?

My bad...

Well if you didn't, then why are you sitting around psyco-analizing Michelle's motives?

Where did I state her motives?

I simply stated my opinion on what was going on here. I could care less what her motives are.

You really do have serious issues

First thing you've said right, my serious issues are with people that are in this job that do not have the mental or physical capacity for it.

I submit that if the things that are going on in her life have her this stressed, the fire service might not be the right thing for her at this time.

Here I'll stoop to your level: You're from Texas right? Well than I know your what your problem is with Michelle - she lives in the largest state in the United States and if you cut Alaska in half Texas would become the third largest state. It's just your BIG BAD Texas egoes showing through.

Come on sister. That's the best you could do?

You could have said the steers and queers thing and done tons better, or the best thing to come out of Texas is I-35, or that the only way Texas stays in the US is because it sucks up to Oklahoma or anyone of a number of other things.

Chivalry forbids me to stooping to a "my state is better than your state because (insert favorite line here)" level...

But then again if you really want to, we can. Make another topic to post it under. I've got some good ones and some are about Alaska!

hctrouble25

let it go

Too bad you aren't willing to take your own advice. I'm just responding to those that felt the need to reponded to me, wouldn't want to be rude now would I?

you said you lost some friends in the WTC....

No, I said I lost aquaintences in the WTC. I lost two friends to LODD in the same incident (Precious Faith Temple in Fort Worth).

you of all people should then realize how hard it is to go through all the pain and confusion.

Yeah I do, but just like almost every other single person that has lost a friend in the LODD, including the nearly 12,000 members of the FDNY, we got up the next morning and went to work and kept our committments.

My best friend was shot in the head and killed in a hold up on the way to my house, just standing in line minding his own business. But just like other people that have had similar things happen, the next day we got up and went to work and kept our comittments.

It's nowhere near unique for most people to do that. For most people life goes on.

and how dare you go looking for the LOD lists on the two guys...

OK, you might dare me, but only one name shows up on LODD lists.

And before anyone gets all bent out of shape about this, I'm certain Chief Spencer was a hell of a guy. Everything I've read about him says he was and leads me to believe he's the type of guy I would have enjoyed a good meal and a conversation with, maybe even serve under. If his death was LODD, someone needs to put it on the lists, he absolutely deserves to be there. If it's not, someone needs to quit saying it was.

Grit, can you shed any light on this being as you're from PG County?

it is what he does for fun.

It's no secret that sometimes it is. I've said that on numerous occassions.

Not in this case though. I think this is sad.

Sorry guys, but just like you I am entitled to my opinion

Dang, I didn't get the memo on that...

But it's funny that you are willing to share your opinion that you are certainly entitled to to berate mine. Which, by the way, I am also entitled to, unless of course I missed that memo too.

SFDE12

Third don't get worked up over Children who have nothing better to do then mock others,

Where did the children mock her?

your giving them what they want, Attention in any form!

I could care less for the attention.

[enginecappy]

Has this really gone to FOUR PAGES? Somebody please pull the plug.

:rolleyes:

[SFDE12]

Mongofire,
By Mock I am refering to the fact that certain people posting on this board feel the need to challenge her statements and turn her problems in to a joke. Any one whose been in this business a while would know that different people deal with emotions differently, and let it be at that!

[Michelle Latham]

Thanks for all of your advice everyone! To clear the whole Chief Spencer thing up: He didn't die LODD - I made a mistake when I typed that I had lost 2 friends LOD but I didn't even realize I posted it like that. Later on I explained how my two friends died and I didn't say that Chief Spencer died LOD. I said that he just died all of a sudden. Sorry if my typing screw-up made anyone think that he had died LOD. I didn't mean to make it sound like that.

Now that I've made up my mind as to what the right decision is, I'm going to end this topic. It's just becoming a big head-butting contest between those that are offering advice and those that are offering insults. I've posted another topic thanking you all soooo much for helping me out once again! If I have any other questions I'll be sure to ask again - since you all are willing to share your knowledge!
God bless! Stay safe! If you want to reply to me please email me, pvt message me, or reply to the "Thanks for your help" topic. I'm not going to look at this one anymore.

Bye!!! :) :) :) :) :)

[KyraE]

Looks like we got our very first post-9/11 ridiculous-argument thread. Gulliani DID tell us to get back to our normal lives... :rolleyes: I feel ya Michelle, but I've always got Mongo's back. I may not always agree with everything he says, but he manages to express his opinions in a refreshing way. Not too much BS, quite intelligent, and pretty damn funny... find myself looking through the thread for his posts. Too bad he's a right-wing crazy and I'm a liberal tree-huggin delinquent :D

[gah74]

Michelle...Are you absolutely sure that you didn't receive those medals for being so dedicated to the cause that you were still fighting the war three years after it ended?

My ignorance is showing here. Was Kuwait not liberated in February 1991? ...followed immediately by the cease fire agreement? ...and if it ended in 1994, what was the outcome then? I really am curious. I figured you would know since you were there. Are you a UN arms inspector? CIA? special forces? pilot enforcing the no-fly zone?

[enginecappy]

This came directly from the National Gulf War Resource Center....Here's the link...

National Gulf War Resource Center (http://www.ngwrc.org/)

Found this on the facts page, FYI.....

According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, as of March 1, 2001

- 696,661 U.S. troops served in the Gulf War between August 2, 1990 and July 31, 1991 -- these are considered "Gulf War Conflict" veterans by the VA;

- Of the 696,628, 504,047 are separated from service and eligible for benefits through the VA

[gah74]

Phildabox...That can't be right. Michelle is a Gulf War Vet w/ medals and she didn't get there until 1994. She's got a buddy on here that saw the medals. It must be true.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: gah74 ]

[emsandfireus]

I'm finally glad this boring subject is being laid to rest. Let her handle her own problems, make believe stories that get mixed up always seem to cause comotion in the forums. Phildabox tell yardo we said Hi. :rolleyes:

[mongofire_99]

OK, last one (maybe)

.......In other news, Texas was forced by The Group Thinkers of America to annex parts of Maryland and Pennsylvania today due to the egos of a single individual from their populace questioning the statements someone from Alaska made that just don't add up. It seems that these two people still do not realize truth is relative and as such have forced the GTA's hand on the issue...

In a written response made to two Texans regarding hurting someones feelings, Suzie from Fairbanks was quoted as saying "You're from Texas right? Well than [sic] I know your what your problem is with Michelle - she lives in the largest state in the United States and if you cut Alaska in half Texas would become the third largest state. It's just your BIG BAD Texas egoes showing through." The GTA felt Suzie was right and also concluded the statements from two other non-Texans may also hurt someones feelings and that was basis enough to force Texas to annex the areas.

The Group Thinkers of America in a clandestine meeting decided that anyone that has the nerve to challenge such a sweet person, known around the firehouse as "The Nun" according to Suzie from Fairbanks, should be forced to live in Texas, one of the most free states in the nation, where individuals now have the priveledge to carry a concieled weapon and the right to work.

The new areas will be named Texland and Texylvania. The residents of Texas welcome their new citizens with open arms and celebrated by throwing a big Texas Bar-B-Q in Crawford Texas, even bigger than the one in the movie The Right Stuff, but without the feather dancer.......

Hey CaliFire, always wondered about tree-huggers. When you hug a tree and get some sap (which can be loosely described as tree blood) on you, is that considered assualt? :D

Good to see you, got your back too amigo.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]

[LadyCapn]

Mongo, if you ever decide to get out of the fire service you have a career ahead of you in humorous reporting lol. But please!!!!! Use your spell checker when you make the switch! :D
I choose to accept Michelle's word as is. Maybe right, maybe wrong, but I agree....it's time to end this thread. There is no more productive conversation to be gained. Let's let it go.
:)